Macross on the old Nintendo?

[Godzilla]

The reason why I ask this because my friend got this controller that you plug up to the to TV and you play like 70 classic Nintendo games. One thing I saw was Macross. Was that ever released in the US?

[zeo-mare]

no it was released in Japan only ,you can sometimes find it up on ebay every now and then.

[valk1j]

The reason why I ask this because my friend got this controller that you plug up to the to TV and you play like 70 classic Nintendo games. One thing I saw was Macross. Was that ever released in the US?

I wonder if Harmony Gold knows about this. I've seen this thing in the stores and keep wondering that.

[zeo-mare]

the game is so old they probably do not even care or notice it.

chris

[Dat Pinche Haro!]

my brother-in-law bought a controller simular to that...and it also had the macross game...it was really wierd since the graphics were more than basic buy even nintendo standards at the time

[Renato]

Again with this crappy game. Honestly, a limbless monkey could have made a better game.

Here's what it should have been:

Minmay Attacks... YET AGAIN!!

[Skull Leader]

I rather enjoyed the game for it's simplicity myself....

[JB0]

my brother-in-law bought a controller simular to that...and it also had the macross game...it was really wierd since the graphics were more than basic buy even nintendo standards at the time

Actually, for the time it's about average.

1985 puts it in with Super Mario 1(not 1st-gen, because the Famicom came out in 1983, but still ... old).

Go to digitpress.com, hit the online rarity guide, and ask it what came out in 85 for the NES. Macross compares quite favorably to the titles around at the time.

For a decent comparison... FC Macross came out at the same time as the FC port of 1942. Same day, if the Digitpress release dates are accurate(and I have no reason to believe otherwise).

And Macross is a FAR more impressive game than 1942. It's actually a very good game for the time.

And I'm with Skull Leader. The game's quite good. Especially as NES programming was in it's infancy when it was made.

I prefer it to Scrambled Valkyrie on the Super FamiCom. Or DYRL on PS/Saturn.

It's gaming in it's purest form, even if it could use another button or 2.

Anyone that thinks "a limbless monkey could have made a better game" is welcome to prove the point.

Sit down with a 6502 assembler and some NES documentation and MAKE a better game.

You've got access to 20 years of understanding of the hardware if you know where to look.

You aren't even limited in your choice of bank-switching chips(known as mappers in the NES community). Only the most primitive was available to Brandi in 1985.

You have the opportunity to make as advanced a game as the NES/FamiCom can handle.

Personally, I bet you'd be doing good to get Space Invaders, whether I restrict you to 1985 tech or not.

[Godzilla]

Again with this crappy game. Honestly, a limbless monkey could have made a better game.

Here's what it should have been:

Minmay Attacks... YET AGAIN!!

That was too funny.

[tetsujin]

I think it's a fun game. It's a very old-style game, having basically two screens and very simple motion and minimal animation... but I enjoy it because it's Macross, it works the transformation into the game in a sensible way (unlike Mac Plus arcade or Valk Scramble) and I like that it features the regular weapons (gunpod and missiles) rather than the outlandish stuff that shows up in most scrolling shooters, including other Macross games.

Of course it's not the deepest game... The only real depth is the ability to get good enough at the game to beat the tougher levels. It's not a staggeringly great game, but it is fun.

If you look at the super-old Famicom/NES games a lot of them are sort of at the same level... simple, utterly linear or single-screen games with minimal animation and simple-looking sprites. A lot of these were arcade ports, and I think because that was the prevailing game style a lot of non-arcade games followed that formula, too. Later on in the console's lifetime (like '87-'89) they got to the point where sprites tended to look pretty good. The graphics technology was the same (mappers notwithstanding), but they did more with the sprites by drawing in shading on the sprites (tough to do with low-color palettes). But old games like Kung Fu or Legend of Kage, these were right on the same level as Famicom Macross.

[JB0]

I think it's a fun game. It's a very old-style game, having basically two screens and very simple motion and minimal animation... but I enjoy it because it's Macross, it works the transformation into the game in a sensible way (unlike Mac Plus arcade or Valk Scramble) and I like that it features the regular weapons (gunpod and missiles) rather than the outlandish stuff that shows up in most scrolling shooters, including other Macross games.

