Knights Of The Old Republic II

[HWR MKII]

I just got this last week and i have to say it makes ESB look like EP1 in the way it starts.

Ihad a chill seeing the Ebon Hawk drifting with a gaping hole down the right side.

[twich]

Well, I played it and beat it.....I have to say that I was very disappointed with the title in that the end sucked ass, in my opinion, plus I didnt get my lightsaber constructed until I was level 15, my ultimate level was Level 16 Jedi Guardian, Level 10 Jedi Weapon Master. I was kinda disappointed in the character development with regards to the rest of the crew, by far a substandard game compared to the original.

But that is just my opinion, but I am a huge Star Wars freak, and I didnt think it lived up to the name of Knights of the Old Republic.

Twich

Edited January 16, 2005 by twich

[David Hingtgen]

KOTOR 2 has a great concept/story, just lacks in execution.

And level 15 is about as fast as you can possibly get a lightsaber. 14 if you try. I got real sick of "random items" real fast. I spent a while experimenting with looting bodies etc, seeing what I got, then reloading. Items varied from nothing, to double-bladed lightsabers. Yup. Looking for a purple short saber? Just keep reloading. Might get a breath mask, might get nothing, might get a yellow double-saber...

Ending is "total cop-out". IMHO. Especially the "we're not QUITE mocking the players" line at the very very end of "Did you think there was some big revelation at the end? Something that would shatter your perceptions to the very core? No, there's only you". (I don't think that's a spoiler, since they're saying that there is no big spoiler in the game) Don't worry about getting spoiled much in KOTOR 2, there isn't some big secret/revelation. Or if there is a few things that might be considered as such, they're ultra-obvious. If you guess something, you're right.

[HWR MKII]

right now im stuck on the tank droid so i have to restart and get more grenades made because i dont have enough chemicals to make them in the old facility. i plan on going to dantooine asap to get the saber underway. i believe that this story is just the middle of a long series planned by bioware. the only way to make the series better would be to get the origional sith wasr writers for dark horse comics to write it. i know there arent any huge revelations compared to part 1. that would be tough to top. i still think that twist still beats out the "I am your father" in ESB

[mikeszekely]

right now im stuck on the tank droid so i have to restart and get more grenades made because i dont have enough chemicals to make them in the old facility. i plan on going to dantooine asap to get the saber underway. i believe that this story is just the middle of a long series planned by bioware. the only way to make the series better would be to get the origional sith wasr writers for dark horse comics to write it. i know there arent any huge revelations compared to part 1. that would be tough to top. i still think that twist still beats out the "I am your father" in ESB

KOTOR II, in my opinion, is really borderlining on fan-made game. I mean, Obsidian took KOTOR's engine, and basically crafted a buggier game that's shorter and has a much weaker story. Plus, as previously mentioned, it takes FOREVER to get a lightsaber. Prestige classes for your main character and a few extra Force powers don't quite make up for the fact that KOTOR II is essentially a rush job. In the end, I'd say the only area where KOTOR II really shines is characters... while some of the characters, including ALL of the villians, are sorely under-developed, other characters were rather interesting.

BTW, the way I beat that tank droid was to leave my party in the control room nearby, the go face it myself. I'd throw some Force Lightning at it (Dark Side or Light Side, Force Lightning is the best Force power in the game), then run away, heal up a bit, charge back in with more Force Lightning, etc, until it was dead.

[Seven]

I loved the first one and I'm close to finishing the second one now. It definitely feels like a game that was rushed to market. The game is buggy as hell, but so was the first one. I think Obsidian got really lazy with the environments since most levels are small and a lot of them consist of dark corridors, with the exception of Dxun. The first one had a lot more variety with levels from vast deserts to underwater scenarios to space ships.

Other thing, they still haven't fixed that a lot of the NPCs look the same. So if you go to Dantooine, you might meet a guy that looks EXACTLY like a guy you met on Onderon. Someone earlier mentioned that there is a lack in the character development part, and they are entirely right. In the first game, each character got an equal share of development, but in this one, they feel like cardboard cutout stereotypes, with probably the exception of Kreia (who is hard to figure out). The other bad thing is some characters may prematurely be cut off from any development due to your affinity to the dark or light side, so you never get to hear anything of interest from those party members - EVER.

