Shaggydog Posted March 4, 2004 Posted March 4, 2004 how is it pointless? The only reason people are paying 80 for the damn thing is because its the only alpha series of toys coming out anytime soon. EVERYONE on this board WANTS to pay LESS for this thing. I dont see how paying a more reasonable price is flawed. No. *I* want to pay more, dammit. FLAWED!
Blaine23 Posted March 4, 2004 Posted March 4, 2004 how is it pointless? The only reason people are paying 80 for the damn thing is because its the only alpha series of toys coming out anytime soon. EVERYONE on this board WANTS to pay LESS for this thing. I dont see how paying a more reasonable price is flawed. No. *I* want to pay more, dammit. FLAWED! Cool... preorder one from me and I'll sell it to you for an even $350.
Mechafan Posted March 4, 2004 Posted March 4, 2004 how is it pointless? The only reason people are paying 80 for the damn thing is because its the only alpha series of toys coming out anytime soon. EVERYONE on this board WANTS to pay LESS for this thing. I dont see how paying a more reasonable price is flawed. No. *I* want to pay more, dammit. FLAWED! Cool... preorder one from me and I'll sell it to you for an even $350. $325 and that is my final answer.
Jasonc Posted March 4, 2004 Posted March 4, 2004 These price arguments will go on forever. What I suggest is buying the first one if you can afford it or can find it cheaper. Than, if you like it enough, get the rest, if not, simple solution. The truth is that everyone is stating what the price should be and nobody has handled one of these yet. I have, and I don't think I still have the right to say what it's worth. We can all make assumptions and be under the impression that we know what we're talking about, but truth be, we just need to wait and see what type of product we're dealing with before we make judgements on price. For some, $80 is a lot, for others, it's not really much. It's all relative to each individual. Toynami probably did research to find the best price they'd be able to get for this toy. You can't say they're wrong for doing so either. If I had a business of producing toys and had an opportunity to make extra money, I would too. So does just about every company out there. Many try to push the profit margin so that they can make the best profit, and at the same time, keep the masses wanting it at that price. That's our nation and that's how many businesses are ran. I'd love to see a lower price like the rest of you, and if I can find it cheaper, I'll definitely go there. How bout you guys?
mechaninac Posted March 4, 2004 Posted March 4, 2004 (edited) The real reason HG/Toynami will charge $80.0 US for their Alpha MPC is simply that they can. When you have a monopoly on a product, as HG has on any toy related to Mospeada, you can set the price you want to charge; limited production, eager fan base, and no competition give them the leeway to do so. That's just simple Business 101. HG/Toynami are banking on their product being good enough to sell well so that their investment will pay off, hence the high price...amortize the tooling fast and reap the profits afterwards; however, should the toy bomb on the market place, either because not enough people think it's worth what they think the market will bear, or because they just plain suck, then the price will drop as retailers try to dump their inventory of an unpopular item. In the end, this is just plain old Capitalism at work...the buyer will eventually decide what the product is worth and everything will shift accordingly. Edited March 7, 2004 by mechaninac
91WhiskeyM6 Posted March 7, 2004 Posted March 7, 2004 (edited) It wont be successful Why? because your average American kid has never seen Robocrap. Take Transformers Armada, Beast Wars, RiD, and Energon for instance. Their toy lines sell cuz there's a cartoon for the mass. HG's hasn't produced anything in years and Robotech 2004 may be too late to attract the kids for a good net profit FY 2004. It's also on cable rather than FoxKids. They should have waited after the cartoon started airing. Also, your 80's kid knows that the new MPC Alphas aren't the same toy/quality as the Legioss and not worth the $80 HG is charging. Not only that, you got the GI Joe, TF, and MOTU toy lines trying to lure those 30 year olds. Poor economy and dying 80s nostalgia? I'd rather buy the original scaled Legioss off Ebay even if it costs me hundreds. That Alpha POS ain't gonna persuade me. 15000 Scott Bernard Alphas eh? Toynami will be lucky to sell 5000. That's business 101. Edited March 7, 2004 by 91WhiskeyM6
