MPAA own the internet!

[MSW]

While I don't download movies, I could see why people would. The past 5 times I've been to the movies, I left feeling like I wasted $19 (popcorn & drinks) with my dates. I don't go anymore. Everynow and then i will see something interesting, but then I'll just rent it (and some of those weren't even worth renting!). If they are "losing" mone, the studios need to make better movies. Until then, I'll just rent movies at my viewing pleasure...

vinnie

There is absolutely no way I'd ever consider buying anything to eat or drink at the theater. Again, it's a perfect example of businesses ignoring the law of supply and demand... they assume that, just because they forbid you to bring outside food or drinks into the theater, that they're forced the demand up to the point where they can charge as much as they want, instead of finding that nice point on the graph where profits are actually maximized. I mean, inisde the movie theater, a large drink is over $4. Outside, I could go to McDonald's and get value meal large-sized for $4. Inside the theater, bottled water is $3.25. Outside, I could get a case of bottled water for that price.

Um...you do realise the MPAA has NOTHING to do with the food prices at theaters.

Film companies like Tri-Star, Dreamworks, etc...foot the bill to get the movie made, they also foot the bill for TV advertiseing, as well as the costs of produceing the thousands of film prints to show in theaters...

the ticket sales at theaters pay for leaseing the film print from the distributer, as well as insurance premiums for the print in case it gets damaged...That means theaters make all thier money...money to pay the big film projection equipment electric bills, for heating, airconditioning, property taxes, employee wages and salaries, local advertiseing in newspapers and radio, buisness insurance, maintiance to the projectors and sound equipment...that comes from consession sales...

[Fort Max]

I was always taught that you get what you pay for, unfortunately we live in times where what you get isn't worth what you have to pay.

I like going to the cinema but I never buy any foood or drink specifically to keep the cost down so I can go see anothe rmovie in the not too distant future.

[mikeszekely]

While I don't download movies, I could see why people would. The past 5 times I've been to the movies, I left feeling like I wasted $19 (popcorn & drinks) with my dates. I don't go anymore. Everynow and then i will see something interesting, but then I'll just rent it (and some of those weren't even worth renting!). If they are "losing" mone, the studios need to make better movies. Until then, I'll just rent movies at my viewing pleasure...

vinnie

There is absolutely no way I'd ever consider buying anything to eat or drink at the theater. Again, it's a perfect example of businesses ignoring the law of supply and demand... they assume that, just because they forbid you to bring outside food or drinks into the theater, that they're forced the demand up to the point where they can charge as much as they want, instead of finding that nice point on the graph where profits are actually maximized. I mean, inisde the movie theater, a large drink is over $4. Outside, I could go to McDonald's and get value meal large-sized for $4. Inside the theater, bottled water is $3.25. Outside, I could get a case of bottled water for that price.

Um...you do realise the MPAA has NOTHING to do with the food prices at theaters.

Film companies like Tri-Star, Dreamworks, etc...foot the bill to get the movie made, they also foot the bill for TV advertiseing, as well as the costs of produceing the thousands of film prints to show in theaters...

the ticket sales at theaters pay for leaseing the film print from the distributer, as well as insurance premiums for the print in case it gets damaged...That means theaters make all thier money...money to pay the big film projection equipment electric bills, for heating, airconditioning, property taxes, employee wages and salaries, local advertiseing in newspapers and radio, buisness insurance, maintiance to the projectors and sound equipment...that comes from consession sales...

Yeah, I know that those prices have nothing to do with the MPAA. But justvinnie mentioned that he'd bought popcorn and drinks, and I didn't realize there was anyone left willing to pay more for their drink than their ticket. And I decided to rant, since the concession prices and the MPAA's willingness to sue instead of giving better quality/lower prices both show the same lack of good business sense.

[Cdr Fokker]

The biggest thing now is that both the MPAA and RIAA seem to be going after the means of transmission, not the offenders.

They go to shut down torrent sites and the like as a means to try to curb the piracy.

The thing is, such applications and media are used to transfer and share perfectly legitimate content. Examples: an artist puts their own work out there (as previously mentioned); in the case of torrents, normal publicly-released (free) files are shared and distributed (game patches, trailers, etc).

It's really rediculous. It's like trying to go after the postal service because people can send illegal copies of books, movies, and albums to one another through it. It's not going after the criminals - it's going after a legitimate means of information transfer, which happens to be abused by a number of individuals.

[Graham]

While I don't download movies, I could see why people would. The past 5 times I've been to the movies, I left feeling like I wasted $19 (popcorn & drinks) with my dates. I don't go anymore. Everynow and then i will see something interesting, but then I'll just rent it (and some of those weren't even worth renting!). If they are "losing" mone, the studios need to make better movies. Until then, I'll just rent movies at my viewing pleasure...

vinnie

I completely agree that the studios need to start making better films.

