Your Views on the Ending of ZERO

[Agent ONE]

What you may have missed in Macross ZERO.

The purpose of the AFOS was to make sure that the Protoculture didn't create another race like the Zjentohlauedy/Meltohlauedy. The purpose of creating humanity was to have a "restart" of culture, as the protoculture ruined their own.

Think of the AFOS as like a artifact or symbol that ancient cultures leave behind... Some are just to honor someone, but some are also a reminder of "what NOT to do." We write books about Hitler not to revere him, but to alert future generations of the horrible potential that one man can have. The AFOS just went a step furthur... Instead of teaching us a lesson, it administered a test. that test being a test of 2 questions...

1. Has mankind achieved space travel. if yes go to question #2.

2. Does mankind still wage war (keep in mind the definition of waging war, and having emotion was probably different to the Protoculture... As the wars they were accostomed to for thousands of years involved completely emotionless beings)? If yes destroy all.

The second Sarah felt an emotion other than rage, the AFOS thought, "oh, I guess they aren't like my creators were, and they also aren't like the Zjentohlauedy or

Meltohlauedy... I guess I should stop killing everything."

How does this fit in with the rest of Macross?

The Protoculture tested humanity in MZero by leaving the AFOS behind.. This was to ensure that humanity wouldn't make the same mistakes that the Protoculture did, by creating thoughtless emotionless killing machines.

Humanity then tested the Zjentohlauedy and Meltohlauedy in the final battle with Bodolza and Laplamez in DYRL (also in SDFM). Some of both sides turned out NOT to be those mindless thoughtless killing machines so they were spared.

Humanity tested itself in Macross Plus by almost making the same mistakes the Protoculture did. Think about it... Humans were going to created automated AI systems that would kill without thought.... Just like the Zjentohlauedy, just like the Meltohlauedy and just like the Protodevlin.

Just for the record, in care you can't tell, I think MZero is awesome.

[Sweekz]

was watching it again focker asks shin not too die just before they part to save their "women" that means he couldnt have died

I think the meaning of shins valk splashing into the ocean and coming out was his "rebirth" to a birdman or something

Edited January 13, 2005 by Sweekz

[Sage58]

Agent One, huzzah!

[JELEINEN]

1/1 LowViz Lurker what was Alpha Bombay Blood anyways? I didnt get it..... was it the special blood of the Islanders?

the floating rocks had to be Magick

Alpha Bombay is just blood type AB using military radio speak. The point is that it's normal human blood.

As for rocks floating (and all the other stuff), see my comments in my thread on comparing M0 to the works of Arthur C. Clarke.

[ewilen]

No, that would be Alpha Bravo.

Pretty sure that Alpha Bombay is a special, rare blood type in M0.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

And one year later... everyone on the freaking island die after the Zentraedi fleet basically annihilate the world.

Yeah but I get the feeling that the islanders and the priestesses' knew that the world was coming to an end from thier own prophetic warnings anyway. They would have been prepared for it either through the anti-un and un fighting for the alien bird thing, or through some other cataclysm. The prophecy had to come true and there was no way to avoid it so they accepted this and may even have moved to a safe area (maybe in a cave or something?) before the big Zentradi attack. Stopping the birdmech would have only postponed the end but the prophecy still had to come true in some way, so the eventual Zentradi attack fullfilled that. I think only about 70% of the earth was destroyed wasn't it?

I would like to know if Mao is still alive at this point because after getting all her psychic powers you would think she could somehow use this to bring her own people to safety. After not believing all of sara's stories and myths you would think that after episode 5 she would be more open minded about flying bird mechs and references to all the crazy stuff that just happened in front of her eyes. Or maybe the UN kept her as a valuable lab rat for experimentation. And they probably had to silence any leaks to the public in some way by gathering all those who knew what happened and making sure they don't allow the media to snoop around or to follow in hasford's footsteps and make any further discovery about the events and of the islanders who saw all this happen.

Humanity tested itself in Macross Plus by almost making the same mistakes the Protoculture did. Think about it... Humans were going to created automated AI systems that would kill without thought.... Just like the Zjentohlauedy, just like the Meltohlauedy and just like the Protodevlin.