trueblueeyes Posted March 7, 2004 Posted March 7, 2004 (edited) Your 80's kid knows that the new MPC Alphas aren't the same toy/quality as the Legioss and not worth the $80 HG is charging. I'd rather buy the original scaled Legioss off Ebay even if it costs me hundreds. That Alpha POS ain't gonna persuade me. I agree with you on the price of the MPC Alpha. It truly is not worth eighty dollars. That said, I have to take issue with your comment about the original Gakken Legioss toys. As the proud owner of all 1/35 scale Alphas (red, green, and blue) , I'll be the first to admit they are big, chunky, and not very accurate. Now the MPC Alpha certainly isn't perfect, but it *is* a hell of a lot more accurate to the line art and animation than the Gakken toys ever were. Still doesn't mean I'd trade my Gakken for one of them though! It wont be successful. Why? because your average American kid has never seen Robocrap. Take Transformers Armada, Beast Wars, RiD, and Energon for instance. Their toy lines sell cuz there's a cartoon for the mass. HG's hasn't produced anything in years and Robotech 2004 may be too late to attract the kids for a good net profit FY 2004. It's also on cable rather than FoxKids. They should have waited after the cartoon started airing. But don't you see? At eighty dollars a pop they *aren't* aimed at children. They are aimed at adult collectors who have a nostalgia for the show and for the mecha. Mospeada does have a pretty big fan base. Certainly not as big as Macross but the fans are there. Not to mention the Robotech fans...old and new. These people want an Alpha/Legioss and unfortunately Toynami and the MPC Alpha is the only game in town. It is too small (if a tread isn't produced) and it is over-priced but it will sell. At least I belive it will. Guess we will have to wait and see. Just my $.02. Melissa Edited March 7, 2004 by trueblueeyes
legios Posted March 7, 2004 Posted March 7, 2004 Also, your 80's kid knows that the new MPC Alphas aren't the same toy/quality as the Legioss and not worth the $80 HG is charging. That's exactly the type of anti-Harmony Gold diatribe that I have seen on this website for about 2 years straight. I also own the Gakken Legioss (the blue and the green), and they are so far from the line art and show that it's comical. In addition, the wings and LEX's break if you look at them wrong. Add the facts that the pilot is not removable, there's no cyclone, and that the missle bays do not open, and there is NOOOOOOO WAY that anyone can say that the Gakken is a superior toy than what we've seen of the MPC. Of course, I'd rather give up a kidney than part with either of my Gakken's. Man, this farm market was selling them at like 15 bucks a pop when I was in 7th grade ('87). God I wish I had bought 'em all...but I digress. The point is that people on this site just hate anything made by Harmony Gold or Toynami, and I for one am quite sick of it. If it's a good toy, I buy it. (Yamato's, Superposeables, Revell models). If it sucks I don't (VF MPC's, Bandai's, etc.)
91WhiskeyM6 Posted March 7, 2004 Posted March 7, 2004 (edited) Your 80's kid knows that the new MPC Alphas aren't the same toy/quality as the Legioss and not worth the $80 HG is charging. I'd rather buy the original scaled Legioss off Ebay even if it costs me hundreds. That Alpha POS ain't gonna persuade me. I agree with you on the price of the MPC Alpha. It truly is not worth eighty dollars. That said, I have to take issue with your comment about the original Gakken Legioss toys. As the proud owner of all 1/35 scale Alphas (red, green, and blue) , I'll be the first to admit they are big, chunky, and not very accurate. Now the MPC Alpha certainly isn't perfect, but it *is* a hell of a lot more accurate to the line art and animation than the Gakken toys ever were. Still doesn't mean I'd trade my Gakken for one of them though! It wont be successful. Why? because your average American kid has never seen Robocrap. Take Transformers Armada, Beast Wars, RiD, and Energon for instance. Their toy lines sell cuz there's a cartoon for the mass. HG's hasn't produced anything in years and Robotech 2004 may be too late to attract the kids for a good net profit FY 2004. It's also on cable rather than FoxKids. They should have waited after the cartoon started airing. But don't you see? At eighty dollars a pop they *aren't* aimed at children. They are aimed at adult collectors who have a nostalgia for the show and for the mecha. Mospeada does have a pretty big fan base. Certainly not as big as Macross but the fans are there. Not to mention the Robotech fans...old and new. These people want an Alpha/Legioss and unfortunately Toynami and the MPC Alpha is the only game in town. It is too small (if a tread isn't produced) and it is over-priced but it will sell. At least I belive it will. Guess we will have to wait and see. Just