Macross 7 and Macross II Within a Shared Universe

[wolframbane]

As every Macross fan knows, the series 'Super Dimension Fortress Macross' was the original Macross series produced back in 1982. It would serve to spawn several sequels, prequels, side-stories, OAVs and alternative series. The original series was set during the years 2009 to 2012.

The first sequel to be produced that encompassed the next generation of Macross characters was Macross II: Lovers Again in 1992. It occurred eighty years after the original series, set in 2089. It involved a new generation of Earth defending their world against another group of Zentraedi.

The next major sequels were Macross Plus and Macross 7, both released in 1994. These series were set in 2040 and 2045-2046 respectively. They also encompassed a new generation of Earth some three decades after the original series. Macross 7 also had characters from the original series as well (Exedor, Max, Milia, etc.) and soon became regarded as the direct sequel to Macross. Macross II soon became relegated to the status of occurring within a 'parallel universe' or being non-canon with regards to the 'core continuity' of the Macross universe.

The purpose of this thread is to discuss the possibilities of the far future of Macross II (2089) occurring within the same universe as Macross 7 (2045), only some four decades later. I understand that they do not actually so-exist within the same world, and there is some contention with some fans about those who make those assertions. This is meant as a forum for hypothetical discussions about a conjectural possibility of the future of Macross II co-existing with Macross 7. I would hope for some intelligent and informative observations and opinions on how the events of both worlds may co-exist, and plausible discussions of how the four decade gap may be filled. I hope tht this can be both an entertaining and enjoyable project for everyone.

Does anyone have any thoughts or ideas on how to hypothetically bridge the two worlds? The evolution of technology, what vehicles are descended from what earlier vehicles, who is the potential child or grandchild of who?

[wolframbane]

In M2, Sylvie Geena told Hibiki Kanzaki that her incredible piloting skills were inherited from her Meltrandi mother. Given the surname of 'Geena' and the reference to a Meltrandi mother, this could be a node to the idea that Max and Milia Jenius are her grandparents.

Imagine if you will, the possibiliy to connect it to Macross 7. Max and Milia had seven daughters, each of whom are half human/half Meltrandi. If any of these daughters had a child with a human male, the resultant child would be quarter-Meltrandi. Now the youngest daughter of Max and Milia is, of course, Mylene Flare Jenius, aspiring rock star and member of Fire Bomber. She proved herself a great pilot (definately her mother's daughter) during the Varauta War. She was born in 2031 when her mother was 37 years old.

Silvie herself was born in 2072. She would go on to become a noted ace of Fairie Squadron during the Marduk War of 2089.

Imagine this possibilty. After the events of the Varauta War, Mylene Jenius would of course still continue with her musician career, both with Fire Bomber and solo. Afte several years, she ultimately decided to withdraw from the public eye, and accepted the proposals of the young pilot with whom her mother had been trying to set her up with for all these years, Gamlin Kizaki. Mylene, ever the independant thinker, would insist on keeping her maiden name. In time, the two would have a daughter, as would tend to be the established family tradition. In the year 2072, when Gamlin and Mylene were the ages of 46 and 41, respectively, they would have a daughter whom they named Sylvie. As she grew older, young Silvie would show an aptitude for flying, as inherited from her father and maternal grandparents. In time, she would join the UN Spacy, but would insist upon using a variation of her mother's maiden name, 'Geena', rather than either parents surnames so that she will not be seen as the daughter of the heroes of the Varauta War, but as a pilot in her own right. She would prove her skills, partially as a result of her Meltrandi heritage, and become the commander of Fairie Squadron. She would also be instrumental in the events of the Marduk War in 2089.

[Duke Togo]

I don't think its possible for that much crappy anime to exist in the same space/time continuum. It would cause a cataclysm of universal proportions, ending all life as we know it.

Oh darn, I think I just crapped my pants.

[DestroidDefender]

I recently replayed Macross II and I found it very watchable especially compared to Macross 7. Sure it's derivative of SDF but it has it's good point. I think people get dazzled by the animation in Macross+ and don't look to too closely at the story.

I guess what I'm saying is I consider Macross II just as worth as Mac+, Mac7 , and Mac0.

