why transforming valks in macross zero?

[JB0]

Also the gunship undock from the ship while its transforming it won't have defence like the rest of the ship.  the pinpoint barrier if it has one won't be as strong as the main.

The pinpoint barrier's funciton isn't really explained, but we know the barrier isn't powered solely by the ship's intenral power source. It operates with energy from a dimensional rift, at least in the original show.

I say all the rules we normally work with go right out the window there.

For all we know, alll barrier disks are equal in power, just diffrent size. Which would mean a beam larger than the barrier disk is gonna rip through you from spillover, but other than that anything a battleship can deflect is something a tiny fighterplane can deflect.

Heck, smaller disks could be STRONGER because the alien energies are focused more tightly(think about folding a sheet of paper in half a few times and then trying to tear it).

I do grant that it's possible smaller barriers are weaker barriers. Just not documented, or even really implied.

The gunship will most likey be very slow and not very maneuverable compared to any of the other ships of the fleet.

Not in space. In space, size is everything.

The gunship's less massive than other vessels, so it's got less velocity to shed at any given maneuver. If it has any maneuvering capabilities at all(which it does), then the gunship can dance relative to other vessels.

Footnote: This is also a justification for the transformation. The Macross can move an arm instead of using propellant to change its angle(a slow and expensive process acording to Newton's 3rd law of motion).

Edited December 23, 2004 by JB0

[mikeszekely]

Footnote: This is also a justification for the transformation. The Macross can move an arm instead of using propellant to change its angle(a slow and expensive process acording to Newton's 3rd law of motion).

After you've wasted all that time transforming, then sure, it's easier to move an arm than the entire ship. But you could have probably moved the entire ship and got off one or two shots for all the time it takes to transform the damn thing.

The only thing I can think of, and this is because it always seems like they don't start charging the gun until after transformation, is that perhaps the charged energies inside the gun are too hot, creates some sort of magnetic/electrical interference, or in some other way interferes with or damages the rest of the ship. That would necessitate the need to transform so that the gun could be held away from the rest of the ship.

[JB0]

Footnote: This is also a justification for the transformation. The Macross can move an arm instead of using propellant to change its angle(a slow and expensive process acording to Newton's 3rd law of motion).

After you've wasted all that time transforming, then sure, it's easier to move an arm than the entire ship. But you could have probably moved the entire ship and got off one or two shots for all the time it takes to transform the damn thing.

If you have advance warning, you can initiate transformation well before combat is initiated.

And in space you should be able to see the enemy WELL before they close to combat range(provided they don't fold in right on top of you). If they're several lightminutes out when you first see them, you can fire all you want, but you'll never hit them because they started moving around when they saw you to prevent leaving you with a nice clean shot(just like you did).

The only thing I can think of, and this is because it always seems like they don't start charging the gun until after transformation, is that perhaps the charged energies inside the gun are too hot, creates some sort of magnetic/electrical interference, or in some other way interferes with or damages the rest of the ship.  That would necessitate the need to transform so that the gun could be held away from the rest of the ship.

Hmmm... those things DO tend to have a pretty nasty backwash, don't they?

I've always sort of wondered what standards the gun arms on the original Macross were built to that the forces they channeled did no damage to them. Chalk it up to a really really good confinement field, I guess.

If that IS the reason that the original Macross didn't vaporize it's own gun when it fired, and humanity couldn't make as good a confinement field as the original zentradi/supervision army vessels used on their guns, that'd be a VERY good reason to get it as far from the ship as possible.

...

And yes, I'm throwing meaningless technobabble out here. I'm as bad as a Star Trek writer.

[Zentrandude]

The pinpoint barrier's funciton isn't really explained, but we know the barrier isn't powered solely by the ship's intenral power source. It operates with energy from a dimensional rift, at least in the original show.

you would need lots of power to open a rift or else it becomes that free energy theory then half of macross becomes senseless, Lots of todays items are determind by the size they can build the powersource. You wouldn't need reaction missiles because you can use missiles that uses the barrier overload to destroy targets, Gun pods would shoot them out instead of slugs or lasers since you wouldn't run out of ammo or power (basicly from the game xcom apocilipse) same with turrets on ships they can shoot them out since its easier to project out than is to precisly move it around the skin of a complex shape as a ship. Also thermonuclear engines would be outdated since you can use a pinpoint barrer to produce energy and feed that unlimited power to an ion engine.

The gunship's less massive than other vessels, so it's got less velocity to shed at any given maneuver. If it has any maneuvering capabilities at all(which it does), then the gunship can dance relative to other vessels.

the compendion lists the gunship to displace 2,500,000 tons while rest of the ships under the neo nup is under 100,000 tons; the gun ship would have to be a giant fast pack to perform that unless its using free energy powered thrusters.

edit: spelling

Edited December 23, 2004 by Zentrandude

[JB0]

The pinpoint barrier's funciton isn't really explained, but we know the barrier isn't powered solely by the ship's intenral power source. It operates with energy from a dimensional rift, at least in the original show.

you would need lots of power to open a rift or else it becomes that free energy theory then half of macross becomes senseless,

But once opened, it's stable.

And wasn't free energy from a parallel universe the principle behind what became the protodevlin?

Remember, the original pinpoint barrier was built around the fold generator's aftermath. The rift wasn't created intentionally, and mankind had no clue how to make one at the time. But the barrier served them through the rest of the series(or at least through to the end of Space War 1).

