Whats with all this Hasegawa bashing lately?

[wm cheng]

Hey what's going on?

Why is everyone bashing Hasegawa lately? I don't want to rant - don't read this with CAPs on - but I just have to pipe up. I love them (no, I don't work for them or have any family members who own stock in them ) They are my favourite aircraft injection styrene manufacturer if not the world's best manufacturer (with the possible exception of Tamiya when they make their own kits instead of reboxing others) in a rapidly dwindling hobby. Details withstanding, the quality of the styrene, the decals, the engineering with respect to build steps and painting is unequalled. How much bitching would be going on if AMT/ERTL got the licence to Robotech and were the only kits available?

Does anyone remember (or worst yet... built) the older IMAI or ARII kits of the 80's?! They were awful in every aspect, they were all pudgy and gawky in proportions and had next to nill poseablilty. The only good thing about them are my childhood memories and the boxart (IMHO). Hasegawa makes models, models by nature are miniature detailed replicas of something - mostly ment for display. If you want poseability or transformation, then get a toy, that's what they are for - of course toys sacrifice some proportions or details in favour of durability. Sorry I can't agree with anyone that says the Yamato toys are better proportioned than the Hasegawas - the Yamatos (which I love and own quite a few) are at best a compromise in every mode. Remember this was a hand drawn animation, even the originals are massively deformed from mode to mode - the artist just chose to make each mode asthetically more pleasing (at the expense of actual transformation). Additionally, lest we forget that even among the "canon" line art from Studio Nue - the panel line details and specs to the mech changes from drawing to drawing.

As far as I am concerned the Hasegawas represent the best in modelling technology - and the best proportions in fighter and battroid modes without sacrificing for transformation practicalities. Any movement and poseability is just an added bonus - but I have to admit, once I get it in a pose I like, my models are almost never moved from that pose. I have the Yamato toys to play with. But Hasegawas are eye candy - and as far as that is concerned, the additional "ad-libbed" panel lines and revit details just adds to that "wow-factor". Call it re-interpretation 20yrs after - at least all the inventions make sense from a realistic aircraft construction point of view. There could of been a lot of other arbritrary details that weren't appropriate that could of been added. When you have a flight line of Hasegawas starting from the VF-0, VF-1 to the YF-19 & YF-21 you see a steady progression of larger and larger panel segments and fewer and fewer revit details, which seems entirely appropriate for the different eras of aircraft construction. Similar to seeing the 60s Phantom, next to the 70s Tomcat, then 80s YF-22. Believe me, from someone who has built a few models in my time - I find the Hasegawas the best on the Market, and the fact that they chose to start concentrating on an entirely fictious subject (which is a departure for the company) that was over 20yrs old still seems like a dream to me!

(hop off my soap box now...)

If it weren't for the Hasegawa Macross kits, I doubt I would of gotten back into modelling after high-school.

Edited January 13, 2005 by wm cheng

[Gerwalker]

AMEN!!!

Most of the complains some people has with the Hase models (i.e. inaccuracies with respect to some line art) can be easily "fixed" even with some basic modelling skills. So, if they feel that the models are so "bad" Why don't they just fix them?

BTW: I love those models and even the ERRORS they have (some of those errors are big improvements!!)

[Gabe Q]

Amen to that.

Very well put. I whole heartedly agree. You have very clearly stated what I feel but was unable to articulate. We are very lucky to have Hasegawa Macross kits.

[Mechleader]

HERE HERE!

I Agree! And good points!!!!!

[Ranger565]

Heck I agree, Be happy to have a kit.

[Myersjessee]

HUZZAH! I couldn't agree more...and anything that keeps WMCheng modeling is a good thing!!!

[Less than Super Ostrich]

Double Huzzah!

They are indeed a dream to build. Just finished a Hasegawa Stuka and it was very easy to put together.

funny how those Luftwaffe fighters were built... how do they transform?

next project... a Messerschmitt Bf 109D in Gerwalk mode.

[HWR MKII]

i have no real problem with hasegawa either i was just a little suprised and p!ssed that they didnt put a little more thought into the shoulders of the battroid kit. i was also suprised at the inconsistent quality between the battroid and the strike options. i normally expect good quality from hase but i got a little less this time. as far as the acft kits i could care less about panel lines on the acft kits as long as the shape is right ,which it is. theres my 2 cents

sean

[phoenix01]

I love Hasegawa macross kits. Too bad my modeling skills just about suck. I'm fine until I do one of two things: airbrush or decal.

Just once I'd like to build a WCG (wm cheng grade) kit. It's the step beyond perfect grade.

[Myersjessee]

Double Huzzah!

They are indeed a dream to build. Just finished a Hasegawa Stuka and it was very easy to put together.

funny how those Luftwaffe fighters were built... how do they transform?

next project... a Messerschmitt Bf 109D in Gerwalk mode.

Man after my own heart...love WW2 aircraft. I want to build a super accurate Wildcat or Corsair someday (my two favorite WW2 aircraft)

[wm cheng]

WCG Ha!! LOL That's a good one! gotta tell the wife!

