Do You Remember Love WTF

[Protocultureshock]

So I walk into the videostore today and look through the bargain rentals pile and guess what I find? Macross: Do You Remember Love?. All these memories of seeing Macross on TV started flooding back to me, and it hit me that the tall green guys' ships were flippin' sweet, and I wanted to check them out again. I also remembered that Macross was made into Robotech on TV when I was like 9, which absolutely sucked. Anyway, I go home with my video and put it in VCR. My dad walks through the room, and I force him to stay because I swear to him that Bodolza's flippin' sweet ships will start kicking ass soon. And guess what? We have to suffer through like half an hour of listening to bad pop songs and observing some phenominally stupid love triangle go through its various obscene convulsions, just so we could get to see some Zentradi heads get popped. Who else here agrees with me that this movie, despite its kick-ass animation, shweet mech action and pretty colors, absolutely sucked??

[striderhiryu]

don't count me in. i love this movie.

[UN Spacy]

Get the FU@K out!

You're crazy.

[Protocultureshock]

I guess the story just wasn't for me. It seemed like the love story was so much involved in this one than in the TV show. I think the story would have kicked ass if they were to somehow put emphasis on that blue haired guy and the Meltradi girl, rather than Hikaru having to put up with some actress bitch and some wierd older woman.

The action still BLEW MY MIND. Seeing some Zentraedi getting gored by those female battle-armours made the whole thing worth it for me.

[striderhiryu]

macross DYRL is a movie centered around the love triangle with the space war as background, the reason why the concept of love has higuer priority over the war concept is because that feeling is what saves humanity in the last moment, also the music in the last battle is what triggers something that makes the zentradi to fight on the UN spacy side.

and what do you mean with some old lady... misa is not THAT old, i think she's like 18 yeras old. and if she is a little grumpy is because she is on the military since her family members were also military.

[Protocultureshock]

You guys must be pretty hardcore. I know this is way off topic, but I like Macross in general, and maybe one of you could quickly clarify some stuff that's been bugging the heck out of me ever since I first saw Robotech on TV. The Macross doesn't look like a Zentraedi ship. Where did it come from? And who's idea was it to booby-trap the defense system so that it shot at the Zentraedis when they came to Earth?

[striderhiryu]

you should check out the newbie topic at the top, by the way the macross is not a zentradi ship but an inspection army gun ship. you can also go to the macross compendium, just type it on any search engine and you'll find the site. hope this helps you.

[azrael]

Jeez...not another one.

Some helpful links (which you should read first):

http://www.anime.net/macross/

http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=140

http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=228

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

When I first saw the movie as a kid I hated the love triangle bits as well and was watching it for the animation. I was amzed at how smooth and detailed the scenes were. But without Minmay and Misa, it just wouldn't be the same.

Imagine if the Zentradi and UN spacy had to go all out in a war to see who has the better military muscle. Humans would get thier asses kicked, sdf1 would lose the fight because they wouldn't have the same opportunity to beat the aliens by themselves, and the idea of even having a living city on a ship floating in space would be pointless imo.

The 'living city in ship' aspect was handled better in the series than in the movie imo because it helps us see why the zentradi are so keen to leave thier own life behind. They are enticed by all the shopping malls, hot women, food, entertainment, toys (I saw astroboy model kits in the series ) music, porn, party atmosphere, our ability to protest etc basically the civilian life onboard. Above all of this: love in the form of max and milias wedding which proves peace between two differing races from different cultural backgrounds can be achieved. Because the Zentradi were not told about all these things the PC had, they would have been curious about our lives and wondered why thiers sucked so much. The true 'culture shock' would be all this activity onboard the sdf1 and not lie solely on an ancient tune that magically unlocks a recessed memory.

In the tv series you gradually see them changing thier ways. Whereas in the movie it's because of some ancient memory plate that makes them remember a time before they all became clone warriors used as specialised killing machines but it all happens at the last minute, and because of this I find that hard to swallow. I liked how it was presented but I'm going to be honest and say that what really drew me into it was more the action scenes. I still think the love triangle is necessary, and that the 'music' was a crucual part of macross, but the tv series is more believable.

Edited January 15, 2005 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[Ido]

DYRL works well as a tv series addition, I don't think it says too much to who hasn't watched SDF Macross(not robotech), but as you said you watched it, it's rare that someone who like SDF Macross dislike DYRL, maybe you got wrong Macross and thinked it was just a war a cool mecha anime, love story and songs are very important in each Macross anime, it's an anime about love and against war in the end, not about aliens kicks human butts. Maybe of all Macross you would like better Macross zero.

I appreciate that you told us your thought about dyrl even if negative

[Nightbat]

Yes People!!!

It's time for yet another episode of:

[Duke Togo]

I say we let Strider here gut him.