my $.02. Melissa Targeted at adults? this isn't Japan we're talking about here where old school fans can appreciate Valks and the Legioss and buy them like pre-dot-com-bust stocks. There are more adults in Japan that are more robot crazy compared to American adult collectors. In America, you got to sell to the kids to make a profit. Not to adult collectors. Yamato is probably kicking ass in profits selling to adult collectors over there. Kids here don't really care about Alphas/Veritechs. Sad to say(not really), but Transformers kicks Robotech's ass here in the USA. Producing 15000 toys targeted at American adult collectors? It's no wonder I see MPC VF-1 Veritechs toys gathering dust on the shelves at various toy stores. Some Robotech fans we got here in America. How sucessful is that 5000 limited edition YF-1R MPC again compared to the Japanese 5000(?) produced 1/48 Low-Viz? Japanese(and the rest of the world) will buy the Valk compared to the Americans buying a proprietary MPC. The YF-1R is still in stock @ valkyrie-exchange or BBTS for $80. The Low-Viz is twice more expensive and it's GONE. Where are all those Low-Viz being sold to? Last I checked, only 150 were bought by members of MacrossWorld(a majority of the members such as myself aren't Japanese). You can bet non of those clowns at Robocrap.com bought any(those that don't know about this site). The Japanese/Asian adult collectors bought the majority of those Valks. As for the quality? Okay, they have more detail, but it's so.....small for $80 and it's not like it's imported or anything? I can atleast ding Toynami for the size and price. Like I said, I'll choose the Gakken anyday. Edited March 7, 2004 by 91WhiskeyM6
91WhiskeyM6 Posted March 7, 2004 Posted March 7, 2004 The point is that people on this site just hate anything made by Harmony Gold or Toynami, and I for one am quite sick of it. If it's a good toy, I buy it. (Yamato's, Superposeables, Revell models). If it sucks I don't (VF MPC's, Bandai's, etc.) Oh freaking well...Harmony Gold must buuuuuurnn in fiery death
mechaninac Posted March 7, 2004 Posted March 7, 2004 (edited) It's no wonder I see MPC VF-1 Veritechs toys gathering dust on the shelves at various toy stores. Some Robotech fans we got here in America. Wrong, the whole MPC line are targeted at people who were fans of the show way back in 1985 and beyond; that would make the average buyer somewhere between 27 and 35 years old, and would make any sales to kids a plus, but not the make-it-or-break-it proposition on a 15K p/unit run. Hell, the first MPC started to sell out untill the unfavorable reviews started popping up all over the internet, and the consumer voted with their money as they always do. The reason that the MPC VF series are languishing is simply due to competition...there's that strange concept of capitalism again...there are Bandais, Banprestos, transformable kits, Hasegawas, and, of course, two lines of Yamatos. The market is currently saturated with Valkyries, and the consumer will invariably gravitate to the better product regardless of price. That's exactly the type of anti-Harmony Gold diatribe that I have seen on this website for about 2 years straight Agreed. Frankly, I think that some people just react to anything Robotech/HG/Toynami the way a vampire reacts to a cross or garlic. It is completely emotion driven. Edited March 8, 2004 by mechaninac
CoryHolmes Posted March 8, 2004 Posted March 8, 2004 That's exactly the type of anti-Harmony Gold diatribe that I have seen on this website for about 2 years straight Agreed. Frankly, I think that some people just react to anything Robotech/HG/Toynami the way a vampire reacts to a cross or garlic. It is completely imotion driven. Welcome to MacrossWorld, a place of good news, good information, and the largest conglomeration of Elitist Macross Fans around. To those of us that actually *gasp* enjoy Robotech as as we do parts of the Macross universe, we're definitly in the bad on this site. Get used to the derogitory comments, blatant hounding, and out-and-out insulting by some of the more vocal members. Any new updates about the release date or pictures of the Alpha fighters?
gerwalk25 Posted March 8, 2004 Posted March 8, 2004 the first MPC started to sell out untill the unfavorable reviews started popping up all over the internet, and the consumer voted with their money as they always do. A friend bought the Rik Vf-1J MPC and I got to "fondle" the thing a fortunate work of Toynami uncraftsmanship I took my opinion on the RT.com fourm and got booted off. The box/bookcase is a fassad to hide the fact that the MPC is whack. I'll reserve my judgement on the Alpha MPC and the price point changes from the msrp $80.00 to a nice $20.00.
Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0 Posted March 8, 2004 Posted March 8, 2004 golden rule of thumb..... wait 2 months after release and buy when price drops9companies gotta wai2 months...wait i mena retailers) those offering free shipping on these are usually the ones who drop prices after 2 months., BTW also wait for the supposed CAnnon fodder one... I think the green ones goin on discount first boys.
Jasonc Posted March 8, 2004 Posted March 8, 2004 (edited) I'm pretty sure it will be successful. Finding about 15,000 fans of the series willing to pay $80 for this toy shouldn't be too difficult. Look at the number of registered peeps at RT.com. Price has been dealt with and we all question the large price for the item, but to argue whether or not it will be successful, that's another issue. Here's every supply/demand dilema. Do we sell cheap so a lot of people may buy, but think that the cheap price means cheap toy? Or do we sell higher so that people think it's a high quality item and worth the price? Toynami, not HG has set the price, and we can only guess how they came up with the price. I'm sure that the two scenarios of price to supply/demand has a medium, and that they tried to come up with that for this item. As always and as many have stated, the price will adjust according to the actual sales once the toy is released. I believe Toynami will make their money on this item, because they are the only ones making it. It's not a monopoly, they're just the only ones licensed to make specialty items of this kind. Monopolies are companies that have total control of a certain industry, not a specific item. Example, GTE for a long time had exclusive control over various areas here in L.A. years ago, and no other phone companies could come in. That's a monopoly when you control the industry, in that case, it was private and local communication. Our power lies in the fact that we can control what the end value of this item will be. Hold out if you want, otherwise, if your demand is very high, buy it when it comes out. Either way, my opinion, and it's just my opinion, is that it will do quite well when it's released. I did forget to mention that I am 29, and these products are aimed at fans and older collectors first, as I don't see 10 year-olds entering their credit card info for preorders. Edited March 8, 2004 by Jasonc
scand Posted March 8, 2004 Posted March 8, 2004 It wont be successful Why? because your average American kid has never seen Robocrap. Funny thing, I was in Best Buy the other day checking out the anime section. There were two kids about 7-10 years old begging there parents to buy them robotech DVD's. I just had to laugh.
mechaninac Posted March 8, 2004 Posted March 8, 2004 (edited) I believe Toynami will make their money on this item, because they are the only ones making it. It's not a monopoly, they're just the only ones licensed to make specialty items of this kind. Monopolies are companies that have total control of a certain industry, not a specific item Semantics. Perhaps the word monopoly was misused, but the point is still a valid one: when it comes to Mospeada related toy items, Toynami is the ONLY game in town; if you want a new Legioss/Alpha transformable toy, the MPCs are the only choice other than outrageously priced MIB Gakkens with less then half the features (only things going for those are their size and nostalgia factor). HG/Toynami will charge whatever they think they can to maximize their profit margin. I don't begrudge them for doing it, it's a free market and they are entitled to it. I agree that this MPC series will most likely do well, or at least much better than the Veritech series, and will hold their value much more than those; though I do believe that if the Stick/Scott's Alpha has anywhere near the same QC/design/engineering/assembly problem and bad reviews as Rick's FV-1J than the bottom will drop...fast. That being said, I have pre-ordered the first Alpha on the assumption that it will be a hit and sell out, and, if not reasonably priced, at least reasonably engineered and finished, and nobody will know that until they hit the shelves. I will, however, wait on the subsequent releases to drop in price if the first one proves to be a disappointment. I know Toynami's track record is not the best thus far, but I'll give them the benefit of the doubt this time around; besides, I want the Alpha MPCs to do well so that they will have reason to produce the hinted-at linkable Tread/Beta bomber. Edited March 11, 2004 by mechaninac
Jasonc Posted March 8, 2004 Posted March 8, 2004 I agree with you, Mechaninac! I have mine on preorder, and as I have played with the first final production piece, it will be a great toy. Of course, we'll still have to see how the mass produced volumes will look. There shouldn't be too much difference. Yes, it's a joint venture with Toynami/HG and yes, I know many here hate HG for whatever reasons, but I hope it does very well so I can see a Beta toy in my lifetime.
