MasterPiece Collection v1.1

[sidearmsalpha]

Hi all,

has anyone here tried to disassemble the legs on any of the MP Alphas? Reason I ask is that I just picked up a Shadow on eBay and the left leg won't bend at the knee at all, and if I don't get a replacement from the seller, I'll have to try to fix it myself. The right knee bends fine, but the left knee won't budge at all, and I don't want to force it and break it. I would imagine the screws on the lower leg are under those little round painted caps, right? Also, I noticed that the right knee is crooked somewhat causing the outer part of the upper leg to bend outward as if there's something missing in the knee joint that keeps the lower leg from being straight. I'll have to take pics to demonstrate, I guess. Also, the upper leg section isn't supposed to bend midway, right? Cuz it looks like there's a joint there. I'm not sure since this is the first Alpha I've gotten.

[jenius]

While anything might be possible, it sounds like this is most likely the result of sloppy glue work. If you live in the US just wiggle jiggle... then yank like hell. It will either break or be fixed. If it's broken Toynami will replace it themselves, don't bother going through the person who sold it to you. You just need to have some proof you've paid for the Shadow Fighter and then spend the money to ship the toy back to Toynami.

If you live outside of the US.... good luck. Sorry.

[pfunk]

The reason why prefer the Legioss and Tread over... well... any Macross design is because they just give off an aura of grunt designs, not fragile.

366242[/snapback]

I've always liked the look of the Legioss (although not as much as the VF-1) and Shinji Aramaki, the designer of the Legioss is my second favorite mecha designer after Kawamori.

However, it's clear that Aramaki designs his mecha to look cool, without thinking too much of the real-world practicality or workability of the design, unlike Kawamori.

My major issue with the Legioss is that it has no method of pitch control in Armo-fighter mode for atmospheric flight. Although neither the VF-1 or the Legioss have any horizontal tail surfaces or elevators, the VF-1's thrust vectoring feet move up and down to provide pitch control. However, the Legioss's feet can only move side to side and thus cannot provide any pitch control.

IIRC, we once had a discussion in another thread about whether the Legioss would fly in an atmosphere and the consensus was that it would not (David Hingtgen or other knowledgable MW aviation experts, please feel free to step in and correct me if I am wrong).

Other issues I have with the Legioss are: -

1) In Armo-fighter mode, the boxy shoulder missile launchers are very unaerodynamic and would probably create lots of buffeting and limit maximum speed in atmosphere to sub-sonic.

2) While the Legioss carries lots of micro-missiles, they are all short-range only. Lack of any medium or long range weapons is a major disadvantage.

3) While the curved gunpod magazine may look cool, it's a impractical as far as carriage of the weapon in fighter mode. The magazine actually just is a battery pack and does not hold cannon shells, so there is no reason to make it curved and have it sticking out at 90º to the gunpod body. Heck, on the toynami MPC you have to remove the magazine to attach the gunpod to the wing in fighter mode!

4) having the wings folding down in Armo-Diver mode provides less lift.

Graham

367221[/snapback]

look at the B2 bomber, the wings on the legioss go back quite a bit (anime not any toys)

[Black Valkyrie]

Never said this before if the Gakken Legioss get reiussed which I doubt that, will you buy one or stick with the MPC.

Edited February 7, 2006 by Black Valkyrie

[pfunk]

pft, at 1st word, Id sell my Gakkens and wait for the rerelease, but I'd probably get screwed like the yf19, SOB's

[Kin]

I dunno, tread or no tread, a strike VF-1 is still beats the pants off of any legioss

367573[/snapback]

Maybe not? A Legioss could use his micromissiles to hit incoming enemy missiles.

Does anyone know how many missiles a VF-1s and a Legioss got?

[myk]

The Legioss carries more missiles by just a few when compared to a Fast Pak or GBP equipped Vf-1, I think. As for the exact number, I believe the Legioss carries 60 micro-missile type warheads, while the VF-1 carries.......someone help me out here?

Edited February 8, 2006 by myk

[jenius]

while the VF-1 carries.......someone help me out here

Do we get to count the ones Max attaches to the fins of his valk? Should be between 12 and 18 I think....

Never said this before if the Gakken Legioss get reiussed which I doubt that, will you buy one or stick with the MPC.

When I first came to the MPC forum I was all about the old Gakkens. Then I got a few more MPCs and have come to found that they really are superior in most ways (I made some long rants). The glory of owning the originals and the MPCs is I'll never be stuck making that kind of decision

[CoryHolmes]

The Legioss carries more missiles by just a few when compared to a Fast Pak or GBP equipped Vf-1, I think.  As for the exact number, I believe the Legioss carries 60 micro-missile type warheads, while the VF-1 carries.......someone help me out here?