I used to go to the cinema about twice a month, but I haven't been for 8 months now and have no intention of seeing a movie at the theatre until SW ep III comes out. I've just seen too much crap at the cinema to have much interest in wasting money there.

These days any movie that looks remotely interesting, I'll wait and rent it and if I really like it, I'll buy the DVD.

I've never downloaded a movie or TV series or music. I know how, but don't mind paying for the DVDs/CDs. The only things I have ever downloaded are the M0 fansubs purely because they had better translations than the HK boots, but even then I still bought the original Japanese R2 DVDs.

Graham

[eugimon]

The thing that gets me is how much DVDs cost... for the most part, these are movies that already made back their money and then some in the theaters... and yet for a few hundred thousand dollars worth of work, they charge so much for the discs.

Reminds me of when CDs came out, and all the record companies swore up and down that the high price was just to mature the tech and that once that happend that CDs would be dirt cheap... well guess what, even though there was a class action lawsuit on this very matter, nothing changed.

I suppose one could just say: if you don't like it, don't buy it... and this is pretty valid... but if you look at most protest movements, there was the majority faction that played by the rules, and then there were the agitators that frequently broke the rules.

Without napster and the like, there never would have been itunes... and I think that eventually someone is going to figure out how to license divx and make it cheap and affordable.

[VF-19]

Lokitorrent topic

Some of you who may have donated to help Lokitorrent might want to read this...

[azrael]

Lokitorrent topic

Some of you who may have donated to help Lokitorrent might want to read this...

And if you read farther down that thread, you'll find out there was a lawsuit.

http://www.joegratz.net/archives/2005/02/2...awsuit-no-hoax/

It just took a while to find the case number.

[MSW]

The thing that gets me is how much DVDs cost... for the most part, these are movies that already made back their money and then some in the theaters... and yet for a few hundred thousand dollars worth of work, they charge so much for the discs.

Reminds me of when CDs came out, and all the record companies swore up and down that the high price was just to mature the tech and that once that happend that CDs would be dirt cheap... well guess what, even though there was a class action lawsuit on this very matter, nothing changed.

I suppose one could just say: if you don't like it, don't buy it... and this is pretty valid... but if you look at most protest movements, there was the majority faction that played by the rules, and then there were the agitators that frequently broke the rules.

Without napster and the like, there never would have been itunes... and I think that eventually someone is going to figure out how to license divx and make it cheap and affordable.

Then buy a BLANK DVD!

Books cost far less (even paperbacks) then what they charge for them...thing is you are not buying empty pages...you are buying the words they contain, the media, not just the medium the media is delivered upon...same thing with DVDs and CDs...Strange though that people always seem to overlook this, even though paperbacks are inching up to near DVD prices and it costs far less to manufacter a book then a DVD.

Yeah, CDs prices really havent dropped or really risen much sense being introduced well over a decade ago...but then the medium income has risen quite a bit sense then...minimum wage around here was around $2.85 when CDs were first introduced...its now $6.50 which makes that same $20 CD much more affordable.

And the whole argument about films already makeing thier money back is moot...hell, if companies were forced to limit thier profitability (edit: in the build up to fight against Germany and Japan during WWII)...we would all be liveing under nazi rule right now, without even the crap films to entertain us.

Edited February 25, 2005 by MSW

[NERV]

i dont mind paying for dvd of old good movies, but 90% of new movies coming out just suck, only movie i saw in like 2 or 3 months was hitch and it was just eh, last good mvoies int heaters were spiderman 2 and the incredibles, both of witch are worth buying

[eugimon]

The thing that gets me is how much DVDs cost... for the most part, these are movies that already made back their money and then some in the theaters... and yet for a few hundred thousand dollars worth of work, they charge so much for the discs.

Reminds me of when CDs came out, and all the record companies swore up and down that the high price was just to mature the tech and that once that happend that CDs would be dirt cheap... well guess what, even though there was a class action lawsuit on this very matter, nothing changed.

I suppose one could just say: if you don't like it, don't buy it... and this is pretty valid... but if you look at most protest movements, there was the majority faction that played by the rules, and then there were the agitators that frequently broke the rules.

Without napster and the like, there never would have been itunes... and I think that eventually someone is going to figure out how to license divx and make it cheap and affordable.

Then buy a BLANK DVD!