[eugimon]

Heh??? Dazzled by the animation in Mac+ but not the story??? Mac+ has one of the tightest stories in all of the various Macross spin offs.. stays true to the themes and philosophy of SDF without coming across as ridiculous and derivative...

Mac2 couldn't decide if it was a parody of macross or a sequel... just about the only decent thing that came out of that tragedy was the music. I suppose the valk design as well, though personally I could go either way.

Now Macross 7 on the other hand, pretty much deserves all the hate directed towards it...

[Zentrandude]

Heh??? Dazzled by the animation in Mac+ but not the story??? Mac+ has one of the tightest stories in all of the various Macross spin offs.. stays true to the themes and philosophy of SDF without coming across as ridiculous and derivative...

Mac2 couldn't decide if it was a parody of macross or a sequel... just about the only decent thing that came out of that tragedy was the music. I suppose the valk design as well, though personally I could go either way.

Now Macross 7 on the other hand, pretty much deserves all the hate directed towards it...

only thing i hate about mac7 is basara, valk with faces, and zentran/meltrans look little bit like elves.

[Penguin]

Wow, Wolframbane... not a single person managed to actually discuss the topic of your post before it got hijacked into the ever-so-stimulating and not-the-least-bit-overdone topics of "I Hate Macross II" and "I Hate Macross 7". Sadly, I don't think that's a record for this board.

Your hypothetical extrapolation is one I've heard before, and I always thought it wasn't too bad from a character perspective. The only thing I thought was missing was an explanation about how technology went from VF-22s and the like to the VF-2 series. Tossing the idea around with some friends a while back, we posited an economic collapse in the Earth sphere, as a result of too rapid colonial expansion, along with continually escalating military costs to patrol and protect all those colonies, spread out all over. The end result was a scaled-back UN Spacy that had largely left the colonies to their own devices, and a shift to cheaper mecha based more closely on the old VF-1s. I don't remember everything we came up with, and of course the scenario was never a perfect fit, but it was fun to discuss.

Walking the alternate timeline route, I've dragged Macross II into the "canonical" timeline twice in my Macross roleplaying.

A few years back I was deep into Battletech, so I had the Marduk emulate the Clans in Battletech, turning them into an offshoot of the Protocultures who fled the civil wars and war with the Supervision Army, eventually establishing a separate cultural evolution in another galaxy. I'd already brought the VF-2 series of Valkyrie into the timeline as a production line aimed at colonial sales (replacing continually upgraded VF-5000s, etc.). I basically ran my players through a slightly altered Macross II storyline, replacing Earth with a long-distance colony world (established by the Megaroad-10) where Silvie and co. lived and where the returning Marduk first re-entered the home galaxy of their ancestors. It was a lot of fun twisting the plot line around, and bringing some of the "canonical" VFs into the story.

Just recently, in a different campaign, I put together a storyline to allow my 2040-era characters to experience both Macross Zero and Macross II, by creating a little time-travel story where an anti-UN terrorist goes back in time and helps the Anti-UN Army sabotage the factories producing the VF-1 engines and also to nuke the SDF-1 before it launched. The result was a prolonged UN War that lasted until the Zentraedi arrived. VF-0s and SV-51s were no match for the Zentraedi, at which point the story moves forward to the 2040 of the new timeline where a long, bitter war with the Zentraedi has resulted in an Earth much more like the Macross II Earth, while the Zentraedi loyal to Bodolzaa had developed emulators and the Marduk caste in response to the effect of Earth culture. The characters would have entered in the midst of a new offensive by the Marduk Zentraedi. Silvie Geena was Max and Milia's third daughter in this timeline, both of them having died before getting to number seven. Unfortunately, the game's been on hold for a while, so I haven't had the chance to run them through that whole scenario yet.

Luckily, none of them visit this board, so they won't read this and learn what's coming.

Edited February 17, 2005 by Penguin

[Duke Togo]

Unfortunately, the game's been on hold for a while, so I haven't had the chance to run them through that whole scenario yet.

Luckily, none of them visit this board, so they won't read this and learn what's coming.

Macross II and 7 have that affect on people. You know what they say, give me the clap once, shame on you, give me the clap twice, shame on me. Give me the clap three times, I'm never drinking with you again.

