Hasegawa Havoc

[Aurel Tristen]

Hello all, first let me say that I don't have any model building skills, but I am going to be trying my hand at them soon.

Hasegawa has produced some awesome looking kits, the some of the model detailed kits to date. However, I have a gripe about their VF-1 kits. I'm not certain if this has ever been discussed or not. (It probably has)

Unfortunately, Hasegawa has apparently screwed up several things that Studio Nue has specified.

Studio Nue's 4 hardpoint specification - screwed-up there are a lot more hardpoints under a Hasegawa's wings.

UUM-7 Micro Missile (weapons set)

5 Rearward-firing HMM-1s of the UUM-7 micro missile pods - screwed up

2 crooked leg/engine pods - screwed-up schematic-why couldn't they just use Shigeki Ninomiya's plans as a basis?

4 vernier thrusters on leg/engine pods - screwed up-they seem to think those are lights and not nozzles when Kiyomi Tanaka (Studio Nue) has drawn those very detail internal cutaways and labeled them as being vernier thrusters.

I thought Hasegawa was working with Kawamori to ge these things as correct as possible.

Just curious, has anyone ever modified their Hasegawa VF-1 kits to correct these errors? (Filing down those incorrect hardpoint locations etc.) Also, did anyone ever thing about making a modification kit for that purpose?

[Kylwell]

Uhm..according to all the sources I've got the Val only has 4 wing hardpoints (2 per wing).

Dunno about the rest.

[Akula]

UUM-7 Micro Missile (weapons set)

5 Rearward-firing HMM-1s of the UUM-7 micro missile pods - screwed up

There are no rear-ward firing missiles in my Weapons package... the holes that go on the back of the pod are for exhaust, like a Bazooka, instead of like on a battle-tech 'mech, where they didn't think about the gasses/fire created by firing a missile...

The 4 hard-point sugestion was something I noticed, but I don't feel the need to correct it.

They did provide light-cover clear pieces to cover what I expected were venier thrusters as well. (I just leave them off and paint the hole black)

I'm not sure what you're point is on the leg FAST-packs... I'm sure that whenever you see a valkyrie (in DYRL or the ROBOTECH series) they bend their legs to accomodate them.

Edited January 2, 2005 by Akula

[Aurel Tristen]

UUM-7 Micro Missile (weapons set)

5 Rearward-firing HMM-1s of the UUM-7 micro missile pods - screwed up

There are no rear-ward firing missiles in my Weapons package... the holes that go on the back of the pod are for exhaust, like a Bazooka, instead of like on a battle-tech 'mech, where they didn't think about the gasses/fire created by firing a missile...

The 4 hard-point sugestion was something I noticed, but I don't feel the need to correct it.

They did provide light-cover clear pieces to cover what I expected were venier thrusters as well. (I just leave them off and paint the hole black)

I'm not sure what you're point is on the leg FAST-packs... I'm sure that whenever you see a valkyrie (in DYRL or the ROBOTECH series) they bend their legs to accomodate them.

http://nanashino.macrossmecha.info/aerosplw/uum7.html

5 of the 15 missiles are suppose to launched rearward per Studio Nue's designs (Kawamori's and Tanaka's)

The Hasegawa side schematic schematic depicts a crooked leg panel lines... not sure if the actual kit looks that way...

[Graham]

Hasegawa is pretty famous (at least in my book) for ad-libbing with the details on their Macross kits.

Another example with the VF-1 series would be the mid-line fold point on the tail fins, which only exists on the Hasegawa kits and not in any official source material.

Hasegawa's inaccuracies are not limited to the VF-1 series. On their VF-0 kits they have added a whole lot of panel lines and rivets that are not shown on any official line art.

While the Hasegawa Macross kits are for the most part nicely sculpted, they do have errors and shouldn't be taken as being the ultimate source of accuracy.

Afterall in the end, they are just the sculptors intepretation of the mecha, not the be all and end all as far as accuracy goes.

Graham

[Aurel Tristen]

Hasegawa is pretty famous (at least in my book) for ad-libbing with the details on their Macross kits.

Another example with the VF-1 series would be the mid-line fold point on the tail fins, which only exists on the Hasegawa kits and not in any official source material.

Hasegawa's inaccuracies are not limited to the VF-1 series. On their VF-0 kits they have added a whole lot of panel lines and rivets that are not shown on any official line art.