Books cost far less (even paperbacks) then what they charge for them...thing is you are not buying empty pages...you are buying the words they contain, the media, not just the medium the media is delivered upon...same thing with DVDs and CDs...Strange though that people always seem to overlook this, even though paperbacks are inching up to near DVD prices and it costs far less to manufacter a book then a DVD.

Yeah, CDs prices really havent dropped or really risen much sense being introduced well over a decade ago...but then the medium income has risen quite a bit sense then...minimum wage around here was around $2.85 when CDs were first introduced...its now $6.50 which makes that same $20 CD much more affordable.

And the whole argument about films already makeing thier money back is moot...hell, if companies were forced to limit thier profitability...we would all be liveing under nazi rule right now, without even the crap films to entertain us.

Sure, whatever... thinking that companies should not be able to charge whatever they want is NOTHING like Nazism or fascism... go look up what facism stood for.

If anything, the idea that companies should have limits is more akin to socialism.

You can choose to think that companies have the right to do whatever they want and consumers are powerless agianst their holy capitalistic might but this just isn't the case.

left on their own, car companies would never have install seat belts or other safety features.

We would never have had VCRs or any other form of recording equipment.

We would not have the right to reproduce content that we have bought and paid for.

Children would still be working in factories, workers would have no rights or compensation for being injured on the job... 40 hour weeks? 5 working days? Where do you think these ideas came from? From your beloved companies and corporations?

It was corporate greed that lead to the invasion of Asia by Japan, it was corporate greed that was one of the principle driving forces behind facism and the blind eye GB and the US gave Adolf when we could have stopped him.

As for your assertion that books cost less to manufacture than DVDs..

hmm, go look at the size of the average book and weight and compare it to the size and weight of a two DVD SE release... which one takes up more space? Which one weighs more?

Which one is made of a thin film of metal and covered in plastic and which one requires workers to chop down a tree, drivers to transport the tree, workers to process the tree into wood pulp, a factory to turn the wood pulp into paper, bleach the paper and then ship the paper to a printing house, workers to run the presses?

Try to guess which costs more to manufacture, has more steps in the manufacturing process and costs more to ship and takes more space to sell.

Tell me again how DVDs are more expensive to make than a book.

As for your minimum wage arguement.. try actually looking at the total cost of living, a little thing called inflation. If we're being so generous with minimum wage, why is it that there were more families with one working parent 20 years ago then there are now. Why is that the middle class is steadily shrinking and there are more people who fall at or under the poverty line?

The idea that a product should cost less after the initial release is not that new or shocking. Look at syndicated TV shows... does it cost as much to air an advertisement on a re-run as on the first airing? No. Why not, it's the same product right? Since entertainment media is valuable, shouldn't the channel be allowed to sell air time at the same rate as the first time the show is aired? Sure they can, it doesnt mean companies are going to pay that inflated rate.

In the same way, consumers who don't want to pay high prices for old media will find ways of bucking the system. Try actually reading my post before you compare me to a nazi next time... I never said that everyone should D/L divx movies.. I only said that in any given situation there will always be agitators who move to one extreme in order to force change.

And once again, if you bother to actually look at the history of entertainment companies and technology, you will see that everytime some tech came along to make life easier for consumers, companies freaked out and tried to criminalize the tech. And yet, every single time, that same technology elevated the market to a new level.

When LPs first came out, recording artists freaked out and were sure that they were all going to starve to death.

When radio came out, record companies freaked and thought they were going to go out of business.

When TV came out, radio companies freaked out.

When recordable cassettes came out, record companies freaked out, thought they were going to go out of business.

When recordable video cassettes came out, film and tv companies freaked out and thought that it would mark the end.

When MP3's came out, record companies freaked out, said that MP3s were destroying the music market.

Now the big bad is DiVX and PVR systems.

With each new technology these entertainment companies sought to limit consumer rights, restrict the technology and criminalize people who adopted the technology.

And yet, each and every single technological innovation has lead to growth and increased marketshare. But for this to happen, there had to be people who were willing to adopt the technology and agitate for change and recognition of consumer rights.

Next time you wanna call someone a nazi, try doing a little homework first.

[Gui]

Very nive, eugimon: congrats!

[Oihan]

Very nive, eugimon: congrats!

I actually happen to agree with Eugimon....

[MSW]

hmm, go look at the size of the average book and weight and compare it to the size and weight of a two DVD SE release... which one takes up more space? Which one weighs more?

Which one is made of a thin film of metal and covered in plastic and which one requires workers to chop down a tree, drivers to transport the tree, workers to process the tree into wood pulp, a factory to turn the wood pulp into paper, bleach the paper and then ship the paper to a printing house, workers to run the presses?

Try to guess which costs more to manufacture, has more steps in the manufacturing process and costs more to ship and takes more space to sell.