[Dangard Ace]

Hey DT,

let these guys have their discussion. At least it's different then a "Millia is the hotness", or "who's the most uber-pilot", or "Macross XXXX rulez!! All other don't understand me WAHHHH!!!!" topics.

[JB0]

Hey DT,

let these guys have their discussion. At least it's different then a "Millia is the hotness", or "who's the most uber-pilot", or "Macross XXXX rulez!! All other don't understand me WAHHHH!!!!" topics.

Hey, there can never be enough "Millia is the hotness" threads.

[Duke Togo]

[macplus]

Well, I don't think M2 and M7 have any conection appart of being Macross histories, but IMHO M2 doesn't look 80+ years ahead of SDF, maybe some 10 or 20. In any case I found M2 to be very enjoyable, not great but not bad, the animation is really nice and the story is not bad too. M7... well, you guys know that I hate this series for being all that you know it is, I would love that M7 get the treatment DYRL had, if the later is a movie witting the macross universe why not M7 a soap opera witting the macross universe?? it's lack of seriousness make's it a good candidate and it'll be fine for the M7 haters since it wont affect any future Macross projects with it's sissyness, my two cents.

[Sundown]

It's too bad that shot from M7 shows its exceptions and not its norm.

-Al

EDIT: missing "not". =P

Edited February 18, 2005 by Sundown

[JB0]

It's too bad that shot from M7 shows its exceptions and its norm.

-Al

It's too bad Gamlin got Millia's VF-1J blown up, too.

[DestroidDefender]

Excuse me for making the comparison to Mac7 and Mac+.

I enjoyed the animation and the story of MacII. I don't think the supposed tech level inconsistencies are important. I have a bigger problem with the mecha in MacO looking too advanced than I do with the VFs in MacII not looking advanced enough.

[Duke Togo]

I have a bigger problem with the mecha in MacO looking too advanced than I do with the VFs in MacII not looking advanced enough.

I completely agree.

[terry the lone wolf]

I think Mac 2 should be the "Definitive" ending to the Macross story.

[Duke Togo]

I think Mac 2 should be the "Definitive" ending to the Macross story.

[eugimon]

I think Mac 2 should be the "Definitive" ending to the Macross story.

I don't see why there would need to be a "definitive" ending to the macross story... it's not like gundam where you are dealing with a finite number of colonies and factions...

[terry the lone wolf]

I don't see why there would need to be a "definitive" ending to the macross story... it's not like gundam where you are dealing with a finite number of colonies and factions...

At the end when most of the Macross is destroyed(except for the head) to me it says "That's all folks!" Seriously, that should be the final chapter, "Sayonara Love" baby!

[Keith]

Macross II has far too many plot holes & inconsistencies to be considered along with any other Macross story, let alone 7.

[eugimon]

I don't see why there would need to be a "definitive" ending to the macross story... it's not like gundam where you are dealing with a finite number of colonies and factions...

At the end when most of the Macross is destroyed(except for the head) to me it says "That's all folks!" Seriously, that should be the final chapter, "Sayonara Love" baby!

So are you saying the end of the story of the SDF Macross the ship then?

[terry the lone wolf]

So are you saying the end of the story of the SDF Macross the ship then?

The ship and the story. I have the Macross 2 movie and it left you with the sense that this could be the end of the story. To me Mac 2 is comparable to Char's Counter Attack or X-Men: The End.

[macplus]

So are you saying the end of the story of the SDF Macross the ship then?

The ship and the story. I have the Macross 2 movie and it left you with the sense that this could be the end of the story. To me Mac 2 is comparable to Char's Counter Attack or X-Men: The End.

Putting Char's Counter Attack and X-Men: The End together...... you love Gundam Wing and Yugioh right? too much Cartoon Network IMHO... get help buddy!

Edited February 18, 2005 by macplus

[terry the lone wolf]

Putting Char's Counter Attack and X-Men: The End together...... you love Gundam Wing and Yugioh right? too much Cartoon Network IMHO... get help buddy!

Well.....I do love Gundam Wing.....Hmmmmm....Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz......Hmmmmmmmmm......