To be fair, a lot of animation isn't really required for this style game. It'd just look silly if the reguld's legs flapped around behind it, or the glaug waved it's arms.

Scrambled Valkyrie is pretty low animation for the space sequences too.

The graphics technology was the same (mappers notwithstanding), but they did more with the sprites by drawing in shading on the sprites (tough to do with low-color palettes).  But old games like Kung Fu or Legend of Kage, these were right on the same level as Famicom Macross.

Minimizing the mappers here is kind of unfair, as the massively increased ROM size available with bank-switching of the character ROM is what made the higher resolution, higher frame rate, and more detailed sprites possible. (NES/FamiCom has twin ROM busses, one for program ROM, teh other for character ROM. Early mappers only bank-switched the program ROM, which let them make the levels bigger, but not graphics)

Later mappers also had interrupt generators, and some japanese ones even had additional sound channels.

[Renato]

Anyone that thinks "a limbless monkey could have made a better game" is welcome to prove the point.

OK, but you provide the monkey.

Anyway, what about Gradius, or even Defender? Those were better games.

Hell, I wasn't even talking about it being good or bad from a TECHNOLOGICAL stance, I meant it from a creative point of view. It's got nothing to do with the show. Blow up the main core reactor? Wha? And the repetitiveness does bring to mind the "arcade formula", but this ISN'T an arcade game, in which you pay a 100 yen coin for a few minutes of fun, it's a home system game. That's why Mario succeeded, because you have PROGRESS. Who would pay full price for a game that's the same all the way through?

Anyway, in my opinion, it's a kind of "so bad it's good" type of thing. Just like Transformers Headmasters is funny because of the laughable dub, so this also has its bright side.

[JB0]

Anyone that thinks "a limbless monkey could have made a better game" is welcome to prove the point.

OK, but you provide the monkey.

Anyway, what about Gradius, or even Defender? Those were better games.

A. You're talking to the president of the "I fartING HATE THAT CHEATING BASTARD GRADIUS!" fanclub. Any game that can become LITERALLY impossible to progress in if you die at the wrong moment is an automatic failure in my book.

As tiny a change as starting with one speedup as the default speed would make it playable, but as-is I hate it.

Maybe interesting sidenote: I LOVE Salamander, which is a Gradius spinoff.

B. Gradius NES version came out a year later. The diffrence between 85 and 86 games on the NES is massive. We went from Super Mario 1 and Gyromite to Dragon Quest, Metroid, Zelda, Castlevania, and yes, a port of Gradius.

86 was when the system picked up steam and all the good stuff really started happening.

With the exception of the single most packed-in game in history, all the games the NES is famous for are 86 or later. The 83-85 games are totally forgotten, with the exception of Super Mario 1.

C. Defender is debatable. It certainly deserves credit as the father of the scrolling shooter, but I find it too complex for my tastes generally(though I've had a fair bit of fun with it at various times on various systems).

I like my shooters simple, and never grew very attached to the 2-way scroll playfield, or the humanoid defense.

Hell, I wasn't even talking about it being good or bad from a TECHNOLOGICAL stance, I meant it from a creative point of view.  It's got nothing to do with the show.  Blow up the main core reactor?  Wha?

You were EXPECTING anime accuracy from a Famicom game?

Though I think it's clearly a version of Space War 1's final battle, reinterpreted to make a good FamiCom game as opposed to a good animation sequence.

  And the repetitiveness does bring to mind the "arcade formula", but this ISN'T an arcade game, in which you pay a 100 yen coin for a few minutes of fun, it's a home system game.  That's why Mario succeeded, because you have PROGRESS.  Who would pay full price for a game that's the same all the way through?

Many people would, especially in 1985, when gamers still understood the simple joy of an endless game that was a mere test of skill, with no measure of progress but the score.

The ability to progress towards an ending was an arcade innovation created EXPLICITLY to force good players off the machine. People could play for hours on one credit on PacMan and Space Invaders and Asteroids and whatever else you can think of, including games believed to be so impossibly difficult that no one on Earth could last for 4 waves(the original Defender)so the developers had to think of a way to limit play time that WASN'T reliant upon the player dying. They did it by adding timers and autoscroll to rush you along towards an ending that was unavoidable.