There also seems to be a lot less action in this one as well. There were at least five different times in the first game where battles were really challenging. In this game, one could get through the whole game without even using a lightsaber. And that's not a challenge, since lightsabers are really really scarce in the game.

The main story feels like it could have really interesting, but not much happens to advance this plot while you are endlessly running other people's errands - which this game has you do ALOT.

I'm still going to finish it, but it's alot less engrossing than the first game.

[eugimon]

got it. played it. beat it. currently in my pile of games to trade when something good comes out.

This game was definitely rushed to market... at the end, there are plot threads that are just dropped and then ending is completely unsatisfying some huge questions remain.

And I agree, the battles were very easy, with a lightsaber, ridiculously so.

This game is a pass... I played the first KtOR through three times.. this one I wouldn't bother playing again.

[eugimon]

right now im stuck on the tank droid so i have to restart and get more grenades made because i dont have enough chemicals to make them in the old facility. i plan on going to dantooine asap to get the saber underway. i believe that this story is just the middle of a long series planned by bioware. the only way to make the series better would be to get the origional sith wasr writers for dark horse comics to write it. i know there arent any huge revelations compared to part 1. that would be tough to top. i still think that twist still beats out the "I am your father" in ESB

KOTOR II, in my opinion, is really borderlining on fan-made game. I mean, Obsidian took KOTOR's engine, and basically crafted a buggier game that's shorter and has a much weaker story. Plus, as previously mentioned, it takes FOREVER to get a lightsaber. Prestige classes for your main character and a few extra Force powers don't quite make up for the fact that KOTOR II is essentially a rush job. In the end, I'd say the only area where KOTOR II really shines is characters... while some of the characters, including ALL of the villians, are sorely under-developed, other characters were rather interesting.

BTW, the way I beat that tank droid was to leave my party in the control room nearby, the go face it myself. I'd throw some Force Lightning at it (Dark Side or Light Side, Force Lightning is the best Force power in the game), then run away, heal up a bit, charge back in with more Force Lightning, etc, until it was dead.

haha, I just left a bunch of mines there for it and then shot it a few times.

[HWR MKII]

ill try thr mine trick before i head into the complex. I was also considering going into solo mode then stealthing and lobbing ion grenades at it. same way i took out the rancor in part 1. Keep away and throw things. i just need more grenades and i have no chemicals.

[lord_breetai]

SPOILERS

I'm enjoying it so far... in some ways a vast imporvment on the original... but the story could have used work.

I of course still enjoy all the Tales of the Jedi references.

Having every organic with the exception of Mandolore turn into a jedi was cheezy

The story could have been more solid.

So far... beaten: Dantooine and Nar Shadaa... working on Onderon... like I said I'm enjoying the game... but it could have used some more work.

Also... I havn't fixed HK-47 yet although my brother had at this point? Did I miss something thereby screwing myself over... I'm sure I looted all the HK-50s, I've fought.

Edited January 17, 2005 by lord_breetai

[eugimon]

gotta talk to ALL the droid parts sellers out there, they sell the components needed to put him back together.

[Panzer]

I bought this game on Friday too! weird.

anyways, I never played the first one so this game wasn't spoiled for me because of hype or expectations.

I like it so far. And I seriously wonder if people are critical of this game because they expected so much of it. I feel that if it was anything short of the second coming people would rag on it, and this has proven to be the case.

I still have to put another couple hours into it thought cuz I'm still undecided. nothing compares to Star Wars Battlefront though, that game online flat out rules. Talk about gaming for hours on end. guess I'm just more of an action/shooting game fan anyways..

[Seven]

I bought this game on Friday too! weird.

anyways, I never played the first one so this game wasn't spoiled for me because of hype or expectations.

I like it so far. And I seriously wonder if people are critical of this game because they expected so much of it. I feel that if it was anything short of the second coming people would rag on it, and this has proven to be the case.

I still have to put another couple hours into it thought cuz I'm still undecided. nothing compares to Star Wars Battlefront though, that game online flat out rules. Talk about gaming for hours on end. guess I'm just more of an action/shooting game fan anyways..