Sure it takes energy to focus the forces in the rift, and they can only be channeled for defensive purposes(currently), but the nature of the PPB system makes it hard to guess at it's overall functionality.

It's not even clear if the PPB overloads from total damage, or only immediate damage(IE will a million small shots crack it, or only a single large one?). The omnidirecitonal barrier is total damage, but the PPB and omnidirecitonal barrier are diffrent devices with radically diffrent behaviors. Among other things, PPB disks disperse briefly after taking a hit, while the ODB bubble doesn't. It's hard to project the behavior of one from the other(in the same way you wouldn't predict a laser's behavior from a flashlight).

You wouldn't need reaction missiles because you can use missiles that uses the barrier overload to destroy targets, 

PPBs don't go nuclear when they overload. They just cease to repel.

And the omnidirectional barrier overload was so powerful because it released all the energy it had absorbed during the bombardment when it failed,not just because it was a barrier that failed. If it absorbs one laser pointer beam before it overloads, the energy released will be a lot less.

Gun pods would shoot them out instead of slugs or lasers since you wouldn't run out of ammo or power (basicly from the game xcom apocilipse)

No evidence barrier tech can be focused into a beam.

And the PPB might have limited energy. We've seen it fail before, when struck with a single exceedingly hard blow.

same with turrets on ships they can shoot them out since its easier to project out than is to precisly move it around the skin of a complex shape as a ship. 

That's an odd assumption. Is it easier to shoot lightning bolts, or to electrify the skin of a vehicle?

For weapons purposes, confinement must be mastered before projection is dealt with. And it's possible that the PPB field naturally adheres to objects.

Also thermonuclear engines would be outdated since you can use a pinpoint barrer to produce energy and feed that unlimited power to an ion engine.

I don't think humanity is capable of harnessing it that way.

BTW, ion engines(at least as they exist now) are only really useful for long distance trips. Acceleration is slow, but you get a lot more of it than other propulsion technologies.

The gunship's less massive than other vessels, so it's got less velocity to shed at any given maneuver. If it has any maneuvering capabilities at all(which it does), then the gunship can dance relative to other vessels.

the compendion lists the gunship to displace 2,500,000 tons while rest of the ships under the neo nup is under 100,000 tons; the gun ship would have to be a giant fast pack to perform that unless its using free energy powered thrusters.

I was thinking other stuff was similar to the Battle 7. My mistake, clearly.

Though the Macross has a similarly large tonnage(18,000,000 standard operating, 22,000,000 standard operating (after 2012 overhaul)), aso do Zentradi vessels(8-9 digits).

[Roy Fokker]

Wow! Check out the replies on this therad!

Man, I'm glad I came upon this site!

For weapons purposes, confinement must be mastered before projection is dealt with. And it's possible that the PPB field naturally adheres to objects.

This is quite true. If anyone here has read up anything on defensive lasers as part of ballistic missile defence during the Cold War - you'll realise that while getting a high powered laser to vaporise an incoming warhead is important - the tricky part is focussing and mroe importantly - channeling (to concentrate the light into a beam instead of having it go all over the place).

Channeling makes it more powerful, as more light energy is concentrated onto the target. This is especially important when you have annoyances such as an atmospehere in your way

[Zentrandude]

The pinpoint barrier's funciton isn't really explained, but we know the barrier isn't powered solely by the ship's intenral power source. It operates with energy from a dimensional rift, at least in the original show.

you would need lots of power to open a rift or else it becomes that free energy theory then half of macross becomes senseless,

But once opened, it's stable.

And wasn't free energy from a parallel universe the principle behind what became the protodevlin?

I belive the protodevlin was solely powered by a type of spirita energy and used it for differnt purposes for attacking and folding. When they talk about the limitedless fountain of spiritcha at the end I think they was talking about their heart or soul. If they used free energy from a parallel universe why would they need spirit energy to contine.

Remember, the original pinpoint barrier was built around the fold generator's aftermath. The rift wasn't created intentionally, and mankind had no clue how to make one at the time. But the barrier served them through the rest of the series(or at least through to the end of Space War 1).

Sure it takes energy to focus the forces in the rift, and they can only be channeled for defensive purposes(currently), but the nature of the PPB system makes it hard to guess at it's overall functionality.

It's not even clear if the PPB overloads from total damage, or only immediate damage(IE will a million small shots crack it, or only a single large one?). The omnidirecitonal barrier is total damage, but the PPB and omnidirecitonal barrier are diffrent devices with radically diffrent behaviors. Among other things, PPB disks disperse briefly after taking a hit, while the ODB bubble doesn't. It's hard to project the behavior of one from the other(in the same way you wouldn't predict a laser's behavior from a flashlight).

the omni directional barrier was develope from the PPB system. The way I can see how they could make one from merging lots of the disk together like the PPB punch but to spread it out around a large object like a ship most likely had the bad side effect of overloading all at once instead of little bit (instead of dissapating)from a single disc can aborb rather than the "total damage" of a ODB system.

after all diamonds and coal are differnt things but still the same carbon.

You wouldn't need reaction missiles because you can use missiles that uses the barrier overload to destroy targets, 

PPBs don't go nuclear when they overload. They just cease to repel.