367914[/snapback]

A DYRL-style VF-1 can carry in excess of 180 micro-missles. Five in each box-type missle rack, and two per wing/four per plane (120), plus another 30 in each Super pack for a grand total of 180.

[Kin]

ehm okay... what about the amount of a Legioss + Tlead?

[jenius]

A DYRL-style VF-1

Including fastpacks is soooo not fair. The Alpha has like 60 missiles without giant boosters that absolutely prevent it from flying within an atmosphere.

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

Id buy a gakken, after seeing vintage versions out of box in a store in cali, I always wished I had one. I LOVE the scale and size on them things, looks uber powerful and durable.

[myk]

ehm okay... what about the amount of a Legioss + Tlead?

368133[/snapback]

Good question. I believe that the Beta/Tread carries 80 warheads? As for the

VF-1, if the DYRL VF-1 could carry 180 (?!), how many does the T.V. Fast-Pak'ed version carry?

[Graham]

The Legioss carries more missiles by just a few when compared to a Fast Pak or GBP equipped Vf-1, I think.  As for the exact number, I believe the Legioss carries 60 micro-missile type warheads, while the VF-1 carries.......someone help me out here?

367914[/snapback]

A DYRL-style VF-1 can carry in excess of 180 micro-missles. Five in each box-type missle rack, and two per wing/four per plane (120), plus another 30 in each Super pack for a grand total of 180.

368084[/snapback]

Each wing-mounted UUM-7 pod hold 15 micro-missiles (not 5). So x 4 pods = 60 micro-missiles.

The arm-mounted NP-AR-01 micro-missile launcher pods hold 3 micro-missiles each. So x 2 pods = 6 micro-missiles.

The back-mounted HMMP-02 micro-missile launcher pods hold 20 micro-missiles each (not 30), that is if we assume the Yamato 1/48 toy is accurate. So 2 x 20 = 40 micro-missiles.

The maximum number of micro-missiles for a Super Valkyrie would actually =106 micro-missiles.

Graham

[CoryHolmes]

Each wing-mounted UUM-7 pod hold 15 micro-missiles (not 5). So x 4 pods = 60 micro-missiles.

The arm-mounted NP-AR-01 micro-missile launcher pods hold 3 micro-missiles each. So x 2 pods = 6 micro-missiles.

The back-mounted HMMP-02 micro-missile launcher pods hold 20 micro-missiles each (not 30), that is if we assume the Yamato 1/48 toy is accurate. So 2 x 20 = 40 micro-missiles.

The maximum number of micro-missiles for a Super Valkyrie would actually =106 micro-missiles.

Graham

368352[/snapback]

Whoops, my bad. *headslap* Apparently basic math is still beyond me.

But my original point stands in that that is far too many missles for a VF-1 in my opinion. One of the things I really like about Robotech is how you can see a (more or less) clear lineage in the mecha. The VF-1 started off as pretty successful, but not the greatest. The REF mecha are a great deal more advanced and more powerful. And the ASC mecha are more advanced and (more or less) more powerful still. Mecha in Macross seem to start off with amazing capabilities and then just get more and more absurd with each generation.

Edited February 9, 2006 by CoryHolmes

[Kin]

Hmm..I compared some tech details of the Legioss and VF-1A.

In atmosphere it's a close combat.

The legioss is a smaller target but is slower than the VF-1A.

Firepower main gun (both 3 barreled):

VF1A > 55mm

Legioss > 80mm

Legioss can fly in battroid mode.

Can use micromissiles as flares or suprise attack

(missiles aimed towards the back in fightermode)

Ehm... I prefer the Legioss!

Edited February 10, 2006 by Kin

[Roger]

However, it's clear that Aramaki designs his mecha to look cool, without thinking too much of the real-world practicality or workability of the design, unlike Kawamori.

Unfortunately, any real-world practicality or workability is sort of flushed down the toilet when you realize the transforming planes of Macross were designed to fight giant fifty-foot tall people with green and blue hair.

[myk]

VF-1 versus Legioss? The victor would depend on the pilot...