Many gamers at the time resented this, actually.

Super Mario Bros. succeeded for 2 reasons

A. it was a pack-in in America. Free games are almost always good.

B. it had Nintendo's mascot in it. Mario was a well respected name from the arcades. Donkey Kong had birthed him, and Mario Bros. had given the world a worthy competitor to the legendary Joust(which Miyamoto has admitted he was actively trying to imitate).

Yes, it's fun. But it's not THAT fun, and I wouldn't have paid 50$ for it. Certainly not when I could have Donkey Kong Jr., Dig Dug, Bomberman, Elevator Action, or the original non-super Mario Bros.

In fact, if I'd bought it in 1985, I would've been expecting an upgrade to the original Mario Bros., and been quite disappointed.

Anyway, in my opinion, it's a kind of "so bad it's good" type of thing.  Just like Transformers Headmasters is funny because of the laughable dub, so this also has its bright side.

And in my opinion it's a fine little video game with the added advantage of having a Macross license attached to it.

[UN Spacy]

Again with this crappy game. Honestly, a limbless monkey could have made a better game.

Here's what it should have been:

Minmay Attacks... YET AGAIN!!

You can NEVER get tired of seeing that.

[Renato]

Anyone that thinks "a limbless monkey could have made a better game" is welcome to prove the point.

OK, but you provide the monkey.

Anyway, what about Gradius, or even Defender? Those were better games.

A. You're talking to the president of the "I fartING HATE THAT CHEATING BASTARD GRADIUS!" fanclub. Any game that can become LITERALLY impossible to progress in if you die at the wrong moment is an automatic failure in my book.

As tiny a change as starting with one speedup as the default speed would make it playable, but as-is I hate it.

Maybe interesting sidenote: I LOVE Salamander, which is a Gradius spinoff.

B. Gradius NES version came out a year later. The diffrence between 85 and 86 games on the NES is massive. We went from Super Mario 1 and Gyromite to Dragon Quest, Metroid, Zelda, Castlevania, and yes, a port of Gradius.

86 was when the system picked up steam and all the good stuff really started happening.

With the exception of the single most packed-in game in history, all the games the NES is famous for are 86 or later. The 83-85 games are totally forgotten, with the exception of Super Mario 1.

C. Defender is debatable. It certainly deserves credit as the father of the scrolling shooter, but I find it too complex for my tastes generally(though I've had a fair bit of fun with it at various times on various systems).

I like my shooters simple, and never grew very attached to the 2-way scroll playfield, or the humanoid defense.

Hell, I wasn't even talking about it being good or bad from a TECHNOLOGICAL stance, I meant it from a creative point of view.  It's got nothing to do with the show.  Blow up the main core reactor?  Wha?

You were EXPECTING anime accuracy from a Famicom game?

Though I think it's clearly a version of Space War 1's final battle, reinterpreted to make a good FamiCom game as opposed to a good animation sequence.

  And the repetitiveness does bring to mind the "arcade formula", but this ISN'T an arcade game, in which you pay a 100 yen coin for a few minutes of fun, it's a home system game.  That's why Mario succeeded, because you have PROGRESS.  Who would pay full price for a game that's the same all the way through?

Many people would, especially in 1985, when gamers still understood the simple joy of an endless game that was a mere test of skill, with no measure of progress but the score.

The ability to progress towards an ending was an arcade innovation created EXPLICITLY to force good players off the machine. People could play for hours on one credit on PacMan and Space Invaders and Asteroids and whatever else you can think of, including games believed to be so impossibly difficult that no one on Earth could last for 4 waves(the original Defender)so the developers had to think of a way to limit play time that WASN'T reliant upon the player dying. They did it by adding timers and autoscroll to rush you along towards an ending that was unavoidable.

Many gamers at the time resented this, actually.

Super Mario Bros. succeeded for 2 reasons

A. it was a pack-in in America. Free games are almost always good.

B. it had Nintendo's mascot in it. Mario was a well respected name from the arcades. Donkey Kong had birthed him, and Mario Bros. had given the world a worthy competitor to the legendary Joust(which Miyamoto has admitted he was actively trying to imitate).