Tell me again how DVDs are more expensive to make than a book.

CD and DVDs require workers to source raw metal ores, ship it to refineries, refine it into alloys, ship it to disk pressing plants...plastics require oil , which must be drilled, transported, refined, transported again....then there is packageing, printing of covers, inserts, liner notes ...

A lot more goes into CD/DVDs then you think. The packageing alone uses the same printing, binding, resources as books...plus the added fluxuation of oil basied resources and transportation costs...even if they refine the manufactureing process, if the cost of materials goes up accordingly, there is no net saveings.

Yet CD prices have remained relitively the same sence introduced well over a decade ago ... yeah, the cost of liveing has increased during that same time...books have INCREASED, food has INCREASED, houseing has INCREASED....but so too your income has INCREASED...whcih allows you to not only pay your bills, but still have the same percentage of disposeable income left over for things like CDs...and sense this percentage is of a larger income, it means you have more purchaseing power for the SAME priced CD/DVDs as you had over a decade ago when first introduced.

And for the love of god, calm your ass down...I didn't call you a nazi, or even insinuate that type of infantile BS...You do not need CD/DVDs to exist...you wont starve to death without them, you won't freeze to death without them, they won't heal illness...they are a luxury...nothing more, nothing less.

[Druna Skass]

Meh, one site goes down, it won't be long till another takes it's place.

I bet the mpaa loves it when I rent movies for $5 or less, then rip them onto my hard drive.

[Gui]

Very nive, eugimon: congrats! 

I actually happen to agree with Eugimon....

I also agree with him

I meant 'nice' btw, and not 'nive': not that it means something anyway, just a typo thing...

[Radd]

And all that work to make CDs drives them up to an astounding orice of about a buck a piece, if you buy them in 50 packs. Pennies a piece at the bulk rate record labels produce them at.

Not to mention there are other, superior media out there that have either not caught on, or never given the proper chance to.

I'm sorry, but I just do not buy the story that the RIAA has been playing nice with their customers by keeping CD prices down. The cost to produce CDs has gone down, as the process to make them has been refined and become more common. Technology always goes down in price with time. It's the nature of the beast. CDs, however, have been kept artificially inflated.

[MSW]

And all that work to make CDs drives them up to an astounding orice of about a buck a piece, if you buy them in 50 packs. Pennies a piece at the bulk rate record labels produce them at.

Then buy BLANK CDs!

How many movies do you think would get made if film budgets only covered the cost of the filmstock? -zero!-

So yeah, maybe a film made back all its money in the theater, maybe even earned a decent profit too...So why is it so frickkin hard to understand when they go to sell the DVD that they want to make some money off it at the same time the Walmarts, Best Buys, K-Marts, Suncoasts of the world are profiting from thier work? Why is that such an evil thing?

Hell, Macross made back its money and then some in Japan...and for a small in comparison one time fee Harmony Gold has been exclusively makeing a fortune off Shoji and company's work...and we all bitch about that!

[Stamen0083]

The thing that gets me is how much DVDs cost... for the most part, these are movies that already made back their money and then some in the theaters... and yet for a few hundred thousand dollars worth of work, they charge so much for the discs.

Movies, books, music, etc... don't cost a lot of money because of the media it's printed on. All things considered, those things cost a few pennies to make, at most.

What we are paying for is the intellectual property, the printed words, the filmed sequences, the recorded music. This is something authors, film makers, recording artists live on. They make these things to make money, which is the same reason any of us go to work everyday for.

I won't comment on the pricing structure, but I will remind people that there are DVD's out there that cost $29.99, and then there are DVD's out there that cost $7.99. There are CD's out there that cost $19.99, and then there are CD's out there that cost $1.99.

[NERV]

And all that work to make CDs drives them up to an astounding orice of about a buck a piece, if you buy them in 50 packs. Pennies a piece at the bulk rate record labels produce them at.

Then buy BLANK CDs!

How many movies do you think would get made if film budgets only covered the cost of the filmstock? -zero!-

So yeah, maybe a film made back all its money in the theater, maybe even earned a decent profit too...So why is it so frickkin hard to understand when they go to sell the DVD that they want to make some money off it at the same time the Walmarts, Best Buys, K-Marts, Suncoasts of the world are profiting from thier work? Why is that such an evil thing?

Hell, Macross made back its money and then some in Japan...and for a small in comparison one time fee Harmony Gold has been exclusively makeing a fortune off Shoji and company's work...and we all bitch about that!

but youwere saying that dvds cost more to make than books, then why can you buy a blank dvd for less than $1 but a blank notebook of low quality paper is $3 while real books are made of higher quality materials

[Radd]

And all that work to make CDs drives them up to an astounding orice of about a buck a piece, if you buy them in 50 packs. Pennies a piece at the bulk rate record labels produce them at.