[Eazy D]

I don't see much point in comparing the flying characteristics of the legioss and the valkyrie. A transforming fighter is too complicated to get off the ground anyway. BUT having said that I like the fact that Kawamori tried to get the VF-1 to look as close as possible to a real military aircraft...hence I've got to say i like the valk more. As to which is better in fantasy combat.....I dunno

BTW - the masterpiece voltron isn't bad at all. I hate toynami for the piece of crap alpha I ended up with but the voltron QC is much better. The plastic parts are still crappy and there are a few design flaws but it is surprisingly sturdy for a combiner and the articulation and individual lions are gorgeous.

[CoryHolmes]

VF-1 versus Legioss?  The victor would depend on the pilot...

368909[/snapback]

It would also depend on the area of engagement, (space, atomsphere, at or above sea-level), because the Alpha/Legioss is a nimble little beast, able to acellerate and decelerate very quickly, not to mention quite manouverable. The VF-1 is able to achieve a higher top speed, but only when significantly over the sea level.

Plus, being in an atmosphere would negate the use of the Super packs, so that would drop the VF-1 down to 12 missles, plus gunpod and head laser.

[ghostryder]

I've always thought of the Legioss as a heavy-armed close air support fighter, like a Harrier meets Warthog (wouldn't that be bad-ass!). I think they should have sculpted the wings and nose a little differently to emphasize this. As is, the Legioss rules amongst the genre of brick-like transforming mecha that would never fly in real life (like all the Orguss mecha).

The Valkyrie (and its VF derivatives) is just a beautifully conceived design that makes you believe tranforming planes can happen.. almost. I'd put my money on the Legioss in a close-to-ground battle, but the Valkyrie could just outrun it. In space, it's all about who's the better pilot and who has the most missiles/bigger gun .

[CoryHolmes]

I've always thought of the Legioss as a heavy-armed close air support fighter, like a Harrier meets Warthog (wouldn't that be bad-ass!). I think they should have sculpted the wings and nose a little differently to emphasize this. As is, the Legioss rules amongst the genre of brick-like transforming mecha that would never fly in real life (like all the Orguss mecha).

The Valkyrie (and its VF derivatives) is just a beautifully conceived design that makes you believe tranforming planes can happen.. almost. I'd put my money on the Legioss in a close-to-ground battle, but the Valkyrie could just outrun it. In space, it's all about who's the better pilot and who has the most missiles/bigger gun .

368997[/snapback]

Indeed. The Alpha is more like a dogfighter than an interceptor, it just doesn't have the tankage in space for reaction mass. However, that's what the Beta was designed for

[armentage]

Unfortunately, any real-world practicality or workability is sort of flushed down the toilet when you realize the transforming planes of Macross were designed to fight giant fifty-foot tall people with green and blue hair.

368803[/snapback]

<3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

I like the vf1 fighter mode better than the legioss fighter, but the legioss looks cooler in battroid mode than a vf1.

It would be silly to compare though since they were designedto fight aliens that are different to each other. Perhaps the smaller size mech has proven more effective against the insect-like aliens than a bigger one? Being more numerous and swarming like a bee I imagine the humans would have found themselves weak at close combat (think of the zerg from star craft when they fight you in swarms. Killing an indvidual one is easy since they are weak. But because they breed so quickly and there are so many of them, it would be like wasting your ammo trying to focus all your aim on one and to shoot each individual insect, because by that time it would allow other insects to rush you and surround you where they can then get close enough to hack you to bits) ....so the humans in that universe focus on manueverability and fighting close range.

While the macross people fight giants and have other things in mind besides the aliens themselves: the aliens have mecha too, so they might need heavier weapons. Can you imagine a massive Qrau (bigger than vf1 but arguably more manueverable than it in space) vs a legious? I think the qrau would fly circles around it in space and be the perfect counter weapon against the inbit! I kind of consider it like a car with a bigger body but with a more muscular engine.

when you realize the transforming planes of Macross were designed to fight giant fifty-foot tall people with green and blue hair.

See the science and technology thread about the story of how humans are making green pigs that glow in the dark. I would imagine an alien race Specialising in genetics) to have been even more advanced in genetic engineering for them to be able to at the least, change the colour of the hair of thier soldiers. As for giant size: we have all kinds of giant animals from the ancient past now extinct that would be probably be mythical to us today. Could the account of dragons, (definately read the stuff on page 3 about giant lizards in australia) just have been massive lizards? I'm amazed sometimes at the size some snakes can grow to. They are like monsters you would see from a frank frazetta painting. I think the 50 foot thing is extreme but it is a great excuse to have a giant robot in a robot show. (ie the idea of a giant robot is so impactical)

Edited February 12, 2006 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[Kin]

Well... at least the VF-1 Rules in toylines... toynami loses from Yamato

[Lonely Soldier Boy]

Yeah. I wonder what stops Yamato from making a better Legioss line.