You'll note another similarity: All the weapons themselves whether they be protodevlin, zentradi, AI with bioneural chips, Birdmechs which are "alive"...all had a mind of thier own. Once they got out of control many innocents were in danger from the threat of these weapons. It's not so much the weapons themselves that are evil (although that's what the black stuff you see around them in macross zero makes them out to be) but the danger of those weapons going out of control and humans wiping themselves out with them by not having proper controls or plans to ensure that if something goes wrong they can protect civilians from the danger.

The new UNG (after SW I) is more sensible but even in macross 7 you have some who wish they could capture the weapons and use them for themselves as thier own bioweapons. (take the giant monster in macross 7 with that massive cannon, that would make one awesome weapon if you could tame it ) There is always the temptation to take the weapons and misuse them but nobody is prepared for the possbility those weapons will backfire and the enemy uses them against you. I think the whole reason for the PC 'Evil' series in the first place was to ensure the zentradi don't suddenly decide: "because we are stronger than the pc, we can one day attack them!" And when you consider some of the zentradi like Kamjin are just plain crazy you can understand this. But nobody could prepare for the fact these super weapons (the evil series) themselves would do just what the pc feared would happen with the zentradi. (ie weapons turning againt them, or just being used agaist them as a result of a split in beliefs by one side of the government)

Instead of destroying the weapons so no one can have them, there is always this danger the military (like gollum who can't throw away the one ring ) no matter which one or what form it takes, will just decided it has to have the weapon hoping nothing bad will happen. But usually that thing falls into the wrong hands and unless there is a defence against it, large chunks of the population die. This is part of the purpose of the prophecies and warnings that let small groups of people working independantly (like a few PC who secretly had to seed earth to start again because they knew their race was going to die someday) prepare for that day before it comes. The attitude taken is: There is no "it might go wrong". It's inevitable that something WILL go wrong and the stories and myths that are handed down, no matter how strange sounding to primitive cultures, have some relevance to future generations.

Edited January 13, 2005 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[Zentrandude]

No, that would be Alpha Bravo.

Pretty sure that Alpha Bombay is a special, rare blood type in M0.

not really. I hear people use other words longs its starts with the desired letter.

[ewilen]

That may be, but would the doctors and researchers, who are nonmilitary, use mil-speak to talk about AB blood? And why would they always use the same nonstandard code for "AB"? For that matter, why would their computer say "Alpha Bombay" on its screen instead of "AB".

Anyway, my impression is that "Alpha Bombay" isn't AB blood. A person with AB blood can accept transfusions from anyone, but can only donate blood to someone who also has AB blood. AB is somewhat rare, but not extraordinarily so (about 4% of the population).

As soon as the scientists realize that the AFOS has blood of type "Alpha Bombay", they immediately note that it has the same type as the shrine maidens. And if Mao's blood type was AB, she could have gotten a transfusion from anyone (or in any case, there should have been a few dozen AB donors on the Asuka, not to mention in the fleet).

Overall, I think the story's intent is that "Alpha Bombay" is a special blood type.

[Sweekz]

And one year later... everyone on the freaking island die after the Zentraedi fleet basically annihilate the world.

Im sure they only hit the "BIG" Continents and "BIG" Islands

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

Yeah I remember seeing mao accepting the blood from the mech. I bet that had something to do with the mech only responding to certain people's touch. For example when Mao touched it something happened. When the head and body of the mech are together it probably scans the dna of the person who tries to use it or something and determines if they are the 'chosen one' to be able pilot it. Like thier own body is the unique key to the machine working and certain family bloodlines are ordered to use them when the time comes. It certainly explains why in the legend, the bird human deliberately cut its own head off when ordered to destroy the world by Procacha.

I think the body itself might be a machine but the head might be living organic part. But blood is seen seeping out of the body I think. Cutting this head off makes it impossible to use the machinery in its body. Just a guess. The scientists had the body which was useless by itself. Mao's treausure was the head, which was 'alive' without its body. Very strange. I think the head unit reads the emotions of the pilot and becomes a kadun if the person/pilot becomes angry, but becomes nice if the person is in a good mood which is what the glowing colour of the head is all about.

