MasterPiece Collection v1.1

[Ladic]

Try putting them up for like $169.99 and list it as a Rick MPC and say you're throwing in Ben FREE!  For some reason... I think you'll get a buyer quicker that way then listing them as a lot.  It's funny how eBay psychology works.

385212[/snapback]

went ahead and put my first item ever for sale on ebay, but left the start price at $129.99, I hope I can get a pretty penny as this are going towards my funds to buy a widescreen lcd monitor for my pc

left the link at auctions section.

Edited March 31, 2006 by Ladic

[jenius]

I definitely wish you the best of luck!

[Ladic]

thank you

[mechaninac]

There's a pretty simple root to the assertion that Toynami used the Imai kits molds... that being that Toynami actually did purchase the molds from whoever had possession of them.  The engineering of the toy is also pretty spot on to the engineering of the model which had to save Toynami some big headaches.  From there they must have just attempted to recreate the model molds in a manner suitable for toys and added a few new details and did some tweaking where they saw fit.  Did they physically use the model molds in the creation of the toy?  No, as you say, that'd be preposterous.  That being said, if you stand a built model of the Imai kit next to an MPC the similarities are scary... and the scale is the same.  The original Imai kit wasn't quite 1/48 scale as advertised but it was bigger than 1/55... which is exactly why the Toynami MPC is the same.

385640[/snapback]

Well, isn't that pretty much what I said???

[jenius]

I was just trying to clarify. You said the idea that Toynami "used" the molds was preposterous. Toynami actually did use the molds quite a bit so your statement is false unless you defined "used" better. The molds were used for design purposes, not for actual manufacture... but I've never seen someone assert the molds were used for anything more than design purposes.

[Osean]

Robotech.com has all four MPC Alphas and bookends for $300! At first I thought it was one of those April fool's jokes that the site plays every year, but its legit.

http://www.robotech.com/store/viewproduct.php?id=257

Edited April 3, 2006 by Osean

[Macross73]

I think they/Toynami/Rt.com have witnessed the drop in price on ebay and they may? or maiy not? be seeing sales droping on their site, since the initial release of the Alphas. Just a thought.

[jenius]

very interesting! $60 for each product.... that's not bad at all! If I hadn't bought any yet... I would totally swoop this up.

Edited April 3, 2006 by jenius

[niomosy]

$60 isn't too bad. It's certainly more tempting than at $80.

[eriku]

I still think the only worthwhile toy Toynami has made in the Robotech line is the SD Alphas. They're an original design, they're actually well-made, the paint is great and they are affordable. I still wish someone would make a larger and more detailed/complex SD Alpha, but that seems unlikely.

[armentage]

I still think the only worthwhile toy Toynami has made in the Robotech line is the SD Alphas.  They're an original design, they're actually well-made, the paint is great and they are affordable.  I still wish someone would make a larger and more detailed/complex SD Alpha, but that seems unlikely.

388723[/snapback]

SD Alpha??? What? Where???

[Kin]

Hey this thread isn't a sticky one anymore. Lack of news?

[Cyclone]

SD Alpha???  What?  Where???

388741[/snapback]

Um.... you don't know about the Toynami SD Alpha Morphers?

Images on Toynami site on SD Alpha Morphers

[jenius]

An alpha joke machine would be brilliant! I know i'd buy 'em. The morphers are fun and all but a bigger better version would definitely be welcomed.

[bigkid24]

That's a great deal on the alphas and bookends. It's sad to see that there is such a lack of demand for these though. I think it pretty much spells doom for any chance of a beta.

[jenius]

Which flaw do you guys think hindered this toy the most:

A) Hand design/materials are too fragile

B) Head is very often crooked on neck

C) Transformation is too complicated with imperfect tolerances

D) Friction joints (especially shoulders)

E) Forearm missile trays are off center

F) Fighter often seems to have an arched back preventing the landing gears from touching the ground.

G) Critical joints are made of plastic while areas that see no stress are made of diecast (to be fair, this is true of just about every diecast toy... I think because of paint-chipping issues).

