The MW Automotive Thread

[areaseven]

This doesn't sound good for Ferrari.

Edmund's Inside Line EXCLUSIVE: Ferrari F430 Sales May Be Banned in U.S. for Airbag Issues

[areaseven]

For those who collect diecasts, I have three up for auction right now:

1:18 BMW M Roadster by Bburago

1:18 Dodge Viper GTS Coupe by Bburago

1:18 Volkswagen New Beetle by Gate

[emajnthis]

not so concerned about Ferrari. When they're good they're great, but when they're bad, they're horrid... and for me, this is just one of those bad times. The F430 was a big disappointment to follow the heels of the 360, and the rest of Ferrari's lineup is junk (the Scaglietti looks like puke, and the enzo is equally awful in appearance). So hopefully the F430 will stop production and Ferrari can make a real car again. Maybe a twin turbo F430 or a V10 successor. Then at least Ferrari can say their car beats the Ford GT.

[myk]

This doesn't sound good for Ferrari.

Edmund's  Inside Line EXCLUSIVE: Ferrari F430 Sales May Be Banned in U.S. for Airbag Issues

361799[/snapback]

Ah, screw the passengers, as they're just extra weight anyway. Nothing should interfere with that "man-machine" interface...

[Stamen0083]

not so concerned about Ferrari.  When they're good they're great, but when they're bad, they're horrid... and for me, this is just one of those bad times.  The F430 was a big disappointment to follow the heels of the 360, and the rest of Ferrari's lineup is junk (the Scaglietti looks like puke, and the enzo is equally awful in appearance).  So hopefully the F430 will stop production and Ferrari can make a real car again.  Maybe a twin turbo F430 or a V10 successor.  Then at least Ferrari can say their car beats the Ford GT.

361916[/snapback]

What's wrong with the F430? By all accounts, it's better than the 360 in every aspect, especially the finicky gearbox.

[myk]

I always thought of the 430 as simply being a better 360...

[emajnthis]

in theory that's true. Same platform, bigger motor, lighter body. The problem is when the 360 was released it was class leading, it's many races proved that. The 430 however is the same idea but not nearly as thought through. The motor has better hp/torque but it doesn't reflect worth crap in it's time numbers. The body looks like a baby Enzo, where the 360 was a work of art. And even after its released, it STILL can't beat the Ford GT, and it was released AFTER the GT... how pitiful is that? If nothing else you can at least beat out your competition, especially if the customer is going to pay tens of thousands more for the Ferrari.

I guess in short, the reason i'm so disappointed in the 430 is that it doesn't live up to today's expectations. The 360 went beyond the expectations of its time, where as the 430 is a shallow leap that still falls short to modern competition. Even the ZO6 Vette can put this car to shame, and you save over hundred grand.

[myk]

Thanks for clearing that up, as I had no idea that Ferrari had dropped the ball and then lost it, on the 430...

[areaseven]

Damn, it's too bad about the F430's performance. I was really digging the design.

[areaseven]

The Infiniti G35 has WHAT on its First Aid Kit?!?

[myk]

Well, if any of those high-performance import types happen to be tooling around with their female of choice and it JUST happens to be that time, well........Infiniti keeps you prepared!

[yellowlightman]

The Infiniti G35 has WHAT on its First Aid Kit?!?

362196[/snapback]

That's probably the most exciting thing they've put in a Nissan in the past 10 years.

[kanata67]

if you passenger is gonna bleed on the seat or else... it's either that or an ejection seat...

and only one of those two options might lead to a second date

[Agent ONE]

The Infiniti G35 has WHAT on its First Aid Kit?!?

362196[/snapback]

That's probably the most exciting thing they've put in a Nissan in the past 10 years.

362217[/snapback]

YLM loves his Nissans.

[pfunk]

Are they in the sister Z car?

[pfunk]

BC-NA-ODD--US-AutoShow-N 01-18 0164

Woman poses naked on car displayed at Detroit auto show

DETROIT (AP) - Officials are trying to figure out how a woman sneaked

into the North American International Auto Show after closing time to pose

naked atop the new Dodge Challenger.

It happened around 2:30 a.m. Monday when only workers and security guards

were supposed to be inside Cobo Center, The Detroit News reported Wednesday.

Guards found the woman and about a dozen gawkers taking photographs with

camera phones, workers told The Detroit News.

``We heard they were all over the Challenger,'' said Jason Vines, a

spokesman for the Chrysler Group, to which Dodge belongs. The company had

earlier had tried to give its cars more sex appeal by bringing in fully

clothed ``Desperate Housewives'' star Eva Longoria to pose at its exhibit.

Cobo Director Glenn Blanton said disciplinary action would be taken if

employees were involved in the security breach.

`We heard they were all over the Challenger,'' said Jason Vines, a

> spokesman for the Chrysler Group, to which Dodge belongs.

waiting for pictures to come out on the internet

[Lightning]

I think they already have on the Cuda-Challenger forums.....

[trueblueeyes]

The Infiniti G35 has WHAT on its First Aid Kit?!?

362196[/snapback]

That's probably the most exciting thing they've put in a Nissan in the past 10 years.

