Your Views on the Ending of ZERO

[Sweekz]

kinda lost on the ending? anyone got some speculation?

[NoSuchFile]

If you're talking about shin's VF-0A getting feathery wings and then "magically" folding, well i for one think that since Sarah is controling AFOS, she made it bring a little souvenir of earth with them, who knows where they ended up thought

well, that's what i think

Edited January 12, 2005 by NoSuchFile

[Sweekz]

If you're talking about shin's VF-0A getting feathery wings and then "magically" folding, well i for one think that since Sarah is controling AFOS, she made it bring a little souvenir of earth with them, who knows where they ended up thought 

well, that's what i think 

didnt look like she died from the 4 fukkin nukes flying at AFOS either....

If that baby survived that im sure she did too i guess

as for shin What the hell???? where he go?

he was suppose to "protect the Mayans" where the hell did he end up????

Edited January 12, 2005 by Sweekz

[Zentrandude]

planet zora guarding the galatic whales .

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

The protoculture thought the human race might be able to protect the culture, but it didn't so they moved. Shin and Sara would then act as the first male and first female (adam and eve, Rooy Kanu? and Roy Waka?) to try again some place else. (while mao would take on the task of protecting the land - there are probably similar ruins seen on earth all over the universe, just my guess. Just like on mars )

Mao pretty much said shin was more of a bird human so his fate was to be the next birdman of legend who saves the human race from an angry god (Procacha?) using his love.

Technology was once again abused and used for destruction and war instead of good. It ballooned to a point that the UN did not have control of the situation (letting the OT transformation data fall into anti un hands for example and allowing them a head start) so it may have been too dangerous to let the afos fall into the hands of either side. (afos then decided it needed to kill everything)Also it was mentioned that all the good pilots were killed in the war and it seemed to me that Roy wasn't as good as his instructor to a point he could decisively kill him. Lucky the afos killed the two best pilots in the world rather than shin and roy.

Keep in mind that in the original series the whole 'sharing of the military power' by all the super powers probably came more out of fear of attack from aliens rather than out of mutual trust and love for one another. (but that's just my opinion based on the attitude of the UNG in SDF:macross towards making peace with the zentradi. Global's and Exedol's outlook on humans and zentradi are that we are all fated to kill each other whether on a macrocosmic level (as genetically engineered giants used as bioweapons) or microcosmic level. (global civil war?) Whether in ancient times with low technology or current times with weapons of mass destruction that can wipe out whole planets.

The military would have to at least "protect" what precious culture we had developed to preserve our history in case we wipe ourselves out to extinction like the pc. The sdf1 was definately symbolic of some ark of civilisation after the rain of death. If that was destroyed there would be no history of the human race left so it was thought that exploration and spreading ourselves was the best way to survive in case things got out of control like in Macross Zero where either side kills each other and is forced to take peaceful cultures and thier secrets along with it.

You'll note that most people on the island got bored of the simple life and wanted to move to the cities, never coming back to the island which was a sad indication of the destruction and loss of that people's own culture. Even Mao was tempted to know everything there was to know about trains, music of other people in cities, and lots of other stuff that might seem exciting to her young mind, but she was too naive to notice the planes, tanks, mechs, submarines etc that threatened her people all around her. The world would be safe only IF the technology had just the good (creative) things but not the (destructive) bad stuff.

So in conclusion that's why the Aphos needed to ask the question about the warring humans and whether they had stopped fighting. No point giving us access to better technology (used to make more weapons) unless we learnt not to be a danger to ourselves. My speculation is that aphos birdmen are hidden everywhere and only those ones that succeed the test get a chance to have the newtype powers that Sara possesses. (you know like levitating in a ball, floating rocks when you feel like it, making plants grow just by singing to them etc I doubt just anyone can do this unless thier alien dna enables it, or the human is genetically altered to unlock that power as a way to artificially evolve us.)

