Question for Macrossworld Dads

[Graham]

As we have quite a few MWers who are parents of young kids (myself included), I thought I'd pose this question which has been on my mind for a while now.

Now I'm guessing that most of you like me, would love it if our kids inherited our love of Macross. However how do you plan to let you kids first watch Macross?

What I'm getting at is, if the kid is too young, he may not be interested or will be unable to read subtiltes, but for most Macross anime, like the original SDF TV series, Macross 7 & Macross Zero, there is no dubbed version available, thanks to HG's meddling.

While there is always Robotech as a last resort, I'd personally, prefer not to subject my kid to that. However, if it comes down to my kid only wanting to watch dubbed anime, I might have to reconsider. What would you all do?

But thinking back to my own childhood, I remember being perfectly happy watching Japanese anime without any English subs and dubbed into Cantonese (which I do not understand) at the age of 6 years old (back in 1976). So hopefully, if my kid is the same as me, he will not mind watching SDF TV in original Japanese as Daddy can always explain the story and dialog to him .

On a related note, What do you think is better for a first exposure to Macross, the toys or the anime?

Graham

[Ido]

Go for clash of bionoids!

[striderhiryu]

well, i'm not a dad yet but i have a cousin who was like four years old when i introduced him to macross. it was first with macross plus, when he started watching the opening battle he was mesmerized, then next came the toys, games and models i own, it was first with the VF-19A.

so, as to inherit our love for macross to the next generation at least for me i'm sure it won't be difficult, yet the most important part is that the kids enjoys it, as we did in our time.

i think if i have a kid and he likes the show i could greatly help to develop the relationship even better since there is nothing like a father and a son who share the same interest wich allows them to have some quality time.

maybe the right moment to introduce them to it is when you feel they have a little more awareness of the world so they can understand certain things, maybe when they're six years or older.

hopefully one day i will be blessed with a kid in the future.... but i have yet to marry.

maybe it would be more interesting to hear what the actual dads have to say about their experience in this matter........

[AlphaHX]

Unfortunately, I would have to say Robotech. I'll admit that I first saw Robotech when I was young and that was what first got me into Macross. The cool thing was that I watched it so young I actually dont even remember the butchered storyline. I just remembered it was in english and I understood but didnt care whatsoever about the storyline. As long as there were awesome looking planes changing into robots I was jumping for joy.

It was only after Macross Plus that made me intrigue to watch the original Macross again. At the time that I saw Macross Plus, I was in middle school and already Ive figured that most dubbed anime just didnt do justice to what was really being said. So when getting back into Macross, I specifically looked for the Japanese version with subtitles... and boy was I glad to have done that. I didnt even realize how butchered Robotech was until I went back searching for Macross stuff. I was always under the impression that Robotech was ONLY the Macross show brought over to America, renamed and dubbed. Geez... I couldnt have been more wrong.

Basically, getting back to the point... being Asian, I saw my fair share of movies and even anime that I didnt understand... at all. Even tho they seemed cooler to me, for some reason I just couldnt like it as much as the shows that did I understand such as Transformer, TMNT, and Batman. If it hadnt for been for Mac Plus, I dont think I would have ever gone back to watch the original Macross. Just my 2 cents.

Oh... and I would definitely go for anime first... then toy. I remember when I was pretty young and my older brothers were playing with Transformer toys and I didnt think anything of it but years later when I finally saw the cartoon the first thing I did was hop out of my chair and started to dig thru my brothers old toys looking for their Transformer toys.

Plus with toy being after, you can use it as an excuse to give it to them as a birthday gift or something. So when they go, "daddy daddy, I want a cool plane like that *points at Macross on tv*", you can just respond with, "oh, really?... I'll buy you one for your birthday cuz I'm a cool dad."

Edited February 15, 2005 by AlphaHX

[fansubs2000]

I used to watch anime & Japanese fighting shows (Kamen Rider, Kikaida, Gorangers, Ultraman, etc..) all the time when i was a kid and those shows were NEVER dubbed in English back in the 70's. I wouldn't mind, and i wouldn't miss an episode either, that's how much I love Japanese programming when i was young.

My advice, stick with the original show.