Yes, it's fun. But it's not THAT fun, and I wouldn't have paid 50$ for it. Certainly not when I could have Donkey Kong Jr., Dig Dug, Bomberman, Elevator Action, or the original non-super Mario Bros.

In fact, if I'd bought it in 1985, I would've been expecting an upgrade to the original Mario Bros., and been quite disappointed.

Anyway, in my opinion, it's a kind of "so bad it's good" type of thing.  Just like Transformers Headmasters is funny because of the laughable dub, so this also has its bright side.

And in my opinion it's a fine little video game with the added advantage of having a Macross license attached to it.

OK, then.

By the way, not to go OT, but there was a Salander anime out a few years back. Haruhiko Mikimoto did the character designs!

[JB0]

By the way, not to go OT, but there was a Salander anime out a few years back. Haruhiko Mikimoto did the character designs!

Based on the game?

They'll make anythign into anime, won't they?

...

Dammit, now I have to see this thing.

[Valk009]

I actually have that game on one of those "all-in-one" game cartridges for the Gameboy Advance handheld!

I must say the game is pretty crap, even for the standards of the mid '80s; Salamander, Gradius and 1942 were all far better shot'em up games!

My feeling is that all the Macross games on handheld units are really poor; just look at the new version for GBA under the title Robotech or something like that. besides some little better graphics, which is still crap, it is more or less the same old game as the old '80s Nintendo version!

Andy

[Renato]

By the way, not to go OT, but there was a Salander anime out a few years back.  Haruhiko Mikimoto did the character designs! 

Based on the game?

They'll make anythign into anime, won't they?

...

Dammit, now I have to see this thing.

Yeah, based on the game. I think it's an early 90s thing, 'cause his artwork looks like Macross II era. I remember it being out in the UK about ten years ago, I doubt it ever got a DVD release.

Dammit, now *I* want to see this thing. I'll look around my usual haunts and see what I can find. I got a copy of Video Girl Ai the other day (Production IG's early days), so anything is possible.

Edit -- I took this exit off the Anime Web Turnpike:

http://www.animejin.org.uk/salama.htm

Hmm...

Edited January 13, 2005 by Renato

[Renato]

I actually have that game on one of those "all-in-one" game cartridges for the Gameboy Advance handheld!

What game? The original NES one? You mean they ported it over to GBA?

[JB0]

I actually have that game on one of those "all-in-one" game cartridges for the Gameboy Advance handheld!

I must say the game is pretty crap, even for the standards of the mid '80s; Salamander, Gradius and 1942 were all far better shot'em up games!

Macross was a year before Gradius. A lot happened on the NES that year, too.

And personally, I prefer Macross to Gradius and 1942 both. Though choosing Macross or Salamander's kinda hard(assuming we use PROPER Salamander, and not one of the Gradius powerup versions).

My feeling is that all the Macross games on handheld units are really poor; just look at the new version for GBA under the title Robotech or something like that. besides some little better graphics, which is still crap, it is more or less the same old game as the old '80s Nintendo version!

Actually, the GBA Rawbooteck game is more like a bastardized version of the PS1/Saturn DYRL game, which is a far cry from the old '84 FamiCom game.

Speaking only of DYRL, and not hte bastard child... Personally, I like the shoulder button transformation, the ability to use missiles as a standard weapon, and the greatly expanded gameplay, but the battroid sucks. Then again, battroid sucks in the FC game too.

If I had to pick one Macross game, it'd be DYRL. Then FamiCom, then Scrambled Valkyrie, then the arcade DYRL.

[Valk009]

QUOTE (Valk009 @ Jan 12 2005, 08:07 PM)

I actually have that game on one of those "all-in-one" game cartridges for the Gameboy Advance handheld! 

What game? The original NES one? You mean they ported it over to GBA?

Yep, you can actually get most of the NES games on GBA nowadays; it usually is something like "118 in 1 games" or "256 in 1 games" with a few new GBA titles and the remaining all NES games. These are of course boot carts! Nintendo then quickly followed suit and released a line of classic NES games in '80s packaging with titles like Super Marion Bros., Zelda etc.