And the omnidirectional barrier overload was so powerful because it released all the energy it had absorbed during the bombardment when it failed,not just because it was a barrier that failed. If it absorbs one laser pointer beam before it overloads, the energy released will be a lot less.

lots of energy can be absorb from the kinetic force of peircing the hull and shelds. and for area effect to kill fighters they can abapt they way nuclear bombs work. instead of compressing the core material with explosives. the explosives gets absorb by a small omnidirectional bubble inside the missile. Plus macross in the tv series did the overload in the fortess at demand or from punching through just the hull of the mobile base.

Gun pods would shoot them out instead of slugs or lasers since you wouldn't run out of ammo or power (basicly from the game xcom apocilipse)

No evidence barrier tech can be focused into a beam.

And the PPB might have limited energy. We've seen it fail before, when struck with a single exceedingly hard blow.

who says it has to be a beam eh . If it can move around a large ship thats over 1kilometer long then it can easily go through a straight line thats not very long for a standard gun fight. Since it the PPB Doesn't make direct contact of the ship but float just above the hull (for the macross the space between looks like a good 30 feet) in space one of the genius scientist in macross could figure out a way not to move a small disk but adjust the distance between the the disk and hull or guns front end or what ever and silmulate a projectile.

same with turrets on ships they can shoot them out since its easier to project out than is to precisly move it around the skin of a complex shape as a ship. 

That's an odd assumption. Is it easier to shoot lightning bolts, or to electrify the skin of a vehicle?

For weapons purposes, confinement must be mastered before projection is dealt with. And it's possible that the PPB field naturally adheres to objects.

I belive your talking about making a reactor and propulsion. weapon purposes today and yesterday (mainly nuclear devices) is find a nice empty spot and let the fury loose on it.

lasers like the coil don't need confinement just point and shoot and analize how and why it perform.

You can confine a bullet with a barrel thats is miles and miles thick of steel but it won't improve its proformance of the projectile.

Unless you mean the natural confinement called matter as in the target your shooting at or the ground. Or you could be talking about the barrel which I really doubt since a person who would use that would be smoking like my avatar.

Confinement is very much a blanket term that covers everything that is matter.

I think you can be thinking about refinement, an monkey can confine a laser pointer with mirrors but do it badly and if he master it that the beam is the size of an single proton but it won't burn anything. But if you can refine a laser to emit enough power then it will burn.

btw shooting lightning bolts or electrify a skin of a vehicle are very differnt. offence and defence.

Also thermonuclear engines would be outdated since you can use a pinpoint barrer to produce energy and feed that unlimited power to an ion engine.

I don't think humanity is capable of harnessing it that way.

BTW, ion engines(at least as they exist now) are only really useful for long distance trips. Acceleration is slow, but you get a lot more of it than other propulsion technologies.

the only existing ion engine i know only produces thrust equal to a sheet of paper sitting on your hand but it was in a satalite with very limited power generation capasities with the solar panels. If you hook it up to a reactor and maybe redesign it nessarry to handle it it should produce much more thrust. enough to replace current ways to move around hard to say with the weight of a reactor.

[JB0]

The pinpoint barrier's funciton isn't really explained, but we know the barrier isn't powered solely by the ship's intenral power source. It operates with energy from a dimensional rift, at least in the original show.

you would need lots of power to open a rift or else it becomes that free energy theory then half of macross becomes senseless,

But once opened, it's stable.

And wasn't free energy from a parallel universe the principle behind what became the protodevlin?

I belive the protodevlin was solely powered by a type of spirita energy and used it for differnt purposes for attacking and folding. When they talk about the limitedless fountain of spiritcha at the end I think they was talking about their heart or soul. If they used free energy from a parallel universe why would they need spirit energy to contine.

Isn't the spiritia to feed the beings that infected them, not to actually support the bodies?

I never saw all of M7, so I'm going on what I read.

Particularly these entries in Macross Compendium's chronology...

PC 2865

Development on powerful biological weapons based on the Zentradi, "Evil Series," begins. [Note: "Evil" pronounced as "Eh-vil."] Evil is the abbreviation of the Protoculture term for "advanced (Zentradi) all-enivron biological weapon." Trial production takes place on a scientifically advanced planet (the first planet of the star system later known as Varauta), but because of unresolvable problems with the weapons' power exceeding the fighting capability requirements, trial production is halted.

PC 2868

On the [aforementioned] scientifically advanced planet, the existence of a sub-universe is confirmed. According to survey results, this sub-universe is abound with super high levels of extra-dimensional energy, and this energy is discovered to have the potential for application.

The trial production of super dimension energy gates which can supply energy from the sub-universe is begun, and genetically engineered biological super dimension organs are developed. These biological super dimension organs are extremely compact, and they are expected to supply enormous amounts of energy.

Because of power problems, the trial production begins implementing the technology from the terminated "Evil Series." No problems are uncovered in simulations.

The internal conflicts within the Stellar Republic revives the development of the "Evil Series."

THEN we get this...