Edited January 12, 2005 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[Radd]

Watch the end to Zero again. After the nukes hit AFOS, you get a clear view of the cockpit area were Sarah was. Based on what I saw, I don't think Sarah survived. I'm inclined to believe that Shin didn't survive either, remember that death is just another beginning.

[Duke Togo]

Tasted like chicken!

[Keith]

DYNAMITE!

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

Nah shin is alive. You see his face (alive) when his valk is about to fall gracefully into the ocean surface before it dunks down. I just watched it.

As for Sara, well if you could make out her dead body then I would say for sure but it isn't clear enough to say if she is dead or not.

Here's an image of the force field moments before the afos is hit:

I'm going to assume she is alive and that the force field was strong enough to protect her but leave part of the afos battle damaged and all the missiles did was leave a burn mark.

Image of the afos right after the explosion clears, clearly undamaged (well maybe slightly ):

If she was in the bubble she would have easily survived that.

EDIT:

closer image of the head:

Looks ok to me! (ok so the petal looks chopped up but the head is intact)

EDIT2: (last one, I promise! )

image of the face without damage just after the invid flower of destruction blooms. (she sits in the green bit) Comparing them, I don't see that much difference apart from it looking less shiny. I would expect maybe the whole thing blown off if the purple bubble barrier wasn't there. Although on second thoughts it does sound better that she actually sacrificed her life on purpose so that the machine couldn't be used anymore. It did have the intention of destroying the world and all. And folding the radiation would have stopped the contamination.

But...earlier before her death she asked shin to take care of the island which he isn't able to do now that he gets folded off away from the earth. So there's all sorts of confusion here. Maybe the song genetically modified his body and she sang the creation song to heal him or something? Her ghost may indicate physical death and was used to give shin hope ..still.. a damaged afos doesn't necessarily mean she died. It may be one of her many powers and she is still alive somewhere. And it still doesn't answer the question as to what the hell happened to shin? (I'll just assumed this episode was rushed and they changed the script?)

Edited January 12, 2005 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[Raptor]

I sure hate it when directors make one big trip-out sequence of an ending that makes no sense and label it as "deep." *cough* Eva *cough*

They could have at least done us the favor and given us some closure or at least an explanation...

[Final Vegeta]

They could have at least done us the favor and given us some closure or at least an explanation...

I think explanation will be given in the Compendium. Usually Kawamori doesn't give all details in his anime.

FV

[Sweekz]

I also thought it was one of those "EVA like" endings

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

If they can explain how the rocks floated that would be good.

Were they:

-antigrav?

-magick? (sara can heal, and levitate and create a ball of energy. Like gundam and starwars she is a jedi knight/newtype person with special ability due to her genes or blood or something. Mind Power/Telekinesis I can accept because of akira and dragonball, so long as it's done in a tasteful way. In sdf:macross the zentradi's reactions to the movie may hint at the existence of legendary beings with supernatural power - with macross 7 alredy opening the gate to the fact of these beings having some bearing in thier reality)

-the painted rocks themselves were just special and possibly alive with some unknown force bound into them. (only these rocks float, nothing else. The land is sacred and all sorts of strange phenomena happen there.)

Given that mao's alpha bombay blood in her veins connects her to the afos, and that her people called on a spirit to inhabit her body, I'm willing to accept magick as an explanation and that it's a case of the average person not believing what the myths say about flying birdmen, ancient astronauts etc until it happens in front of thier eyes. Even in sdf:macross nobody believed misa's report of the zentradi aliens without the visual recordings. (her camera was destroyed) She could have made it all up for all they knew and it didn't look like they gave her the benefit of the doubt. And in the first ep of mac zero, people were amazed such a highly advanced ancient relic could be dated so far back in time.

If the Zentradi could be genetically altered to become enormous in size (you see britai walking in space without a suit in SDF:macross, a sure sign that the next step were beings who getting close to godlike powers) then I can totally accept that the PC experimented on themselves to 'awaken' a dormant power that was inside them (ie similar to the mind experiments the government scientists were illegally doing on those kids in akira) and that special bloodlines were sent by the pc to various planets on secret missions. Ie breed and live on that planet for generations, keeping your secrets safe from the rest of the planet's inhabitants and living in seclusion and isolation from the natives of that planet as thier technology gradually advances over time.