I'll be a father in April, and that's what i plan to do.

As for a first exposure, go with the anime.

After watching a few episodes show him one of your toys.

It will get him more "into" the series, and will want to watch more to see the dogfights, etc..

Of course, he will want to have his "own" Macross toys too though.......

[polidread]

Subtitles make learning (english) faster.

that's how i help educate my younger siblings

[Radd]

If kids grow up in an environment where subtitled entertainment is prevalent, then my guess is that they will be less likely to discern between subbed and dubbed anime. Someone that grows up only seeing entertainment in their own language is likely to, at least at first, be put off by subtitled shows or movies. Someone that grows up where as much or more of their entertainment is subtitled isn't likely to see it as out of the ordinary.

Grok?

[Mr March]

Two points to consider.

1) As much as I love Macross and will always enjoy it, Macross is far past it's prime. Like film, timing and popular culture relevance are what drive 99% of all creative works. As a child back in the 1980's, Macross was very relevant, new, and came out at a time when most kids were in love with giant robots and demand was high. In all likelyhood, you child is not growing up in the same state of mind or current culture which would endorse Macross. Not to say it's unlikely the child will ever enjoy it, just be aware of the fact that times have changed and Macross simply isn't on top of the food chain as it were.

2) Robotech is by far even more dated and more irrelevant. Not only is it a modification (and a poor one at that) of an anime past its prime, but it is also the poster child for the mistreatment of a foreign artform in North America. When your child is an adult and IF he/she becomes an anime enthusiast, it would be more than worthwhile to watch Robotech from the perspective of the anime historian.

On a side note, I would strongly encourage you to introduce your child to foreign, subtitled art and entertainment as early as possible. As a huge fan of film, myself as a Canadian is spoiled by the amount of native language film and it is possible for most of my fellow citizens to go their entire lives never enjoying foreign film because they "hate subtitles". It would be a tragedy to perpetuate this narrow viewpoint and so I would encourage you to at least try. The child may always reject it, but at least you've tried. And keep in mind, as the child grows, he may even explore subtitled film/anime he/she once rejected simply becuase of the early childhood experience. It worked for me.

[mikeszekely]

I'm going to throw one in for subs, too. Far too many people today, and I mean adults, not just young people, will say that they don't like to read. This includes subtitles, but some people I know are baffled by the fact that I consider reading a novel to be a form of entertainment. The sooner you get your kids to realize that reading is easy and can be fun, the better off they'll be in life.

[Chowser]

I'm doing subs right now.

My daughter is only 2, but she seems to like spending time with daddy watching Macross.

Basically, anything with a skull and crossbones, she calls Macross.

She also knows, little Macross (1/60), big Macross (1/48), chunky Macross (1/55) and baby Macross (SDs).

My wife doesn't mind, she says she would like her to hear different languages while she's young.

Now, my son is 13, he's not really into subbed stuff, the only subbed stuff he'll watch is Macross 7, everything else, it's gotta be dubbed. I bought him a Super 1/55 Bandai reissue when they came out, he doesn't play with it too much, he does at least transform it a few times a week and poses them.

[Ghadrack]

Right on Mike!

I think that if you present subtitles as something special, rather than a nuisance then they might be more readily accepted. When I was a kid and the only way to see many anime was fansubbed I really thought about anything subtitles was cool. I like hearing the original language, I like being able to read what they are saying and pick up a workd here and there, I just generally adore the subtitled format. I know thatmany people don't and that is fine.

Personally, I would shoot for Macross subtitled and save Robotech as a fall back option if you can't get the little fella to be interested if he has to read.

[Agent ONE]

I don't have any kids that I know of.

I wouldn't show any kids SDFM untill they could read the subs. By that age they would really enjoy it.

I see Macross like Bond, if my Dad had made me watch From Russia With Love when I was too young I would have neen bored and never liked it. He waited untill I asked about Bond, then he watched them all with me and I love em.

[Chowser]

don't forget, most kids these days don't like to read their movies (nor do some adults), I remember when we went to watch Hero at the theaters, they had signs posted everywhere before you bought your ticket that the movie was subtitled and that they will not issue refunds. I can't believe how many people decided to go to a different movie because they didn't want to be bothered with reading.