I heard that they are also working on getting the SNES games to work. The last I know was that they working SNES games on GBA but no audio, this was about six months back and I have not updated myself with any GBA info

[JB0]

QUOTE (Valk009 @ Jan 12 2005, 08:07 PM)

I actually have that game on one of those "all-in-one" game cartridges for the Gameboy Advance handheld! 

What game? The original NES one? You mean they ported it over to GBA?

Yep, you can actually get most of the NES games on GBA nowadays; it usually is something like "118 in 1 games" or "256 in 1 games" with a few new GBA titles and the remaining all NES games. These are of course boot carts! Nintendo then quickly followed suit and released a line of classic NES games in '80s packaging with titles like Super Marion Bros., Zelda etc.

You can also buy a flash cart and make your own NES multicart.

I'd bet the pirates are using PocketNES anyways.

[tetsujin]

I actually have that game on one of those "all-in-one" game cartridges for the Gameboy Advance handheld!

NES Macross is not a game to be playing on the GBA. The GBA doesn't have the resolution for it, and when the game is scaled down to such a small LCD screen the small size and slight latency in the pixels makes it almost impossible to see enemy shots. That, in my experience, makes it really un-fun.

[JB0]

I actually have that game on one of those "all-in-one" game cartridges for the Gameboy Advance handheld!

NES Macross is not a game to be playing on the GBA. The GBA doesn't have the resolution for it, and when the game is scaled down to such a small LCD screen the small size and slight latency in the pixels makes it almost impossible to see enemy shots. That, in my experience, makes it really un-fun.

Actually, the GBA doesn have the resolution, sort of. Horizontally it's about perfect(8 pixels per side are missing, but they're usually unused on a real NES due to overscan issues), vertically it's not quite tall enough(3/4s what it needs after taking overscan non-use into account).

PocketNES has options for unscaled using shoulder buttons to scroll up and down, scaled down, and scaled backgrounds with sprites left as-is(the method Nintendo's own emulator uses).

Method 3 sounds dangerous for a game like a shooter, where knowing your hitbox precisely is important. I wouldn't use it here(and also wouldn't buy the GBA Xevious cart from Nintendo for that reason). Method 2 mucks the aspect ratio, and method 1 leaves you with a partial screen view, so aspect is clearly the lesser of 2 evils here.

Whether hte screen is large enough or not is another story. I think it is, especially with the high contrast graphics used.

[Skull Leader]

I think all of the discussion about which game is "better" is really a moot thing. Everyone seems to seek something different from their shooters... so it's basically more of a question of what bends your taco the most. Macross for the Famicom had everything I really wanted out of a simple shooter... especially being neverending. The variable-dynamics are actually employed in the game pretty well, all things considered. Probably almost a revolutionary thing for that time in gaming history. I do agree that the game is not for feebs who cannot see past the fact that the game does not have an ending... racking up the top-score used to make you the stuff of legends in local arcades (my local Walmart was constantly graced by some guy with the initials LTH... and he was damn good... I never got to face off against them, but I was always dueling to beat his scores, and only sometimes making it). I'll sum it up in one phrase: Any feeble-minded donkey with a strategy guide can blow through HALO2 and beat it... it takes real skill to continually maintain the top score on a hot arcade game for more than a few weeks.

Whine all you want, I think they did it right

DYRL does rate as one of my all-time favorite shooters. The gameplay is very well executed (the modes are easy to master, and can be accessed at just about any time), the graphics are gorgeous (I could've delt with a slightly smaller valkyrie for more on-screen action, but what they did is fine), the soundtrack couldn't be any more perfect (hell, they pulled it direct from the movie!), and the stages follow the story pretty well (and the add-on filler stages are tastfully applied, I think). DYRL is very much the end-product evolution of the original Famicom Macross, and both are magnificent games.

I have the PSX version of DRYL ( comes with a VF-X2 and Patlabor demo) that I considered getting rid of for the longest time... now I'm not so sure I wanna get rid of it I think I just talked myself into keeping it!