Then buy BLANK CDs!

How many movies do you think would get made if film budgets only covered the cost of the filmstock? -zero!-

So yeah, maybe a film made back all its money in the theater, maybe even earned a decent profit too...So why is it so frickkin hard to understand when they go to sell the DVD that they want to make some money off it at the same time the Walmarts, Best Buys, K-Marts, Suncoasts of the world are profiting from thier work? Why is that such an evil thing?

Hell, Macross made back its money and then some in Japan...and for a small in comparison one time fee Harmony Gold has been exclusively makeing a fortune off Shoji and company's work...and we all bitch about that!

You're missing the point. Do you even know how much it costs to buy a CD in stores these days? Do you know how many they sell? Do you know how much of that goes to the actual creators of the music, while how much is kept by the record labels.

I've nothing against profit. They are welcome to profit from their work, but many people are not going to pay for something they do not see as worth the price, especially when that price is so inflated from the cost to produce not just the CDs themselves, but recording the music, promotion, and all that.

What if the price of pizza was artificially inflated to $50 for a small pizza? Wouldn't you be less inclined to order pizza? What if you had to pay double or triple the current price of paperback books? You like paying 15 bucks for a single issue of a comic book?

[MSW]

You're missing the point.  Do you even know how much it costs to buy a CD in stores these days? Do you know how many they sell? Do you know how much of that goes to the actual creators of the music, while how much is kept by the record labels.

No, I get the point...you see those stores need to make money from selling CDs and DVDs too...cut the CD/DVD price, and you arn't just reduceing the money going to the RIAA and MPAA...but the retailer has to bite the bullet too...Sure the Wal-Marts of the world can soak up the loss through other areas, but the smaller specialty shops can't...If you do some research you will find those most opposed to CD/DVD price cuts to be these retailers; NOT the RIAA & MPAA.

I've nothing against profit. They are welcome to profit from their work, but many people are not going to pay for something they do not see as worth the price, especially when that price is so inflated from the cost to produce not just the CDs themselves, but recording the music, promotion, and all that.

What if the price of pizza was artificially inflated to $50 for a small pizza? Wouldn't you be less inclined to order pizza? What if you had to pay double or triple the current price of paperback books? You like paying 15 bucks for a single issue of a comic book?

You already pay at least ten times the manufactureing cost for a hardcover book, and for paperbacks nearly twentyfive times...Which is pretty much in scale to CD/DVD prices...hell, MOST products you buy have production costs between one tenth and one twentyfifth the purchase price, and when you consider fad products (more specificly namebrand clothes and such) the end consumer price can be over a hundred times the production cost.

Which brings to mind my teenage cousin, whom bitches about not haveing the money to by CDs - and blaims the greedy recording industry for his plight - while blowing all his money on expensive Tommy Hilfinger clothes and Nike shoes

[MSW]

but youwere saying that dvds cost more to make than books, then why can you buy a blank dvd for less than $1 but a blank notebook of low quality paper is $3 while real books are made of higher quality materials

What the heck are you talking about? You can get a stack of 20 collage ruled 100-page notebooks from places like Staples and Sams Club for $10...and even then the retailer is makeing money from the sale.

A typical paperback book, like the hundreds of romance novels out there, costs an average of $.30 sells for around $7...larger softcover books, like say any one of the Dummies guides, costs around $1 (larger pages, better quality paper) and sells for around $18...as with CDs and DVD production costs per each are dependant on number produced...heck, read this ( http://www.fonerbooks.com/pod.htm ) talks about the costs involved in small scale Print on Demand publishing...compareable to self published comic books, CDs and DVDs.

[Oihan]

Very nive, eugimon: congrats! 

I actually happen to agree with Eugimon....

I also agree with him

I meant 'nice' btw, and not 'nive': not that it means something anyway, just a typo thing...

Ah...I should have figured it was a typo...I don't know what I was thinking at the time...oops.

Edited February 27, 2005 by Oihan

[Oihan]

You're missing the point.  Do you even know how much it costs to buy a CD in stores these days? Do you know how many they sell? Do you know how much of that goes to the actual creators of the music, while how much is kept by the record labels.

No, I get the point...you see those stores need to make money from selling CDs and DVDs too...cut the CD/DVD price, and you arn't just reduceing the money going to the RIAA and MPAA...but the retailer has to bite the bullet too...Sure the Wal-Marts of the world can soak up the loss through other areas, but the smaller specialty shops can't...If you do some research you will find those most opposed to CD/DVD price cuts to be these retailers; NOT the RIAA & MPAA.