mechaninac Posted March 8, 2004 Posted March 8, 2004 Man, I hope that your positive experience with the final pre-production sample translates into the mass release version. I'll be keeping my fingers crossed. I think most people around here, who are not Macross purists with an ax to grind about HG's "butchery" of original source animes, soured on Toynami/HG not so much because of the inferior quality of the MPC VFs, but because they blocked the mass importation of all Macross related items, thereby causing US and World wide fans (Asia rim excluded) to have to pay huge premiums to specialty importers in order to aquire coveted items. I remember when the M+ toys were going to be available domesticaly through Toycom for around $40.00 retail and HG killed those hopes. That's where I believe most of the animosity comes from...their hubris in claiming, and winning, ownership to a property that they had no hand in creating.
Mechafan Posted March 8, 2004 Posted March 8, 2004 I have played with the first final production piece, it will be a great toy. Of course, we'll still have to see how the mass produced volumes will look. There shouldn't be too much difference. Did it have good joints and seem as nice as the 1/48 Imai model kit?
rocco_77 Posted March 10, 2004 Posted March 10, 2004 I have played with the first final production piece, it will be a great toy. Of course, we'll still have to see how the mass produced volumes will look. There shouldn't be too much difference. Did it have good joints and seem as nice as the 1/48 Imai model kit? Yeah Jason... Could you give us a few more details about the sample you messed with? So who do you know over there that let you get your hands on the sample anyway? I'll take my Betas linkable, and in blue, red, green, and shadow colors please...
TheLoneWolf Posted March 11, 2004 Posted March 11, 2004 I'm pretty sure it will be successful. Finding about 15,000 fans of the series willing to pay $80 for this toy shouldn't be too difficult. Look at the number of registered peeps at RT.com. With all the registered folks at RT.com, why haven't the MPC's sold out? The Rick MPC was the only one to do that, which I'd attribute to initial hype and curiosity (quality-wise, it is the worst of the bunch). Also, there are less New Generation/Mospeada fans than Macross fans. If the Macross saga MPC's failed to sell out, how will the New Generation MPC's sell with an even smaller fanbase? I believe Toynami will sell out of their NG MPC's, only because the mindless corporates at Robozone, BBTS, Gamestop, Babbages, will buy these by the truckload. But that doesn't necessarily mean that Robozone et al will sell out themselves. In the end, Toynami will walk to the bank laughing, while Gamestop et al will wind up selling their MPC's at a loss (FYI: all Macross MPC's are $29.99 at Gamestop now). "Success" is a subjective notion.
CoryHolmes Posted March 11, 2004 Posted March 11, 2004 With all the registered folks at RT.com, why haven't the MPC's sold out? Because the market was (and still is) flooded with many, many different variations of the VF-1, including the more technical Yamato products. As said in previous statements, these toys are geared to the more mature collector and the larger wallet said collector usually has. The downside to that is the fact that the more mature collector tends to do a little research and find out which other products are out there and how much they cost. In this case, the MPC was a middle-class product in the massivly over-saturated VF-1 market. However, the Alpha MPC is the only game in town for a fully transforming Alpha toy outside of the massively priced Gakkens that only pop up on Ebay and other auction houses, and even then in increasing rarity. Now take a look at the differences between the old Gakken and the new MPC and you'll see that the MPC is much more line-art accurate (if such a thing is possible, given how much morphing the Mospeada mecha used during transformation) as well as with more gadgets tossed in (missle hatches, pilot figure, boxed-up Cyclone, etc.) and you should see that the MPC Alpha is a pretty good interpretation of the anime mecha. The only thing that will limit the Alpha sales are the price (a tad high for what we've been shown in the pictures, but not obscenely high) and questions about quality (which every company is subject to). Robotech and Mospeada fans have been frothing at the mouth for a toy like this to come along, and it was extremely doubtful that someone would fire up old Gakken molds and reproduce those toys (unlike Bandai, which quite happily reissued their 1/55th series amid all the new VF-1 toys).