Genetically altering the brain for increased intelligence (as opposed to strength) and tapping into advanced mind powers would be the ultimate way they could advance thier civilisation imo It would mean they could ensure they were the most highly evolved race in the universe. If they genetically altered humans, then it makes sense they could genetically alter themselves and completely throw away this need to build machines out of materials as opposed to just making organic, half-alive machines with self sufficiency (using energy from nature that is free) that eliminate the need for manual maintenance or "repair". (using materials that are limited) The afos after all didn't even look like a machine, it was sort of alive and had an intellgence that read emotions and came to it's own logical conclusions about what had to be done. (I disagree with those who say it was a preprogrammed computer merely waiting and prompting for voice activated commands by the pilot. To me the actual afos was 'thinking' on-the-fly the way a real person would. Keep in mind this thing had actual blood dripping out of its body and the head was reacting to shin and mao as they were kissing. The thing was not a computer imo. It even narrates and talks about the human race as it transforms into a flower with wings. That would be unnecessary if it were just a machine only controllabel by the pilot as opposed to having some freedom and independance by itself.)

Edited January 12, 2005 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[Sweekz]

If they can explain how the rocks floated that would be good.

Were they:

-antigrav?

-magick? (sara can heal, and levitate and create a ball of energy. Like gundam and starwars she is a jedi knight/newtype person with special ability due to her genes or blood or something. Mind Power/Telekinesis I can accept because of akira and dragonball, so long as it's done in a tasteful way. In sdf:macross the zentradi's reactions to the movie may hint at the existence of legendary beings with supernatural power - with macross 7 alredy opening the gate to the fact of these beings having some bearing in thier reality)

-the rocks were just special and possibly alive with some unknown force bound into them. (only these rocks float, nothing else. The land is sacred and all sorts of strange phenomenon happen there.)

Given that mao's alpha bombay blood in her veins connects her to the afos, and that her people called on a spirit to inhabit her body, I'm willing to accept magick as an explanation and that it's a case of the average person not believing what the myths say about flying birdmen, ancient astronauts etc until it happens in front of thier eyes. Even in sdf:macross nobody believed misa's report of the zentradi aliens without the visual recordings. (her camera was destroyed) She could have made it all up for all they knew and it didn't look like they gave her the benefit of the doubt.

1/1 LowViz Lurker what was Alpha Bombay Blood anyways? I didnt get it..... was it the special blood of the Islanders?

the floating rocks had to be Magick

Edited January 12, 2005 by Sweekz

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

I wish somebody else could answer it. But from what I remember it was of the priestesses of the island but not all the islanders which is why I think it was a grave sin for Sara to let Hasford take her blood sample for study.

She gave into temptation as a little kid by accepting a bribe, and her dad was kinda scolding her for not passing this test that her father gave her which is why she has had to live with the guilt her whole adult life and is so paranoid about rules and regulations. Kind of like misa hayase I guess shin wanted to calm her down in the scene where he comforts her about him doing things he regrets, and that you can laugh at your mistakes. Nobody's perfect.

The scientists (both un and antiun) probably wanted to prove that the legend about the ancient bird thingy visiting earth was literally a real event and maybe match this rare blood with samples they already have that links these people to the aliens. If they could find the treasure before the UNG maybe this would turn the tide of the war (given that the anti-un were losing?) but as usual it all backfired as the afos had a mind of its own deciding the human race was too dangerous and angry and fearful. Also I think, because the PC maybe had a hand in genetically altering us, (artificially 'evolving' us with thier virus and making us mutate like the little fish with wings?) they got it in thier heads that they could just kill us (using the death beams of the afos to exterminate the experiment) and clean up the mess they themselves helped start if it all got out of control. (that's just my opinion though)

Edited January 12, 2005 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[Knight26]

I didn't dislike, nor did I love the ending, one thing I wished had been there was a Zentran Scout picking up the signal of the AFOS folding and reporting back to Breetai's fleet. Remember when the Zentran first show up in SDF Macross Exodore comments that they picked up a signal from earth and that is what they tracked in.