PC 2871

On the [aforementioned] scientifically advanced planet, trial production of the "Evil Series" for final tests is begun. Seven Evil Series weapons of seven types including a highly mobile, humanoid "Sivil" for search-and-destroy functions and a super-scale, high-powered "Glavil" for fleet warfare are completed. The Evil Series tests are begun, but at the same time biological super dimension organs overload and extradimensional energy is released. The Evil Series' bodies are occupied by the spiritual energy life form from the sub-universe and thus creating, from the massive fighting capability of the Evil Series and the enormous potential of the spiritial energy, beings with extraordinary fighting ability and a coveting for life energy, "Spiritia." They covet Spiritia in order to continue existing as extra-dimensional beings in this universe. They begin invading the surrounding planets and systems using spaceships and weapons of people from the scientifically advanced planet that they brainwashed. (They later become known as the Supervision Army).

See what I mean?

Though it does demonstrate a danger in tapping dimensional rifts. You never know who's on the other side.

Remember, the original pinpoint barrier was built around the fold generator's aftermath. The rift wasn't created intentionally, and mankind had no clue how to make one at the time. But the barrier served them through the rest of the series(or at least through to the end of Space War 1).

Sure it takes energy to focus the forces in the rift, and they can only be channeled for defensive purposes(currently), but the nature of the PPB system makes it hard to guess at it's overall functionality.

It's not even clear if the PPB overloads from total damage, or only immediate damage(IE will a million small shots crack it, or only a single large one?). The omnidirecitonal barrier is total damage, but the PPB and omnidirecitonal barrier are diffrent devices with radically diffrent behaviors. Among other things, PPB disks disperse briefly after taking a hit, while the ODB bubble doesn't. It's hard to project the behavior of one from the other(in the same way you wouldn't predict a laser's behavior from a flashlight).

the omni directional barrier was develope from the PPB system. The way I can see how they could make one from merging lots of the disk together like the PPB punch but to spread it out around a large object like a ship most likely had the bad side effect of overloading all at once instead of little bit (instead of dissapating)from a single disc can aborb rather than the "total damage" of a ODB system.

after all diamonds and coal are differnt things but still the same carbon.

That makes a sort of sense.

And the carbon example is what I was talking about when I said they were radically diffrent. Same base, diffrent end result.

You wouldn't need reaction missiles because you can use missiles that uses the barrier overload to destroy targets, 

PPBs don't go nuclear when they overload. They just cease to repel.

And the omnidirectional barrier overload was so powerful because it released all the energy it had absorbed during the bombardment when it failed,not just because it was a barrier that failed. If it absorbs one laser pointer beam before it overloads, the energy released will be a lot less.

lots of energy can be absorb from the kinetic force of peircing the hull and shelds.

Not as much as an extended bombardment. For the yield you'll be getting, explosives are cheaper.

and for area effect to kill fighters they can abapt they way nuclear bombs work.  instead of compressing the core material with explosives. the explosives gets absorb by a small omnidirectional bubble inside the missile. 

1-way absorbancy. You can go out, but not in. At least, that's how I thought it worked

Plus macross in the tv series did the overload in the fortess at demand or from punching through just the hull of the mobile base.

No, they unloaded thousannds of nuclear weapons inside a confined space, rupturing the biggest fusion reactor you can think of, and usd the barrier to protect them from the inevitable explosion(and still barely lived).

Gun pods would shoot them out instead of slugs or lasers since you wouldn't run out of ammo or power (basicly from the game xcom apocilipse)

No evidence barrier tech can be focused into a beam.

And the PPB might have limited energy. We've seen it fail before, when struck with a single exceedingly hard blow.

who says it has to be a beam eh . If it can move around a large ship thats over 1kilometer long then it can easily go through a straight line thats not very long for a standard gun fight. Since it the PPB Doesn't make direct contact of the ship but float just above the hull (for the macross the space between looks like a good 30 feet) in space one of the genius scientist in macross could figure out a way not to move a small disk but adjust the distance between the the disk and hull or guns front end or what ever and silmulate a projectile.

Unless there's some sort of field effect that dictates the hover distance, not a intentional feature of the barrier. Like a magnetic field or something.

same with turrets on ships they can shoot them out since its easier to project out than is to precisly move it around the skin of a complex shape as a ship. 

That's an odd assumption. Is it easier to shoot lightning bolts, or to electrify the skin of a vehicle?

For weapons purposes, confinement must be mastered before projection is dealt with. And it's possible that the PPB field naturally adheres to objects.

I belive your talking about making a reactor and propulsion. weapon purposes today and yesterday (mainly nuclear devices) is find a nice empty spot and let the fury loose on it.

Not really. I'm talking about a directed energy weapon.

lasers like the coil don't need confinement just point and shoot and analize how and why it perform.

Actually, lasers only work BECAUSE we know how to confine light.

Example: the classic ruby rod laser. You take a rod of ruby. Put a mirror on one end, a half-mirronr on the other, wrap a flash bulb around it.

Fire the bulb. This excites the ruby molecules. They emit a specific wavelength of light when they cool down. We lose a lot out the sides, but everything travelling along the rod's axis gets reflected back and forth, untill we have enough photons bouncing around to pass through the half-mirrored end as a beam of red light.

You can confine a bullet with a barrel thats is miles and miles thick of steel but it won't improve its proformance of the projectile.

A longer barrel WILL increase the perfomrance, actually.

But that's beside the point. The bulelt only moves because of the confined, directed explosion behind it. If we couldn't confine a powder detonation, a gun would work just like a grenade.

Unless you mean the natural confinement called matter as in the target your shooting at  or the ground.  Or you could be talking about the barrel which I really doubt since a person who would use that would be smoking like my avatar. 