1st Border Red Devil Posted March 11, 2004 Posted March 11, 2004 If the Macross saga MPC's failed to sell out, how will the New Generation MPC's sell with an even smaller fanbase? I think the reason it hasn't sold out already is because many people are on the fence about this one...not fanbase wise...but toy-wise. They dont want to feel like they got burned with a piece of shnizit from Toynami because of bad quality control on Toynami's part. Given how many people have clamoured for HG to redo The Sentinels, I think you're selling short the Mospeada fan base.
Jasonc Posted March 12, 2004 Posted March 12, 2004 Going on facts, not emotions here, the MPCs didn't do that well, because like some have said here, the market has been flooded with VF-1 variations for a long time. Great for us, but it does cause a backflow of production and businesses who jumped on the train to make these late ended up biting the bullet on profits. This will do well, just by virtue of the fact that this is a new marketed line that has not been tapped in ages it seems, and the demand so far has been quite good. To answer Mechafan's question, the joints are very tight, and the diecast hip joint is about as strong as could be. I can only hope they didn't change much of the version I played with.
TheLoneWolf Posted March 13, 2004 Posted March 13, 2004 Given how many people have clamoured for HG to redo The Sentinels, I think you're selling short the Mospeada fan base. And how many people are clamoring for HG to produce Robotech: The Odyssey or a direct sequel to the Invid Invasion? From what I've gathered on the RT.com boards, the desire to see The Sentinels stems from a fervor to see what happens to Rick, Lisa, and the rest of the Macross crew. Moreover, there is the blind assumption that the Sentinels will carry the same magic that the Macross saga did. Macross saga fans seem to be the driving force behind a Sentinels remake.
Myersjessee Posted March 15, 2004 Posted March 15, 2004 when it comes right down to it I hope it does well...perhaps they will do more stuff, and perhaps it will generate more Mospeada interest, which will perhaps generate more sales, which will perhaps convince Toynami to pay Captain America millions of $ for his Legioss....and a Beta...and some Invid... Trickle-down toy-nomics.
CoryHolmes Posted March 15, 2004 Posted March 15, 2004 Legioss....and a Beta...and some Invid... Don't forget the Cyclones! They need some love, too
Myersjessee Posted March 15, 2004 Posted March 15, 2004 Legioss....and a Beta...and some Invid... Don't forget the Cyclones! They need some love, too you had me at hello....
Cyclone Posted March 15, 2004 Posted March 15, 2004 Then you'll probably be pleased with the knowledge that the MPC Cyclones are coming after the MPC Alphas. The MPC Beta is a really after thought it seems.... Cyc
CoryHolmes Posted March 16, 2004 Posted March 16, 2004 Then you'll probably be pleased with the knowledge that the MPC Cyclones are coming after the MPC Alphas. Pleased? Oh, not so you'd notice... GIMMEGIMMEGIMMEGIMMEGIMMEGIMMEGIMMEGIMMEGIMMEGIMME!!!!!!!!! How'd you find out this little nugget of goodness, Cyc?
Cyclone Posted March 16, 2004 Posted March 16, 2004 RT.com chat room, from Tommy Yune's lips. Pretty much 2004 = MPC Alphas, maybe SP Cyclones and then MPC Cyclones 2005 perhaps if everything goes to plan *knocks on wood* Cyc
1st Border Red Devil Posted March 16, 2004 Posted March 16, 2004 Then you'll probably be pleased with the knowledge that the MPC Cyclones are coming after the MPC Alphas. May the fleas of a thousand camels infest George Sohn's crotch for not having the goddamned decency to at least TRY and produce a Super Poseable Hovertank or Ajax.
Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0 Posted March 16, 2004 Posted March 16, 2004 CYc can you ask tommy yune if it is at ALL POSSIBLE for them to lower the MSRP? I trust they KNOW this is the sole thuing many fnas have been bitching about...sems many more want this thing over the previous MPCs. I know i do.
tom64ss Posted March 16, 2004 Posted March 16, 2004 CYc can you ask tommy yune if it is at ALL POSSIBLE for them to lower the MSRP? I trust they KNOW this is the sole thuing many fnas have been bitching about...sems many more want this thing over the previous MPCs. I know i do. I think these MPC Alpha should pretty much answer that question once and for all. If they meet to good fan response, I think we're stuck with it. If they leave fans feeling like they did after the Rick Volume 1, I doubt you'll have to worry about the MSRP. They're already facing an uphill battle with the scale they decided to use.
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