When mao was in the water kissing shin, it wirelessly responded to her emotion and the head started glowing. So I'm thinking that the controls are not mechanical but only through use of the mind and intent of the person. When the pilot is angry you can imagine weapons being triggered into action.

Also in the legend it makes mention that Rooy Kanu will meet up again with his wife Rooy Waka (the 'adam and eve' first human types that gave birth to the new humans) in heaven when the 'stars begin to crumble' or something like that. (ie I guess that means space war in heaven) The bird mech itself could be considered the 'male' (its voice sounded male) and when it defolded, it met up with its wife somewhere out there 'across the ocean' (think of space as the last uncharted 'water') as the legend tells.

So I'm thinking there must be a 'female' bird mech living somewhere else in the galaxy and this male birdmech finally meets its wife at the end when sara and the birdmech with the deep male voice finally fold away from earth in ep5, completing the legend.

The 'turtle shell' that was dropped could be an asteroid that was sent to earth (when Rooy Kanu was complaing there was no where to walk upon; only water) to create the lands that these people would live on and inhabit and also explain the strange floating (alien?) Magi-rocks. Those floating rocks and maybe the islands themselves may hold some significance to my theory that an asteroid was sent to earth after this Rooy Kanu guy complained of nowhere to settle. The rocks then brought with them diseases from space and this combined with the blood of the bird mech's head, helped to spawn organisms that could both fly and swim, (the flying fish) as well as evolve us normal humans to walk away from the water into land dwelling creatures. The 'star on the ground' then would be all those organisms from space that ended up here as the unique insects and life native to only those islands. The turtle shell might have been an asteroidal giant rock that split apart onto earth.

Edited January 14, 2005 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[JELEINEN]

No, that would be Alpha Bravo.

Pretty sure that Alpha Bombay is a special, rare blood type in M0.

Bombay is an alternate for "B."

Your notes on transfusions are interesting, because this raises the question of exactly what type of blood the shrine maidens had that they can't get a transfusion from anywhere else. I assumed the importance of the blood sample was genetic, but genetics shouldn't affect whether a blood transfusion can be done, outside of determining blood type. So either Mao's and Sarah's blood is outside of the human norm, or someone didn't do their biology homework. Saddly, I think the latter is a good possibilty.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

Well the blood type of that mech is the same as humans just that it is rare, isn't it? One of the scientists even says:"It's the same as humans?" as if shocked that its seeping human blood.

It wouldn't surprise me if the PC look just like the zentradi who also happen to look just like us. I mean the zentradi even wondered if we were the protoculture. Since they are gone with the dino's and have made themselves extinct we'll probably never know. (But DYRL shows misa in a PC house with dishes and a sink and a table and chairs so I wouldn't expect much difference)

Edited January 14, 2005 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[Myersjessee]

I sure hate it when directors make one big trip-out sequence of an ending that makes no sense and label it as "deep." *cough* Eva *cough*

They could have at least done us the favor and given us some closure or at least an explanation...

exactly my feelings...reminded me of Eva...to much art...not enough science and story.

[Stampeed Valkyrie]

Ok finally finished watching this OVA, first thought that comes to mind....WTF!?!? 2nd thought that comes to mind, In parts 4 and 5 this series started going off on a tree hugging tangent like Arjuna, are all future anime's from Kawamori gonna have some sort of nature kick in them? I am not even gonna try to think of a logical conclusion for this OVA, because there is none, like I said earlier WTF? Parts 1,2,3 were good, not great but good. Part 4 lame, Part 5.....did I mention WTF???

My 2 cents.

Rob

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

My current theory is that the bird mech is a bird human, but also that Shin = the literal bird human for that current time period's generation who would fullfill the task of saving the human race like the legendary bird human who cut its own head off. The Kadun of fear left him when his plane was going to crash and in its place he let go of the fear by singing which enabled him to fly like peter pan. Shin lost his faith in others and only relied upon himself before that, hating the 2 seater planes because it meant he had to trust another person rather than just relying on himself. The images of his slain parents made him paranoid to lose control which makes him so serious all the time. Sara on the other hand clings to her superstitions about kadun and gives him some faith to start believing in forces other yourself. They are a perfect match for each other. Shin and Sara become a sort of messianic figures similar to hikaru and minmay but this time on a more literal level.