I've nothing against profit. They are welcome to profit from their work, but many people are not going to pay for something they do not see as worth the price, especially when that price is so inflated from the cost to produce not just the CDs themselves, but recording the music, promotion, and all that.

What if the price of pizza was artificially inflated to $50 for a small pizza? Wouldn't you be less inclined to order pizza? What if you had to pay double or triple the current price of paperback books? You like paying 15 bucks for a single issue of a comic book?

You already pay at least ten times the manufactureing cost for a hardcover book, and for paperbacks nearly twentyfive times...Which is pretty much in scale to CD/DVD prices...hell, MOST products you buy have production costs between one tenth and one twentyfifth the purchase price, and when you consider fad products (more specificly namebrand clothes and such) the end consumer price can be over a hundred times the production cost.

Which brings to mind my teenage cousin, whom bitches about not haveing the money to by CDs - and blaims the greedy recording industry for his plight - while blowing all his money on expensive Tommy Hilfinger clothes and Nike shoes

Then buy BLANK CDs!

How many movies do you think would get made if film budgets only covered the cost of the filmstock? -zero!-

So yeah, maybe a film made back all its money in the theater, maybe even earned a decent profit too...So why is it so frickkin hard to understand when they go to sell the DVD that they want to make some money off it at the same time the Walmarts, Best Buys, K-Marts, Suncoasts of the world are profiting from thier work? Why is that such an evil thing?

Hell, Macross made back its money and then some in Japan...and for a small in comparison one time fee Harmony Gold has been exclusively makeing a fortune off Shoji and company's work...and we all bitch about that!

So just because they sell you crap at a certain price that there's nothing wrong with paying it? Like Radd had said...if they changed the price of a small pizza to $50...are you just gonna sit there and accept it and pay an arm and a leg for it? If that's the case, I'll be sure to start a pizza place in your area and charge you that $50 for a small pizza...or $75 for a medium...or $100 for a large. I mean...you're willing to pay such a rediculous amount...wtf not?! I need to make a living too, don't I?

Edited February 27, 2005 by Oihan

[Radd]

I do agree with part of what you're saying, MSW. If you don't like the price, then don't buy it. I, myself, reserve my money for those things I truly do want, and like to support.

I don't like the prices being charged for audio CDs, and so my purchases of those items are far and few between, when I buy any at all.

I also don't like the DVD prices in Japan. I don't want to pay $50 for a single episode of an OVA. So I don't buy anime from Japan, except in those rare cases where it's something I really want to support and cannot get any other way. If Geneon, ADV, and the rest charged those prices domestically, I wouldn't buy anime DVDs here in America, either.

[Jedi Knight]

LMAO!!!

Damn!!! There are some FUNNY things posted in here!!!! Even the sarcastic coomments are funny.

While reading people talk about buying blank cd/dvd media, I remembered a website that I stumbled across a few days ago. I didn't look into it, but the name was frackin' hilarious: The Coaster Factory

It's actually a useful site, but I have my own "coaster factory" right here at home - well, I used to, anyway.

[Kyubi]

Anyone hear about Warner Bros. deciding to sell $2-$3 DVDs in China to combat piracy? First saw it on doom9 and then heard it on CNN.

Sounds like they could still turn a profit, save on attorney fees and keep the consumer more content by dropping prices to reasonable levels.

[MSW]

So just because they sell you crap at a certain price that there's nothing wrong with paying it?

Why not?...People have been buying $100,000+ Ferraris and Lambos for decades now...its not like those cars cost that much to make...hell you could duplicate the performance with a modded Mustang or Camaro, and still spend less then $30k...but no one has been bitching that Ferrari has been inflateing prices...just like no one has been bitching that Tommy clothes or Nike shoes are priced too high either...

Like Radd had said...if they changed the price of a small pizza to $50...are you just gonna sit there and accept it and pay an arm and a leg for it? If that's the case, I'll be sure to start a pizza place in your area and charge you that $50 for a small pizza...or $75 for a medium...or $100 for a large. I mean...you're willing to pay such a rediculous amount...wtf not?! I need to make a living too, don't I?

If I thought the pizza was worth it, and had both the moneyand desire to buy it...yeah, I would buy a $50 or even $150 pizza...just as if I had the money and desire to buy a Ferrari that I thought was worth the asking price...Just as if I had the money and desire to buy a CD/DVD that I thought was worth the asking price....If I don't have the money or the desire, or think the product is worth the price...I won't buy it, end of story.