I'm of the opinion that if the Alpha was a better toy many more would have been sold. I've seen quite a few people say "I wanted one but the reviews were so bad I couldn't bring myself to get it." Personally, I think they can be had for cheap enough where if I wanted one the reviews wouldn't have kept me from purchasing just one and making the decision on my own but maybe I'm not on as tight a budget as others.

Honestly, I think Toynami's heart was totally in the right place. Had everything been executed perfectly this toy would be unstoppably cool. Tons of diecast, tons of detail, tons of potential... I still have hope for Toynami. After all, Yamato started with the 1/60 valks and then created the magnificent 1/48s. We should be so lucky if Toynami followed in a similar vein.

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

Which flaw do you guys think hindered this toy the most:

A) Hand design/materials are too fragile

B) Head is very often crooked on neck

C) Transformation is too complicated with imperfect tolerances

D) Friction joints (especially shoulders)

E) Forearm missile trays are off center

F) Fighter often seems to have an arched back preventing the landing gears from touching the ground.

G) Critical joints are made of plastic while areas that see no stress are made of diecast (to be fair, this is true of just about every diecast toy... I think because of paint-chipping issues).

I'm of the opinion that if the Alpha was a better toy many more would have been sold.  I've seen quite a few people say "I wanted one but the reviews were so bad I couldn't bring myself to get it."  Personally, I think they can be had for cheap enough where if I wanted one the reviews wouldn't have kept me from purchasing just one and making the decision on my own but maybe I'm not on as tight a budget as others. 

Honestly, I think Toynami's heart was totally in the right place.  Had everything been executed perfectly this toy would be unstoppably cool.  Tons of diecast, tons of detail, tons of potential...  I still have hope for Toynami.  After all, Yamato started with the 1/60 valks and then created the magnificent 1/48s.  We should be so lucky if Toynami followed in a similar vein.

388868[/snapback]

Hey jenius, in your opinion, which had higher quality, the VF-1 MPC or the alpha? I didn't think the VF-1's were horrible(I got them far less than msrp MIB), and am debating on getting an alpha if I see it cheap.

[jenius]

Hey Shin, I currently have a few of my Alpha MPCs out for an impromptu "how-to" photo shoot. When I make that thread I'll have lots of details on the Alpha and its strength and weaknesses and photographic examples. I think you, and anyone else on the fence about getting one, should be able to make a better decision after you see that. In the meantime, i think the Alphas are on par with the VF-1s. The sculpt is far better (the VF-1 sculpt was iffy in my opinion... and yes, that means i think the HCMs had iffy sculpts as well) but whereas the VF-1 could have used a little more engineering (as we see in Yamato's 1/48) the Alpha is way over-engineered and could have benefited from being much simpler. More to come -

[jenius]

Here's a quick review I threw together for the Toynami Alpha:

The Pros:

1) Most poseable transforming Alpha toy to date.

2) Diecast, there was a Gakken Diecast toy (and it's cool) but the MPC has nearly as much diecast and transforms into all three mode.

3) The sculpt is beautiful and the best representation yet (better, in my opinion, then the Imai models they are modeled after).

4) Detail. Very nice panel lines in what seem to be appropriate areas. There are also a good amount of details painted on rather than decals.

5) Speaking of decals, it's my understanding the decals that come with these things are great.

6) Extras. Removable gun clip, tiny cyclone, rubber wheels, and lots and lots of missile bays that actually open.

7) Not that I care, but the box and packaging is standard Toynami goodness.

The Cons:

1) Fragility. Refer to the attached image 1-

Red circle - the hands are super poseable and detailed but they are made of a rubber type compound. There is a metal pin toward the end of the palm that is used to attach the four fingers to the palm. This pin is seated in a tiny portion of rubber. If you open the hands and close them enough, or insert the gun and then twist the gun or something like that, the rubber wears enough for the pin to unseat and the four fingers fall right off the hand.