[striderhiryu]

already have my cypher falchion on hand. it stings.... REALLY¡¡¡

[Gaijin]

And what VHS copy of DYRL was this btw? Clash of The Bioroids?

BTW, if Strider declines, I will gladly offer the use of another sword.

Edited January 15, 2005 by Gaijin

[striderhiryu]

by the way Nightbat®, your image made me laugh, wish someone started a new topic maybe at fanworks where anyone can posts images like that one.

[CoryHolmes]

DYRL only works when you have extensive knowledge of the TV series. As a stand-alone story, it fails miserably and is reduced to simple eyecandy and nothing more.

You get absolutly none of the backstory or history behind the characters and what motivates them. Roy and Claudia, arguably one of the most important love stories in SDF Macross got a total of... what? Six whole seconds of screen time, if you want to be generous. The hows and whys that made Macross such a ground-breaking show for its time simply got glossed over with the attempt to cram as many new and shiny toys onto the screen as was possible.

But the single, unmitigated failure that DYRL commited was the fact that it can not be viewed as a complete story in of and by itself. It's been proven time and time again that eyecandy != a good story, and DYRL just didn't have that story by itself. And what little story it brings to the table, it slams it into the viewers face with a deux ex machina gimmick that is simply inexcusable.

The characters are shallow versions of themselves, major plot points have been gutted or deleted entierly, and what is left from SDF was changed on an artists' whim for little apparent reason other than the ability to change it was presented during the movie.

There, I've said my piece. Let the flaming begin.

EDIT

On the flipside, DYRLs animation stands up to some of the best that can be produced today, even surpasing some CGI work that gets released. From a technical standpoint, DYRL was so far ahead of its time that it took two decades to appreicate that sort of skill.

Edited January 15, 2005 by CoryHolmes

[VF5SS]

There, I've said my piece. Let the flaming begin.

You're a dick. A big Robotechie dick.

[JB0]

*applauds*

DYRL is beautiful, no one will dare argue that. It's even got some interesting changes relative to the original TV series.

But it's just not a complete story, which makes it hard to enjoy.

[JELEINEN]

DYRL only works when you have extensive knowledge of the TV series. As a stand-alone story, it fails miserably and is reduced to simple eyecandy and nothing more.

You get absolutly none of the backstory or history behind the characters and what motivates them. Roy and Claudia, arguably one of the most important love stories in SDF Macross got a total of... what? Six whole seconds of screen time, if you want to be generous. The hows and whys that made Macross such a ground-breaking show for its time simply got glossed over with the attempt to cram as many new and shiny toys onto the screen as was possible.

But the single, unmitigated failure that DYRL commited was the fact that it can not be viewed as a complete story in of and by itself. It's been proven time and time again that eyecandy != a good story, and DYRL just didn't have that story by itself. And what little story it brings to the table, it slams it into the viewers face with a deux ex machina gimmick that is simply inexcusable.

The characters are shallow versions of themselves, major plot points have been gutted or deleted entierly, and what is left from SDF was changed on an artists' whim for little apparent reason other than the ability to change it was presented during the movie.

There, I've said my piece. Let the flaming begin.

EDIT

On the flipside, DYRLs animation stands up to some of the best that can be produced today, even surpasing some CGI work that gets released. From a technical standpoint, DYRL was so far ahead of its time that it took two decades to appreicate that sort of skill.

I disagree. I saw DYRL? years before I ever saw the TV series (or even any other Macross series, for that matter), and I enjoyed it quite a bit. Yes, there were nuances I missed, but I had no problem understanding the movie over all.

[Radd]

I have to disagree with both ProtocultureShock, and with Corey on this one. ProtoCultureShock, DYRL? is not a fast paced movie, and it simply sounds like you're not the type who appreciates a slower, more character-centric movie. I take that by your constant references to the action, I may be wrong. However, if I'm not there's really nothing wrong with that either. Personal taste, you know? DYRL? has long stretches of character developement and story, heavy on the characters. If you're not into that, or the characters that are the centrepiece of the movie, you're probably still going to enjoy the beginning and the end, but want to fastforward through a big chunk of the middle.

This brings me to just why I disagree with Corey. I think DYRL? has plenty of story, and plenty of character developement. I had seen Robotech and Macross II before walking into DYRL?, and that was enough to have me know the basics, and what I didn't know from those, such as the differences of the term Protoculture, were pretty easy to pick up on. On the other hand, I know several friends who saw DYRL? as their very first Macross experience, and they all loved it. None of them had any troubles following the plot, as there really are no gaping holes. An explanation of the situation leading up to the beginning of the movie is provided when Hikaru and Minmay are stuck together in the engine block, and everything else falls right into place as the movie progresses.