[Sage58]

As I was watching the last episode of Zero, I was horrified, amazed, and impressed that Sara died. It was dark. Then, however, Shin's plane sprouts wings and was carried off into the galaxy. It's pretty clear both Shin and Sara are alive and living all by themselves somewhere in the stars. I've got no issues with the ending.

The only part of the last episode I didn't care for was when Mao appeared in Shin's cockpit.

[Hikuro]

image of the face without damage just after the invid flower of destruction blooms.

uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuh... wait....your kidding on that part right...?

Personally I thought 5 was a joke....for 1 shin was injured as he was running away and got shot in the shoulder. Then there was his crash landing, weight plus the pull of gravity on uneven terms can be VERY dangerous, I've heard of guys breaking as much from their feet to their hips either breaking them or dislocating them after hard landings...you can't so much as probably get away from something like what Shin faced without limpin.

Than at the end where his plane smashed into the ocean....think of yourself being in something thats a few tons, and just do a massive belly flop.....your probably dead on that one, not too mention the pressure would build in the canopy and pop filling with water....I doubt that thing was air tight after such abuse was given....

But also take into consideration that its not normal armor the VF's have....so his chances of survival were decent, but not perfect....I say Shin was killed once he impacted "belly flopped" into the sea. And more than likely Sara was killed by the nukes, I think she was more than aware she wasn't going to survive such an assault....I mean you just got 4 nukes sent at you....

[Prime]

As for Sara, well if you could make out her dead body then I would say for sure but it isn't clear enough to say if she is dead or not.

Isn't the first rule of scifi that they aren't dead until you see the body?

one thing I wished had been there was a Zentran Scout picking up the signal of the AFOS folding and reporting back to Breetai's fleet. Remember when the Zentran first show up in SDF Macross Exodore comments that they picked up a signal from earth and that is what they tracked in.

I think that was the Macross they tracked in when it originally crashed...

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

Hikuro:

But if you compare the image without damage, to the image after damage. They look the same. The only visible damage was the petals.

Why didn't they just draw/model the face crushed, smashed, melted away, having fresh smoke and steam rising out of the damaged bit just like any other damaged mech would have?

Why does the face look like it hasn't been affected at all from the original shape of when it first appears? No indication it was harmed at all. The force field could have absorbed it for all we know. If it wasn't so vague and they had a close up, we'd know.

I'm still open to the belief that she is in fact dead, but unless it is 100% conclusive I'm going to assume she merely left earth with the machine to prevent what it was going to do to the humans with its power and also because she had no choice becaue of the contamination if she stayed and did not fold that red stuff out of there. (this was her way of protecting her culture)

Like you said it just got whacked with 4 nukes, why wasn't it COMPLETELY destroyed/obliterated then and instead only partially damaged? Obviously the force field clearly had some affect to modify the damage done so we are left unsure about the fate of the pilot unless they show massive damage that is so obvious to the audience that you could say:" no f*cking way anyone could survive that"

As for shin: I'm willing to believe he's dead but damnit I want to see a corpse! Until then he merely fell into the ocean for one last dive and to say goodbye to the sea before leaving. (it could just be a visual gag and as usual real world physics does not apply at this part like in so many instances I've seen in anime. I know friends of mine were laughing at this part. It was obviously designed for humor and not to be taken seriously. I mean really why on earth would sara who is probably controlling the blue stuff that makes him float, suddenly want to drop him in the ocean?? That's as bad as the street fighter animated movie joke ending with bison trying to run Ryu over with a truck )

Edited January 12, 2005 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[Final Vegeta]

I think that was the Macross they tracked in when it originally crashed...

