Most plausible mecha designs

[GobotFool]

Okay, okay, I know plausible and mecha don't really belong in the same sentence together, but I was still curious, from all the mecha designs out there, which do my fellow MWers feel are the most plausible? It doesn't have to be limited to Japanese anime mecha.

I’d probably go with the GITS battle armor tanks and Patlabor labors. The monster is not that far of when you consider it is just a mobile artillery unit, and having legs is better than having to be carted around using train tracks like some of those old cannons they used in WW1.

[F360°]

I will have to say the Mecha from Gasaraki series.

[ShadowerV2]

Powered Suit from Starship troopers.

[Opus]

The combat armors from Dougram.

[Opus]

And thier little cousin the Scope Dog from Votoms.

[JB0]

Mechagodzilla.

[Graham]

• Armored Troopers from VOTOMS.
  
• Tactical Armor from Gasaraki.
  
• Labors from Patlabor.
  
• Powered Suits from Starship Troopers OVA.
  
• MADOX-01 from Metal Skin Panic.
  

Graham

[hellohikaru]

-Most of the Patlabor "labors" especially the construction labors, the Ingram and the Brocken.

-Nove and other powered armour from Dorvack

-Votoms

-Tetsujin

Edited February 15, 2005 by hellohikaru

[Retracting Head Ter Ter]

Gundam Ball!

I think one of the biggest problem with walking mecha is stabilising the cockpit. WHen a human or animal walks, the head (cockpit) area moves up and down. Quite uncomfortable for a pilot unless they have a free floating/inertial cancelling cockpit.

When you have a big mecha moving/dodging/fighting the cockpit should be moving around a lot. Much more so then a tank. The bigger the mecha, the bigger the movement.

Edited February 15, 2005 by Retracting Head Ter Ter

[eugimon]

The suits from heavy gear.

[MSW]

If you took the fin things off the shoulders and scaled em down to 20-25 feet tall...the EVAs are by far the most plauseable humanoid designs....the Super robot Red Baron would be my number two pick

There are big problems with Votoms, Labors, even Madox and such...try sticking 20lbs of wieght around your ankles, put on some oversize clown shoes, then run around...it ain't easy, and has nothing to do with your leg strength...the weight shifts your normal weight bias around more closely mimicing typical "realistic" mecha...course the clown shoes mimic the oversize lower legs and feet...course those designs also overlook another very important part of humanoid anatomy...our flexible back and shoulders...in short if you want it to move like a human, well it really needs to have the same wieght bias and flexability...

Another thing to think about...say you set out to design a mecha that can run 60 miles per hour...each foot wieghs one ton...it has a 80 foot stride running this fast...lets see in one minute that mech travels 5280 feet, which means it makes 66 strides to cover that distance....thats a bit over one per second...so every second the mech must pick its 2,000 pound foot up...swing it forward some 80 feet at greater then 60MPH....plant it back on the ground again to repeat the cycle ... Now if you can design a trouble free low maintance ankle, knee, and hip joint that can take that much stress and punishment...then you will quickly find that such joints DO NOT need armor protection

Not that I'm into mecha for plauseability and/or realisam anyway

[Opus]

If you took the fin things off the shoulders and scaled em down to 20-25 feet tall...the EVAs are by far the most plauseable humanoid designs....the Super robot Red Baron would be my number two pick

There are big problems with Votoms, Labors, even Madox and such...try sticking 20lbs of wieght around your ankles, put on some oversize clown shoes, then run around...it ain't easy, and has nothing to do with your leg strength...the weight shifts your normal weight bias around more closely mimicing typical "realistic" mecha...course the clown shoes mimic the oversize lower legs and feet...course those designs also overlook another very important part of humanoid anatomy...our flexible back and shoulders...in short if you want it to move like a human, well it really needs to have the same wieght bias and flexability...

Another thing to think about...say you set out to design a mecha that can run 60 miles per hour...each foot wieghs one ton...it has a 80 foot stride running this fast...lets see in one minute that mech travels 5280 feet, which means it makes 66 strides to cover that distance....thats a bit over one per second...so every second the mech must pick its 2,000 pound foot up...swing it forward some 80 feet at greater then 60MPH....plant it back on the ground again to repeat the cycle ... Now if you can design a trouble free low maintance ankle, knee, and hip joint that can take that much stress and punishment...then you will quickly find that such joints DO NOT need armor protection

Not that I'm into mecha for plauseability and/or realisam anyway

Votoms mechs have wheels in thier feet. That's what makes em so dang practical.