I also happen to believe that while the movie is far shorter than the tv series, the character developement was pulled off much better in the movie. Minmay is more likeable as a character, Hikaru's choices seem less foolish, the whole love triangle seems to flow better. To me, at least, and I realize I am in the minority here.

However, all is not lost for action fans. They can enjoy the absolutely wonderfully animated action sequences at the very least, and there are other offerings in the Macross continuity that also serve up big helpings in that area. If, on the other hand, you can appreciate the character developement and slower moving segments of the movie, it's practically flawless.

[Nightbat]

It took me 3 viewings of "Akira" to understand this "Masterpiece of Anime", it took

me 2 to understand "Ghost in the Shell", "Visions of Escaflowne" wasn't worth

watching a 2nd time

All have their plotholes, shortcomings, and fast pace

If there's one thing I learned about Anime:

A lot of times you get dropped in the middle of the story and the answers about

how and where it all began are given thoughout the viewing

this also holds true for the aforementioned animes and DYRL

And those who think DYRL doesn't have enough action:

I guess you've never watched Patlabor

[EXO]

Who else here agrees with me that this movie, despite its kick-ass animation, shweet mech action and pretty colors, absolutely sucked??

Yeah I guess if you took Star Wars and took out all the space ships and creatures, all the special effects and the music... well at the end all you get is some kid walking in the desert...

[BOUNTY HAUNTER]

The bottom line is that if you're one of those people who watches a movie (anime or otherwise) just for the explosions and gore then you really don't need to waste your time with Macross or Robotech.

That's not what it's about.

What makes Macross/Robotech great is that it's about character relationships set against the "BACKDROP" of interstellar war. The battles and bloodshed are completely secondary to the relationships of the characters.

So if all you want to see is "some Zentraedi getting gored by those female battle-armours", and other mind-numbing random explosions...well...there are a number of perfectly good brain-dead Jerry Bruckheimer films you could go watch.

[Max Jenius]

DYRL is cool, but I fall asleep when Misa and Hikaru are on Earth. It picks up when the Macross finds them though.

[HWR MKII]

Nah. The techies are just jealous that HG hasnt sucked the release rights up into that copyright black hole they call robotech.

The first time i saw DYRL i only knew of RT. After seeing DYRL? i had to see the origional Macross i knew that the story had been hacked and mangled. So i started sucking up all the Macross i could get my hands on. This was back in 1995 before the days of bootleg DVD and an all access internet for downloading stuff. I managed to get my hands on a VHS fansub of the series, loved it and havnt looked back since. DYRL? was in unsubbed japanese and i still understood what was going on.

Sorry to all those who think that its eye candy. if a non japanese speaking person can follow the story without knowing the origins of the it than i think the story was pulled off very well.

sean

[EXO]

The bottom line is that if you're one of those people who watches a movie (anime or otherwise) just for the explosions and gore then you really don't need to waste your time with Macross or Robotech.

That's not what it's about.

What makes Macross/Robotech great is that it's about character relationships set against the "BACKDROP" of interstellar war. The battles and bloodshed are completely secondary to the relationships of the characters.

So if all you want to see is "some Zentraedi getting gored by those female battle-armours", and other mind-numbing random explosions...well...there are a number of perfectly good brain-dead Jerry Bruckheimer films you could go watch.

Way to contradict yourself... first you say that DYRL doesn't have enough action, but now your saying that action should just be the backdrop to a story... what's the complaint again?

[BOUNTY HAUNTER]

Um...what?

I never said DYRL doesn't have enough action.

You evidently completely missed the point of what I said. Perhaps you should read a little more carefully before posting.

[do not disturb]

DYRL isn't my favorite either(dodges everyones desktop computers).

i mean the action sequence are super dope, the music...well lets not go there. i can see why the movie would confuse someone who never watched the TV series.

i lent DYRL to my older brother the other day(as well as macross plus, he thought that was awesome) and he thought DYRL was alright but his biggest complaint was he couldn't figure out WTF was going? that and the music, oh! that terrible music! we watched robotech when we were kids but he felt the movie and the series were so different from one another. i tried to explain to him why DYRL was made the way it was but he thought the TV series was 100 times better....to each his own i guess.

in any case, its safe to say he'll never watch DYRL again because of the chopped up story line, the music(while important, its annoying as shiet IMO) and the lack of action scenes.

to be brutally honestly, i could care less about minmei, misa or any other chick on the show, i want to see more action! i wanna see some VF's kicking the crap out of the zentradi. i know macross wouldn't be the same without the whole protoculture bit, but why not more arse kicking scenes? and lose the damn music, atleast don't play the whole damn song like they do in any other movie.

now everyone can sharpen their pitchforks and get their nooses ready.