Play the first one and you'll realize the difference yourself. There is no "hype" factor ala Halo. These are criticisms pretty much founded in fact. The environments are smaller, lightsabers are more scarce, difficulty is easy in comparison, the game is very buggy, and the story is less involved and characters lack in development.

Many people expect that when a sequel to a game is released, improvements will be made in graphics, sound, gameplay, and for a game like this, storyline as well. KOTR2 fails to meet those expectations. People would love to love this game, that's why the first one was popular. It was up to Obsidian to deliver and they failed.

[fearyaks]

I loved the first one. My wife is currently playing KOTOR II while I toil away on our PC playing Pirates! and WoW. I plan on diving into KOTOR II when it's released on the PC (we'll have two versions in our house) as the load times in the 1st one drove me insane.

[HWR MKII]

i think another reason it isnt being as well recieved is the fact after playing through the first one and getting used to all the eye candy that was there your actually able to "see" the game. no pun intended on the suprising amounts of blind characters in the game.

i stated before that this is another game in what will probably be a big series. part one was to set up the current galaxy as seen 4000 years before epi1 whereas part 2 will expand a bit further part 3 will probably be the best one once it comes out.

i like how this story is a little spookier than the first. from the ominous start to the 2 sithlords who defy all known uses of the force. one is a force black hole and the other uses the dark side to keep himself together.

[Southpaw Samurai]

gotta talk to ALL the droid parts sellers out there, they sell the components needed to put him back together.

Especially if you want the compassion chip (or whatever it was called). It's a great add-in and I sort of wish they allowed you to keep it in.

I think part of the problem with KOTOR2 is that, despite the sub-title 'Sith Lords' and the over exposed nature of the two, they really don't make any kind of impact, both in terms of storyline or difficulty. They get short, quick scenes, fight you, and die even quicker. They make Darth Maul appear to be well-developed in TPM in comparison.

<SPOILERS, although cryptic enough it's almost safe>

.

.

.

.

They serve as examples of what the potential of the main potential 'baddie' might become, but as anyone who reached the end can attest, even that thread is left open and in a sort of unsatisfying way, no matter what choices you make. There is no sacrifice, no glory, no nothing. Despite choices suggested moments before the ending, the actual ending seems to defy them all. It's perhaps left open ended enough for another sequel, but it should have provided some closure.

Speaking of which, I do sort of wish TK-47 had his storyline go somewhere. While I don't need a non-force sensitive combat-heavy character in my party, having him for a completion of his sub story would've been enjoyable enough to do, just for his comments.

.

.

.

<END SPOILERS>

I enjoyed myself while playing just about as much as KOTOR1. It probably helped that through luck I had no glitches (well, aside from Bao Dur suddenly clamming up despite generally being on great terms with me), actually had my lightsaber at the end of my second planet, and had found decent ones for my fellow Jedi. And as much as it was a pain to go back to non-force users a few times it was forced on you (mainly because force users make the game too easy), I enjoyed having to take some of the other other characters out for parts. But it's the whole 3rd Act that seems to close up too quickly, too easily, and although I did enjoy what the game was trying to say, it was all too anti-climatic.

[Panzer]

I think you guys might expect too much from your Star Wars games...

SW: Battlefront sure as hell delivered for me though. I don't even play Halo 2 online much anymore, just Battlefront.

[Seven]

I think you guys might expect too much from your Star Wars games...

SW: Battlefront sure as hell delivered for me though. I don't even play Halo 2 online much anymore, just Battlefront.

I think you expect too little for the hard earned 50 bucks that these games cost.

Battlefront is fun as hell though. Playing as the destroyer droid makes things too easy though.

[lord_breetai]

I think you guys might expect too much from your Star Wars games... 

SW: Battlefront sure as hell delivered for me though. I don't even play Halo 2 online much anymore, just Battlefront.

I think you expect too little for the hard earned 50 bucks that these games cost.

Battlefront is fun as hell though. Playing as the destroyer droid makes things too easy though.