362217[/snapback]

[Gaijin]

BC-NA-ODD--US-AutoShow-N     01-18 0164

Woman poses naked on car displayed at Detroit auto show

   DETROIT (AP) - Officials are trying to figure out how a woman sneaked

into the North American International Auto Show after closing time to pose

naked atop the new Dodge Challenger.

   It happened around 2:30 a.m. Monday when only workers and security guards

were supposed to be inside Cobo Center, The Detroit News reported Wednesday.

   Guards found the woman and about a dozen gawkers taking photographs with

camera phones, workers told The Detroit News.

   ``We heard they were all over the Challenger,'' said Jason Vines, a

spokesman for the Chrysler Group, to which Dodge belongs. The company had

earlier had tried to give its cars more sex appeal by bringing in fully

clothed ``Desperate Housewives'' star Eva Longoria to pose at its exhibit.

   Cobo Director Glenn Blanton said disciplinary action would be taken if

employees were involved in the security breach.

`We heard they were all over the Challenger,'' said Jason Vines, a

> spokesman for the Chrysler Group, to which Dodge belongs.

waiting for pictures to come out on the internet

362297[/snapback]

I bet it was an internal prank.

BTW, this photo is a mock up and no, you can't see anything.

Edited January 20, 2006 by Gaijin

[Seven]

Those headlights look like they're about to shoot out lasers! And that interior looks like some futuristic space fighter...

[myk]

I bet it was an internal prank.

BTW, this photo is a mock up and no, you can't see anything.

362421[/snapback]

You're probably right. I just can't figure out why Chrysler would have to result to nonsense like this. The upcoming Challenger, or their current products, generate enough interest as it is...

[PC Valkyrie]

in theory that's true.  Same platform, bigger motor, lighter body.  The problem is when the 360 was released it was class leading, it's many races proved that.  The 430 however is the same idea but not nearly as thought through.  The motor has better hp/torque but it doesn't reflect worth crap in it's time numbers.  The body looks like a baby Enzo, where the 360 was a work of art.  And even after its released, it STILL can't beat the Ford GT, and it was released AFTER the GT... how pitiful is that?  If nothing else you can at least beat out your competition, especially if the customer is going to pay tens of thousands more for the Ferrari.

I guess in short, the reason i'm so disappointed in the 430 is that it doesn't live up to today's expectations.  The 360 went beyond the expectations of its time, where as the 430 is a shallow leap that still falls short to modern competition.  Even the ZO6 Vette can put this car to shame, and you save over hundred grand.

362160[/snapback]

I don't quite agree with your conclusions. I've never even sat in a F430, Ford GT or the Corvette Z06 yet, so I'm basing my thoughts on the various reviews I've read/seen about these cars.

The following numbers are from Road & Track.

F430

0-60: 3.5s

1/4mile: 11.7s@120.1mph

slalom: 70.9mph

Ford GT

0-60: 3.6s

1/4mile: 11.7s@125.6mph

slalom: 69.6mph

Corvette Z06

0-60: 3.9s

1/4mile: 12.1s@120.7mph

slalom: 69.6mph

I don't think the GT or Z06 "beats" the F430 in terms of objective acceleration and handling numbers. Yes, the GT has a higher trap speed at the end of the 1/4mile, so it will eventually overtake the F430 in a long drag race. I would be interested to know their lap times around the Nurburgring track in Germany (widely considered to be a good measure of a car's overall performance), but I don't have that info on me.

Regardless of the numbers reflecting acceleration and handling, most people who are in the market for the F430 will not change their mind just because the cheaper Ford GT's performance is on par or even slightly superior. "Performance per dollar" is usually not in the mind of most who can afford a Ferrari.

People buy a F430 for a number of things that are unique to the Ferrari.

1) The latest transfer of technology from Forumula 1 (like the E-differential, the wickedly fast paddle shift sequential gearbox, advanced aerodynamics to generate so much downforce without the need for any "wings", the "manitinno" switch on the steering wheel to change the car's dynamics, etc, etc, etc).

2) The visceral roar and linear powerband of the naturally aspirated high revving (8500rpm redline) 4.3L V8 making 112 HP/Litre. No supercharger or turbo required.

3) The "prestige" and cache of owning a Ferrari.

The F430 outperforms the older 360 in almost everyway, so it is indeed a step forward, not backward, for Ferrari's entry level car. When the 360 was introduced, there was no Gallardo or Ford GT as direct competitors, so of course it was unique.

It is very commendable that Ford GT can match the performance of the F430 at a cheaper price. Ferrari knows it can charge a premium for its cars because they know they have the prestige/heritage/reputation/technology over cars like the GT. Ferrari is having difficulty building enough F430's to keep up with demand. I don't think the GT is selling anywhere as well, even though it is so much cheaper.

If I had the money for an exotic car, I would pick the F430 over the GT in a heartbeat.

Edited January 21, 2006 by PC Valkyrie

[myk]

Yeah. I don't suppose people of that type of affluence could ever be convinced to buy a Ford, over a Ferrari. It's a shame that folks who would know better, such as we, are hardly ever the people in a position to make such a choice between marques...