While the Hasegawa Macross kits are for the most part nicely sculpted, they do have errors and shouldn't be taken as being the ultimate source of accuracy.

Afterall in the end, they are just the sculptors intepretation of the mecha, not the be all and end all as far as accuracy goes.

Graham

It is a shame. I think Club-M, TANMEN and Studio Half have better kits.

[Graham]

It is a shame. I think Club-M, TANMEN and Studio Half have better kits.

Yes, but they are all very expensive and harder to find small production run resin kits, whereas the Hasegawas are at least mass-market items and thus easier to find and much cheaper to buy.

At least the Hasegawa kits have nicer proportions than the older Bandai, Imai and Arai plastic models.

Graham

[Ido]

0.02

I like the changes in the Hasegawa kits, I think they improve a lot the look and the realism, the only thing I dislike are the UUM-7 pod, they are worse and too big.

Some one has good pics of the Club-M Vf-1 anyways?

[Jedi Knight]

Well, regarding the UUM-7 missile pods: according to the VF-1S schematic poster that comes with the famous "Gold" DYRL book, there are missiles facing forward (with 5 for reload), and 5 facing backward. The pod is also depicted as having a removable rear hatch. But if all 15 do fire forwards only, that would be for reloading back at base. Then again, wouldn't used pods be jettisoned to improve performance, like spent fuel tanks?

As for venting, isn't that what the "vanes" going around the entire pod just in front of the mounting support, are for?

[Aurel Tristen]

Well, regarding the UUM-7 missile pods: according to the VF-1S schematic poster that comes with the famous "Gold" DYRL book, there are missiles facing forward (with 5 for reload), and 5 facing backward. The pod is also depicted as having a removable rear hatch. But if all 15 do fire forwards only, that would be for reloading back at base. Then again, wouldn't used pods be jettisoned to improve performance, like spent fuel tanks?

As for venting, isn't that what the "vanes" going around the entire pod just in front of the mounting support, are for?

10 fire forward, 5 fire rearward. That is obvious. I'm sure this can be seen on screen as well in the movie. The micro missilew (if no rear targets) swoop around with their vernier thrusters to the front.

[wm cheng]

I really like Hasegawa's interpretation - I feel it's more realistic and gives it an authentic aeronautic feel.

[neptunesurvey]

I agree.

[Myersjessee]

Ive always said thats the difference (IMO) Club M, Orange Collection, Tanmen all seem to follow the line art and while similar seem to have a feel more akin to the cartoon. In a cartoon there can't be as much detail, and Ive always assumed there are little details left out of the line art that you would not see unless close up to the plane. In contrast, Hasegawa takes liberties to make it look more "real" for a great display model...but the realness does detract from some of the faniful cartoon feel. I don't think either is horrible. Nanashi's point is valid, but I don't feel it's a shame Hasegawa is doing the kits either...I love their detail and I love the final realistic look for the models. As for the ClubM, Orange Collection and other resin kits...I love their feel that seems to lend itself towards the original work. Either can be picked apart, but I feel both have merit, and are great artistic imterpretations for the original work. (and lets not forget the kits are readily available and 1/4 or less the price of the ClubM stuff (and thats after the market crash due in part to the availabilty of the Hasegawa kits. )

As far as the idea for adding detail for the sake of it...I understand and partly agree with Graham's point...but at the same time I recently went to the museam of air and space in Washington DC. I was taken aback by all the tiny details just on a rocket booster bell (from the X15) that I never noticed in any kit or picture. The technology is dumbfounding....I guess the reason I like the Hasegawa stuff is the bring some of this detail to life....right or wrong accurate or inaccurate it's an interpretation.

[jadefalconguard]

Maybe the wrong place to ask, but can someone point me to a 3 sides line drawing of the VF1 ? I'm working on a recast from G system in 1/48 scale. his one only has 4 wingpoints for ordenance which seems correct.

Thx for the assist

G.

[Aurel Tristen]

Its not that its an animation. The Valkyrie has been envisioned and designed in great detail. I am saying that Hasegawa's adlibbing is shameful and is blasphemy.

Even early on:

There have been tons of details specified by Studio Nue and Hasegawa has gone against some of the fundimentals of the VF1's designs. They should have paid more attention to Nue's drawings and own schematics. Actually, it seems their changes appear deliberate.