[eugimon]

yup, also the Gears in Heavy Gear as well.. and if you're wearing a big power suit... why would you have to move the limbs around based human strength? the whole idea is that the user directs the suit through his/her movements, the suit reads this and amplifies the action.

I like the gears since they are small... I find the biggest draw back with most mech desings is how freaking huge they are... they just make huge noisy targets... smaller 10ft tall units could have a much easier time hiding and being transportated... it allows you to have way more units on the field with the same transport technology.

[Mechwolf]

I've always felt that smaller mecha like Labors, Armored Troopers & Tactical Armors are just as important as large mecha like Battlemechs, Mobile Suits & Destroids. The advantages of smaller mecha is that they are less of a target & can be transported almost as easily as tanks. Plus they tend to be depicted as having equivilant firepower & armor, but more manuverable & requiring only 1 crewmember compared to tanks of their universe.

Larger mecha are obviously bigger targets, but tend to be depicted as being able to deliver much more firepower than a smaller mecha built with the same technology base could have been within that same universe.

Case in point: AT-AT vs. AT-ST. Sure the AT-ST is a harder target to hit. But it simply can not deliver the same destructive force as the AT-AT. And yes, the AT-AT is a much easier target to hit, but it also has the extra armor to help offset that balance. Plus, AT-STs protect the flanks of AT-AT groups.

Edited February 15, 2005 by Mechwolf

[Akilae]

Isn't there a logical maximum size that mechanized units reach before they become inefficient? After all, think about tanks. Any random infantry unit with the proper equipment can quickly disable a tank, rendering all that armor useless. That was always my main problem with huge mechs... they're just friggin big targets...

Anyhow, my vote goes to the MI of Starship Troopers =)

[MSW]

yup, also the Gears in Heavy Gear as well.. and if you're wearing a big power suit... why would you have to move the limbs around based human strength? the whole idea is that the user directs the suit through his/her movements, the suit reads this and amplifies the action.

My arguments had NOTHING to do with strength

Your foot weighs less then your lower leg, which in turn weighs less then your upper leg...normaly a persons center of gravity is about mid navel...change that around...like on a heavy gear, votoms, etc and when you swing the heavyer foot forward to walk...doesn't matter how strong the limb is...it throws the entire balance out of wack, compromises its ability to even do the most mundaine tasks...objects put in motion, tend to stay in motion...its just simple physics...adding wheels and such, adds more weight makeing it that much worse...

Besides even with our physics friendly mother nature developed physique...we still must swing our arms around to counter balance the shifting weight bias imposed by walking...take away our flexable backbone and shoulders as on Votoms, and Heavy Gears (and no a rotateing waist joint doesn't count) and the mechs ability to counterbalance while navigateing a diverse landscape becomes severly impared...which in turn limits the types of terrain it can navigate makeing the whole walking machine thing a moot point

[Hubert]

I would have to say :

- getta robo

- gao gai gar

seriously, I only say the rx-75 gun tank and the little robots of gunbuster

[Zentrandude]

i would like to see heavy gear mechs make it to real life but it looks like you could easily crush yourself if you ran into anything.

BTW I won't get into that arguement since we (humans have very little expence in a biped robot that weights over 1 ton)

[sabretooth]

gasaraki's ta's (tactical armors) address most if not all of these questions

hands down the most thought out design , when it comes to navigation, support and maintenence and overall realistic combat situations and deployment methodology

they REALLY made a point to pretty much go overboard on the design and practicality of each unit

freaking awesome

i love it

patlabor is second

eva is just way the hell out there and highly unlikely

votoms and scopedog a close third

pretty much any king of walking armor/mech has to under 40' tall due to the amount of stress the joints would incur

[shinohara]

I'll go for

Goshogun

Patlabor

[Gui]

Maschinen Krieger

[UN_MARINE]

...METAL GEAR !?!? (turns head & seessolid snake )

the idea's not THAT farfetched if you think about it, and it's actually feasable now

[Dangaioh]

It would have to be Heavy Lifters from Aliens, or the Armored Combat Suit from C&C Tiberean Sun.

From an Anime aspect... Construction mechs from PatLabor.

Almost there mechas.... Valkyries from Macross, Mechs from Gasaraki or even from Full Metal Panic.