Yellow circle - the arm attaches to the legs in fighter mode via a peg. At the factory this peg is inserted into the leg for shipping. It is not unheard of for the toy to arrive with this peg then broken off of the arm and stuck in the leg.

Green circle - this one irritates me the most since I just found out one of mine was broken here (and I've transformed it twice and put it on my shelf). As you can see, the entire arm has to extend to reveal the white portions (bicep region). In order to extend the arm you must tug down on the forearm. There is a thin plastic rod that attaches the middle white section of the arm to both the lower and upper portions. If this rod breaks from your tugging the arm falls right off at the bicep or forearm. WHY WAS THIS NOT METAL? Anyway, I think the problem might be even worse. Unless someone plays with my toys and broke this thing I think that, if the toy wasn't manufactured right, then adhesive applied to either end of the rod could cause the rod to be straining while the toy sits on your shelf in fighter mode. So, if the arm was slightly twisted when the adhesive was applied, and you have it sitting straight in fighter mode, the rod will be constantly trying to return to the twisted position even though the rest of the arm is seated via pegs into the leg. Eventually the rod just snaps and six months later when you pick it up the arm just falls right off.

2) Build quality - too many of these things are a little screwed up straight out of the box. I have a red one where the head constantly wants to pop down in fighter mode. I have several with cocked heads (see attached image 2). Sometimes the missile flaps aren't quite seated properly or are warped. Sometimes the paint has minor smudges (I think they improved this over the VF-1 series though).

3) Either the transformation is too complicated for a toy this small or the build tolerances are too sloppy. This thing can really fight you during transformation. It's not even so much a learning curve thing... sometimes things just take an excess amount of patience.

4) Friction joint in the shoulders. The arms are heavy because Toynami put diecast in the forearm. Throw the big ol' gun in the hand and now the arm is very heavy. After a few transformations and arm movements it's very possible for your Alpha to never be able to lift it's arm and point the gun forward again.

5) The whole toy is glued together. Even areas that have screws also have portions that are glued. If it breaks there is no repairing it. Customizing it would be very very hard.

6) the shoulder mount needs to be removed for full transformation. The Gakken 1/35 didn't have to do that (but the Gakken 1/55 didn't even have a shoulder mount).

7) the landing gears. Sometimes they come crooked but I consider that part of 2. The real problem is that they are a milimeter longer than the mid section of the plane. Many people complain there Alpha lays on its chest with its landing gears off the ground. Usually, when that's said, it's because the toy is transformed improperly (it's friggin' hard). Still, even when you do it right there's no room under the chest at all (see image 3).

Mentionables -

Many people complained about the arched back in fighter mode. As I just mentioned, often this is because the toy was transformed wrong. However, even when it's done right the vehicle still looks slightly arched upward... but the only time you get that affect is when you stare at it directly from its side.

The verdict - My verdict for the MPC alpha is the same as it was for the MPC VF-1. I give it a 7 of 10 (I give the Yammy 1/48 a 9.5/10). It really pisses me off too because I'm a HUGE Legioss fan and this toy has so much potential that it just doesn't live up to because of the overall fragility. What do I recommend? If you can find it for half price to as much as $60, buy it. KEEP THE RECEIPT. When you get it home, treat it like a model you just built. If something is stuck be forceful but always be patient. If something seems like it's fighting you, come here and ask for tips (i check the forums pretty often). This thing does look BEAUTIFUL if you just successfully get it into a pose and leave it alone. I'm gonna tack on some more pics as examples -

PS - I want a Beta so I do hope these continue to sell so maybe I'm a bit biased but I think this has been a pretty open review. For the record, I have owned 13 Alpha MPCs and have broken 3 (blue one's hand, shadow's shoulder, and I might be to blame for my red one's arm but I have no idea how), have received 1 broken in the box (red's arm tab), and have received two I felt were of inferior quality (crooked landing gear, miscolored part, that sort of thing).

