The MW Automotive Thread

[yellowlightman]

I need to buy a new car in the 18-20K range, is the Mazda6 any good?

346079[/snapback]

Yes. Although isn't aren't Mazda6's a bit more than $20k? My Mom recently bought a 4cyl automatic hatchback Mazda6, and despite the anemic engine and wussbox transmission it's a great car. Gas milage isn't great, but it drives and looks a hell of a lot better than the competition.

[emajnthis]

For some reason my computeres wouldn't connect to Macrossworld for awhile... anywho. All I can say about the GT-R argument is if you've ever driven in one, then you'd know what the hype is about, and why there is a cult following. It's kind of like people who love the vette and people who hate the vette, i bet the people who hate the vette have probably never driven or even ridden in one. The saying, "you can't knock it till you tried it" comes to mind. Aside from that, Nissan in AMERICA is known for being boring and less than satisfactory, but Nissan in Japan is the king of all sports car makers. If you go on the highways at night to check out whos racing you'll see nothing but Nissan's or awesome lower end project cars. Again, people just need to do their research before they make posts, just like the skyline looking like a G35 with a body kit. If you go to nissan-global.com and if they still have it, there should be a skyline prototype section where you can see the newest pics and specs. Nissan has always been good about keeping their new production cars under wraps until it's opening. Knowing the reputation and cult following they've built up with the GT-R they aim to please, and i can definitely see them doing something amazing with this new breed (especially since Lotus agreed to build their suspension, and cosworth their motor). Nissan is also well known among ALL car companies to have the BEST (and it's been thoroughly tested) AWD system in the market (Yes, much better than Subaru's and Mitsubishi's) which is why the Skyline is such a sought after car. If you look up any article about the car from all the famous car editors from any magazine, they'll tell you how amazing it is also. I have 3 friends, one of them is a rich kid who owns two skylines (R32, and recently purchased an R34) and two others that own R33's and all of them feel like rockets with wheels that can magically make seemless corners with almost no body roll. The recent R34 (before leaving production) ran a 0-60 in the 4's and a 1/4 mile in the 12's and for the sake of the gentleman's agreement only claiming to have 280bhp (yeh right!). I'd like to see ANY Ferrari compete with that. Personally, i don't care how nice your car looks, if you paid 200-300,000 for it, it better damn well beat anything on the freakin road. Because the real sports car enthusiasts knows what really matters is who wins at the end of the race (or in most suburban and cult following cases the end of the light) and whether that's done in a ferrari or a Hyundai is irrelivent.

[emajnthis]

You also might notice i'm a little bias against Ferrari, and that has nothing to do with their reputation of building awesome cars. I think Ferrari's acheive their exact purpose (most of the time) and in that i applaude them, but in recent years it just seems like they aren't trying nearly as hard as in the good ol' days. Now if you buy a 360, you have to bring it in for maintenance every 20-30,000 miles or you can be sure it will be found on the side of the road. It's cool that they put race bread technology in the car, but at the full expense of the owner. I notice that anything built 355 and prior seems to work just fine almost seemless and most maintenance can be done by the owner... i just think they came a far way away from what they were to what they are. And Porsche... well i have recently developed a very humble respect for porsche. Even with all of the ramblings from VW to force them into projects they don't want to do, they still make cars that are pretty decent (not great... that's Ruf's job).

[Stamen0083]

Anyone who builds models (particularly Honda and NSX fans. Bashers need not apply) will be thrilled that Tamiya is releasing 2005 JGTC NSX's.

http://www.hlj.com/product/TAM24286

Remolds? New molds? I don't care. It's 2005 JGTC NSX.

[Lightning]

here's a funny tidbit (from the Mopar Performance Catalog, after checking with my local Dodge Dealer): the Dodge Nextel Cup and Craftsman Truck Series teams spend almost $7,000 on just ONE engine block! Also they spend almost $2,000 on ONE Cylinder head (unassembled even!)

too much money there....

[Stamen0083]

here's a funny tidbit (from the Mopar Performance Catalog, after checking with my local Dodge Dealer): the Dodge Nextel Cup and Craftsman Truck Series teams spend almost $7,000 on just ONE engine block! Also they spend almost $2,000 on ONE Cylinder head (unassembled even!)

too much money there....