HWR MII, I too want to build a Hikaru's strike battroid at the end of DYRL (pretty far down on my list though) with the gun pointing at you, but I fully understand that I will have to do some major modifications to the shoulders and hips to get the battroid into that pose. There's certainly some animation magic going on in that pose - you can't even get a Yamato toy to do it properly. At least its an excellent base to build/modify upon.

[HWR MKII]

WM Cheng

i wasnt too concerned with the exact pose i just wanted to be able to have the arms raised period. with the kit wings as they were it was impossible. the soft plastic hase used also led to a shoulder pin breaking. fixed now and i have a good pose that i like with fully loaded wings. the person who did the figure pictured above also lowered the wings a little even though it wasnt needed in the end with the way he made the shoulders. i wasnt bashing hase in its entirety just simply posting my opinions on the kit. all other hasegawa kits thus far i have had no real problems with. they are the best macross kits around and i am appreciative for the work they put into the execution of their overall product .

sean

Edited January 13, 2005 by HWR MKII

[cobywan]

There is nothing to complain about with Hasegawa.

Except that they need to do Destroids and maybe a Zentrualdi or two.

They are great models. And easy to modify.

[Noyhauser]

Personally I love the Hase, models. I've got a few just waiting for construction, to go along with my already built ones.For Hasegawa, a company that has staked its claim on the modeling market based on realism and quality, to be doing Macross kits speaks volumes about the kits themselves. It was a dream come true when I first got a YF-21 in 1/72 scale. I don't think I've ever been as ecastic... except when I was building it. One of my friends is an excellent excellent 1/48th scale WW-2 plane modeler. He thinks science fiction modeling is "the dark side." But I told him that the most advanced kits hasegawa makes right now are the Macross line. I showed him the sprue and he was blown away. I had to buy him one for christmas because I knew he wanted it. I think the Accuracy far surpasses any plastic kit and they are only surpassed by ONE resin kit.

http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=12597

I think the biggest rant was a certain member who picked apart the model for its exact line art specifications. Actually the comments pissed me off to some degree. If the VF-1 was a REAL vehicle I think he may have had a legitimate gripe, but in truth it isn't and the Hase VF-1 is one of the closest interpretations you can get... by a company which makes some ofthe most accurate models in the world. To be honest I found some of the points he made were not very informed and did not reflect the truth behind how good hase models are.

I know I should have said something in that thread, but I'll say it here.

Edited January 13, 2005 by Noyhauser

[AlphaHX]

I have a problem with Hase!!

They need to make MORE!!! MORE I SAY!!! MORE!!!

Hehe... I love them. Cant wait for more of their Macross models.

[Knight26]

I've always loved the Hasagawas, the only thing, and it is a small thing, that I had against them was the leg angle in fighter mode, non-FP, but that was a minor gripe and nothing to bash over.

[broadshore]

I just wish Hasa would make a 1/48th scale Valkyer. There are so many decals I would love to place on a Marine Corp Version VF-1SER or SAW.

[Firefox]

Couldn't agree more. I've been dreaming of Hasegawa producing Macrosskits since childhood. It's a reality and I'm too happy for it. Judging the dwindling market of model kit, I could only pray hard they would come out with 1/48 kits. I'd at least get one or two.

[Graham]

I don't think anybody is really bashing Hasegawa's Macross kits. We all acknowledge that they are fantastic kits and light years ahead of the old badly proportioned and poorly detailed Arai and Imai Macross kits.

Even though I'm primarily a toy guy and couldn't paint a model kit to save my life, I still own several Hasegawa Macross kits that I had built for me and proudly display them together with my Macross toys.

They are great eye candy, but as a few of us pointed out, they are not 100% accurate to the line art in a few areas (although a damn sight more accurate than all toys ) and Hasegawa has added additional non-canon details. But in the end who cares as they look great.

I think Nanashi's point in mentioning this first of all, was just to make people aware that although they are great kits, they should not be regarded as the 'be all & end all' in accuracy.

This is not a critiscm, as afterall they are just the sculptors interpretation of the design, incorporating Hasegawa's desire to give the Valks a more 'real aircraft' feel.

Anyway, let's just hope that with the release of all major Macross Zero fighter variants, that Hasegawa has not given up on Macross kits. I know I would be all over a VF-17 and VF-11 kit if they released them.

Graham

[Noyhauser]

I think Nanashi's point in mentioning this first of all, was just to make people aware that although they are great kits, they should not be regarded as the 'be all & end all' in accuracy.

This is not a critiscm as afterall, they are just the sculptor(s) interpretation of the design, incorporating Hasegawa's desire to give the Valks a more 'real aircraft' feel.

I personally felt it was more of an attack, especially after the Club-M/Tanmen comment. You're right that its an interpretation, but wasn't it mentioned somewhere that Kawamori signed off on the Hasegawa designs? If it is true I doubt that ClubM had the same privledge, I certainly doubt that Tanmen has either. If the biggest gripe people have is the "optional" missile pod not having a reverse missile, thats pretty tame. I can see the hardpoint thing maybe, but I'm pretty sure there are conflicting line art versions out there... so to say that its a shame that hasegawa didn't follow X interpretation over y interpretation is splitting hairs, and is a bit much.

