The MW Automotive Thread

[pfunk]

While my car was in the shop, someone left me an offer on their business card:

"If interested in selling mustang, call Steve at ###-###-####"

Mustang?  Why would I sell my car to someone who can't tell a mustang from a firebird?  Besides, I don't think there is an angle from which my car doesn't advertise its "trans am-ness."

365623[/snapback]

give him a call and tell him your mustang has the rare trans am body kit

[KingNor]

While my car was in the shop, someone left me an offer on their business card:

"If interested in selling mustang, call Steve at ###-###-####"

Mustang?  Why would I sell my car to someone who can't tell a mustang from a firebird?  Besides, I don't think there is an angle from which my car doesn't advertise its "trans am-ness."

365623[/snapback]

I've had my 72 chevelle called a mustang twice, and a nova innumerable times.

"what year nova?" "2004"

"Nice mustang dude" " "

[KingNor]

I think that's the biggest problem with American companies right now is that they have so many divisions that are useless. 

i don't think its their biggest problem, but i definately agree on the useless aspect. For GM i think Buick needs to be dumped in favour of Cadillac, Saturn should be merged with Chevy, GMC should be axed all together (send all the trucks to chevy and the luxo trucks to Cadillac), and Pontiac should re-focused into a high performance sporty division in the vein of mopar, amg, mazdaspeed, etc (gee isn't that what they're supposed to be?).

365680[/snapback]

I've given up, when Ford makes a truck that can even come close to giving the 'vette a run for its money, its time to reasses.

I'm a loyal "old" GM fan, bel air /melt, chevelle, gto, 60's camaros, EL CAMINO!!1, 350 (my favorite motor of all time), about 30 years ago, GM was just great.

today they're a joke.

Edited February 2, 2006 by KingNor

[emajnthis]

And it really has a lot to do with who's leading the company. Ford got such a bad reputation in the past decade because of their head CEO Nasser who was turning the company to crap. Now Bill Ford has taken his place (took head CEO in 2001, and was the one who decided to restyle the Mustang and start investing into hybrid technologies) and has received tons of criticism from the board, but at the same time he's taking the company out of the stone age (the board is bitching because Ford's stock is doing terrible, but everyone knows once the company is profitable again, eventually the stocks will follow. It's called return on investment retards).

GM is where Ford was about 10 years ago where they have a bunch of douche bags who care more about their shares in the company than whether or not the company will exist in another month. I couldn't agree more with Disco about how GM should reorganize, it's exactly what my brother and i said they should do (but i was just too lazy to go into it). Pontiac is suppose to be performance minded but they don't have a single REAL sports car to market, it's more left overs from the GM parts bin.

Right now i think Chrysler (with the exception of their Mercedes counterpart) is the only American company with a head on their shoulders but still need to update their Chrysler line and actually price their vehicles what they're worth (their Viper is junk and they still charge a fortune for it).

Edited February 2, 2006 by emajnthis

[reddsun1]

I think the general concensus is that GM is and has been really mis-managed, hence the dire straits they're in. The whole thing with Pontiac just makes me shake my head. I just don't get it--how overwhelmingly it seems people in the media and in general, take every opportunity to bemoan and criticize cars like the GTO--but what the he-- has Pontiac done in-house that's worth talking about? True, the GTO's a polarizing design--folks either love it or hate the jelly-bean lines; but it can arguably be credited with re-envigorating the American coupe market. Here they had a mid-size RWD platform that's a good, strong performer. What else have they got? I've not liked their designs for a long while. A bunch of fugly, bad-disco-glitz-boy-racer-wanna-be-fake-performance-scoops-and-ducts.

[nightmareB4macross]

While my car was in the shop, someone left me an offer on their business card:

"If interested in selling mustang, call Steve at ###-###-####"

Mustang?  Why would I sell my car to someone who can't tell a mustang from a firebird?  Besides, I don't think there is an angle from which my car doesn't advertise its "trans am-ness."

365623[/snapback]

I've had my 72 chevelle called a mustang twice, and a nova innumerable times.

"what year nova?" "2004"

"Nice mustang dude" " "

365842[/snapback]

I have a 1969 AMC Rambler (currently in the planning stages to become and SC car, paint scheme "A"), and many a times, a lot of people would come up and say nice Nova or nice Falcon. I just grin and say, "It's a Rambler." All of a sudden they break out with a funny story of when their parents or grandparents had a Rambler. It's pretty cool.