346335[/snapback]

And how long does that money last?

[Ladic]

I need to buy a new car in the 18-20K range, is the Mazda6 any good?

346079[/snapback]

Yes. Although isn't aren't Mazda6's a bit more than $20k? My Mom recently bought a 4cyl automatic hatchback Mazda6, and despite the anemic engine and wussbox transmission it's a great car. Gas milage isn't great, but it drives and looks a hell of a lot better than the competition.

346080[/snapback]

My '99 Mitsubishi Montero Sport, got trashed in the hurricane Wilma, and I got a nice check for $7500 from the insurance and the car back, which I will probably trade in for a new car, but won't get that much since its kind of trashed.

So I start my search for a new car, I like the Mazda6, i believe the Sports Sedan model is in the 19K-22K range, which can be a good option, altough I will probably lease it this time around, as I don't plain on keeping too long.

But I dunno if there are better option available, I goto look around, but basically I'm looking for something with 4 doors.

[kanata67]

I need to buy a new car in the 18-20K range, is the Mazda6 any good?

346079[/snapback]

Yes. Although isn't aren't Mazda6's a bit more than $20k? My Mom recently bought a 4cyl automatic hatchback Mazda6, and despite the anemic engine and wussbox transmission it's a great car. Gas milage isn't great, but it drives and looks a hell of a lot better than the competition.

346080[/snapback]

My '99 Mitsubishi Montero Sport, got trashed in the hurricane Wilma, and I got a nice check for $7500 from the insurance and the car back, which I will probably trade in for a new car, but won't get that much since its kind of trashed.

So I start my search for a new car, I like the Mazda6, i believe the Sports Sedan model is in the 19K-22K range, which can be a good option, altough I will probably lease it this time around, as I don't plain on keeping too long.

But I dunno if there are better option available, I goto look around, but basically I'm looking for something with 4 doors.

346650[/snapback]

know anybody with a water damage toyota extended cab pick-up for sale cheap

[myk]

I really do like that Mazda 6. Isn't there talk of a Speed 6, a higher performing version?

Also, I don't think anyone can hate a corvette, however their drivers on the other hand make it really easy to hate just about any automobile fan...

[yellowlightman]

I really do like that Mazda 6.  Isn't there talk of a Speed 6, a higher performing version? 

Also, I don't think anyone can hate a corvette, however their drivers on the other hand make it really easy to hate just about any automobile fan...

346684[/snapback]

There's a MazdaSpeed6 on the way. AWD, turbocharged... going up against the Legacy.

[yellowlightman]

Aside from that, Nissan in AMERICA is known for being boring and less than satisfactory, but Nissan in Japan is the king of all sports car makers.  If you go on the highways at night to check out whos racing you'll see nothing but Nissan's or awesome lower end project cars.

I don't think having tons of Skylines, Silvias and 180SX's constitutes Nissan as the "king" of sports car manufacturers. I suppose Honda is the sports car king here in America?

Because the real sports car enthusiasts knows what really matters is who wins at the end of the race (or in most suburban and cult following cases the end of the light) and whether that's done in a ferrari or a Hyundai is irrelivent.

346211[/snapback]

Did you learn about real sports car enthusiasts from The Fast & The Furious? There's a lot more to cars than winning lame street races.

Edited November 22, 2005 by yellowlightman

[Agent ONE]

...

Because the real sports car enthusiasts knows what really matters is who wins at the end of the race (or in most suburban and cult following cases the end of the light) and whether that's done in a ferrari or a Hyundai is irrelivent.

346211[/snapback]

Did you learn about real sports car enthusiasts from The Fast & The Furious? There's a lot more to cars than winning lame street races.

346711[/snapback]

If that were true, I'd own a vette which would have been cheaper than my M3. But then I'd have a car with a gaudy plastic interior, and one that women laugh at.

[myk]

You forgot to mention the mouse fur-like material that they use for various surfaces in the interior also...