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

The best way to merge it to canon is to say that macross II is a sci-fiction movie (within the macross world) about the future for entertainment for the masses. (all of it was fictional and was made for entertainment for fans who liked DYRL)

That's why it takes place so far into the future because the people in the macrossworld are living in the future when it was made and sci-fi usually sets itself ahead in time. Notice how in the real world when we look back at old sci-fiction movies we can laugh at what people thought was futuristic for its time, because it looks outdated years later?

Well that's the explanation for the makers of macross II movie not looking ahead far enough or realising where technology would be in the future. (most of the advances were kept secret by the military similar to controversy of the mentioning of UFO/area 51 connection in the making of Independance Day.)

So those who made it, used brand new aliens (this to stay politically correct) as villains who were mind controlled to fight and destroy earth. (just like the destruction of the white house in Independance Day. It never happened - just a model of the white house. Similarly in macross II the sdf1 was never destroyed, only a model.)

Like many hollywood movies, the ending had to be on a happy note where the good humans were saved by a singing star and this explains why it was so derivative of the prequel documentary DYRL. Kids would go to watch Macross II as a science fiction movie and the money made from this would make the hollywood actors (the actress who offered to star in a sexploitation flick by wearing such a skimpy outfit that pretty much exposes 99% of skin) famous so that there would be more singing idols on earth to replace minmay when she left on the megaroad. The sequel movie would be a vehicle for this actress to be more famous and boost her pop idol status and singing career by also showing her talent in acting as well.

The actor who played Hibiki could be that bratty little kid (the one in SDF:macross in the first episode who was with minmay demanding to have a cola) all grown up, and who used his relation to minmay and minmay's fame to help him get a career in acting. He now promotes cola and appears in many coke ads. Many of minmay's most intimate secrets were revealed to the public thanks to him writing a book about her life by using her diary (minmay had a diary as a teenager that she tried to go back for in SDF:macross, but what wasn't known was that the little kid took it with him to read) for information to put into it and make money from the sale of the book which sold in the millions to fans of minmay. (this book was published after she left earth of course )

Edited February 20, 2005 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[eugimon]

hahaha, that's brilliant!

[Druna Skass]

Considering how powerful the UN Spacy was in the 40's the only way I could see Macross II fitting anywhere in the same universe is if the UN government as a whole just started to decay in the same way Gundam's Earth Federation did.

[TehPW]

I have a bigger problem with the mecha in MacO looking too advanced than I do with the VFs in MacII not looking advanced enough.

I completely agree.

Revisionistic, yes, Macross Zero's Valkyries are like that since alot of the inspiration of the designs come from Macross Plus and current aircraft in production, most notably the F-22 or simular designs.

i guess it's comparative to Star Trek: Enterprise and speculation of what 23rd century ships (TOS) would look like, using ST:E's NX-01 as a template. would the VF-1 look more like the VF-0, owing a more logical design using current philosophies?

[Renato]

LV Lurker, you're a genius. You found a use for Macross II!!

[promethuem5]

OMG you guys...... I actually liked MacII but I was wondering one thing: does the SDF/Macross ship appear in Mac7 at all?

[JB0]

OMG you guys...... I actually liked MacII but I was wondering one thing: does the SDF/Macross ship appear in Mac7 at all?

Nah. They left it back on Earth, half a galaxy away.

[promethuem5]

Oh. welll Idk where Mac7 takes place anyways. Thansk for an answer tho...

[Druna Skass]

Oh. welll Idk where Mac7 takes place anyways. Thansk for an answer tho...

well acutaly, if it counts, you see it in the flash back opening of the Encore episodes.

[Wesker99]

The actor who played Hibiki could be that bratty little kid (the one in SDF:macross in the first episode who was with minmay demanding to have a cola) all grown up, and who used his relation to minmay and minmay's fame to help him get a career in acting. He now promotes cola and appears in many coke ads. Many of minmay's most intimate secrets were revealed to the public thanks to him writing a book about her life by using her diary (minmay had a diary as a teenager that she tried to go back for in SDF:macross, but what wasn't known was that the little kid took it with him to read) for information to put into it and make money from the sale of the book which sold in the millions to fans of minmay. (this book was published after she left earth of course )

Hahaha, that's the best thing ever!

I really like your idea though.

Edited March 16, 2005 by Wesker99