Edited April 8, 2006 by jenius

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

O m,y goodness. THanks for the review!~ VERY informative! Can't help but think i may get a lemon. I think the diecast was a good thing but it was placed in the WRONG places. Several members have mentioned it was nice but wasn't put for the sake of durability, just for the sake of "just cause".

Its a beautiful toy no doubt. Strong ratchets should have been placed in the shoulders. I hope toynami makes a version 2 where some parts that needed to be diecast are diecast, and some parts that didn't need to be are plastic. Seems like this could have very well been the end all of alphas, but marred by very easily rectifiable mistakes at the factory.

I'll pick it up at a con if I see it for cheap.

[jenius]

Glad it helps. A note on sells, when I found my red one was broken I took a look to see if I could find an online retailer trying to get rid of them. Pretty much everywhere is sold out and the rest have put them back up to MSRP. That means the first 5000 have pretty much all sold for every make. I know the second 5000 Scotts have already shipped so, while these things may not be selling great they are still selling. Also, if you wait the next 5000 Rooks and Lancers ought to be flooding the market and driving prices down again.... but who knows when.

Now it's time for: FUN WITH COMPARISONS!!!!

Edited April 9, 2006 by jenius

[Osean]

The next batch of alphas will probably come out when and if the beta is released.

Here's some intel on the Beta if it hasn't been posted yet.

http://www.robotech.com/community/forum/re...23&pagenumber=1

Tommy

Subject: Some background on costs

MSRP is a combination of manufacturing costs and market forces. You'd normally expect the costs to scale proportionally, but it's not as simple as a straight double. When the market naturally shrinks at higher price points, the price per unit continues to rise because a smaller of units now has to cover the factory set up costs. This also happened to the B-2 when its production run was slashed.

Toynami put a lot of effort into the prototype. George Sohn is meeting with his manufacturing contacts in China to see what can be done to make such a limited run of Betas possible.

[jenius]

Can you tell I'm home sick this weekend by the number of my posts??

The next batch of alphas will probably come out when and if the beta is released.

I doubt they'll hold off that long on releasing the next 5000 Rooks and Lancers. For the record, I just *think* toynami releases them in 5,000 chunks, I may be wrong. Anyway, the third round of releases, the final 10K-15K will almost certainly not be released until the Beta (unless the Beta is never going to come out). Here's how I think things will happen:

1) Toynami ships #s 5,000-10,000 of the Rook, then Lancer, then Shadow MPCs throughout the course of this year.

2) Toward the end of the year Toynami makes a definitive statement about the MPC Beta coming out to help drive sales of the currently on the market Alphas.

3) Toynami releases the Beta MPC (fingers-crossed) first or second quarter of next year.

4) Toynami has an interesting option at this point. It can hold off on releasing Alphas 10k-15k and repackage them as a Gift Set with the Beta of the same number. Either that or it can trickle out the remaining alphas in between releases of the Betas.

Alright, I'm no betting man but that's kind of how I see things panning out. I saw one website that I believe had Lancer's green Alpha on pre-order which leads me to believe that someone at Toynami must have acknowledged that more Alphas will be available at some point this year.

Now, do you guys think Toynami should make fewer than 15K Betas? I'm wondering if they wouldn't be smarter limiting it to 10K.

[Guppy]

Everytime they release a new MPC they always throw out the old "limited production run" (whether it is or isn't) to justify the inflated prices. So this is no surprise.

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

Everytime they release a new MPC they always throw out the old "limited production run" (whether it is or isn't) to justify the inflated prices. So this is no surprise.

389412[/snapback]

SOOO true man! Anyways its been said time and time again that in the toy industry, 15,000 units isn't even limited, its more along the lines of a standard production run.

And Tommy Yune compared it to the B-2's production run.

I can't think of what's funnier,

A-the fact that he compared it to the B-2

or

B-the fact that he thought we would all fall for it.

And I do agree, 10k sounds like a good starting amount.

[Kin]

Here's a quick review I threw together for the Toynami Alpha:

The Pros:

1) Most poseable transforming Alpha toy to date.