Whereas Hikaru was the 'little white dragon' defending the archtypal princess (minmay) who minmay was singing about in her songs, from the evil mythical giants in the movie (as the literal zentradi)....Shin was the Messiah (bird human guy) that Sara was singing about with her song about the end of the world that would come from an angry god. The love for each other makes them interdependant: Hikaru is the knight defending the culture, Minmay is the princess that symbolises the hope for the soliders fighting on. Without one, you cannot have the other. Even the legend of the bird human whose wife is seperated from him until the end of time, is just a love story imo. It's trying to merge a microcosmic idea with a macrocosmic one. the characters do something on a small insiginicant scale that becomes signficant on a larger legendary scale.

But like I said before, maybe they ran out of time and had to squeeze thier explanation in suddenly which resulted in a very sharp and vague (open to interpretation) ending. If they had 1 more episode I would have really really liked to see a decisive battle between Roy and his instructor, but as it is they probably thought: "lets make the birdmech kill two birds with 1 stone (no pun intended) and let the afos kill the 2 main skilled bad guys as if they were cannon fodders", and this is what made me more unsatisfied than anything else when the anti-UN were defeated FOR the UN by the bird, instead of them battling with a final climactic dogfight to determine who was better.

The meat of a fan's love for the series is obviously seeing the action and battles done in a stylish way. So long as they don't skimp on this I'm happy. If a movie version is made I hope they explain it in more detail for *ahem* 'closure'. Even before seeing ep5 I was expecting the strangest stuff was going to happen because of the use of this alien technology. Magick was not going to be a problem for me and floating stuff to fly and 'ride them' isn't the main turnoff. Its more this aittude of 'let's leave the detail to the last minute' which makes it feel as if footage has been cut out because they had to cram it all in order to wrap it up quickly that gets to me more. As an example from mac+: I felt unsatisfied with the macross plus ova ending compared to the movie one because to me it was not resolved properly whether myung starting believing in song and getting her singing career back, or if Dyson actually cared about her as much as his flying. But in the movie it is wrapped up more neatly and you felt more of an emotional connection to the 3 characters: Princess is protected, princess continues singing after having faith in her own music to breaking the hypnosis spell, Knight protects princess from evil sorceror/sorceress and sacrifices his life, and Hero gets girl after almost falling to his death, with reknewed hope in the magic power of the princess' music on others. A much stronger resolution than the ova which just ends, no explanation about music waking up dyson up or whether he bothered talking to myung at all.

Edited January 14, 2005 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[Final Vegeta]

Your notes on transfusions are interesting, because this raises the question of exactly what type of blood the shrine maidens had that they can't get a transfusion from anywhere else.  I assumed the importance of the blood sample was genetic, but genetics shouldn't affect whether a blood transfusion can be done, outside of determining blood type.  So either Mao's and Sarah's blood is outside of the human norm, or someone didn't do their biology homework.  Saddly, I think the latter is a good possibilty.

Err... yes, it's a typical sci-fi blunder.

FV

[Mule]

Ok finally finished watching this OVA, first thought that comes to mind....WTF!?!? 2nd thought that comes to mind, In parts 4 and 5 this series started going off on a tree hugging tangent like Arjuna, are all future anime's from Kawamori gonna have some sort of nature kick in them? I am not even gonna try to think of a logical conclusion for this OVA, because there is none, like I said earlier WTF? Parts 1,2,3 were good, not great but good. Part 4 lame, Part 5.....did I mention WTF???

Agreed. More mechs and less magic. I was really disappointed that DD and Nora were killed by the PC mech and not Shin or Roy.

[JELEINEN]

Agreed. More mechs and less magic. I was really disappointed that DD and Nora were killed by the PC mech and not Shin or Roy.