I dunno... I think Kotor II was worth it... story characters and gameplay arn't bad.... and

Spoilers

Kotor I offered no challange at all... but... once you get to Malachor V... oh my god... I'm fighting who I assume is the end boss now... managed to get past the first form (after quite a few tries), but once I offered my mercy... and said boss kicked into mode... ouch.

Malak was a sissy... even with all his extra lives... a bunch of destroy droid spells on his captive Jedi... bang... take him out... bain... but this girl ain't no Malak-sissy... she's helluva tough.

and Mira and Handmaiden rock ^^.

Edit: Oh... being an Edmontonian... I was among the biggest worries about it not being done by Bioware (I have some civic pride you know ^^) ... and the fact that Edmonton organizations like Noble House Kenjistu worked to do the Saber coreography in the first game was just cool. So I was prepaird to hate Kotor II when I started playing it (like I hated Baulder's Gate Dark Alliance) cause it was "stolen" from the home town boys (I know it wasn't stolen)... but I like it.

And I had just finnished reading my Tales of the Jedi graphic novel that talked about Ulic and freedon Nadd and Exar Kun before I started playing... I just finnished reading abour Onderon and Duxun in the Graphic novel... so it was really cool seeing that brought to life in the game.

Edited January 18, 2005 by lord_breetai

[lord_breetai]

Okay I take it back... the ending was... ehhh

Spoilers

You know all the cool stuff Keria told me about what would happen to everyone. Confirming my suspision that Mandalore was Canderous... that was all cool. But I would have liked to have seen a proper ending... like maybe having seen him say goodbye to Mira and the others before he struck off for the great beyond... or to say, "no screw you Kreia I'm staying". The ending was kinda sad... and a little unfullfilling.

And once I knew the trick to runaway and take the lightsabers out one at a time, her second mode was more of a push over then Malak.

Edit: and what about the thing ith Go-to and the remote at the end? I would have liked to see how that played out. Obviously the remote must have got the upper hand... I had assumed we'd see that... ehhh.

Edited January 19, 2005 by lord_breetai

[mikeszekely]

anyways, I never played the first one so this game wasn't spoiled for me because of hype or expectations.

I wouldn't say that expectations were spoiled because we played the first one... it's just KOTOR II is built on the original KOTOR's engine, so it doesn't offer up any real improvements. And, KOTOR II is buggier and shorter, with a weaker story (and some plot points that they just never finished fleshing out) and some unimpressive characters. Seriously, the best character was actually rehashed from the first KOTOR! (Although I do have to say, Atton and Handmaiden are way cooler than Carth and Bastila... now that I think about it, I didn't care for too many characters from either KOTOR.) No plusses and a few minuses mean that KOTOR II just isn't as good as the original.

That's really not to say that KOTOR II is a bad game, though. It's just a little rushed through development (it originally wasn't supposed to be out until February), and Obsidian just isn't the developer that Bioware is (although few are). If you loved KOTOR, you should at least enjoy KOTOR II. And if you like KOTOR II, and never played the first, do yourself the favor and play it!

As for Battlefront, it was fun in a sort of "kill everything that moves like it's Dynasty Warriors" sort of way, but it got real old, real fast. I can't believe you're playing that online more than Halo 2. Halo 2's multiplayer is the only thing that redeems its let-down of a campaign mode.

[DARTHTODD]

For those of us who didn't like the ending, there's a petition being signed urging LucasArts to restore the material that was originally planned (and cut so they could get the game out before xmas).

petition

A lot of these cut out parts are surfacing online (they're real). You can find them in the files for the pc version.

[David Hingtgen]

Glad someone else brought this up. Basically:

"Hey, there's a whole lot more backstory for the characters, and a long, satisfying, multi-branching cool ending! We just left it out of the final version, but 99% of it is still on the disc, inaccessible"

Read most of it here:

http://forums.obsidianent.com/index.php?sh...pic=29764&st=15

4th post, much easier to read than the "raw" dialogue.

[mikeszekely]

Well, rumor has it that Obsidian is working on KOTOR III, and that some of the content culled from KOTOR II will be in KOTOR III. Let's just hope they don't cut stuff from that one for whatever reason (although leaving games hanging worse than Halo seems to be Lucasarts' MO lately... check out Republic Commando and see what I mean).