Now, I understand a little catonese, but I still had to read the movie

Kids these days don't like to read, I've dealt with 8 year olds who can't read, but the teachers keep passing them. Sheesh. My daughter is 2, she can sing the alphabet, recognize the letters in her name, and knows about half the alphabet, she can also make an S into a $ and knows what $$ is (it's used to buy her things, "Daddy, buy this for me with your money.")

She likes to read books as well, so this helps when watching anime, she'll say that the words are going by too fast so thankfully for pause.

I have all the Robotech DVDs (from the legacy box sets), but so far, we have not pulled them out to watch. We're gonna finish SDF Macross. The only thing my wife complains about is that it's sometimes a little too violent for her (I'm not allowed to play MGS3 or Halo 2 around her, but my wife can play RPGs where she's attacking monsters, just not people).

Right now, I'm working with her on how to transform a 1/55. She can get the legs right, that's about it.

Now as long as she doesn't do what my brother did when we were younger, we'll be ok. (back in the late 80s, he decided that my MINTY MINT jetfire and Robotech Alphas were real planes and tossed them to see if they could fly!!!!! )

[lt.actionjackson]

Well, my son is two and right now we're on Studio Ghibli films. They are dubbed but he's totally mesmerized by Kiki's Delivery Service and Spirited Away. I thought about letting him watch Mononoke, but there's quite a bit more violence so I'm probably going to hold off for a couple of years. Lately I've also been thinking about starting him RT in a couple of years as well. I know it's blasphemy but, it's pretty tame. I realize it has horrible dubbing and music, but I think subtitles would turn off a child younger than 11.

[Kamion]

Well, my son is two and right now we're on Studio Ghibli films. They are dubbed but he's totally mesmerized by Kiki's Delivery Service and Spirited Away. I thought about letting him watch Mononoke, but there's quite a bit more violence so I'm probably going to hold off for a couple of years. Lately I've also been thinking about starting him RT in a couple of years as well. I know it's blasphemy but, it's pretty tame. I realize it has horrible dubbing and music, but I think subtitles would turn off a child younger than 11.

Oooh. You should let your son watch My Neighbour Totoro.

As for Macross, I don't know. Watching something they can't understand what the characters are saying might be less meaningful. Depends how old they are I guess. Though if you start them with Robotech, you might not be able to wean them off it until they're into their late teens/adult when they realise how dumb it actually is.

[Mechamaniac]

Well, my kids are 7 and 2, so for right now I'm going to stick with Miyazake's stuff as it is very kid friendly for the most part.

They are hooked on Totoro, and Kiki's Delivery Service. Maybe when they get older I will introduce them to Macross, but they are both Girls, so I don't know how well it will take.

[Graham]

Thanks for all the feedback fellas. It's been very interesting and helpful reading all your opinions.

I think I'm going to stick with subtitled Macross for my son. I was perfectly happy watching anime I couldn't understand as a kid, so hopefully my son will accept it also.

I'd really prefer to avoid showing him RT. Actually, I don't even own any RT DVDs or VHS and I'm not really keen on buying it. Plus isn't forcing your child to listen to Reba West considered a form of child abuse?

The Studio Ghibli movies sounds like a good introduction to anime, I think I'll probably try that. Anyway, my little guy is only 8 months old, so I still have a ways to go yet before he'll be interested in watching any anime.

It's so sad to hear that so many kids and adults are not into reading. Books have been a huge part of my life since I was a kid and I still go through 1 or 2 novels a week. If I had to choose between books or video games, books would win hands down. I'm going to do everything in my power to encourage my kid to read.

Graham

[promethuem5]

Get him into comics first.... that way you can get him into reading AND introduce him to anime.... and then he can watch it adn relate to it and read it some more... and then make you double your 1/48 collection Serisouly tho... as a 15 year old who is just now getting seriosuly into anime... Manga is my best friend ever.... I like to draw and do artsy fartsy stuff, so static images are my best friend. I cant stress just how much I wish all of Macross was made into Mangas and brought over to the US. I love watching it and all, and I think that it helps alot to visualize the complex designs and transformations and such.... but I am such an avid reader that I get alot out of Mangas too. Subtitled anime ont he other hand peeves me because the only time I really watch TV usually is while I am painting miniatures or doing some other modelling work, and I cant be reading the movie at the same time.... It depends on what kind of kid he is and what his other interests are.... if he likes anime, he will like the part that fits in with his other activities...