And yeah, I happen to think most DVDs are worth $20...doesn't mean I buy them all...but for the just the ticket price for you and your girlfriend to see the film in theaters, you can watch the film hundreds of times on DVD, pause it, fastforward, rewind, freezeframe, watch the extras, listen to the audio commentary...overall you get a much better value for the money then watching it in theaters.

But as I pointed out before with books...even posted a link that spells out printing costs and everything...DVDs and CDs are no more overinflated pricewise as mass printed books are...and they aren't nearly as inflated as fad clothing, cars, even toys...even Radd admits I have some agreeable points...bottom line is always the same...don't like it, don't buy it.

Anyone hear about Warner Bros. deciding to sell $2-$3 DVDs in China to combat piracy? First saw it on doom9 and then heard it on CNN.

Sounds like they could still turn a profit, save on attorney fees and keep the consumer more content by dropping prices to reasonable levels

Yeah read more about it here:

http://www.forbes.com/business/feeds/ap/20.../ap1845443.html

They are useing a state run printer and distribution system...meaning no "middle-man" distributer and retailer to give a share of the sale too...won't happen here, or in other freemarkets, at least not without a substansial change in commerce laws

[Oihan]

So just because they sell you crap at a certain price that there's nothing wrong with paying it?

Why not?...People have been buying $100,000+ Ferraris and Lambos for decades now...its not like those cars cost that much to make...hell you could duplicate the performance with a modded Mustang or Camaro, and still spend less then $30k...but no one has been bitching that Ferrari has been inflateing prices...just like no one has been bitching that Tommy clothes or Nike shoes are priced too high either...

Like Radd had said...if they changed the price of a small pizza to $50...are you just gonna sit there and accept it and pay an arm and a leg for it? If that's the case, I'll be sure to start a pizza place in your area and charge you that $50 for a small pizza...or $75 for a medium...or $100 for a large. I mean...you're willing to pay such a rediculous amount...wtf not?! I need to make a living too, don't I?

If I thought the pizza was worth it, and had both the moneyand desire to buy it...yeah, I would buy a $50 or even $150 pizza...just as if I had the money and desire to buy a Ferrari that I thought was worth the asking price...Just as if I had the money and desire to buy a CD/DVD that I thought was worth the asking price....If I don't have the money or the desire, or think the product is worth the price...I won't buy it, end of story.

And yeah, I happen to think most DVDs are worth $20...doesn't mean I buy them all...but for the just the ticket price for you and your girlfriend to see the film in theaters, you can watch the film hundreds of times on DVD, pause it, fastforward, rewind, freezeframe, watch the extras, listen to the audio commentary...overall you get a much better value for the money then watching it in theaters.

But as I pointed out before with books...even posted a link that spells out printing costs and everything...DVDs and CDs are no more overinflated pricewise as mass printed books are...and they aren't nearly as inflated as fad clothing, cars, even toys...even Radd admits I have some agreeable points...bottom line is always the same...don't like it, don't buy it.

Anyone hear about Warner Bros. deciding to sell $2-$3 DVDs in China to combat piracy? First saw it on doom9 and then heard it on CNN.

Sounds like they could still turn a profit, save on attorney fees and keep the consumer more content by dropping prices to reasonable levels

Yeah read more about it here:

http://www.forbes.com/business/feeds/ap/20.../ap1845443.html

They are useing a state run printer and distribution system...meaning no "middle-man" distributer and retailer to give a share of the sale too...won't happen here, or in other freemarkets, at least not without a substansial change in commerce laws

You kept mentioning that if you thought it was worth buying and you had the money that you'd go out and buy it. That's where I'm and I'm sure a few others are coming from. I for one don't think a lot of the sh*t they produce is worth buying. If there's one song on a CD I like and I've heard the rest of the songs from someone else...no way in hell I'm gonna go buy that CD just to hear that one song. It's not worth it.

[MSW]

You kept mentioning that if you thought it was worth buying and you had the money that you'd go out and buy it. That's where I'm and I'm sure a few others are coming from. I for one don't think a lot of the sh*t they produce is worth buying. If there's one song on a CD I like and I've heard the rest of the songs from someone else...no way in hell I'm gonna go buy that CD just to hear that one song. It's not worth it.

Then whats the problem? If its crap, and ain't worth buying...don't buy it.

If they can sell a shine up a turd to someone for whatever price...more power to them...it ain't hurting me none...no reason to demand they lower thier prices, cause if I think its crap...I ain't buying, couldn't even get me to take it for free...

there is an old saying...Money talks, bullsh*t walks...no matter how much you voice your opinion on the DVD/CD priceing issue...its what you say with your money that gets thier attention.

I just hate seeing the same ill formed arguments over and over again...you are on the internet, its a fantastic research tool...use it.