[Magnus]

It started off great, but slid into mediocrity and nonsense by the end. I was pretty disappointed. There were a LOT of dangling threads left open, not to mention contradictions (shouldn't the main character have died when Kreia was killed, due to that whole Force bond thing?)

Ah well

[David Hingtgen]

But there's no way the ENDING of Kotor 2 could be put into Kotor 3. This isn't a planet, scenario, villain, etc. This is simply the ending and it really wouldn't fit into another game.

[JsARCLIGHT]

I myself was waiting for this game with such jacked-up glee... only to have all my hopes and dreams smashed when I finally bought it and played it. This game on PC is abysmal. Bugs, glitches and an overall terrible, shoddy, half-assed effort from start to finish... of course, that would imply that I actually got to finish it. After about the tenth time my game crashed to the desktop, locked up or crashed to the title screen and locked up it corrupted my savegame and prevented me from playing any further.

I do not see how a game that used the same game engine as KOTOR 1 can become so inconceivably buggy and crappy overnight? I have a very high end machine and it held down KOTOR 1 and beat it to a pulp... I was running almost max resolution with max pretties with not a single problem or hiccup. This game is almost unrunable in spots. Framerates for some reason go from smooth as silk to garbage (causing crashes of course), camera work in cinematics seem to always put the camera inside something like a character or wall and the enemy and NPC AI is abysmal.

I'm not even going to comment on the story because I was severely unimpressed until my game ceased to let me play it. All I can say is it took Bioware to make a wonderful game and it took Obsidian to ruin it in a day. Perhaps years down the road if they finaly actually patch this POS game I might give it another look-in but as of right now I will avoid it like the plauge.

[mikeszekely]

But there's no way the ENDING of Kotor 2 could be put into Kotor 3. This isn't a planet, scenario, villain, etc. This is simply the ending and it really wouldn't fit into another game.

Yeah, the actual stuff in the ending wouldn't do to appear in another game. I was refering more to what G0-T0 was doing to Bao Dur's remote, and the HK Factory.

[HWR MKII]

Well having played it now i have to say i dont like it for the reasons im going to list.1 your character seems to miss the target in melee more times than hit no matter what weapons or skill you use.2 the AI on your party members is too dumb for the way they wanted the game to work 3 i preferred having my party members self heal instead of having to stop in the middle of a fight and do it for them.4 I KNEW THE BIG BOSS WAS MALAK FROM THE FIRST TIME HE APPEARED! what other character introduced into the game would have to wheeze becuase he had no lower jaw and have the ability to suck the life out of something. 5 too much jumping around to complete story bits.

I know this is an RPG but for crap sake there was alot in the gameplay itself that took away from enjoying the game itself. Oh and one last detail, YOUR PARTY MEMBERS ARE NO BETTER THAN CANNON FODDER.

Edited March 7, 2005 by HWR MKII

[mikeszekely]

Well having played it now i have to say i dont like it for the reasons im going to list.1 your character seems to miss the target in melee more times than hit no matter what weapons or skill you use.2 the AI on your party members is too dumb for the way they wanted the game to work 3 i preferred having my party members self heal instead of having to stop in the middle of a fight and do it for them.4 I KNEW THE BIG BOSS WAS MALAK FROM THE FIRST TIME HE APPEARED! what other character introduced into the game would have to wheeze becuase he had no lower jaw and have the ability to suck the life out of something. 5 too much jumping around to complete story bits.

I know this is an RPG but for crap sake there was alot in the gameplay itself that took away from enjoying the game itself. Oh and one last detail, YOUR PARTY MEMBERS ARE NO BETTER THAN CANNON FODDER.

Except that Malak isn't the big boss. (And Malak isn't Nihilus, either, if that's what you're thinking.)

Hell, while I'm at it... SPOILERS!

Nihilus isn't the big boss either. In fact, he's almost like a waste of space. He's on the cover, there's cut scenes in the game that make him seem like a huge threat, etc, but you fight him and kill him pretty quick.

The actual big boss in the game is Kreia, that old Jedi hag who's with you for most of the game.