Confinement is very much a blanket term that covers everything that is matter.

I mean the ability to focus the energies being used instead of merely throwing them out there.

A flashlight bulb isn't very bright until you add the reflector, for example.

I think you can be thinking about refinement, an monkey can confine a laser pointer with mirrors but do it badly and if he master it that the beam is the size of an single proton but it won't burn anything.  But if you can refine a laser to emit enough power then it will burn.

But a human uses mirrors to make the beam in the first place.

btw shooting lightning bolts or electrify a skin of a vehicle are very differnt.  offence and defence.

But both are an application of electricity. It's the same energy in both.

Just like a barrier disk and a flying green disk o' death would be the same energy.

Also thermonuclear engines would be outdated since you can use a pinpoint barrer to produce energy and feed that unlimited power to an ion engine.

I don't think humanity is capable of harnessing it that way.

BTW, ion engines(at least as they exist now) are only really useful for long distance trips. Acceleration is slow, but you get a lot more of it than other propulsion technologies.

the only existing ion engine i know only produces thrust equal to a sheet of paper sitting on your hand but it was in a satalite with very limited power generation capasities with the solar panels. If you hook it up to a reactor and maybe redesign it nessarry to handle it it should produce much more thrust. enough to replace current ways to move around hard to say with the weight of a reactor.

The big problem is that you're throwing individual atoms around.

3rd law of motion is what we use to move things, and individual atoms just don't have the same "oomph" as giant clouds of pressurized gases. But you cna throw them for a lot longer.

We've made probes with far more powerful thrusters. Heck, even Deep Space 1 had them for maneuvering purposes(BTW, DS1 isn't a satellite, as it orbits nothing). But they run out of fuel faster than the ion drive will(and yes, teh ion drive WILL run outof fuel. Every ion leaving it was stripped from a "fuel block").

Edited December 29, 2004 by JB0

[Zentrandude]

The pinpoint barrier's funciton isn't really explained, but we know the barrier isn't powered solely by the ship's intenral power source. It operates with energy from a dimensional rift, at least in the original show.

you would need lots of power to open a rift or else it becomes that free energy theory then half of macross becomes senseless,

But once opened, it's stable.

And wasn't free energy from a parallel universe the principle behind what became the protodevlin?

I belive the protodevlin was solely powered by a type of spirita energy and used it for differnt purposes for attacking and folding. When they talk about the limitedless fountain of spiritcha at the end I think they was talking about their heart or soul. If they used free energy from a parallel universe why would they need spirit energy to contine.

Isn't the spiritia to feed the beings that infected them, not to actually support the bodies?

I never saw all of M7, so I'm going on what I read.

Particularly these entries in Macross Compendium's chronology...

PC 2865

Development on powerful biological weapons based on the Zentradi, "Evil Series," begins. [Note: "Evil" pronounced as "Eh-vil."] Evil is the abbreviation of the Protoculture term for "advanced (Zentradi) all-enivron biological weapon." Trial production takes place on a scientifically advanced planet (the first planet of the star system later known as Varauta), but because of unresolvable problems with the weapons' power exceeding the fighting capability requirements, trial production is halted.

PC 2868

On the [aforementioned] scientifically advanced planet, the existence of a sub-universe is confirmed. According to survey results, this sub-universe is abound with super high levels of extra-dimensional energy, and this energy is discovered to have the potential for application.

The trial production of super dimension energy gates which can supply energy from the sub-universe is begun, and genetically engineered biological super dimension organs are developed. These biological super dimension organs are extremely compact, and they are expected to supply enormous amounts of energy.

Because of power problems, the trial production begins implementing the technology from the terminated "Evil Series." No problems are uncovered in simulations.

The internal conflicts within the Stellar Republic revives the development of the "Evil Series."

THEN we get this...

PC 2871

On the [aforementioned] scientifically advanced planet, trial production of the "Evil Series" for final tests is begun. Seven Evil Series weapons of seven types including a highly mobile, humanoid "Sivil" for search-and-destroy functions and a super-scale, high-powered "Glavil" for fleet warfare are completed. The Evil Series tests are begun, but at the same time biological super dimension organs overload and extradimensional energy is released. The Evil Series' bodies are occupied by the spiritual energy life form from the sub-universe and thus creating, from the massive fighting capability of the Evil Series and the enormous potential of the spiritial energy, beings with extraordinary fighting ability and a coveting for life energy, "Spiritia." They covet Spiritia in order to continue existing as extra-dimensional beings in this universe. They begin invading the surrounding planets and systems using spaceships and weapons of people from the scientifically advanced planet that they brainwashed. (They later become known as the Supervision Army).

See what I mean?

Though it does demonstrate a danger in tapping dimensional rifts. You never know who's on the other side.

Ill finish the others after i get enough sleep and its starting to get hard to track with the quote tags.

anyways

extra-dimensional in this universe/dimension according to string theory not in the parallel dimension well they have there own extra-dimension or might be connected. if you can prove this the string theorist will love you and steven hawkins will worship you.

the extra-dimension can be potentional in very high energy output.

might be rambling abit but anyways in mac 7 when they escape after operation star gazer (ep 45) they used the spiritca beam on the flying monkey that says beauty of this and that and he gets drained of most of the spirit that he looks old and weak and unable to attack. then when the basara wakes up the macross 5 citizens they drain their spirita to recharge the flying monkey.

if they was connected perminatly to the rift they wouldn't be drained and they wouldn't need to make a spiritca farm.