2) Diecast, there was a Gakken Diecast toy (and it's cool) but the MPC has nearly as much diecast and transforms into all three mode.

3) The sculpt is beautiful and the best representation yet (better, in my opinion, then the Imai models they are modeled after). 

4) Detail.  Very nice panel lines in what seem to be appropriate areas.  There are also a good amount of details painted on rather than decals.

5) Speaking of decals, it's my understanding the decals that come with these things are great.

6) Extras.  Removable gun clip, tiny cyclone, rubber wheels, and lots and lots of missile bays that actually open.

7) Not that I care, but the box and packaging is standard Toynami goodness.

The Cons:

1) Fragility.  Refer to the attached image 1-

Red circle - the hands are super poseable and detailed but they are made of a rubber type compound.  There is a metal pin toward the end of the palm that is used to attach the four fingers to the palm.  This pin is seated in a tiny portion of rubber.  If you open the hands and close them enough, or insert the gun and then twist the gun or something like that, the rubber wears enough for the pin to unseat and the four fingers fall right off the hand.

Yellow circle - the arm attaches to the legs in fighter mode via a peg.  At the factory this peg is inserted into the leg for shipping.  It is not unheard of for the toy to arrive with this peg then broken off of the arm and stuck in the leg.

Green circle - this one irritates me the most since I just found out one of mine was broken here (and I've transformed it twice and put it on my shelf).  As you can see, the entire arm has to extend to reveal the white portions (bicep region).  In order to extend the arm you must tug down on the forearm.  There is a thin plastic rod that attaches the middle white section of the arm to both the lower and upper portions.  If this rod breaks from your tugging the arm falls right off at the bicep or forearm.  WHY WAS THIS NOT METAL?  Anyway, I think the problem might be even worse.  Unless someone plays with my toys and broke this thing I think that, if the toy wasn't manufactured right, then adhesive applied to either end of the rod could cause the rod to be straining while the toy sits on your shelf in fighter mode.  So, if the arm was slightly twisted when the adhesive was applied, and you have it sitting straight in fighter mode, the rod will be constantly trying to return to the twisted position even though the rest of the arm is seated via pegs into the leg.  Eventually the rod just snaps and six months later when you pick it up the arm just falls right off.

2) Build quality - too many of these things are a little screwed up straight out of the box.  I have a red one where the head constantly wants to pop down in fighter mode.  I have several with cocked heads (see attached image 2).  Sometimes the missile flaps aren't quite seated properly or are warped.  Sometimes the paint has minor smudges (I think they improved this over the VF-1 series though).

3) Either the transformation is too complicated for a toy this small or the build tolerances are too sloppy.  This thing can really fight you during transformation.  It's not even so much a learning curve thing... sometimes things just take an excess amount of patience.

4) Friction joint in the shoulders.  The arms are heavy because Toynami put diecast in the forearm.  Throw the big ol' gun in the hand and now the arm is very heavy.  After a few transformations and arm movements it's very possible for your Alpha to never be able to lift it's arm and point the gun forward again.

5) The whole toy is glued together.  Even areas that have screws also have portions that are glued.  If it breaks there is no repairing it.  Customizing it would be very very hard.

6) the shoulder mount needs to be removed for full transformation.  The Gakken 1/35 didn't have to do that (but the Gakken 1/55 didn't even have a shoulder mount).

7) the landing gears.  Sometimes they come crooked but I consider that part of 2.  The real problem is that they are a milimeter longer than the mid section of the plane.  Many people complain there Alpha lays on its chest with its landing gears off the ground.  Usually, when that's said, it's because the toy is transformed improperly (it's friggin' hard).  Still, even when you do it right there's no room under the chest at all (see image 3).

Mentionables -

Many people complained about the arched back in fighter mode.  As I just mentioned, often this is because the toy was transformed wrong.  However, even when it's done right the vehicle still looks slightly arched upward... but the only time you get that affect is when you stare at it directly from its side.