[myk]

So. The fuse block in my Charger is in the glove compartment, and I haven't had the key to that in ages. I don't want to break the lock, and I can't follow the various lock-picking informational sites on the web, so I decided to call a few locksmiths to see what I'd have to pay for them to do it. You wanna' know what every single one of them asked me after I told them my problem?

"Do you have a key to the glove compartment?"

[emajnthis]

Numbers for the cars vary on which magazine you read. I personally like Road & Track because they have alway stated that they always quick shift but it's still flat not power shifting (meaning they actually take their foot off the gas) which is why when they do shootouts, it's more accurate than when they test separately. I have the shootout (Road & Track) that has the specific numbers that show that the GT beats the F430 in all categories including skidpad and braking. I'll post the numbers when i get home.

Personally if i had the money i would buy the GT since it's not going to be made anymore and in another 30 years it will be a collectible like the original GT40. The F430's are made in much higher production numbers for much longer years which don't make them nearly as exclusive even with the higher price tag, since most people that buy them are collectors or footballers.

Not to mention the GT has some more going for it since it can still be modified for not even a few thousand more to make it even faster. Just get a smaller pully for the supercharger and it'll push out tons more boost and tons more hp/torque. The 430's would cost another arm and a leg if you wanted to do anything more to it due to the fact that the motor is built to perform naturally aspirated. And anything more done to it would seriously deminish it's already short road life (that's not a hit at Ferrari, it's more that all exotics don't have a lot of high performance motor life without fortunes of maintenance, so shortening it even more is bad idea).

Edited January 23, 2006 by emajnthis

[Lightning]

I'll take my worn out Chrysler before any of the Supercars...the insurance on those must be CRAZY

[emajnthis]

My brother and I were talking today about classic muscle cars that really made an impact on how domestic muscle got to where it is. And of course the usual suspects come up like the Mustang and the Vette but then i remembered an old car that not many people remember... the AMX. If anyone is familiar with its history, then you know it was a mean machine, and even beat the vette's of its Era, but more importantly set the bar for the vette and mustang and other cars in the 60's 70's to push for better technology and more power. The coincidental thing is when i came home today during dinner i was on Speed channel and they were doing a special on the AMX. I wish they weren't so rare, that'd be an awesome car to have.

Also i've been too lazy to grab the R&T out of the magazine bin and then flip through the pages to the shoot out so i'll do it some other time, it's just not on my priority list.

[myk]

AMX's are cool, and from my point of view very tempting, however I've already got my hands full. In addition, sourcing parts is even more difficult than it is for my 'Charger...

[yellowlightman]

Hrmmm...

[myk]

I have NO problem with Toyota and Honda getting into the NASCAR mix. Most people consider NASCAR a dead spectacle anyway. I'm curious to see how they will do.

Anyone who feels that NASCAR should remain "American," to the exclusion of any foreign entities, is probably registered with the Klu-Klux-Klan registry in Mississippi...

[trueblueeyes]

I'd rather pull out my own teeth with a rusty pair of vice grips than sit through a Nascar race. That said, it would be great to see Toyota giving the "big three" a run for their money.

[pfunk]

AMX's are very nice cars, too bad they went under/sold out. Thiers a really nice one down the street, I think a 1970

as for Nascar, Im not a big fan, but racing is racing. It will be interesting to see if Toyota can build a 350CI motor that will compete, oh, and they were never not allowed

[KingNor]

stock car racing would be tons more intresting if they actually raced stock cars.

[pfunk]

no doubt, at least in the 60's and part of the 70's they had to run a similar built motor/drivetrain. I wonder how the v6 overweight monti carlo would fair

[emajnthis]

I hardly consider Nascar racing, it's really just one big circle of advertising. Even in a special on Speed about Nascar, the association admitted the track is a circle so that the advertisements on the cars are visible at all times as opposed to the European/Japanese thinking that cars are meant to do more than tilt to the left at 200 mph. I love watching european races like WRC, JGTC, Super GT, all of those races are on some of the most infamous tracks on the world and the skill of the drivers is beyond admirable.

Also i've been reading the Washington Post recently and the "Big Three" are all reorganizing their companies. First GM has it's 5 year plan for laying off thousands of employees and closing factories so it can start to focus on making cars that are worth a crap as opposed to satisfying their stakeholders on wall street. Ford recently has written it's 5 year plan for the opposite reasons: their company has great cars but their stock is worth crap, so they're downsizing and getting rid of excess cost to help focus attention on bringing their market shares up. Chrysler (in today's post) just announced their plan to cut production costs similar to Ford but focus on fixing Mercedes which is losing them tons of money and make sure that the people in their white collar jobs deserve to actually have them.

The only thing i could think of (growing up in Michigan) is with all of the factories closing down how devastating this is going to be to the economy in Michigan (especially because that's pretty much the cornerstone of their economy) and other industrial states where these automotive factories are going to be closing down.

Tons of blue AND white collar jobs are going to be shot down and those areas are going to be pretty depressed. Though that means great things for the automotive companies, i'm afraid that companies like GM who have very demanding labor unions may have a mixed blessing in their budget cuts.

Edited January 25, 2006 by emajnthis