While I disagree with your conclusions on 'magic' (it sounds like you didn't understand the show), I do agree that both of the main characters being unable to defeat the main antagonists was weak from a story telling point of view.

[Sweekz]

Agreed.  More mechs and less magic.  I was really disappointed that DD and Nora were killed by the PC mech and not Shin or Roy.

While I disagree with your conclusions on 'magic' (it sounds like you didn't understand the show), I do agree that both of the main characters being unable to defeat the main antagonists was weak from a story telling point of view.

Heres a one to think on who would have won?

Ivanov? and Nora? or Fokker? and Shin?

[ewilen]

No, that would be Alpha Bravo.

Pretty sure that Alpha Bombay is a special, rare blood type in M0.

Bombay is an alternate for "B."

After doing a little more research, I think you're right, but it seems the systems that use "Bombay" for "B" don't use "Alpha" for "A". They use "Africa" or "Australia"...

I'll send a note to Egan Loo and see if he can come up with an answer.

[Zentrandude]

speaking of blood wonder why they didn't use the rh factor in blood.

my blood type is ab but its ab+ think they would use like "-" if they say its human blood unless fansub just left it out.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

Heres a one to think on who would have won?

Ivanov? and Nora? or Fokker? and Shin?

^

this is why I want a alternate movie version to show who wins.

I don't necessarily think the more skilled pilot would win, maybe the better pilot lets his/her guard down (ala the red baron ) and is really cocky and unfocused that day and makes a mistake that lets the less-skilled and experienced one take advantage of it. I think the whole build up from the previous dogfights in previous episodes into the last episode was kind of a let-down. They built up this rivalry thing then we never got to see ultimately if one could beat the other. Like a street fight that ends in a tie with both sides unsatisfied.

It makes roy and shin look weak imo. But if Shin is young and inexperienced, and Roy learnt everything from this Ivanov guy, it would be more realistic this way by having them at a constant disadvatage because they are in less well designed variable fighters.

speaking of blood wonder why they didn't use the rh factor in blood.

my blood type is ab but its ab+ think they would use like "-" if they say its human blood unless fansub just left it out.

About this blood thing. Keep in mind the anti un were attacking the un at the time so to me it would seem logical to just use the blood from the alien bird on mao. Especially considering it was just convenient and they had mao and the bird body right there.

Edited January 15, 2005 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[Sweekz]

Damn dude for me being a "Troll" I really start some good topics

Damn I cant understand why I stopped watching anime to start back at Macross is the way to go

[Keith]

It wasn't important to find out who would have one in a dogfight, as that wasn't the main focus of the story to begin with.

[striderhiryu]

saw the entire series and i can say it was good, still i felt a little down with the conclussion of the story and the last dogfight.

maybe they decided to have DD and nora killed by the AFOS since they knew that nora and DD would have won the fight, however in the last fight nora actually let her guard down when shin surprised her with a transformation and a serie of attacks so perhaps nora could be shot down but not ivanov who actually was the best pilot in the series. in episode 4 he was playing with his pray, always in control of the fight and this was actually the only time i saw focker in real trouble, if it weren't for the reinforces focker would not have made it out alive, even if his fighter was shot down and he bailed i bet DD would shoot him when he was falling with the parachute, because DD is way too sadistic.

[eugimon]

Actually, I don't think DD was sadistic at all...

when nora had the mechanic by the family jewels, it was DD who pulled her off him and even lectured her a bit.

And even when DD and Roy were dogfighting, DD's attitude seemed more of a teacher who was pleased/curious of how his student progressed. Plus, he seemed genuinely fond of Nora.

Nora on the other hand thought and talked about killing much all the time, took delight in beating up shin and seemed to really enjoy taking people out.

I have to say, the first time I watched the series, I wasn't too impressed.. I liked the dogfights, which I thought were verry well done... but now that I've watched through a few more times... I like the story as well.