For the ridiculous... mechs from GoNagai (Getter Robo, Mazinger, etc.), mecha designs from Kenichi Sonada (Maddox, Knight Saber Suits, or Canon God Exaxxion, etc.), GunBuster or Dangaioh.

[the white drew carey]

Blassty!!!

I do like a lot of the Gasaraki and Patlabor designs. I think the Landmates as shown in the early Appleseed comics take the cake though. I thought they looked great in the movie, but were a little too nimble compared to what I imagined. Oh well.

[Mechamaniac]

gasaraki's ta's (tactical armors) address most if not all of these questions

hands down the most thought out design , when it comes to navigation, support and maintenence and overall realistic combat situations and deployment methodology

they REALLY made a point to pretty much go overboard on the design and practicality of each unit

Gasaraki and Patlabor.

Gasaraki started out great, and then they went all wierd on us with the pilots being injected with hydraulic fluid from the TA's which made them berserker nuts etc etc. Then the series ended with everyone floating in goo pondering existence. If Gasaraki had stayed away from all the zen mysticism BS, it would have been the most realistic mecha series to date.

However, given that Gasaraki went all strange on us, I have to say Patlabor comes out the winner. (At least until WXIII )

[Retracting Head Ter Ter]

Isn't there a logical maximum size that mechanized units reach before they become inefficient? After all, think about tanks. Any random infantry unit with the proper equipment can quickly disable a tank, rendering all that armor useless. That was always my main problem with huge mechs... they're just friggin big targets...

Anyhow, my vote goes to the MI of Starship Troopers =)

The size of the weapon carrier (mech/ship/plane) which is the most tactically efficient depends on one most important factor. The size of the most effective weapon currently available.

e.g. Back when big naval rifles ruled the day, capital ships had to be big. When the brits put an 18 inch gun on a big cruiser, they strained the hull. So now that SAMs/SSMs are smaller and dont have recoil problems, surface combat vessels dont need to be that honking big. You can bet that if aircraft dont need the huge takeoff/landing spaces, its more effective to build 2 smaller carriers then one 1000+ foot long USS Enterprise.

So in a world where small hand held weapons can defeat big mechs, big mechs wont be needed. In a world where huge beam weapons can hit and destroy any target, the capital unit would be Death Stars.

Think about it, with advanced targetting technology (even early 21st century tech can hit a mach 25 missile with a laser), a huge cap ship with beam weapons bigger then the attacking mechs/spacefighters would outrange and destroy any attacking force with smaller vessels/guns in open space.

[Akilae]

So in a world where small hand held weapons can defeat big mechs, big mechs wont be needed. In a world where huge beam weapons can hit and destroy any target, the capital unit would be Death Stars.

Think about it, with advanced targetting technology (even early 21st century tech can hit a mach 25 missile with a laser), a huge cap ship with beam weapons bigger then the attacking mechs/spacefighters would outrange and destroy any attacking force with smaller vessels/guns in open space.

I dunno about that... the ISDs in Star Wars always seem to miss an awful lot (My personal gripe on Sci-Fi: In an age of shields, ion propulsion, and laser cannons, nobody has the brains to invent a slightly better targeting system???)

[Anubis]

I'd say the Patlabor's and the Gasaraki mecha.

Something like a Tachikoma is pretty feasible too, the ways things keep advancing these days.

Edited February 15, 2005 by Anubis

[Akilae]

Tachikomas make sense in that they use wheels for any sort of long haul drive, and they have an awfully advanced AI program.

In terms of feasability, I'm still trying to figure out how to actually pilot mechs. Granted you have a stick of sorts, a throttle, but complex movements would be a nightmare. How do you make a mech run forward and leap over a ravine (assuming no jump jets...)? Or how do you make it lean up against a wall and peep over the edge? I still think suits are the way to go, instead of mechs with cockpits. Just strap it on and you're good to go.

Unless we're talking about stuff like tachikomas and AI programs...

[F-ZeroOne]

Okay, for the record: I am yet to be convinced that any mecha - with the possible exception of multiple-legged "spider"-like designs - is a plausible combat platform. This is despite the fact that I have "mecha" engraved upon my soul and Patlabor on TV is my second favourite anime TV series. I find even Patlabor fudges the issues.

Having said that, I am no longer as certain as I used to be that we never see humanoid mecha either in civilian roles, or in as-yet-unknown combat scenarios. Honda - among others - have literally made great strides lately with bipedal robot designs.