The verdict - My verdict for the MPC alpha is the same as it was for the MPC VF-1.  I give it a 7 of 10 (I give the Yammy 1/48 a 9.5/10).  It really pisses me off too because I'm a HUGE Legioss fan and this toy has so much potential that it just doesn't live up to because of the overall fragility.  What do I recommend?  If you can find it for half price to as much as $60, buy it.  KEEP THE RECEIPT. When you get it home, treat it like a model you just built.  If something is stuck be forceful but always be patient.  If something seems like it's fighting you, come here and ask for tips (i check the forums pretty often).  This thing does look BEAUTIFUL if you just successfully get it into a pose and leave it alone.  I'm gonna tack on some more pics as examples -

PS - I want a Beta so I do hope these continue to sell so maybe I'm a bit biased but I think this has been a pretty open review.  For the record, I have owned 13 Alpha MPCs and have broken 3 (blue one's hand, shadow's shoulder, and I might be to blame for my red one's arm but I have no idea how), have received 1 broken in the box (red's arm tab), and have received two I felt were of inferior quality (crooked landing gear, miscolored part, that sort of thing).

388937[/snapback]

Lol hold all of your Legioss 2 meters of the ground and drop it.

Now take pictures and compare.

Edited April 10, 2006 by Kin

[jenius]

Lol hold all of your Legioss 2 meters of the ground and drop it.

Now take pictures and compare.

Christ man, what toy would you do that to anyway? Is your point that I should have added that to my review? I guess I could make another review for people who intend to allow their children to run around and throw their toys.... but I think we all know that doing that with any of these is a pretty bad idea. The big Gakken won't have knees or wings, the MPC won't have arms, God knows how bad the little Gakkens will be destroyed.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

Imagine if they made a banpresto style alpha for really cheap?

I'd buy that. Make them roughly the size of thier vf1 PT toys. Don't worry about detail yet. Don't ask me how it will transform. Just an idea.

If it breaks? who cares? you will always have spare parts. (still haven't actually broken any of my banprestos yet though. It comforts me knowing that every parts of the toy is detachable so you can mix pieces up beyond just the swappable head)

I think had I not stumbled upon the yamato macross stuff, I would have already owned 1 or 2 alphas myself. So I kinda feel a bit sad if this will be the last of the alphas we ever see. (ie due to not being popular in japan as well as the toys getting bad reviews)

As a kid I liked the whole idea that the alpha could dock with the beta as well. A smaller less detailed toy might not put so much strain on the pocket either.

Edited April 10, 2006 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[Kin]

I'm happy if they're made of rubber: good for their teeth, no sharp edges, lightweight

[jenius]

I'm happy if they're made of rubber: good for their teeth, no sharp edges, lightweight

On that note, the best Toynami product to date, in my book considering price/durability/look has got to be the metallic superposeable alphas... and I think you can gnaw on them too! Little note, they're even more poseable then they at first seem because a lot of the joints are ultra tight... the heels are a good example of this.

[Chowser]

wow, rt.com must be desperate to move Toynami stuff.

$300 for all 4 alphas + the bookends.

http://www.robotech.com/store/viewproduct.php?id=257

[nightmareB4macross]

wow, rt.com must be desperate to move Toynami stuff.

$300 for all 4 alphas + the bookends.

http://www.robotech.com/store/viewproduct.php?id=257

390167[/snapback]

Even for that price it still seems very steep, considering the QC issues that arise from the MPCs.

[jenius]

They should just do a price drop to $59.99 each... but for obvious reasons that's impossible. I think if that had been Toynami's price point all along the toy world would have been a much better place. The $300 point is almost retail plus a free set of "bookends" I'd have absolutely no use for. I hear they look great... but I don't display my boxes so I don't see a point.

[Osean]

Here's a new rumor about the Beta Fighter from an interview with Tommy Yune: The Beta Fighter, if made, could cost up over $200, it might be made non-transformable to reduce cost.

Link:

http://www.robotechnews.blogspot.com/

Edited May 2, 2006 by Osean

[Lynx7725]

Right, and that would be $200 less dollars HG would get from me.