[Culverin]

toys. i'm a mecha person and i've got a younger bro who is just about 6

introduced him to mecha with toys and pictures and short video clips from the net for battletech... and he can recognize stuff... heck, if it were ok by my parents, i'd have shown him macross by now, but he's not supposed to watch the same crap that i do

so yeah, pictures and stuff young... maybe even the series once he's able to sit through hour long movies and such...

[promethuem5]

Yeah but Culvey, you dont want them to get a 1/48 and then be dissapointed by the subpar animation in a few of the episodes, do you?

[Graham]

We did actually have 1 or 2 threads previously about what is the best Valk toy for toddlers and young kids and also how to child-proof the toys, so small kids don't injure themself playing with them. Obviously, if your toddler is still at the stage wher he puts everything in his mouth, then no Valk toy is suitable, with the possible exception of the 1/65 Stealth Valks, which have no small removeable parts which could be a choking hazard.

Obviously, the Yamato 1/48 & 1/60 or Banprestos are not really suitable as they have too many small parts and they are too complex or fragile.

A 1/55 is a good first toy, as long as the spring-loaded landing gear is disabled, as those pop open landing gear can easily hurt small fingers. Also, if the 1/55 is a reisue, the canopy should be glued in place, so that it cannot be removed and swallowed.

Also, as mentioned above, I personally think a 1/65 VF-17S/D is a great toy for a first valk as it is light weight and durable, so wont hurt too much if your kid accidently hits themself on the head with it. It has no removeable parts or small parts that could come off for the kid to choke on. Transformation is simple. The toy doesn really feature any sharp edges.

Graham

[port]

Hey Graham. Dude, I have three, two and six month old. The two older kids don't like any of my anima . My oldest calls Robotech; Roboteths . I'm not against Robotech in any way. I like it alot. I also like the Macross story too. All my kids want is Barney Barney Barney. I hope they'll like my anima when they get older. Here is my clan.

[Graham]

All my kids want is Barney Barney Barney. I hope they'll like my anima when they get older. Here is my clan.

Nice looking kids.

Barney is banned in my house, as is Teletubbies

My boy quite likes watching Sesame street though.

Graham

[striderhiryu]

something one should consider in some cases is the violence in some animes like DYRL. while some might be worried about it i did not had any problems with that, also before i introduced my cousin and my young brothers into macross we used to watch some anime for the violence, i think the first one was fist of the north star, we really had a good laugh watching those heads explode. but in my brothers case i only allowed them to watch movies like ninja scroll only when they were mature enough.

[striderhiryu]

All my kids want is Barney Barney Barney. I hope they'll like my anima when they get older. Here is my clan.

Nice looking kids.

Barney is banned in my house, as is Teletubbies

My boy quite likes watching Sesame street though.

Graham

i agree, when i have a kid i will bann every single dumb and lame show that is out on TV. and that also goes for lame anime like yu-gi-oh, beyblade, duelmasters, and any other things those crazy japanese come with, for my wallet's sake.

[Laserstorm]

I don't have kids, so I'll have to use me as an example. I think that you shouldn't let your kid watch TV until he or she is 7-8 years old, let him/her fill his/her time with playing with toys or with his/her friends.

At 7-8 years, concerning tv or video/dvd, play the cartoons and movies you see fit, for cartoons I recommend good old Disney hand drawn movies, as for other foreign animated movies always play subtitled not dubbed versions, that way you're making him learn to read and think faster, also that might prompt him/her to learn the language (I learned english that way, all of the Disney movies were subtitled, and when they started airing super channel on our local TV channel, I was able to understand some conversations, and it statedly went uphill from there, I was able to talk almost fluently, but didn't know to write which was remedied when I started learning english in 5th grade when I was 11).