[emajnthis]

I don't think having tons of Skylines, Silvias and 180SX's constitutes Nissan as the "king" of sports car manufacturers. I suppose Honda is the sports car king here in America?

Actually, its Skylines (R32,33,34), Silvias (S13,14,15), 300z's, 350z's, G35's, 180sx's, Sunny GTiR's, and March's (i know i'm missing a few).

Did you learn about real sports car enthusiasts from The Fast & The Furious? There's a lot more to cars than winning lame street races.

346711[/snapback]

I think you're missing the point. You're taking a snippet of my reply to your narrow views, but then you try to make my views look narrow by taking sentences out of context, you're like a liberal. Anyway, Honda is by no means at all sports king here, honestly (they don't even have a real sports car in my eyes), America is too big of a melting pot to classify a "king" of sports cars. My reference to Japan is more proper considering there are very few American or European cars on the roads there and of the Japanese manufacturers you will see more Nissan sports cars (among competitors sports cars) than anything else.

Your opinions of the Skyline are based on assumption and not experience and thus are null until you actually drive or at the least sit in one. Even a stock Skyline pulls away from the line and jumps into corners like nothing else from the factory in its price range. The Skyline has the number 2 spot for the street legal land speed record (rated at 1600+bhp) and it has been agreed that first place would have been capable if the car was tested in more favorable conditions (it just rained). Skyline's with bolt on aftermarket modifications that do NOT include any Turbo or internal strengthening of the motor put the car in the 10 second 1/4 mile range (intercooler, intake, exhaust). And unlike a corvette, its interior has all the amenities of any modern Japanese/European sports car, leather trim, LCD Screen that displays all of the cars statistics (O2 levels, oil pressure, etc) and various other menus through out, sports seats and a perfect heal to toe brake/acceleration pedal setup. Anyone who has bad things to say about this sports car are either one) a fool or two) a hater.

There are two problems that i have found with this car (because to me there is no such thing as the "Perfect" car) and those are 1) belt driven motor, and 2) Super HIKAS which is said to be removed on the future Skyline (if you're not familiar with it, its a fancy name for all wheel steering). The Vette accomplishes its purpose as the all American RWD Big V8 pride monster and does it quite well. Obviously it has two problems also (well one isn't necessarily a problem but more of a matter of opinion) 1) cheap as hell interior 2) transverse leaf springs (i'm not getting back into this with you pfunk ) But the Vette is always under heat for criticism from haters who haven't ever driven in one or actually had enough experience with the technology and development of the car to come up with a legible conclusion. Again, can't knock what you haven't tried.

Futhermore, i used to go to the track all the time. Autocross is a great way to test the limits of your car and really see where you can tweek for improvements. In Japan they just hold street races where they turn the highways into their race track, and that's a part of their culture, which is specifically why the Skyline has a cult following, because it can kick off in a straight line AND maintain perfect handling. My reference to street racing in America is the typical American way of doing it, race to the next light (which is why American companies make cars that go fast 0-60, like the Vette), because the law enforcement would have you picked up before you got around the first bend if you tried to turn the highway into a track course.

For A1, you simply can't compare an M3 to a Vette because they serve different purposes (which is a reflection of culture), the Vette is for the American way of thinking that people could give a poo less about what they're sitting in, but it goes like a bat out of hell in a straight line. The BMW is for people who like the power when they need it but has a better feel for the road and handling (which is why they're good on the track) and still maintain the regular luxuries of any other iconic German car.

It's also not a great idea to always take your car to the track; once in awhile is good, but it puts a lot of wear on the car and especially the tires. And be sure to actually read my post before you take things out of context.

Edited November 23, 2005 by emajnthis

[bsu legato]

Paragraphs are your friends. Don't be afraid to use them.

[emajnthis]

Paragraphs are your friends. Don't be afraid to use them.

346901[/snapback]

noted

[bsu legato]

Paragraphs are your friends. Don't be afraid to use them.