Exactly. Compendium states: During its enemy search operation for Supervision Army survivors, the fleet happened to detect traces of an Supervision Army gun destroyer's (Macross's) defold reaction from 10 light years away and came in pursuit.

Thinking better of it, the AFOS folded, not defolded, so that should exclude it completely.

FV

Edited January 12, 2005 by Final Vegeta

[Roy Focker]

I think they both became one with Spirta.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

They had a kid called Basara who gave us his repetitive rock music that saved us from protodevlin. All the groupies who got to know him, now potentially carry basara's children and macross 7 II is being made as we speak.

Isn't the first rule of scifi that they aren't dead until you see the body?

Technically we could say Guld wasn't dead in the movie edition of macross plus because as his body is being sucked in from all the gforce we never see him actually dead, but dying. Maybe he ejected just after killing the ghost? For all we know, like in the movie Robocop they could have slavaged parts of his brain for un spacy underground black experiments to make the ultimate cyborg who could withstand those Gforces so that the yf21 project could be carried on in secret. In the future all AI controlled drone fighters would be replaced by cyborgs.

This way milllard could get what he wants: pilots that manualy pilot planes making the decisions, as well as the performance boost that the brainwave control system adds to the plane. I'm just joking. They probably just made clones of guld and had all his good memories saved and transferred to another body like what they do with the Zentradi bodies undergoing micloning in SDF: macross. ie Thier souls are kept in little jars and they join these up to the miniture bodies while the big ones are kept alive by the machines. The new guld would be like harrison ford's character in blade runner and have no clear memory of his past and Myung and Dsyson would play all kinds of cruel mind games with him by not telling his new body what all the funny, cruel and embarassing things he did before. Maybe even making little oragami models to give him hints, but still pretending nothing happened

Edited January 12, 2005 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[dna]

My take, for what it's worth.

Sara survived, taking the destructive power of the nukes and containing it so it would not harm the island below. She then left the planet which was full of kadun.

Shin was falling into the ocean until Sara showed him the way - he "hears the song" and finally understands it all. He pulls a David Bowman on us, literally becoming the bird man under his own power and leaves to find Sara. The last dip in the water? That was the point at which Sara left and he finds the power within himself, bursting from the ocean in a dramtic rebirth.

/2 cents

[Sage58]

A year or two ago, someone posted that they thought Isamu and Myung died at the end of "Macross Plus", that both were killed when Isamu slammed his plane into the SDF-1's computer core. Everything that happened after, according to the theorist, featured Isamu and Myung's ghosts coming to terms with their deaths.

The theory got a lot of odd looks and was soundly stomped on. I'm not quite sure why that's not happening again. Just watching the end of "Macross Zero", it's pretty clear Shin and Sara, both alive, fly off into the stars far away.

Edited January 13, 2005 by Sage58

[Sweekz]

1/1 LowViz Lurker why did they first call it APHOS in the beginning of ZERO then changed to AFOS? is it the dubbing? or something?

what happened to Edgar?

Edited January 13, 2005 by Sweekz

[polidread]

Sara's song, the one she uses to make the rocks float is spoken/sung in French...

and in the last part of OAV5 the rest of the Mayans were singing the same song, still in French, which leads me to think that they have French colonizers somewhere in their political history.

just me and my thoughts.

[Keith]

I think Sara came back for Shin (he definately didn't leave under his own power, and we even see Sara helping him), neither are dead, and will both pop up in a later Macross series/movie/ova, to submit a final test to humanity.

Edited January 13, 2005 by Keith

[Radd]

They may not be dead per-say, but I still wager they're no longer alive as we know it. I think 1/1 LowViz Lurker is putting a glossy coat of sunshine on how damaged the APHOS looked after it was struck by the nukes. I also don't think the forcefield was to protect it, but to contain the radiation.

Of course, this is all just conjecture.

[Eaglearcher]

And one year later... everyone on the freaking island die after the Zentraedi fleet basically annihilate the world.