Concerning Macross, don't bother with Robotech if your kids maternal language is English, go for subbed Macross. When I have kids I'll play Robotech first to fire them all up, but not the original english version, I'll play the dubbed Version our state channel did about 13 years ago, as it has a much better dub quality, also they aired only 13 episodes of it, so no Southern Cross and no New Generation. Then I'll play them Macross from the beginning (when I buy it that is).

[lt.actionjackson]

Rather than start a new thread, I just wanted to say thanks for the advice on getting My Neighbor Tortoro for my son. He loves it and we've watched twice in the last three days. BTW, to anyone else who owns it, did you notice Carl Macek's name is listed in the credits? Is there any anime out there he didn't get his fingers into during the eighties?

[Noriko Takaya]

When I rented an apartment from a friend of mine a number of years back, I got his daughter hooked on anime when she was about 6, and she actually learned to read a lot better in school and home because of the subtitles. Mind you, most of the titles I let her watch were mostly kid friendly, but being 16 now she pretty much watches everything she can get ahold of. And while she has seen the subtitled Macross, she actually does not like it, but prefers Macross Plus. Go figure. And she knows about Robotech and will not go near it. I can only hope that one day my own kids will be like her.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

I read comics/manga as a kid.

I watched subbed and english dubbed anime.

Try everything and let them decide which is cooler.

Hell toggle the audio button on your dvd controller while watching macross plus to see what he prefers. I think there are advantages to having english dubs in some cases like in robotech where you hear global's voice with a russian accent and can tell his background right away but unfortunately is offset by the inferior story music etc

On a related note, What do you think is better for a first exposure to Macross, the toys or the anime?

Don't show the old tv series as it has dated too much. Show it only as a historical thing and explain that is was from another era than him, so he can deal with the wierd hairdos and choppy animation. (kids are really spoilded these days. He may laugh at first )

Instead show macross plus, and macross zero or even DYRL with the violence and all. (don't want to shelterthem forever so that they can't make decisions on thier own and never grow up and mature?)

Then get him some models or toys. I find that you apreciate stuff much more when you know what the mech is from and realise its place. ie the valkyire is an all-enviroment vehicle, mass produced for war, custom designed to fight giants, and weapons it has are effective for certain tasks. You know the function and purpose of each weapon and why it is deisgned the way it is. Unlike say transformers where there are hundreds of variations of robots and the kid can just apreciate the vehicles themselves as a toy and the fact they can transform into a robot too is just a bonus without ever seeing the cartoon or caring about the stats on the back of the box.

also before i introduced my cousin and my young brothers into macross we used to watch some anime for the violence, i think the first one was fist of the north star, we really had a good laugh watching those heads explode. but in my brothers case i only allowed them to watch movies like ninja scroll only when they were mature enough.

One of the cool things about animation is seeing how detailed they can recreate explosions or bloody deaths and put proper physics into it. This was definately the draw because to me it is an pop-culture artform as much as a serious thing you need to put into a story in a non-gratuitous way. I remember when I first saw DYRL and was blown away at how detailed and realistic the animation was and how serious and moody it was compared to the series. Really like night and day. The object of the game imo is to see how much can they draw you into this fantasy world such that you forget it is not real.

If after watching something you say "that reminds me of what it would really feel like if there was an explosion and it whacked me right in the face", then they've done thier job convincing you that you were really there. (you get that feeling when watching macross plus too. Much more cinematic than a tv series because of the playing around with the camera and sweeping effect you see in some of the dog fights)

It's not so much that I like violence but just that I'm surprised at the amount of detail and work that goes into "the mindless destruction" compared to cartoons back then. I don't get enjoyment watching car crashes or going to destruction derby and waiting for something to go wrong, just that seeing these things animated impresses and entertains me. I thought "cool, I love the way that regult just turned into swiss cheese when hikaru blew it away with his gunpod" The way the levels of armor peel away and fly apart is sorta beautiful as a little kid. This is why I can still enjoy watching macross II because to me it has the same ingredients that can still make it entertaining to watch even though it is a clone of the oriignal. The same can be said with just about every scene in Akira. The telekinetic powers show lots of animated punch and is rendered beautifully. There is a lot of information hidden inside the movement that you just don't get when they go sloppy with frames. Those frames are like the 'adjectives' that described how something happened.