[pfunk]

While my car was in the shop, someone left me an offer on their business card:

"If interested in selling mustang, call Steve at ###-###-####"

Mustang?  Why would I sell my car to someone who can't tell a mustang from a firebird?  Besides, I don't think there is an angle from which my car doesn't advertise its "trans am-ness."

365623[/snapback]

I've had my 72 chevelle called a mustang twice, and a nova innumerable times.

"what year nova?" "2004"

"Nice mustang dude" " "

365842[/snapback]

I have a 1969 AMC Rambler (currently in the planning stages to become and SC car, paint scheme "A"), and many a times, a lot of people would come up and say nice Nova or nice Falcon. I just grin and say, "It's a Rambler." All of a sudden they break out with a funny story of when their parents or grandparents had a Rambler. It's pretty cool.

365888[/snapback]

like my buddy with his 72 scout, he cringes when people say NICE BRONCO

[fearyaks]

Hmm... I'd like to throw my $.02 into the 'why American cars blow' debate.

So I live in Los Angeles, where cars are an 'accurate' measurement of one's idiocy. I can't remember how many times back in the day when someone would walk up to me (I used to be a bank teller) with a MBZ and a Lexus key on their keychain and have a negative account balance.

Anway, most American 'cars' (not talking about SUVs) have a horrible reputation. Not for breaking down, not for being stupid looking, but for being so..... what's the internet word I'm looking for? 'Meh'

Now you take the retro look Mustangs and Chargers. Those bad boys look good. However, every stupid fricken poseur kid drives a Mustang in this damned town. I am a Mustang fan (if ya'll remember the car I let you you'll know what I'm talking about) and I totally dig the new Mustang. Would I ever drive one? Sure. Do I know one fricken person that wants one? No.

Now the older Mustangs were mad sellers and produced like crazy. I'm sure it too suffered from over-exposure. However, these days most American 'cars' are so 'meh' whenever I see one I think 'that's a rental car'.

Hmm.. kind of an odd rant, but I think American cars (at least out where I am in crazy Los Angeles) suffer from a 'been there, done that, rented that car' persona.

[nightmareB4macross]

Hmm... I'd like to throw my $.02 into the 'why American cars blow' debate.

So I live in Los Angeles, where cars are an 'accurate' measurement of one's idiocy.  I can't remember how many times back in the day when someone would walk up to me (I used to be a bank teller) with a MBZ and a Lexus key on their keychain and have a negative account balance.

Anway, most American 'cars' (not talking about SUVs) have a horrible reputation.  Not for breaking down, not for being stupid looking, but for being so..... what's the internet word I'm looking for?  'Meh'

Now you take the retro look Mustangs and Chargers.  Those bad boys look good.  However, every stupid fricken poseur kid drives a Mustang in this damned town.  I am a Mustang fan (if ya'll remember the car I let you you'll know what I'm talking about) and I totally dig the new Mustang.  Would I ever drive one?  Sure.  Do I know one fricken person that wants one?  No. 

Now the older Mustangs were mad sellers and produced like crazy.  I'm sure it too suffered from over-exposure.  However, these days most American 'cars' are so 'meh' whenever I see one I think 'that's a rental car'. 

Hmm.. kind of an odd rant, but I think American cars (at least out where I am in crazy Los Angeles) suffer from a 'been there, done that, rented that car' persona.

365959[/snapback]

While for the most part i strongly agree with you, but there still are a few out there that are okay.

As for good-ol'-american muscle, hands down, is the toughest to beat. Look at the classic lines of many older car amkes like Pontiac (60s), Chevy (tri-fives), Ford (50s-60s), AMC (66-69), Chrysler (60s), and so on; those are true cars. I dig seeing muscle cars, and love driving them even more.

Can't wait until the next Route 66 meet. It's always a blast to attend.

[fearyaks]

As for good-ol'-american muscle, hands down, is the toughest to beat.  Look at the classic lines of many older car amkes like Pontiac (60s), Chevy (tri-fives), Ford (50s-60s), AMC (66-69), Chrysler (60s), and so on; those are true cars.  I dig seeing muscle cars, and love driving them even more.