[JB0]

Ill finish the others after i get enough sleep and its starting to get hard to track with the quote tags.

anyways

extra-dimensional in this universe/dimension according to string theory not in the parallel dimension well they have there own extra-dimension or might be connected. if you can prove this the string theorist will love you and steven hawkins will worship you.

But in Macross it comes from a diffrent universe.

the extra-dimension can be potentional in very high energy output.

might be rambling abit but anyways in mac 7 when they escape after operation star gazer (ep 45) they used the spiritca beam on the flying monkey that says beauty of this and that and he gets drained of most of the spirit that he looks old and weak and unable to attack. then when the basara wakes up the macross 5 citizens they drain their spirita to recharge the flying monkey.

if they was connected perminatly to the rift they wouldn't be drained and they wouldn't need to make a spiritca farm.

But they're 2 diffrent things.

The body powers itself from the dimensional rift, but the creature controlling it(the mind, essentially) maintains itself in this universe by consuming spiritia from the beings present here. They weren't DESIGNED to eat souls(exageration) but the body's new inhabitant(essentially a very complex parasite) needs to if it wants to stay here.

I can't explain the physical appearance.

[Zentrandude]

you need to watch mac 7. after a couple times watching it you start to see strange possiblities to figure it out. The organic parts maybe be made by rifts but most of them definatly need a type spiritca energy to function. Plus think a rift will kill gamlin when the flying mokey possed him. Also lots of the attacks while demonic as in the pentigrams seems to suggest psion warfare which explains why they need to absorb it from others.

now time to sleep.

edit:

Sivil appears to use all psionic attacks and proly uses it to move around. Shes very fast for someone who doesn't folds around like those 2 that laughs but even then those 2 laughing that folds around used the spirit energy to grow larger. think same with the one that shoots out lots of those ghost things. The one that died to protect sivil died cuz he used up all his spiritca to summon his body and make the blackhole. else the entity would die leaving the body intact instead of crumbling.

Edited December 30, 2004 by Zentrandude

[Zentrandude]

Not as much as an extended bombardment. For the yield you'll be getting, explosives are cheaper.

Not realy the tv series shows how powerfull overloads are. Yah sure it may be cheap but it won't be as effective in complete coverage.

1-way absorbancy. You can go out, but not in. At least, that's how I thought it worked

It will go out when it overloads and the explosives are shape charged that it all the energy goes to the bubble simular to nuclear bombs that have explosives around the core material. just explosives around the bubble.

No, they unloaded thousannds of nuclear weapons inside a confined space, rupturing the biggest fusion reactor you can think of, and usd the barrier to protect them from the inevitable explosion(and still barely lived).

think your talking about the movie but i remember of the tv series just punching through the fortress. in the movie they used the missiles to weaken the walls so they can break in and take out the defenders.

Unless there's some sort of field effect that dictates the hover distance, not a intentional feature of the barrier. Like a magnetic field or something.

Fields can be controlled, else it wouldn't be able to move around the ship. while in the tv series the PPB conform to the hull to the major shape but the distance varied with the smaller details of the hull like small towers that extend out. small i mean small to the ship like 40 or 50 feet out.

Not really. I'm talking about a directed energy weapon.

shame since confinement usualy defined in reactors, by defination its the same as containment. you lose confinement when the energy moves out in way.

Actually, lasers only work BECAUSE we know how to confine light.

Example: the classic ruby rod laser.  You take a rod of ruby. Put a mirror on one end, a half-mirronr on the other, wrap a flash bulb around it.

Fire the bulb. This excites the ruby molecules. They emit a specific wavelength of light when they cool down. We lose a lot out the sides, but everything travelling along the rod's axis gets reflected back and forth, untill we have enough photons bouncing around to pass through the half-mirrored end as a beam of red light.

the rod can be confined but anything that leaves isn't confine also we use laser diodes now and i don't think they work that way now.

A longer barrel WILL increase the perfomrance, actually.

But that's beside the point. The bulelt only moves because of the confined, directed explosion behind it.  If we couldn't confine a powder detonation, a gun would work just like a grenade.

Longer barrel isnt confine it can be defined as focus and guiding more guiding than focus unless its a shotgun which has the chokes that focus the pellets.

Longer barrel will increase the accuracy but the friction of the rifling will slow down the bullet unless you use longer burning powder even then the speed usualy won't increase much anyway if you ratio it out. (gets complicated at the point) Its one of the weird things you think about it when you reload your own ammunition for years. if you confine it then it becomes a grenade. confine means imprision it so the bullet to keep confinement should not be able to move, somehow labor is in meaning too but think they mean the "closing" part or the end.

I mean the ability to focus the energies being used instead of merely throwing them out there. A flashlight bulb isn't very bright until you add the reflector, for example.

focus and confinedment are diffent but silmar things. focus is point of space while confinedment is more 3d and more restrictive. the reflector would have to completely cover the lightbulb to be confinement.

But a human uses mirrors to make the beam in the first place.

humans uses mirrors to focus the beam the elements makes the light.

But both are an application of electricity. It's the same energy in both.