As you can see I enjoy a lot of action anime like spriggan or ninja scroll where there is a lot of energy involved. It's one of the main reasons why I think if they remade or updated the original macross the way astroboy or some old school anime was done it could ressurect some interest for newer generations.

Edited March 9, 2005 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[Beltane70]

While not a parent myself, I did try to get my niece to watch anime, but have only succeeded in getting her to enjoy Miyazaki films. I'm still hoping that she will eventually get into it somewhat more, but I won't hold my breath.

However, I will have a new nephew in a few months that I hope I can corrupt, er, introduce anime to in a few years.

PS. Well, at least now I know that Graham is the same age as me!

[peter]

Don't have kids yet either but when/if we do, they're going to speak Japanese so

we're not going to have to worry about subtitles.....I just hope they're not going to have trouble with English!

My wife-to-be is Japanese and I think it will take me another two to three years for me to have a conversational grasp on the language. By the time we start spitting out kids, it shouldn't be a problem.

I don't think I will expose them to the poisons of HG, but hell, they might not like Macross anyway. I wonder, do hardcore-otaku parents force their kids to like the stuff they like? For example, the uber-nerd known collectively known as "Trekkies" do some horrible things in their personal lives. Yuck!

Barney and Teletubbies are not and will not be permitted in my home.

[Backstabber]

I have a 2 year old daughter and a 7 year old son.. he watches RT for about an episode and gets bored. He's also watched some of the Macross generations.. again he becomes bored. He does like Godzilla and will watch it subtitled even though he's not reading it. I only know this because he couldn't figure out how to change the language selection. He does prefer it dubbed because it allows him to understand what is going on and the emotions. My advice is to let your children decide what interests them and nothing to them is considered dumbing down as they learn at their own pace and only from what interests them.

Just as some in this thread have mentioned some parents are too lazy to intrigue their children with knowledge there are also those that try to force too much upon them before they are ready. This could lead to making them dislike something they may have potentially liked in the future.

Edited March 9, 2005 by Backstabber

[Mechamaniac]

I have two Daughters, 7 and 2.

On the toy front, I donated a bootleg VF-19 Blazer valk to my oldest a couple of years ago, and she digs it. I do have to dispute what you said about them not having any removable parts though Graham. Think your Valk doesn't have removable parts?, give it to a 4 year old, and you will quickly discover that you're mistaken.

I don't know to this day how she did it, but one time she brought it to me so mis-transformed that I had to take the head off to get it back to where it was supposed to be.

As to anime, my kids are Miyazaki junkies. You really can't go wrong with Miyazaki's stuff for the most part. They love Totoro, Kiki's Delivery Service, and Spirited Away, and watch them all the time.

[VALKYRIE-EXCHANGE.COM]

My daughter, Allison, is almost 6mos old now-- a bit young for any toys other than teethers and musical alpha-keyboards but one of these days I'll whip out one of the Miriya VF1 'Veritech' morphers for her to chew on.

I don't think I want her to turn into a tomboy but she'll probably move on to a 1/55 VF-1 bootleg and my Exo-squad destroids.

She loves Sesame street though....She can zone out for 20 minutes without even blinking....

-K

[Myersjessee]

My son and I watched Robotech when he was about 5. He loved the mecha, story, and action. We watched on weekends over about 6 months. At 6, I started showing him other Macross...first ones in English (Mac Plus...minus the bad scenes... ) The subtitled ones we watched in small segments with me reading him the dialogue. He's almost 9 now...loves them, and reads the subtitles himself. While Robotech is a "no no" here...it was a good, safe easy starting point.

As for Toys...My son has destroyed several morphers, VF1 Boots...a Takatoku 1/55 VF1S, and some Bandai 1/65 M7 toys. I found I am better off having some toys that are daddy's that he can ask to play with then giving them to him. On my lowest display shelf I have some 1/55's Exosquad Zentradi and Destroids, and the Bandai 1/65 M7 craft. He plays with them all the time...but since they are "mine" he doesn't throw them down the stairs or leave them outside.