Can't wait until the next Route 66 meet. It's always a blast to attend.

365993[/snapback]

Oh yeah. I totally meant why 'newer' (post 1980) American cars suck (or appear to suck).

I'm a big 'classic' muscle fan. I just don't see much of that on the road anymore. I do applaud Detroit for some of their recent efforts (Mustang, Charger) but I think it's too little too late.

[nightmareB4macross]

I'm a big 'classic' muscle fan. I just don't see much of that on the road anymore. I do applaud Detroit for some of their recent efforts (Mustang, Charger) but I think it's too little too late.

365999[/snapback]

Well, I don't think of it as a late start, but more a revitalization of what american muscle cars once where. I think in these past few years the American car companies are beginning to realize just how important a true muscle lineage car is. I mean take a look to a decade ago when Chevy decided to resurge the Impala, it was nice but lacked what it's true spirit was. As for now in the present you see a lot of carmakers beginning to understand the connection between the classics designs and the understanding of what those designs and placards where really meant for. Almost all the major car manufacturers are starting to come around to the idea, and I think amongst all, the leaders of the pack are Ford and Chrysler with M series cars. The rest are just trying to catch up. Just like Dodge and their ugly incarnations of what they created with the SuperBee markings/namesake and the Hemi version trucks, what a bunch morons.

[emajnthis]

it's really hard to get the media and the public back on your side when for the past 30+ years your cars have sucked. It really had a lot to do with emissions (doesn't it always, damn tree huggers) and American's lackadaisical attitude to work around them with their sports cars. You can't really blame them for not trying to make fast cars after the 70's though because there was a huge econo box hype; of which put AMC out of business since they forget how to build an econo box (which was the original foundation of the company) after being so damn good at building sports cars. I guess we all have to sit back and see what the big 3 do about companies like Toyota, Honda, and Nissan in the next 5-10 years to see if there will even be a home for the American car (or even the American Truck ).

Also i don't have any quarrels with the GTO (I never said it was a bad car) but let's be honest, it's motor is raided from the GM parts bin and the rest of the car was jacked from Vauxhall. GM's "Performance Branch" is underperforming IMO.

Edited February 2, 2006 by emajnthis

[nightmareB4macross]

Gas prices and emissions regulations did tighten the car market (actually it choked it), but it also helped create newer stronger and cleaner fuel burning engines that are quite strong. But as far as looks go, all the car makers must have been beaten with an ugly stick. Most all of the designs from the 70-2000 are some of the most frightening vehicle ever to be produced. But at I think that is also due to the lifestyles and trends of the times. Now more than ever, car makers are realizing their mistakes (at least some) and have decided to do something about it. Wether it's a new engine or a total redesign, also a sportier retro-restyle.

But we'll see in the future things might be better or could get worse. We'll just have to wait and see.

[areaseven]

Now you take the retro look Mustangs and Chargers.  Those bad boys look good.  However, every stupid fricken poseur kid drives a Mustang in this damned town.  I am a Mustang fan (if ya'll remember the car I let you you'll know what I'm talking about) and I totally dig the new Mustang.  Would I ever drive one?  Sure.  Do I know one fricken person that wants one?  No.

365959[/snapback]

Gee, I hope you're not directing that comment towards me, as I happen to own a 2005 Mustang V6.

[KingNor]

Now you take the retro look Mustangs and Chargers.  Those bad boys look good.  However, every stupid fricken poseur kid drives a Mustang in this damned town.  I am a Mustang fan (if ya'll remember the car I let you you'll know what I'm talking about) and I totally dig the new Mustang.  Would I ever drive one?  Sure.  Do I know one fricken person that wants one?  No.

365959[/snapback]

Gee, I hope you're not directing that comment towards me, as I happen to own a 2005 Mustang V6.

366028[/snapback]

just because every poseur kid drives one, that doesn't mean that they are ONLY driven by poseur kids.

the problem is when a knuckle head gets some money and wants a nice car, some of them can only name a few, and i don't know anyone who doesn't know what a mustang is.