[EXO]

So you just didn't like the story? It's the same as SDF Macross... the pop songs were the same ones from the series? I'm just baffled by the word you chose to describe it, which was "sucks".... As far as I know, DYRL has a far better story than tons of the animes out there.

[eugimon]

Personally, I think DYRL is full of character development... Hikaru and Misa undergo some pretty dramatic growths. And for those that say what happened to Roy and Claudia and Max and whoever else.. tough, the movie was about Hikaru and Misa as the central characters. In the same way that X-men is an enemble cast but the movie obviously centered around wolverine and rouge.

hikaru goes from a shy rookie to a mature and confident leader.

Misa goes from a cold duty driven officer to someone who is more in touch with her feelings and core humanity.

As for the story, I thought DYRL hits all the major plot points... humanity united by an outside threat, humanity the result of genetic manipulation by Protoculture humanity saved by the power of love through a simple song. Things like the relationship between Roy and Claudia were handled beautifully in the debriefing after Hikaru and Misa get picked up by the SDF. Sure they didn't dwell on it and they didn't explicitly show the relationship.. but seeing the contained emotion of Claudia as well as Roy's last words are more than enough to give the viewer a complete idea of the scope of their love.

The movie even manages to touch upon Max and Miria, resolves the relationship between Misa and minmei, breetai and exedore and the rest of the zentradi.

I love DYRL.. I find that not only is it beautifully animated, the characters and story hold up very well and don't feel nearly as dated as the original series.

[BOUNTY HAUNTER]

to be brutally honestly, i could care less about minmei, misa or any other chick on the show, i want to see more action!  i wanna see some VF's kicking the crap out of the zentradi.  i know macross wouldn't be the same without the whole protoculture bit, but why not more arse kicking scenes?  and lose the damn music, atleast don't play the whole damn song like they do in any other movie. 

Yeah, no wonder you didn't like it. Minmei's music is pretty much the backbone of the whole story.

Based on your comments, I would direct you to my above "Jerry Bruckheimer" comment.

But hey...to each his own.

I think it's safe to say that DYRL is...a strange cinematic animal. But it sure is pretty to look at.

[Protocultureshock]

DYRL only works when you have extensive knowledge of the TV series. As a stand-alone story, it fails miserably and is reduced to simple eyecandy and nothing more.

You get absolutly none of the backstory or history behind the characters and what motivates them. Roy and Claudia, arguably one of the most important love stories in SDF Macross got a total of... what? Six whole seconds of screen time, if you want to be generous. The hows and whys that made Macross such a ground-breaking show for its time simply got glossed over with the attempt to cram as many new and shiny toys onto the screen as was possible.

But the single, unmitigated failure that DYRL commited was the fact that it can not be viewed as a complete story in of and by itself. It's been proven time and time again that eyecandy != a good story, and DYRL just didn't have that story by itself. And what little story it brings to the table, it slams it into the viewers face with a deux ex machina gimmick that is simply inexcusable.

This is probably why the movie didn't work for me. I only have a vague recollection of the TV show, at best.

What made me actually come home everyday to watch the first season of the Robotech show was the characters. Here, the characters stories seem rushed, and kind of fake.

Gore and explosions isn't all I look for in a movie, although it's certainly a plus. I did think that the whole concept of protoculture was neat, and that they should have spent some more time discussing this. But then again, you can't fit everything that was in the Macross TV show into a movie.

[do not disturb]

to be brutally honestly, i could care less about minmei, misa or any other chick on the show, i want to see more action!  i wanna see some VF's kicking the crap out of the zentradi.  i know macross wouldn't be the same without the whole protoculture bit, but why not more arse kicking scenes?  and lose the damn music, atleast don't play the whole damn song like they do in any other movie. 

Yeah, no wonder you didn't like it. Minmei's music is pretty much the backbone of the whole story.

Based on your comments, I would direct you to my above "Jerry Bruckheimer" comment.

But hey...to each his own.

I think it's safe to say that DYRL is...a strange cinematic animal. But it sure is pretty to look at.

yeah but the chick is singing in japanese, i have no idea what the heck she's singing about?

if i could understand the words, perhaps it would be more tolerable. yeah i know she sings the same songs in english, but listening to a japanese song in japanese is different from listening to a japanese song in english....ever heard any asian rap?

[bsu legato]

There, I've said my piece.  Let the flaming begin.

You're a dick. A big Robotechie dick.

Quoted for...well, it just made me laugh.

[Protocultureshock]

So you just didn't like the story? It's the same as SDF Macross... the pop songs were the same ones from the series? I'm just baffled by the word you chose to describe it, which was "sucks".... As far as I know, DYRL has a far better story than tons of the animes out there.

I felt that I needed to spit out something harsh if I wanted to spark some discussion here, but I guess I was wrong. I had no idea how lively this forum was.