The VF-1 would have rearward targeting (optical sensors on wrists while in Fighter mode) that's why the 5 missiles in the UUM-7 pods are faced rearward. The original folding V-tail is just fine.

I have heard of someone filing off the addition hardpoints.... has anyone considered making a resin mod kit?

[Myersjessee]

Nanashi...While I heartily disagree with any statements that use words like shameful and blasphamy particuarly when it comes to plastic models based on a cartoon, I am very respectful of your obvious love of the topic. I always say I can't see the details that many of you do. I look at most Macross, Robotech, Star Wars, etc toys/models and see the intended view into a product that reminds me of my childhood. I don't seem to have the capacity to obsess over whats wrong, but rather I revel in whats right, whats good, and what it reminds me of...a wonderful time...my youth..now lost...but never forgotten. It floods back to me when I look upon a VF1, a Snowspeeder, or a Legioss. Sometimes I wish I could see it the way the fanatics do. I recently read on the RPF how some people are disapointed with the Master Replica's AT-AT. A beautiful piece, which to me seemed the ultimate display piece, is not perfect to the studio model, and thus they are frustrated. I look at the side by side comparisons of the "problems" and I wonder how they could have figured out the differences...so small are they to my better then 20/20 vision. 20/20 vision that doesn't see these flaws, or just naturaly looks past them. And just as I say there are times I wish I could see that detail there are times I'm glad I don't. I respect your devotion, your love your obvious dedication to the perfection of Macross exactly as it was intended, but I feel sorrow that you don't feel the same joy I do when I look at my Hasegawa VF1A...for all appearent flaws a model that reminds me of a day at home, laying on the front yard, wondering skyward why the airforce hadn't build a transforming jet.

Good luck in your quest for perfection, but don't forget to smile at the wonder all around you.

[Jagull]

er, um what are hard points?

[Kylwell]

er, um what are hard points?

Hard points are what they hang the ordinance off of. Those spots on the wing where the missiles go.

[Myersjessee]

er, um what are hard points?

SNARF!!!!! If you were joking, that may well have been the best post ever! (If you weren't your question has been answered and don't I feel dumb! )

[AlphaHX]

did only hasegawa make this mistake or did club-m do the same thing?

itll be a shame if theres no accurate vf-1 model... resin or plastic.

[Jagull]

er, um what are hard points? 

SNARF!!!!! If you were joking, that may well have been the best post ever! (If you weren't your question has been answered and don't I feel dumb! )

nah, wasnt joking. Never heard the term before

Jagull != not knowledgeable in aircraft mechanics/terms/anything

just think they look damn cool

[HWR MKII]

Hardpoint: military technical term for a hardened area in an acft wing that is capable of having fully loaded pylons attached to it.

since these loads can exceed 2000 pounds or more they structurally reinforce the area hence the term hadrpoint. The pylon is what the stores attach to no ordinance attaches directly to the aircraft. there is always a pylon or bomb rack mounted to a hardpoint for that.

Edited January 10, 2005 by HWR MKII

[jadefalconguard]

Its not that its an animation. The Valkyrie has been envisioned and designed in great detail. I am saying that Hasegawa's adlibbing is shameful and is blasphemy.

There have been tons of details specified by Studio Nue and Hasegawa has gone against some of the fundimentals of the VF1's designs. They should have paid more attention to Nue's drawings and own schematics. Actually, it seems their changes appear deliberate.

The VF-1 would have rearward targeting (optical sensors on wrists while in Fighter mode) that's why the 5 missiles in the UUM-7 pods are faced rearward. The original folding V-tail is just fine.

I have heard of someone filing off the addition hardpoints.... has anyone considered making a resin mod kit?

Some basic modelling skills suffice for rescribing the panel lines. For the hardpoints, these are 'optional' parts, so you can choose to install them. Repositioning these isn't that difficult, so I don't think there are any 'updatesets' for this.

In the defense of Hasegawa, they made a realistic VF1 model, which could be able to fly. They have designed there kit with the same reallity sense they use in their normal fighter kits. But I agree they should heve kept closer to the "real thing"

[Jagull]

well look at that, i learned a new term

[Vince]

I'm just happy they made one

[spellbinder99]

I am with you Myersjesse, using words like shamefull and blasphemy about a model kit is more than a little over the top. If these "errors" annoy someone so much, then change them when you actually build the kit.