[MrDisco]

Pontiac is suppose to be performance minded but they don't have a single REAL sports car to market, it's more left overs from the GM parts bin. 

well to be fair all companies raid their corporate parts bin to cut costs, its just that the degree to which GM does it is astounding. i see no difference in badge engineering of the 80s and today. to me the lines should be rijigged as such:

Pontiac - sport coupes and sedans. dump the minivans and suvs

Chevy - affordable cars, vans and trucks (the vette being the exception). make the impala into a better camry

Cadillac - real luxury cars that give MB and Lexus a run for the money. I hate to say it but keep the escalade if only to sell to rappers and make money off of them

i would get suppliers to give me quality components where it counts. i may not need a super expensive gas door hinge, but i sure would want high quality parts in the cabin.

shift more production to canada. with our subsidized health care i would work with local unions to lower wages in return for jobs here. we've proven we can have world quality production plants. (naturally this is all unsubstantiated ponderings on my part. i'm sure much smarter people will prove me wrong on my points).

anyhow as it stands i would never buy another american car for the next 5 or so years. my current Regal has been absolute lemon - certaintly nothing that would lead me to believe it deserves to be considered a 'near-luxury' model. i am so hyped over Hyundai that i absolutely can't wait to test drive the sonata.

[yellowlightman]

just because every poseur kid drives one, that doesn't mean that they are ONLY driven by poseur kids.

366052[/snapback]

That's true, you also gotta remember all the 16 year old girls in the V6 'verts...

[David Hingtgen]

Rare that I can chime in, but owning a Grand Prix GTP and closely following Pontiacs over the past few years, I can. So here's a comment from someone owning a Pontiac and looking for potential replacement:

After all the "overview" stuff you get down to the details. And THAT is where Pontiac seems to have really screwed up lately. Check Grand Prix, G6, or GTO sites. Stupid option packages are KILLING sales (or at least, prospective owners are b*tching about them a lot). Examples:

Heads Up Display. Coolest feature there is, especially to plane-freaks like me. Used to be available on almost any Grand Prix. Now it is only available and standard on the V8-powered Grand Prix. So 95% of Grand Prix's cannot get it, despite being a popular option for many years.

Sunroof. Nearly every single Grand Prix ordered by a dealer has it. Some 90% of those ordered by individuals DON'T. There's a reason for that--low roof-line. Anyone over about 5'8 can't have a sunroof in a Grand Prix. But almost every one on the lot has it. There's not the slightest chance I can deal with a sunroof in a Grand Prix--I got the only GTP in Iowa without one that I've seen--and it was brought in from Nebraska.

Now, like most Pontiacs there's a bunch of audio options. But for the good one it is only available with the sunroof. Beyond stupid. People over 5'6 like amps too. To get the Monsoon system you need to be short.

So basically, my current Grand Prix has no sunroof(and thus headroom), the best sound system, and a Heads Up Display. And an auto-dimming rearview mirror. And lots of other little things.

But I can't get anything like that now. HUD is only available with the V8, and those are both hard to get and don't do well in snow (300HP+ via FWD on wide tires is not good for the midwest) (plus there's no spare tire and they have an even HIGHER percentage of sunroofs than the other models). Electrochromic mirrors flat-out don't exist--yeesh, even cheap Chevy's have those, and GP's used to--but not anymore.

Sound? I can only have the cheapest single-slot CD 4-speaker system if I don't get a sunroof. Not the nice in-dash changer with amp and XM.

Finally--onstar. It's standard on nearly every GM car now. That's $600+ of an option I don't want/need, that I'm paying for. It's just built in to the base price now. I could use that money for wheels. Also it adds an ugly antenna and its base to the rear window. I very much like my current antenna-less look.

Sorry for the rant, but I'm just ticked that a car I like can't really be "replaced". I do not want to buy the same car but with half of all my options missing. I like all my comfort/convenience features, there's a reason I paid for them. And I want those same ones on my next car---and they really should be available, now that the GP has even higher-level models. And should be available without a sunroof.

Edited February 3, 2006 by David Hingtgen

[myk]

What year GTP, Dave? As for the newer iterations, FWD V8 doesn't make much sense to me...