[Stamen0083]

Hey, don't forget the problem of when something is not crap, and the contents is something I want, but the price is just too much that I cannot afford it.

For example, I want the PG Strike Gundam kit, but it costs so much that I cannot afford it. If the price is lower, I would buy it in a heartbeat.

[Radd]

I just hate seeing the same ill formed arguments over and over again...you are on the internet, its a fantastic research tool...use it.

Wich ill-formed arguments? People here have been saying that they simply do not believe CDs are worth the prices being asked.

[MSW]

Hey, don't forget the problem of when something is not crap, and the contents is something I want, but the price is just too much that I cannot afford it.

Is it worth the asking price to you...or is it that you just don't have the money right now?

If its not worth the price to you...then why even bother with it...and if you still want it but won't pay the asking price, then watch for it on Ebay (and only bid what you are willing to pay...no need to get caught up in some foolish sniper war with people whom are willing to pay more then you) find it second hand through garage/liquidation sales...there are legitament ways....I've got 3 Yamato Escaflowne toys (huge Escaflowne fan), paid about $60 for all off them because I didn't think they were worth much more then $20 a piece...yeah, I had to wait till after the hubbub of thier initial release, as well as shop around to buy them at that discounted price...but I got what I wanted at the price I was willing to pay (one still in the sealed box, one in dragon mode, the other posed in humanoid mode)

For example, I want the PG Strike Gundam kit, but it costs so much that I cannot afford it. If the price is lower, I would buy it in a heartbeat.

wierd...we go from $20 CD/DVDs to $60 model kits containing no more then $3 in plastic ... anyway, If its worth it to you...why not save up to buy it, sell off unwanted crap, donate blood, whatever...where there is a will, there is a way.

Which ill-formed arguments? People here have been saying that they simply do not believe CDs are worth the prices being asked.

stuff like this:

the mpaa and riaa are both bullshit, movies have steadily been decreasing in length and quality while ticket prices and advirtisements have been going up, and with music, there is no way that a cd cost more than a cassette, when cassettes were dominant they wer elike $8, they promised that CD prices would go down, they went down a little but they should have gone down cheaper than cassettes since they are cheaper to make

Cassettes can be cheaper to make then CDs...You can find music cassette manufactureing quotes online in the nieghborhood of $.38 for a run of 3000 (and this for a company that makes money doing this...meaning the actual cost is less)...and back in the cassette heyday, on a typical multimillion piece run, you are talking cassette production prices in the $.09 range...yeah there are more parts in a cassette, but the plastic is MUCH cheaper then that in a CD, not to mention magnetic tape costs less too...but then too, when cassettes were dominate they sold for more like $10 to $12...wasn't until the consumer switch to CDs and retailers dealing with the mass overstocked cassettes that prices began to drop.

[mikeszekely]

You kept mentioning that if you thought it was worth buying and you had the money that you'd go out and buy it. That's where I'm and I'm sure a few others are coming from. I for one don't think a lot of the sh*t they produce is worth buying. If there's one song on a CD I like and I've heard the rest of the songs from someone else...no way in hell I'm gonna go buy that CD just to hear that one song. It's not worth it.

Then whats the problem? If its crap, and ain't worth buying...don't buy it.

If they can sell a shine up a turd to someone for whatever price...more power to them...it ain't hurting me none...no reason to demand they lower thier prices, cause if I think its crap...I ain't buying, couldn't even get me to take it for free...

there is an old saying...Money talks, bullsh*t walks...no matter how much you voice your opinion on the DVD/CD priceing issue...its what you say with your money that gets thier attention.

I just hate seeing the same ill formed arguments over and over again...you are on the internet, its a fantastic research tool...use it.

But here's my main beef... these companies that are charging excessive ammounts for CDs and DVDs (actually, I'm okay for $20 for most DVDs, although I do believe that anime is too expensive). And many of us here aren't making idle threats... we aren't buying the crap they're shoveling at us. They're not pulling in the kind of dollars they want, so what do they do? They blame pirates, they blame consumers, they blame everyone except themselves, when basic economics tells them that just because you charge more, doesn't mean you make more profit.

If the MPAA and the members of RIAA were charging unreasonable prices, then realizing that people aren't going to pay or just being content with what they're bringing it (which is still probably plenty), I'm sure most of us would be content to just not pay for their overpriced crap. It's their piss-poor attitude and willingness to blame everyone but themselves that I think most of us are really calling them on. Afterall, to continue to use your examples, you don't hear Nike bitching that they made $30 million less than they wanted because people who don't feel like paying $120 for a pair of shoes are buying K-Mart Kickers instead.

Edited February 28, 2005 by mikeszekely