Just like a barrier disk and a flying green disk o' death would be the same energy.

everything is energy but it works in simlar but differnt ways. refer to PPB to ODB you said.

I don't think humanity is capable of harnessing it that way.

humanity is capable of anything given time and resouces, in macross universe they could easily do so if they wanted since pretty much master it in a short time.

BTW, ion engines(at least as they exist now) are only really useful for long distance trips. Acceleration is slow, but you get a lot more of it than other propulsion technologies.

I know the newtonian principle

the only existing ion engine i know only produces thrust equal to a sheet of paper sitting on your hand but it was in a satalite with very limited power generation capasities with the solar panels.  If you hook it up to a reactor and maybe redesign it nessarry to handle it it should produce much more thrust.  enough to replace current ways to move around hard to say with the weight of a reactor.

The big problem is that you're throwing individual atoms around.

3rd law of motion is what we use to move things, and individual atoms just don't have the same "oomph" as giant clouds of pressurized gases. But you cna throw them for a lot longer.

We've made probes with far more powerful thrusters. Heck, even Deep Space 1 had them for maneuvering purposes(BTW, DS1 isn't a satellite, as it orbits nothing). But they run out of fuel faster than the ion drive will(and yes, teh ion drive WILL run outof fuel. Every ion leaving it was stripped from a "fuel block").

Im not sure why your explaining what I said but in time ion engines if more funding to the devolopment would shoot out more than a single atom.

easily from the picture they can shoot more out if they want to. very simlar to a TV eh. Also you still need energy to push the atoms out. stronger fields created with more power should shoot them out faster.

Also I define any unmanned small probes and such as satellites in a larger sence anything is orbiting something just don't relize it. you travel a line that doesn't orbit the solar system, your orbiting he galaxy. bit stretch but it does work.

Think I got it all just woke up ill add more when i get to it again.

[broadshore]

Okay... presonally I didn't like the last Episode of MZ. Seems it was like they ran out of and Idea for a grand finally.

What MZ fells like to me. It fills up the lost gap of ASS-01 Crashing. Now the Alien fighter that was in the ocean. ahh... APHOS<sp> What was that all about? To me it didn't fit into the complete storyline of Macross itself.

Also, the English subtitling sucked balls.

[Zentrandude]

know how you feel about mac0, to me it felt like it was the roswel of macross line.

UNspacy denies all accounts of naked chicks with the ability of making rocks float and suicidial super beings with fold generators inside.

What would really kick ass if they show the oberth that global commanded and kick anti UN inside the ship they hijack in a game of cat of mouse. coarse it might be old like a sci-fi version of the russle crow movie master and commander.

[Roy Fokker]

I might largely agree with boradshore.

It was building up quite well but frankly the ending was a BIG let-down.

[Ido]

Now the Alien fighter that was in the ocean. ahh... APHOS<sp> What was that all about? To me it didn't fit into the complete storyline of Macross itself.

In DYRL there was an entire alien city in the ocean.

[JB0]

Not as much as an extended bombardment. For the yield you'll be getting, explosives are cheaper.

Not realy the tv series shows how powerfull overloads are. Yah sure it may be cheap but it won't be as effective in complete coverage.

But that was a barrier saturated with an extended bombardment. It absorbed a LOT more firepower than a single missile can carry.

No, they unloaded thousannds of nuclear weapons inside a confined space, rupturing the biggest fusion reactor you can think of, and usd the barrier to protect them from the inevitable explosion(and still barely lived).

think your talking about the movie but i remember of the tv series just punching through the fortress. in the movie they used the missiles to weaken the walls so they can break in and take out the defenders.

Right. Rammed it, using the PPB(an upgraded 4-disk version, no less) to protect the leading edges, fired thousands of nuclear warheads(the stardust cloud expanding around the Macross after it hits clear space), then activated the omnidirectional barrier to give them a chance of survival(whatever it absorbs, while a drop in the bucket, DOESN'T hit the armor plating, and the overload deflects more when it blasts out against the incoming wall of ... stuff).

It wasn't the barrier that took the flagship out, it was those missiles aimed at everything of interest in the ship.

Unless there's some sort of field effect that dictates the hover distance, not a intentional feature of the barrier. Like a magnetic field or something.

Fields can be controlled, else it wouldn't be able to move around the ship. while in the tv series the PPB conform to the hull to the major shape but the distance varied with the smaller details of the hull like small towers that extend out. small i mean small to the ship like 40 or 50 feet out.

I understand what you're saying.

Think of a PPB disk as a hovercraft. Free-moving across a surface, but with no real altitude control.

It's a hypothetical situation, but it COULD explain why not use the PPB as a ranged weapon.

IF I understand what you're saying, the PPB disks are higher above the hull when they go across an antenna or something. That's logical to me if it's a field effect, as they're maintaining distance from whatever's under them, not from the hull.

Not really. I'm talking about a directed energy weapon.

shame since confinement usualy defined in reactors, by defination its the same as containment. you lose confinement when the energy moves out in way.

Confinement can be used many ways. I'm thinking in terms of keeping your energy beam cohesive.

You don't HAVE to have omnidirectional confinement. A beam only needs a cylinder.

Actually, lasers only work BECAUSE we know how to confine light.

Example: the classic ruby rod laser.  You take a rod of ruby. Put a mirror on one end, a half-mirronr on the other, wrap a flash bulb around it.