[KingNor]

hey david, i hear your pain man, i have a similar story but not nearly as frustraiting

basicly when i got my tiburon, i wanted the GT with no sunroof (heard they were leaky), no leather, and no spoiler.

i figured "i want less than what the GT offers and i'm still willing to pay the GT price.

but the car i wanted didn't exist.

i think this is a terrible way for car companies to do busness these days.

my grampa told me about how when he would buy a new car, he could fill out a laundry list of what he wanted:

Sport model with standard paint, fourspeed tranny with bench seat, and one door green one door red. and theyd DO IT.

why you can't get the good audio system in your GP unlessyou get a sunroof is IDIOTIC.

[myk]

It's needless to say that movies and television provide a means of advertisement, but the latest commercial featuring Han Solo's latest movie Firewall is just plain shameless about it. The main tag line says: "See the Chrysler 300C in the highly anticipated thriller Firewall..." I wonder if there's another commercial that mentions Harrison Ford/Han Solo as even being in the movie...

Edited February 3, 2006 by myk

[yellowlightman]

It's needless to say that movies and television provide a means of advertisement, but the latest commercial featuring Han Solo's latest movie Firewall is just plain shameless about it.  The main tag line says: "See the Chrysler 300C in the highly anticipated thriller Firewall..."  I wonder if there's another commercial that mentions Harrison Ford/Han Solo as even being in the movie...

366208[/snapback]

See one of America's all time favorite actors... All washed up and unable to pick a decent role for himself in the last 10 years. Harrison Ford in...

FIREWALL

[trueblueeyes]

It's needless to say that movies and television provide a means of advertisement, but the latest commercial featuring Han Solo's latest movie Firewall is just plain shameless about it.  The main tag line says: "See the Chrysler 300C in the highly anticipated thriller Firewall..."  I wonder if there's another commercial that mentions Harrison Ford/Han Solo as even being in the movie...

366208[/snapback]

See one of America's all time favorite actors... All washed up and unable to pick a decent role for himself in the last 10 years. Harrison Ford in...

FIREWALL

366214[/snapback]

HAHAHA! So true. Almost makes me feel sorry for him...almost. He has become completely ridiculous... Callista Flockhart and that stupid earring don't help either.

[emajnthis]

It's not just the Tiburon and Pontiacs, it's just about all high end cars. For some reason car manufacturers think that a sunroof is a high-end option but the people who really love cars or are tall (or just hate the slight loss of rigidity and added weight) can't seem to get rid of the damn option.

I remember that exact same thing when i was looking at the GT Tiburon's and how you couldn't get one w/o a sunroof, same thing with the RSX-S and pretty much any Honda (even the new NSX). 90% of the 2nd gen MR2's only came with T-top or moonroof, and finding an MR2 hardtop was near impossible (especially a turbo model), and with a hard top that was one of the best cars on the market. Sunroof in a luxury car is fine by me, but if you're trying to sell any type of "sports" feel to a car, get rid of the sunroof all together.

Edited February 3, 2006 by emajnthis

[fernarias]

If you don't want a sunroof on your car, just do what I did. Special order your vehicle from the dealer with the options that you want. In 2000 I ordered a A4 quattro in December and the car was delivered exactly as ordered in March. Waiting three months to get a car that you really want is not that big a deal and besides, I know my car was not sitting on the dealer showroom.

F.

[pfunk]

contrary to popular belief a factory sunroof adds integrity to the overall structure (since late 90's) because a pince flange is added and the internal "B" side structure has more shape to it. it definatlly adds weight though and personally i would only want one in a SUV

[trueblueeyes]

If you don't want a sunroof on your car, just do what I did.  Special order your vehicle from the dealer with the options that you want.  In 2000 I ordered a A4 quattro in December and the car was delivered exactly as ordered in March.  Waiting three months to get a car that you really want is not that big a deal and besides, I know my car was not sitting on the dealer showroom.

F.

366355[/snapback]

The problem is that some companies sell certain packages on their vehicles and you might not be able to get the specific combination of options that you want. It is a lot different from even ten years ago when you could walk into a dealership and nobody would blink an eye if you ordered a car with every option except AC.

[myk]

HAHAHA!  So true.  Almost makes me feel sorry for him...almost.  He has become completely ridiculous...  Callista Flockhart and that stupid earring don't help either.

366222[/snapback]

Well, from a guy's point of view, being able to court that young thang in your twilight years is something to be proud of...

He has an earring?