Otherwise just retreat into the safe little world where Valkyries are real and some Japanese wage-slave artist is revered as a deity

It's modelling, it's a hobby, it should be fun for frells sake.....

Cheers

Tony

[AlphaHX]

Hasegawa is pretty famous (at least in my book) for ad-libbing with the details on their Macross kits.

Another example with the VF-1 series would be the mid-line fold point on the tail fins, which only exists on the Hasegawa kits and not in any official source material.

Hasegawa's inaccuracies are not limited to the VF-1 series. On their VF-0 kits they have added a whole lot of panel lines and rivets that are not shown on any official line art.

While the Hasegawa Macross kits are for the most part nicely sculpted, they do have errors and shouldn't be taken as being the ultimate source of accuracy.

Afterall in the end, they are just the sculptors intepretation of the mecha, not the be all and end all as far as accuracy goes.

Graham

It is a shame. I think Club-M, TANMEN and Studio Half have better kits.

Get the Club-M kit then. Problem solved.

I have both the Hasegawa and Club-M kit. Both of them were well worth it imo. But in the end its all the same, I'll make them, color them and display em. Nothing I'm going to obsess over when all done and over with.

[Aurel Tristen]

"highly-detailed mistakes" ^^

Its just, I thought that Hasegawa was working with Kawamori to get things as accurate as could be... maybe that was Yamato... but wait-they couldn't even give the YF-21 a single nose wheel like its supposed to have.... LOL

I don't hate Hasegawa (or Yamato), they could have just done things better.

[Myersjessee]

I can agree with that.

[AlphaHX]

I could agree with that too.

Seriously, I for one am glad that to share your knowledge of Macross in all of its glory of designing details but just as a warning, most of us are just happy there are even models or toys for us fans so dont over criticize it or youre going to make a lot of people unhappy.

With the way things are heading, Yamato doesnt even seem to have the YF-19FP in sight and Hasegawa looks to be done after Zero. I for one am just hoping they continue to MAKE Macross models/toys let alone getting it perfectly correct.

Pointing out the mistakes are fine but dont go overboard on the criticisms.

[Aurel Tristen]

There are some talented people out there (and here too). They can make things more perfect. In fact there are many fans out there trying to make more perfect Macross.... of course the only perfect Macross is that Macross in Kawamori's head.... which can't fully be seen when put into animation or anything else. But, fans usually do a much better job than what the companies usually turn out.

Anyways, people can take me as serious as they want. We all have our opinions and convictions : ) Competition for more accurate Macross things makes for exercising people's talents whether its drawing with a pencil, making 3D CG models, animation, resin sculpting, music, technical information, or a combination of various things. Otaku (like myself) can be silly/crazy/unbalanced and there isn't necessarily anything wrong with that (as long as they take baths more often than not. ; ) They can be passionate and they can be driven. This can bring something special. Of course there are many people on these boards which don't care much about certain things or rather they don't care enough and there are some people who are just plain lame a-holes don't do anything but not believe in Macross or have a noble grasp of it..... but anyways. Then there are some people who sit on tons and tons of cool Macross source material and don't get their freaking sites up and running!! hahahahah ahhaahahaahaa *runs away*

(I'm sure someone will take offense to this... there is always someone who takes offense to something/anything/everything. For them...... we have reaction weaponry FOR REAL MMmmmmm )

[FlyingPika]

Remember, this isnt animation drawings, this is supposed to be as close to realism as possible. Any true modeller knows its the finer details that add realism.

Sadly something bandai never realised.

[Aurel Tristen]

Remember, this isnt animation drawings, this is supposed to be as close to realism as possible. Any true modeller knows its the finer details that add realism.

Sadly something bandai never realised.

I'm mainly talking about stuff that Hasegawa fudged/pulled out of their @$$es/that conflict completely with the creators' original designs and concepts vs. cutaway stuff that was [partially] created in CAD realistically by Kiyomi Tanaka (Studio Nue).

[P.W.Royce]

Remember, this isnt animation drawings, this is supposed to be as close to realism as possible. Any true modeller knows its the finer details that add realism.

Sadly something bandai never realised.

God is in the details!

[broadshore]

I just resently pick up the 1/72nd Hasagawa VF-1S. It's a rather detailed kit. Way better then any of the older Macross kits. Has almost the sences of Realism vs. Cartoon.

I think Hasagawa did a rather great job on the kits. Just wish they made then in 1/48th scale for Decal sences.