Edited January 13, 2005 by Eaglearcher

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

I also don't think the forcefield was to protect it, but to contain the radiation.

I disagree. I think the purple barrier was the field. The redish smoke = the harmful stuff. And the little circles radiating in 4 directions was the fold that would contain this harmful red stuff similar to how the sdf 1 managed to contain all that water in a bubble in SDF:Macross. All that red stuff seemed almost suspended in time ad space. Rather than expanding outwards you can see that it is stuck in particular spot.

The purple barrier is only put before the missiles hit the afos not after. So it is more likely that it was used to defend against the monster attack in reflex. And the missiles' point of impact is right on top of the barrier, not through it.

For a while I was leaning towards thinking that sara is dead because of the ghost that appears to help shin lift the plane up with that blue stuff, but I can easily put this down to her strange jedi 'floating rock' tricks. Remember when they were flying on that totem pole thing? She had complete control of the thing. Face it she has alien dna that allows her special magick powers due to the bloodline of the priestesses who have preserved thier dna within thier own people and remained isolated from the rest of the world, and also because of her shamanic training. (boosting these powers through practice - but only in secret. As you will see her reaction when she discovers that shin saw what she could do and hoped no one would find out her powers) It was no wonder Aries refers to Mao as a 'valuable sample'. The alien blood type is thier link to the ancient civilisation that visited earth with these birdmechs.

You guys have got to understand that one of the tricks is to make us all think characters are dead when they are not. Or to lead an audience down a path of thinking so they can surprise and shock us later. It's like a cruel joke. Take the first episode for example where we are led to believe: "Oh my gosh! Edgar's favourite mug is lying on the sand; his remains never to be found...probably dead washed up in the middle of the ocean!" And then....pause for suspense, they decided to reveal how he escaped and ejected later on.

Same thing with the ending: shin is diving to his doom and has no response to the controls, "ARgh! he's going to die!", then he is floating on blue stuff all of a sudden.."hooray a happy ending", then they suddenly drop him in the ocean for no good reason:"Ooops wtf happened?!" and finally.. long dramatic pause..he comes out of the ocean ressurected like a phoenix:"Oh he's alive!". It's all put in for humor and to lead you into believing something is going to happen and then it doesn't. Like the earlier example of edgar's 'death'. They culd have easily shown us edgar ejecting but chose not to, to keep us waiting and watching in suspense since this is more interesting and keeps you glued to the chair.

Edited January 13, 2005 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[Final Vegeta]

1/1 LowViz Lurker why did they first call it APHOS in the beginning of ZERO then changed to AFOS? is it the dubbing? or something?

The subbing. No subber knew how to spell AFOS until the name was written in a shot. I suppose it's some kind of acronym (something like "Alien Flying Object S..."), but officially no explanation was given.

what happened to Edgar?

I don't know what you are meaning, but the anime shows he survived.

Sara's song, the one she uses to make the rocks float is spoken/sung in French...

and in the last part of OAV5 the rest of the Mayans were singing the same song, still in French, which leads me to think that they have French colonizers somewhere in their political history.

I think this is the kind of detail authors didn't think of, but it's a good rational explanation.

FV

[Sage58]

And one year later... everyone on the freaking island die after the Zentraedi fleet basically annihilate the world.

Dude. You just blew my mind.

[Sweekz]

And one year later... everyone on the freaking island die after the Zentraedi fleet basically annihilate the world.

hmmmmm i guess so?

[JValk]

My take, for what it's worth.

Sara survived, taking the destructive power of the nukes and containing it so it would not harm the island below. She then left the planet which was full of kadun.

Shin was falling into the ocean until Sara showed him the way - he "hears the song" and finally understands it all. He pulls a David Bowman on us, literally becoming the bird man under his own power and leaves to find Sara. The last dip in the water? That was the point at which Sara left and he finds the power within himself, bursting from the ocean in a dramtic rebirth.

/2 cents

I like this explanation.