346901[/snapback]

noted

346905[/snapback]

[Agent ONE]

emajnthis,

I agree with your comments about the skyline, to a point. Nissan decided to mass produce a sub supercar and charge a semi-reasonable price for it. This however dosen't dismiss the fact that it isn't interesting enough to be excited about it. Its still ONLY, bolt for bolt, an AWD G35 with a turbocharger. Nothing more. Performance gets an A, Design gets a C-.

I actually think as far as sport coupes go, the G is awesome, better looking than the M3. I just expect more out of a car that certain people get so excited about.

[emajnthis]

emajnthis,

I agree with your comments about the skyline, to a point.  Nissan decided to mass produce a sub supercar and charge a semi-reasonable price for it.  This however dosen't dismiss the fact that it isn't interesting enough to be excited about it.  Its still ONLY, bolt for bolt, an AWD G35 with a turbocharger.  Nothing more.  Performance gets an A, Design gets a C-.

I actually think as far as sport coupes go, the G is awesome, better looking than the M3.  I just expect more out of a car that certain people get so excited about.

346919[/snapback]

I have to agree with that and disagree in the same point. The formula of which they're taking is still secret. Because Nissan had to ditch their RB for emission standards they have to resort to their VQ which was tested in JGTC using a 3.3 liter not the G35's 3.5 liter. Then there was talk about it having a 3.5 liter, but now due to the history of the Skyline (purposely making an odd displacement of 2.6 instead of 2.5 to differentiate it from it's lower models) people are speculating a 3.6 or 3.7 liter twin turbo with a completely rebuilt block and internals (which is where cosworth comes in). What Chassis they're using is irrelivant since most high performance cars steal a reinforced version of their chassis from a lesser model (like the M using the typical 3 series chassis) and with Lotus helping with their suspension and Chassis work, i'm sure the frame will be the same but the rigidity will be vastly improved.

The part i agree with is design. Eventhough Nissan is notorious for releasing a production model that looks NOTHING like it's concepts, I hope they do something with the certain shape of this car. The front end leaves a lot to be desired, and in particular the C pillar just leaves me with a funny tilt to my head and a big question mark above it. I love the rear quarter of the car, but that's about as far as it goes.

Realistically, i'm excited, but then not too excited. I'm excited that the Skyline is getting a global release, no doubt. I'm also supressed in excitement because the Skyline could equally prove to be a disappointment by using a V6 and not being able to retain their I6. AWD is nothing to worry about since they're keeping that formula the same, but also price/performance is a worrysome topic for me also. As much as i love te history of this car, i'm not sure the price tag (60,000+) is going to meet the performance expectations out the factory. I have my doubts, but in the same respect, everyone just has to wait and see. Kind of like when the new Vette was announced, I had great inentions to take a mighty dump on it... but once released, I had nothing but respect for the accomplishment.

[Mechwarrior]

top

[Commander McBride]

Stop calling it the Skyline. G35 = Skyline. GTR is now a seperate model line.

As for Fast & Furious...

Look for "FF Tokyo Spy Footage" on streetfire.net. My friend and I shot that in a local canyon, came across it on the way up to run a test&tune on a local road on my friend's Starion. That's defenitely F&F, by the way, as the signs at the gate to that area said "FF TOKYO 2ND UNIT".

[emajnthis]

Stop calling it the Skyline. G35 = Skyline. GTR is now a seperate model line.

As for Fast & Furious...

Look for "FF Tokyo Spy Footage" on streetfire.net. My friend and I shot that in a local canyon, came across it on the way up to run a test&tune on a local road on my friend's Starion. That's defenitely F&F, by the way, as the signs at the gate to that area said "FF TOKYO 2ND UNIT".

347228[/snapback]

It was already established that i was talking about the 2007 Skyline GTR not the Japanese name for the G35 - Skyline 350G

Edited November 24, 2005 by emajnthis

[emajnthis]

forgive me if the picture is a bit large, but it's the only resolution of this pic i have.

[Agent ONE]

Stop calling it the Skyline. G35 = Skyline. GTR is now a seperate model line.

...

347228[/snapback]

It has a separate body, but thats it... The GTR IS a awd G35 with a turbo charger. Same chasis same engine same transmission.