[striderhiryu]

well, maybe he could had spared focker's life if he were to shoot him down, but remember how he took out that pilot in episode 2 with cold blood aquracy, right in the torso, and the carrier scene, both were gory.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

in episode 4 he was playing with his pray, always in control of the fight and this was actually the only time i saw focker in real trouble, if it weren't for the reinforces focker would not have made it out alive, even if his fighter was shot down and he bailed i bet DD would shoot him when he was falling with the parachute, because DD is way too sadistic.

But dont forget the anti un have had more time with variable fighters. So the question is whether it would have been a fair fight? What I would like to have seen is roy going one on one in battroid mode against Ivanov similar to the battroid street fight in macross plus where you see dyson and guld trying to rip each other's limbs off or the episode in sdf macross when britai rips the chest plate off hikaru's vf. I always was fond of seeing battroids get wrecked and damaged. When there is no gunpod ammo left, a lack of fuel, and all your missiles are used up, it's up to both of them to try thier hand at mech to mech close combat for a showdown. (no more game playing or running away bs)

While all that is happening Nora is enraged and tries to kill Roy and because he is half damaged from the fight with Ivanov, he ejects. Shin fights her in one last decisive battle, while much later on, the monster does its usual thing of shooting the birdmech which is indiscriminately killing everything. There you go: an easy alternate change of events that allows us to see who is decisively better without just killing off the aces so suddenly. I find that when characters die so suddenly (roy's death from loss of blood in sdf:macross) it just leaves a negative taste in your mouth. You want them to go in a dramatic fashion (like roy's death in DYRL).

It's ok with Kakizaki but Ivanov and Nora are the main bad guys.

Edited January 15, 2005 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[striderhiryu]

in episode 4 he was playing with his pray, always in control of the fight and this was actually the only time i saw focker in real trouble, if it weren't for the reinforces focker would not have made it out alive, even if his fighter was shot down and he bailed i bet DD would shoot him when he was falling with the parachute, because DD is way too sadistic.

But dont forget the anti un have had more time with variable fighters. So the question is whether it would have been a fair fight? What I would like to have seen is roy going one on one in battroid mode against Ivanov similar to the battroid street fight in macross plus where you see dyson and guld trying to rip each other's limbs off or the episode in sdf macross when britai rips the chest plate off hikaru's vf. I always was fond of seeing battroids get wrecked and damaged. When there are no gunpod ammo, a lack of fuel, and all your missiles are used up, it up to both of them to try thier hand at mech to mech close combat.

While all that is happening Nora is enraged and tries to kill Roy and because he is half damaged from the fight with Ivanov, he ejects. Shin fights her in one last decisive battle, while much later on, the monster does its usual thing of shooting the birdmech which is indiscriminately killing everything. There you go: an easy alternate change of events that allows us to see who is decisively better without just killing off the aces so suddenly. I find that when characters die so suddenly (roy's death from loss of blood in sdf:macross) it just leaves a negative taste in your mouth. You want them to go in a dramatic fashion (like in roy's death in DYRL).

i agree with you, hopefully if big west decides to make a movie version of mac 0 they should allow nora and DD to go out with glory and not like cannon fodders. hell, if ivanov was to go against the AFOS they should make him look as heroic as guld in mac + movie, even make himm damage a bit the AFOS so his death doesn't look so pathetic.

[eugimon]

in episode 4 he was playing with his pray, always in control of the fight and this was actually the only time i saw focker in real trouble, if it weren't for the reinforces focker would not have made it out alive, even if his fighter was shot down and he bailed i bet DD would shoot him when he was falling with the parachute, because DD is way too sadistic.

But dont forget the anti un have had more time with variable fighters. So the question is whether it would have been a fair fight? What I would like to have seen is roy going one on one in battroid mode against Ivanov similar to the battroid street fight in macross plus where you see dyson and guld trying to rip each other's limbs off or the episode in sdf macross when britai rips the chest plate off hikaru's vf. I always was fond of seeing battroids get wrecked and damaged. When there is no gunpod ammo left, a lack of fuel, and all your missiles are used up, it's up to both of them to try thier hand at mech to mech close combat for a showdown. (no more game playing or running away bs)

While all that is happening Nora is enraged and tries to kill Roy and because he is half damaged from the fight with Ivanov, he ejects. Shin fights her in one last decisive battle, while much later on, the monster does its usual thing of shooting the birdmech which is indiscriminately killing everything. There you go: an easy alternate change of events that allows us to see who is decisively better without just killing off the aces so suddenly. I find that when characters die so suddenly (roy's death from loss of blood in sdf:macross) it just leaves a negative taste in your mouth. You want them to go in a dramatic fashion (like roy's death in DYRL).