Fire the bulb. This excites the ruby molecules. They emit a specific wavelength of light when they cool down. We lose a lot out the sides, but everything travelling along the rod's axis gets reflected back and forth, untill we have enough photons bouncing around to pass through the half-mirrored end as a beam of red light.

the rod can be confined but anything that leaves isn't confine also we use laser diodes now and i don't think they work that way now.

The beam can only be generated THROUGH photon confinement. Strip the mirrors away and you just get a flash of red light.

And diodes are only used for some things. There's a lot of diffrent laser technolgies, and they all work diffrently, with diffrent strengths and weaknesses. A diode laser is great for size and power consumption. But it sucks for high-power applications.

A longer barrel WILL increase the perfomrance, actually.

But that's beside the point. The bulelt only moves because of the confined, directed explosion behind it.  If we couldn't confine a powder detonation, a gun would work just like a grenade.

Longer barrel isnt confine it can be defined as focus and guiding more guiding than focus unless its a shotgun which has the chokes that focus the pellets.

It also traps the gasses longer.

Longer barrel will increase the accuracy but the friction of the rifling will slow down the bullet unless you use longer burning powder even then the speed usualy won't increase much anyway if you ratio it out. (gets complicated at the point) Its one of the weird things you think about it when you reload your own ammunition for years. 

Okay, so I was working with a hypothetical frictionless weapon. Stupid, I know.

Of course, even in a hypothetical frictionless weapon, eventually the barrel gets too long, and your hot gasses have less pressure than the outside air. And then the bullet is being hindered by the gasses trapped behind it.

if you confine it then it becomes a grenade. confine means imprision it so the bullet to keep confinement should not be able to move, somehow labor is in meaning too but think they mean the "closing" part or the end.

Confinement doesn't always mean in all directions. Or permanent.

And the gasses ARE confined in all directions untill the bullet leaves the barrel.

From Merriam-Webster...

Main Entry: con·fine

...

2 : to keep within limits <will confine my remarks to one subject>

That's the definition I'm using. In the case of my beam weapon, we're keeping it within limits in the Y and Z axes, and letting it move freely along the X axis of the beam. The PPB clearly has confinement, with the ability to change the limits in 2 axes(essentially). It's not clear if hover distance is variable or fixed.

I mean the ability to focus the energies being used instead of merely throwing them out there. A flashlight bulb isn't very bright until you add the reflector, for example.

focus and confinedment are diffent but silmar things. focus is point of space while confinedment is more 3d and more restrictive. the reflector would have to completely cover the lightbulb to be confinement.

No. Confinement doesn't awlays mean locking it into a certain point.

See above definition.

The mirror in a flashlight keeps the beam within the limits needed for a flashlight to work as ... well, as a flashlight. It confines the light to a beam.

But a human uses mirrors to make the beam in the first place.

humans uses mirrors to focus the beam the elements makes the light.

QUIT PICKING ON MY WORD USAGE!

ESPECIALLY WHEN IT'S VALID!

But both are an application of electricity. It's the same energy in both.

Just like a barrier disk and a flying green disk o' death would be the same energy.

everything is energy but it works in simlar but differnt ways. refer to PPB to ODB you said.

Right.

But keeping it to the same TYPE of energy.

I don't think humanity is capable of harnessing it that way.

humanity is capable of anything given time and resouces, in macross universe they could easily do so if they wanted since pretty much master it in a short time.

They haven't MASTERED anything.

And not EVERYTHING is possible.

BTW, ion engines(at least as they exist now) are only really useful for long distance trips. Acceleration is slow, but you get a lot more of it than other propulsion technologies.

I know the newtonian principle

I'm not explaining newton's laws, just that ion drives as we know them generate pretty low thrust.

the only existing ion engine i know only produces thrust equal to a sheet of paper sitting on your hand but it was in a satalite with very limited power generation capasities with the solar panels.  If you hook it up to a reactor and maybe redesign it nessarry to handle it it should produce much more thrust.  enough to replace current ways to move around hard to say with the weight of a reactor.

The big problem is that you're throwing individual atoms around.

3rd law of motion is what we use to move things, and individual atoms just don't have the same "oomph" as giant clouds of pressurized gases. But you cna throw them for a lot longer.

We've made probes with far more powerful thrusters. Heck, even Deep Space 1 had them for maneuvering purposes(BTW, DS1 isn't a satellite, as it orbits nothing). But they run out of fuel faster than the ion drive will(and yes, teh ion drive WILL run outof fuel. Every ion leaving it was stripped from a "fuel block").

Im not sure why your explaining what I said but in time ion engines if more funding to the devolopment would shoot out more than a single atom.

easily from the picture they can shoot more out if they want to. very simlar to a TV eh. Also you still need energy to push the atoms out. stronger fields created with more power should shoot them out faster.

DS1's drive DOES spit more than one atom at a time.

And there's a serious tradeoff here. Is the extra electricity needed really worth it?

You can stuff more propellant in your ship isntad of enlarging the generator, and as we see things now, that's far more efficient for fast acceleration.

Also I define any unmanned small probes and such as satellites in a larger sence anything is orbiting something just don't relize it. you travel a line that doesn't orbit the solar system, your orbiting he galaxy. bit stretch but it does work.

Big stretch...

Edited January 1, 2005 by JB0