[reddsun1]

Here's one for thought: impact of the use of aluminum in cars? I learned something I didn't know about [gotta love that Discovery Channel], and that's the stress-life of aluminum vs. steel. What I didn't know was that aluminum has a much more finite fatigue cycle; it won't flex or bend as in the same way that steel will. Aluminum will only stress so far, then break altogether under load. Hence the necessity to retire old airplanes to the boneyards after so many hours of flight service. So how will this characteristic affect the life cycles of high performance cars that utilize aluminum for major structures, like the Lambo Gallardo, Corvette Z06, Ford GT, etc.?

I realize engineers/designers have taken these limitations into account when they design higher performance cars--hey, it's how they earn the big bucks. I'm sure these chassis are over-engineered and processed with other alloys, so as to compensate for this metallurgical characteristic. But could this concievably limit the amount of stress and use a car can see? If a car sees a lot of high performance use, like at track-days and such; if it were used hard enough, long enough--could it experience a major chassis failure? 20, 30, 40 years ago, cars were much more disposable in use and intent, part of what makes cars like LS-6 Chevelles and 427 Vettes so much more valuable to collectors today. With people buying cars nowadays with collectibility much more at the fore in their minds, will this relegate these "soda-can" cars to some sort of hermetically sealed rooms, destined to never see any real use? Or if they are used properly [cars--especially high performance cars--are meant to be driven, after all], will it mean they have to be consigned to the scrappers after so many __ thousand miles of driving?

[Poonman]

I want one in white.

345727[/snapback]

dr. dre had one in one of his old videos from the "Chronic" days.

I don't think having tons of Skylines, Silvias and 180SX's constitutes Nissan as the "king" of sports car manufacturers. I suppose Honda is the sports car king here in America?

drugs are bad, mmkay?

don't confuse "sporty" with "sports car".

[emajnthis]

Stop calling it the Skyline. G35 = Skyline. GTR is now a seperate model line.

...

347228[/snapback]

It has a separate body, but thats it... The GTR IS a awd G35 with a turbo charger. Same chasis same engine same transmission.

347285[/snapback]

You could say the same for the M3, same chassis same engine (330ci) same transmission. But from a performance (and price) perspective they're completely unique.

[myk]

Here's one for thought: impact of the use of aluminum in cars?  I learned something I didn't know about [gotta love that Discovery Channel], and that's the stress-life of aluminum vs. steel.  What I didn't know was that aluminum has a much more finite fatigue cycle; it won't flex or bend as in the same way that steel will.  Aluminum will only stress so far, then break altogether under load.  Hence the necessity to retire old airplanes to the boneyards after so many hours of flight service.  So how will this characteristic affect the life cycles of high performance cars that utilize aluminum for major structures, like the Lambo Gallardo, Corvette Z06, Ford GT, etc.? 

I realize engineers/designers have taken these limitations into account when they design higher performance cars--hey, it's how they earn the big bucks.  I'm sure these chassis are over-engineered and processed with other alloys, so as to compensate for this metallurgical characteristic.  But could this concievably limit the amount of stress and use a car can see?  If a car sees a lot of high performance use, like at track-days and such; if it were used hard enough, long enough--could it experience a major chassis failure?  20, 30, 40 years ago, cars were much more disposable in use and intent, part of what makes cars like LS-6 Chevelles and 427 Vettes so much more valuable to collectors today.  With people buying cars nowadays with collectibility much more at the fore in their minds, will this relegate these "soda-can" cars to some sort of hermetically sealed rooms, destined to never see any real use?  Or if they are used properly [cars--especially high performance cars--are meant to be driven, after all], will it mean they have to be consigned to the scrappers after so many __ thousand miles of driving?

347363[/snapback]

Well like they say, those who live harder die faster. I don't imagine that people with the coin to buy these types of cars let these things out in the rain, let alone in conditions that will see their aluminum body parts experience considerable stress. In any case, are these car parts purely aluminum, or a composite? You would think that engineers would have taken the limited durability of aluminum into account when designing these things...

Although I remember when I had my '69 Charger in the shop for frame straightening, the guys there told me that I was "lucky not to have had a car like an NSX or something, or else the frame on that could not have been straightened out..."