[Phyrox]

Yeah. I wonder what stops Yamato from making a better Legioss line.

369696[/snapback]

Are you joking? Or are you really serious?

If, somehow the later, I refer you to the "HG licensing" thread.

http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=153

[Cyclone]

Yeah. I wonder what stops Yamato from making a better Legioss line.

369696[/snapback]

Well, can't speak of the years before when they could have but chose not to, but in 2004 Toynami got the Japanese toy rights to Mospeada and Southern Cross to give them expanded markets for their products/to avoid anybody else releasing similar product much like Yamato/Bandai are with Macross, so that they are literally the only game in town worldwide for Mospeada and Southern Cross toys.

To date only Mospeada Superposables have come out, talk of a Japanese release of the MPC Alphas has faded away, so most nowdays believe it was purely spoiler.

[Black Valkyrie]

I don`t think so but I always think that Takara should take the license cuz of their Microman franchise, they would make a good job out of it with the bikes.

Edited February 13, 2006 by Black Valkyrie

[Lonely Soldier Boy]

Sorry, I didn't know Toynazi hold the worldwide rights for Mospeada. That sucks. I bet they KNEW any japanese manufacturer would do better Legioss than theirs. I hope they do at least 1/100 versions to match their upcoming VF-1 line.

By the way, does anybody knows if Toynami showed the Beta-Tread at the latest NY ToyFair? This is getting closer and closer to vaporwear.

[Kin]

Sorry, I didn't know Toynazi hold the worldwide rights for Mospeada. That sucks. I bet they KNEW any japanese manufacturer would do better Legioss than theirs. I hope they do at least 1/100 versions to match their upcoming VF-1 line.

By the way, does anybody knows if Toynami showed the Beta-Tread at the latest NY ToyFair? This is getting closer and closer to vaporwear.

369857[/snapback]

Toynazi

Let's fight for open standard toymodels and break the HG vendor lock!

[jenius]

Sorry, I didn't know Toynazi hold the worldwide rights for Mospeada. That sucks. I bet they KNEW any japanese manufacturer would do better Legioss than theirs. I hope they do at least 1/100 versions to match their upcoming VF-1 line.

Couple issues.

1) A 1/100 Alpha would be less than 4" tall.

2) The rights for MOSPEADA were not a winner in Japan. The original toy line failed to gather very much attention so no company in Japan wanted to jump on the Legioss project.

3) You should be grateful that Toynami did make the Legioss/Alpha MPC. It has certainly helped rekindle interest in a toy design that was fading off into the sunset.

4) While I supported the Gakken about a year ago, it has since become apparent to me that the Gakken is inferior to the Toynami. I've made several rants on why so I won't bother you with them now.

[trueblueeyes]

I don't have the patience for Robotech.com, and I didn't see mention of it in the Toy Fair thread in the Toys section. Was the Beta in Toynami's line up this year? Any news on what its current status is?

[jenius]

Robotech.com is certainly no well-spring of information anyway. As far as I know the Beta has gone underground temporarily. I heard nothing about it being at any subsequent toy fares.

[Lonely Soldier Boy]

Let's fight for open standard toymodels and break the HG vendor lock!

Toy collectors of the world United!!!

Couple issues.

1) A 1/100 Alpha would be less than 4" tall.

2) The rights for MOSPEADA were not a winner in Japan. The original toy line failed to gather very much attention so no company in Japan wanted to jump on the Legioss project.

3) You should be grateful that Toynami did make the Legioss/Alpha MPC. It has certainly helped rekindle interest in a toy design that was fading off into the sunset.

4) While I supported the Gakken about a year ago, it has since become apparent to me that the Gakken is inferior to the Toynami. I've made several rants on why so I won't bother you with them now.

1) Yeah, I forgot about the size. They would be rather difficult to handle, wouldn't they?

2) I realize that, but I bet it did better than Megazone 23. Besides there's not much more to do with the Garland mold besides probably a military scheme (or a stealth version ).

3) Don't get me wrong. I love each one of my Masterpiece Alphas. I just don't like that monopolist policy of whiping every potential competitor. Competition after all benefits us consumers. If Yamato didn't made the 1/48 VF-1 line, I'd have to buy the Masterpiece edition ones. Yamato won my buck with a better product, and that's fair.

4) I totally agree with you on this. I've never owned a Gakken, and never will if they cost less than a Banpresto (and I have a few ).