It's ok with Kakizaki but Ivanov and Nora are the main bad guys.

Hmm.. I really like the way Roy's death was handled in SDF Macross... For me, MAcross was never about glorifing war... so showing the random senselessness of it all seemed perfectly fitting.

As for Nora... and DD... well... for me, it felt like the ending to Zero was rushed. I think they really could have benefited from another epsidoe to flesh things out and bring things to a more complete conclusion.

DD's death I thought was fitting... here was a hardened vet finally realizing the insanity of war and just snapping.. wanting to put an end to it, letting his ego and blood lust get the better of him. Which I thought played nicely against how Shin and Roy chose to handle the same situation.

[Sage58]

I completely agree. For me, the whole strength of Roy's death was that it was unexpected. Sure, there could have been a big, heroic, banzai fight to the death where Roy did a hundred Zentradi before becoming overcome. I admit, such a fight would have been brutal and brilliant, and I'd love to see it, but looking at "Macross" as a whole, I'm glad that didn't happen. Subdued, the reaction is a lot more quiet and a lot more deep.

[dna]

saw the entire series and i can say it was good, still i felt a little down with the conclussion of the story and the last dogfight.

maybe they decided to have DD and nora killed by the AFOS since they knew that nora and DD would have won the fight, however in the last fight nora actually let her guard down when shin surprised her with a transformation and a serie of attacks so perhaps nora could be shot down but not ivanov who actually was the best pilot in the series. in episode 4 he was playing with his pray, always in control of the fight and this was actually the only time i saw focker in real trouble, if it weren't for the reinforces focker would not have made it out alive, even if his fighter was shot down and he bailed i bet DD would shoot him when he was falling with the parachute, because DD is way too sadistic.

It always seemed to me that Shin was the better pilot (over Nora), but his unfamiliarity with the VF cramped his style. Even looking at his first encounter with Nora in the 1st ep, I believe that he would have been able to take her if she couldn't have pulled a transformation on him.

[eugimon]

saw the entire series and i can say it was good, still i felt a little down with the conclussion of the story and the last dogfight.

maybe they decided to have DD and nora killed by the AFOS since they knew that nora and DD would have won the fight, however in the last fight nora actually let her guard down when shin surprised her with a transformation and a serie of attacks so perhaps nora could be shot down but not ivanov who actually was the best pilot in the series. in episode 4 he was playing with his pray, always in control of the fight and this was actually the only time i saw focker in real trouble, if it weren't for the reinforces focker would not have made it out alive, even if his fighter was shot down and he bailed i bet DD would shoot him when he was falling with the parachute, because DD is way too sadistic.

It always seemed to me that Shin was the better pilot (over Nora), but his unfamiliarity with the VF cramped his style. Even looking at his first encounter with Nora in the 1st ep, I believe that he would have been able to take her if she couldn't have pulled a transformation on him.

I agree, if Shin's objective was to take out nora instead of saving sara during the last fight, shin would have taken her out, I think. he pretty much got her when he dunked her into the water, why he didn't take her out then, I don't know.

But then, I feel like shin flew nora into the path of the birdhuman on purpose rather than just as a fluke.. his situational awareness was pretty high.

On the other hand..I thought the foreshadowing of of Roy's death was a nice touch... DD lecturing him to pay attention to the battle and not get caught chatting... and then getting hit in the same manner as the shots that eventually claim his life.

[Impreszive]

I give the ending a "meh"

It fell into the typical anime realted cliche of a non sensical ending. I had hoped that the final ep could redeem the show, but alas, I was wrong...again.

[Firefox]

Don't actually like the ending. The presentation is too fairy tale where it could be more 'reaslistic'. IMO the ending has demean the mechanical designs.