So, my choice goes to: The Black Magic M(Marionette)-66 from the Masamune Shirow manga/anime of the same name. Shirow even says he made it female because it would cause pyschological hesitation in male soldiers...

[F-ZeroOne]

I dunno about that... the ISDs in Star Wars always seem to miss an awful lot (My personal gripe on Sci-Fi: In an age of shields, ion propulsion, and laser cannons, nobody has the brains to invent a slightly better targeting system???)

Blame it on the World War II-era fleet and air battles things like Star Wars took their inspiration from; the USAAF, for one, found that being able to drop a "bomb into a pickle barrel from 20,000 feet" only worked if you didn't add flak, fighters, and worst of all, European weather, to the equation...

[mikeszekely]

So in a world where small hand held weapons can defeat big mechs, big mechs wont be needed. In a world where huge beam weapons can hit and destroy any target, the capital unit would be Death Stars.

Think about it, with advanced targetting technology (even early 21st century tech can hit a mach 25 missile with a laser), a huge cap ship with beam weapons bigger then the attacking mechs/spacefighters would outrange and destroy any attacking force with smaller vessels/guns in open space.

I dunno about that... the ISDs in Star Wars always seem to miss an awful lot (My personal gripe on Sci-Fi: In an age of shields, ion propulsion, and laser cannons, nobody has the brains to invent a slightly better targeting system???)

Perhaps, in the future, it's not that targeting systems suck... perhaps the targets' ECM or ability not to be targeted has just advanced that much...

In any case, most realistic mecha? Jr. Mobile Suit.

[bsu legato]

So in a world where small hand held weapons can defeat big mechs, big mechs wont be needed. In a world where huge beam weapons can hit and destroy any target, the capital unit would be Death Stars.

Think about it, with advanced targetting technology (even early 21st century tech can hit a mach 25 missile with a laser), a huge cap ship with beam weapons bigger then the attacking mechs/spacefighters would outrange and destroy any attacking force with smaller vessels/guns in open space.

I dunno about that... the ISDs in Star Wars always seem to miss an awful lot (My personal gripe on Sci-Fi: In an age of shields, ion propulsion, and laser cannons, nobody has the brains to invent a slightly better targeting system???)

Perhaps, in the future, it's not that targeting systems suck... perhaps the targets' ECM or ability not to be targeted has just advanced that much...

In any case, most realistic mecha? Jr. Mobile Suit.

You guys are also underestimating the "Hero Effect" on the Imperials aim. Star Wars would have been a pretty short film if the ISD had taken out the Falcon as it fled Tatooine, or if the Stormtroopers had managed to land a hit on Luke & Leia as they ran around in the Death Star. They certainly never had a problem hitting the no-name rebels.

As for Mecha, I think that, given the complexity of human movement, the only practical way to control a humanoid machine would be a control system like the Landmates. (spare us your "video game joystick combo" control scheme. )

[Retracting Head Ter Ter]

So in a world where small hand held weapons can defeat big mechs, big mechs wont be needed. In a world where huge beam weapons can hit and destroy any target, the capital unit would be Death Stars.

Think about it, with advanced targetting technology (even early 21st century tech can hit a mach 25 missile with a laser), a huge cap ship with beam weapons bigger then the attacking mechs/spacefighters would outrange and destroy any attacking force with smaller vessels/guns in open space.

I dunno about that... the ISDs in Star Wars always seem to miss an awful lot (My personal gripe on Sci-Fi: In an age of shields, ion propulsion, and laser cannons, nobody has the brains to invent a slightly better targeting system???)

Thats the part which is really unrealistic about most sci-fi cap ship battles.

Even 20th century targetting systems can aim better then whatever is aiming those beam weapons we see on screen. Heck, its just a case of putting the mouse pointer onto the target.

[1st Border Red Devil]

Isn't there a logical maximum size that mechanized units reach before they become inefficient? After all, think about tanks. Any random infantry unit with the proper equipment can quickly disable a tank, rendering all that armor useless. That was always my main problem with huge mechs... they're just friggin big targets...

As Retracting Head Ter Ter said, yes. Big mecha will always be subsceptible to a single infantryman with a rocket-propelled grenade/anti-tank rocket launcher. That may not be on the front of the mecha because of the glacis though not all mecha have that feature.

One of the easiest and most vulnerable targets will be the foot/heel/ankle area. Blow a chunk out of that and the mecha will topple over. You've just accomplished making a multi-ton paper weight.