Edited January 25, 2005 by Skull Leader

[Apollo Leader]

At several of the local malls this past Christmas, there were a few stands where they were selling those N64 looking controllers which have a gazillion NES games including the Macross game. I've been very tempted to get one of these solely for the purpose of having an actual playable copy of the old Macross Famicom game (I have the actual Famicom game, but no way to play it!), but I've been too cheap to buy it.

Since I've seen these for sale for the last few years, I wonder how legal these are? I would have thought either Nintendo or Harmony Gold may have gone after this company by now.

[JB0]

Since I've seen these for sale for the last few years, I wonder how legal these are? I would have thought either Nintendo or Harmony Gold may have gone after this company by now.

Problem is it's very decentralized. And made in countries with no real copyright enforcement(if the laws even exist).

Nintendo HAS started suing importers, but that's about all they can do. In China, they can't fight the Famiclones legally, so they fight economically. They launched a N64-in-a-pad called the IQue that used flash RAM cards. Logic was that they could undercut the pirates by flashing new games onto the cards cheaper than pirates can burn ROMs and solder them onto boards, while offering a superior product. I don't think the IQue made much headway, though.

[Black Valkyrie]

Maybe interesting sidenote: I LOVE Salamander, which is a Gradius spinoff.

Nice to have another Salamander fan here !, it`s my favorite shooter of all time. As for Famicom Macross I play it some times, nothing wrong with it but I still prefer Mac-DYRL (SS, PS) and the new one for PS2.

[gerwalk25]

Again with this crappy game.  Honestly, a limbless monkey could have made a better game.

Here's what it should have been:

Minmay Attacks... YET AGAIN!!

At least it played better than RT on GBA . Seriously I'd play the Namco Famicom version (I once had an HK famicom with a 40 game cart with Mac and I liked simply because it's macross.) than TDK's/Lucky Chicken's poor excuse of a Macross GBA game .

Edited February 2, 2005 by gerwalk25

[JB0]

Again with this crappy game.  Honestly, a limbless monkey could have made a better game.

Here's what it should have been:

Minmay Attacks... YET AGAIN!!

At least it played better than RT on GBA . Seriously I'd play the Namco Famicom version (I once had an HK famicom with a 40 game cart with Mac and I liked simply because it's macross.) than TDK's/Lucky Chicken's poor excuse of a Macross GBA game .

I'd play just about anything before I'd play the GBA Rawbooteck again. It's just painful.

[Skull Leader]

I got the RT GBA game just for the SD Max VF-1A figurine that came with it, and I "returned" the game about a week later. Harmony Gold truly IS reaching new heights.. I didn't know one company could fit so much SUCK into a tiny little cartridge!

[JB0]

I got the RT GBA game just for the SD Max VF-1A figurine that came with it, and I "returned" the game about a week later. Harmony Gold truly IS reaching new heights.. I didn't know one company could fit so much SUCK into a tiny little cartridge!

I got it because I was hurting for some scrolling shooter action, and how bad could it possibly be? It was also on sale for 10$...

Alas, it's pretty bad.

As far as how much suck... I've heard the GBA port of RType 3 is even worse(invisible enemies and really poor hit detection). Pity, because I really wanted that one.

[Jasonc]

I was wondering if any of you who bought that 50 in 1 with the Scrambled egg, I mean Valkyrie game know what brand it is and if you have a link to get one. I may actually be interested in it for Shizzles and giggles

[Skull Leader]

They're all the same... they just have a different shape (I've seen dreamcast ones, N64 ones, N64 controller ones, etc) they should all have the same games on them.

[JB0]

They're all the same... they just have a different shape (I've seen dreamcast ones, N64 ones, N64 controller ones, etc) they should all have the same games on them.

Actually, they don't a lot of times. There's no one Famiclone manufacturer, and every chinese pirate company has their own ROM in the package.

...

Personally, I'd get a cart-based Famiclone. With a FC-NES adapter, it becomes a quite servicable and relatively unique NES deck*. And it opens up the possibility(with a quick soldering job to make an adapter) of using any NES accessory instead of just what hte famiclone comes with.

*Not one of the lame PS1/N64 case knockoffs. But there's so many diffrent styles out there that it's hard to not find one you like.