Sure Hasegawa's models have more details than the animation, but thats also because of cost of the animation itself. AS was said in the other thread, up close fighters have panels everywhere, rivets and the like. Animators, and even shoji Kawamori don't have time to draw every single panel line on a fighter. As budgets go up, more and more detail gets put on, but never like what a real vehicle has. I think Macross Zero made it perfectly clear that VFs are fairly normal fighters in their requirements and designs, so that the VF-1 likely has these sort of details on them, but we never seen them before.

Edited January 14, 2005 by Noyhauser

[scand]

Baaaah! Haseagawa. I refuse to by any more of there kits until they make a vf-11.

[Stamen0083]

Baaaah! Haseagawa. I refuse to by any more of there kits until they make a vf-11.

It is precisely this sort of thinking that prevents them from making a VF-11.

I say we all buy as much Hasegawa Macross as we can.

I think the biggest rant was a certain member who picked apart the model for its exact line art specifications.

Indeed. He's not even a modeller.

[Noyhauser]

Indeed. He's not even a modeller.

I think that was my #1 gripe actually. For example I only build 1/72 scale models and for years I had to suffer building the REALLY poor Revell HE-162 kits because they were the only company who built them. I spent ages accurizing them. We ALL have stories like this... like the F-14D issues that dave has pointed out. Having a missile pod that is definately inaccurate, and a hardpoint that "may" be inaccurate to me is so trivial, when you look at the absolute beauty and the overall accuracy of the model. I'd be far more recieving if he actually HAD built one, like HWK and his battroid missile problem.

[hellohikaru]

I think Hasegawa not making a VF-11 is because its simply not the main mecha in any macross series and didn't feature serious among time with pilots like Hikaru, Isamu and Max/Milia.

Its all got to do with the Japan market which prefer top of the line good guy mecha. Look at gundam, how many of the obcsure bad mecha have made it to PG or even MG scale ?

[Graham]

I think Hasegawa not making a VF-11 is because its simply not the main mecha in any macross series and didn't feature serious among time with pilots like Hikaru, Isamu and Max/Milia.

Its all got to do with the Japan market which prefer top of the line good guy mecha. Look at gundam, how many of the obcsure bad mecha have made it to PG or even MG scale ?

Hasegawa could easily relase three versions of the VF-11 to get more use out of the molds, Mac Plus VF-11B, Mac 7 VF-11C and VF-X2 version. I'd probably buy a couple at least.

Graham

[Valk009]

The chances that Hasegawa will release the VF-11 is pretty slim in my opinon. If they really wanted to they would have done so when they released the 19 and 21.

It looks like that they have moved on into producing Mac 0 stuff and other non series/movie related Mac stuff, such as the Minmay Guard and the Low Vis!

To be honest, will Hasegawa stop producing Macross kits after all the releases of the Mac 0 line? There seem to be no indication on what is coming up next!

Andy

[spellbinder99]

I have bought a bunch of the Hasegawa kits to put aside to build at my leisure. The ones I have started are a pleasure to build and look like a Valkyrie to me, but then again, I don't fill up sleepless nights comparing panel lines on drawings to engraved lines on kit parts and then BITCHING when they find a mocromillimeter discrepancy.

I will leave that to what the guys on the "What If" board call JMN's.

Joyless Modelling Nazis....

I allways ask this question.....How much of this detail can YOU pick out when your favourite Valkyrie has its 20 seconds of blurry TV screen time?

Agree with you completely WM, you are one of the best modellers I have had the pleasure to see the work of.

Tony

[bsu legato]

If you want to talk animation accuracy, the old Arii kits are much closer to the "real" thing in many ways.

No, I'll stick with Hasegawa, thank you.

[HWR MKII]

thanks noyhauser

that was my only real gripe about the kit besides fit problems stated in the other thread. other than that i wouldnt mind building a squadron full of battroids. or would that be a company of battroids...... or platoon? oh and missile problem solved without resorting to kit threatening surgery.

Edited January 14, 2005 by HWR MKII

[Penguin]

To be honest, will Hasegawa stop producing Macross kits after all the releases of the Mac 0 line? There seem to be no indication on what is coming up next!

Well, I picked up Hasegawa's catalogue for 2005, and while it did indicate another 3 models in their "Virtual-On" series, the only upcoming Macross release seems to be a VF-1A/J/S fighter mode (i.e. all three heads in one model). It doesn't seem like anything actually "new" is in the pipe.

[Aurel Tristen]

Indeed. He's not even a modeller.

I failed miserably my first attempt many years ago, but I plan to give it another try. I have some kits (including Hasegawa) and I have begun gathering supplies. I hope to come here for help once I do start.

[broadshore]

Well. it could get worst. Testor could be making the Macross Models. :-\