Edited February 4, 2006 by myk

[David Hingtgen]

Which is my point---the good sound system absolutely requires the sunroof. Period. Even custom-ordering from the factory won't help. Same with the HUD---now only available on the V8 model. (Sorry, but a 300HP V8 via FWD with a 1980's 4-speed Auto on a *2.93* axle is an incredible waste and not good for snow--any car I own MUST be decent in snow) That's the only way the GXP comes AFAIK. (We GTP owners hate our 2.93 axle---the GT's 3.05 is bad enough, but the 2.93 sucks) (Testing it out I found the GT will do 92 in 2nd, but a GTP only does 88) (I've owned both)

Anyways--I have an early '99 GTP. Every option but sunroof and block heater. Been flawless since the day I got it. Until November, when I had to swerve on a rural highway to avoid a suicidal deer and spun out the car on the gravel (forgot I wasn't on the interstate---I moved 6 inches and was off the pavement and in gravel)---thus "graveling" the right rear. Still haven't gotten it buffed out. It really needs repainting but it's such a large area it's not worth the money. Bought replacement wheel (it looked sandblasted, you could easily feel the big chunks dinged out), waiting until after winter to install it. My wheels were perfect until then. But I won't spend 4 grand on purely cosmetic damage so I will only replace one wheel with a used one and get the paint professionally buffed, and fill in the larger chips myself as best I can. (Basically the entire lower half of the car from front right wheel to rear bumper would need to be repainted plus new hand-polished wheels to get it how it was) I take incredible care of my car, the dealership always thinks it's half as old as it is. I had new car smell until 2002/2003. (Mechanics always asked me how I did it)

Yes, I hate GM option packages and deer. (that's the real problem---you can never just get an option, you always have to get the big huge packages that group random things like speakers and sunroof or HUD and brakes together)

And deer are the DUMBEST animals on the planet, I've owned goldfish that were smarter.

Edited February 4, 2006 by David Hingtgen

[myk]

I always liked the GTP, Gran Prix, etc. I would love it if it were RWD. As for option packages, isn't that the manufacturer's way of forcing buyers to purchase more equipment, whether they want it or not? Then again, some of the option groupings just don't make sense. For example, on my '97 Z28, body colored side mirrors are standard whether I liked it or not, because convertibles automatically came with that option. (?!)

[David Hingtgen]

Ooh, I'm a big fan of 4th Gen F-bodies, the '97 Camaro in particular--that's the best year for the Camaro IMHO. Got the amber tailights, but didn't have the 98's front end. I loved 96/97's with the added body moldings. Plus you could get red interiors--looked awesome on white/silver/black cars. I almost had a Silver '97 RS with the performance axle, but ended up with a '98 Grand Prix GT (same engine but FWD). Soon traded up to my current '99 Grand Prix GTP. As I've already said twice, performance in snow is a huge factor. If you own a RWD vehicle here, it means you also own a FWD one for October through March. I think I have seen a grand total of ONE F-body being driven in the snow here. (Silver Firebird when I was in college---I think like me he was only out that day because he HAD to---it was finals week)

A RWD Grand Prix is basically a GTO marketing-wise, but nowadays people ONLY ever compare it to the new Charger. I just plain like most Pontiacs, how they feel when you sit in them and how you like where they put the buttons and gauges is a factor that no magazine or number can really tell you. (I've always felt uncomfortable in Dodges for some reason) I've liked most Mazdas I've sat in.

PS---my uncle got a new 'Vette this summer, picked it up at the factory, he got EXACTLY what he wanted. (Of course, Vette's have pretty much everything standard, and he wanted everything). He brought it by and I got to ride in it--haven't been able to drive it yet.

Edited February 4, 2006 by David Hingtgen

[areaseven]

PS---my uncle got a new 'Vette this summer, picked it up at the factory, he got EXACTLY what he wanted.  (Of course, Vette's have pretty much everything standard, and he wanted everything).  He brought it by and I got to ride in it--haven't been able to drive it yet.

366689[/snapback]

Does he have a regular 'Vette or a Z06?

[areaseven]

BMW Z4 M Coupe

[Seven]

I like most of Bangle's designs, but I have always though that the Z4 is bar none the ugliest car in all of history. The bottom door line makes it look like the car is sagging in the middle. A coupe and M version don't change my opinion.

[yellowlightman]

The rear end looks nice, but that front end looks as horrible as ever.