[emajnthis]

Here's one for thought: impact of the use of aluminum in cars?  I learned something I didn't know about [gotta love that Discovery Channel], and that's the stress-life of aluminum vs. steel.  What I didn't know was that aluminum has a much more finite fatigue cycle; it won't flex or bend as in the same way that steel will.  Aluminum will only stress so far, then break altogether under load.  Hence the necessity to retire old airplanes to the boneyards after so many hours of flight service.  So how will this characteristic affect the life cycles of high performance cars that utilize aluminum for major structures, like the Lambo Gallardo, Corvette Z06, Ford GT, etc.? 

I realize engineers/designers have taken these limitations into account when they design higher performance cars--hey, it's how they earn the big bucks.  I'm sure these chassis are over-engineered and processed with other alloys, so as to compensate for this metallurgical characteristic.  But could this concievably limit the amount of stress and use a car can see?  If a car sees a lot of high performance use, like at track-days and such; if it were used hard enough, long enough--could it experience a major chassis failure?  20, 30, 40 years ago, cars were much more disposable in use and intent, part of what makes cars like LS-6 Chevelles and 427 Vettes so much more valuable to collectors today.  With people buying cars nowadays with collectibility much more at the fore in their minds, will this relegate these "soda-can" cars to some sort of hermetically sealed rooms, destined to never see any real use?  Or if they are used properly [cars--especially high performance cars--are meant to be driven, after all], will it mean they have to be consigned to the scrappers after so many __ thousand miles of driving?

347363[/snapback]

Then again airplanes are going 200+MPH on a daily basis where as a car goes about 60 for a few hours at the most on a daily basis. Since there really isn't a lot of load stressing the aluminum, it's properties are pretty dead set. Most of the Aluminum that does see weight is forged, and has more rigid properties.

[reddsun1]

True enough, the stress levels aren't going to be nearly what an airframe might see. I'm actually thinking well beyond practical terms--beyond most of our lifetimes. One of those "what if" questions. Just wondering if say 50 or more years from now, long after we're all dead and gone--if we haven't managed to blow ourselves and the planet up in the meantime--after the car's seen lots of miles of cruising, and some trips to the autocross and the drag strip, some rich schmoe drops a gazillion clams on a [then] vintage Corvette Z06, takes it to a track day event or something, only to have the suspension uprights snap off after a few hard laps, or the whole front clip torque-twists off the car in a suitably violent and unexpected fashion, or something ridiculous like that....

Not like it'd be remotely possible. But still, wouldn't that be a real kick in the nuts?

Edited November 25, 2005 by reddsun1

[Agent ONE]

Stop calling it the Skyline. G35 = Skyline. GTR is now a seperate model line.

...

347228[/snapback]

It has a separate body, but thats it... The GTR IS a awd G35 with a turbo charger. Same chasis same engine same transmission.

347285[/snapback]

You could say the same for the M3, same chassis same engine (330ci) same transmission. But from a performance (and price) perspective they're completely unique.

347371[/snapback]

M3 only shares the frame, the engine is different.

[Commander McBride]

If the new GTR is a Skyline by that virtue, then so is the 350Z, M45, FX45, among others.

[Retracting Head Ter Ter]

I guess what a lot of people like in the old GTR was the ability of the RB to take the stress of all the extra aftermarket modified HP up to over 4 digits. So even if the new GTR comes with 400-500hp stock but if it new block starts cracking up at 700-800 hp or lower, yeah its never gonna be the same.

[Seven]

This is awesome. Look at the engine. Now note that that V10 M5 engine is not sitting in a M5.

Hartge is up to some craziness with this car.

http://www.germancarfans.com/tuners.cfm/tunerid/7051123.001

[Agent ONE]

If the new GTR is a Skyline by that virtue, then so is the 350Z, M45, FX45, among others.

347533[/snapback]

Different frame, different cars, so no. Is a Lotus Exige a Toyota Cellica? They have the same engine... The Lotus just happens to pull over 1g and has a 4.5 second 0-60, the Cellica weigh something like 1000 Lbs more so its performance isn't near that.