why transforming valks in macross zero?

[goldenboy_forever]

Okay if this question has been asked please direct me to the answer or if this should be in the newbie question section mods please move this post. Anyways

Heres a question thats just hit me why would they make a transforming air plane in macross zero when even the sdf-1 hasn't hit the earth yet or has it? Didn't they make valks to fight over size aliens know as the zentradi and why would they need destroids and monsters in macross zero? I mean you don't need over size mech to destroy humans, and the alien monster in macross zero wasn't even a zentradi I think? In macross Roys tells hikaru that the valks main purpose is to fight over size aliens to level the fighting plane. Well just wondered what you guy think? I hope this doesn't sound like a complaint becasue I've been a macross fan for long long long time just wonder if I miss out on some vital info on this.

1.)Sdf-1 equalsl transforming valk

2.)no sdf-1 in macross zero

3.)so why the transforming valks?

From Rich

Let me know what you guys think?????

[mikeszekely]

Because the Macross HAD crashed into earth by the time of Macross Zero. The Macross crashed in 1999, and Macross Zero is supposed to take place around 2007. SDF Macross takes place in 2009. The VF-0 transforms because it's developed alongside the VF-1 as an interim fighter with conventional jet engines until the kinks are worked out of the VF-1's thermonuclear engines.

[goldenboy_forever]

AHHHH! I C I C

thanks for the swift answer

From rich

[azrael]

*cough*

http://www.anime.net/macross/story/chronol...1999/index.html

*/cough*

[Beltane70]

Actually, Macross Zero takes place in September of 2008, about 5 months before SDF Macross takes place.

[Ido]

Okay if this question has been asked please direct me to the answer or if this should be in the newbie question section mods please move this post. Anyways

Heres a question thats just hit me why would they make a transforming air plane in macross zero when even the sdf-1 hasn't hit the earth yet or has it? Didn't they make valks to fight over size aliens know as the zentradi and why would they need destroids and monsters in macross zero? I mean you don't need over size mech to destroy humans, and the alien monster in macross zero wasn't even a zentradi I think? In macross Roys tells hikaru that the valks main purpose is to fight over size aliens to level the fighting plane. Well just wondered what you guy think? I hope this doesn't sound like a complaint becasue I've been a macross fan for long long long time just wonder if I miss out on some vital info on this.

1.)Sdf-1 equalsl transforming valk

2.)no sdf-1 in macross zero

3.)so why the transforming valks?

From Rich

Let me know what you guys think?????

Maybe you got confused by the robotech storyline in wich, the war was before the ASS-1 crash, in Macross zero there is the overtechnology so we can safely presume that they examined the ship and know that the aliens are giants. So we have the VF/SV.

[KingNor]

so the vf0 isn't a prototype, it's a seperate fighter specificly designed to fill the gap before the full fledged vf1's come out?

[wolfx]

so the vf0 isn't a prototype, it's a seperate fighter specificly designed to fill the gap before the full fledged vf1's come out?

Yes.

[Prime]

the sdf-1 hasn't hit the earth yet or has it? 

It is the first thing that happens in the very first episode.

[Aegis!]

you also have to take into account that even though the Zentradi had not yet appeared the competition between the Anti-UN and the UN had already begun so if any of them had valkyries the other couldn´t just stay back and use conventional armament.

that´s why there are valks in M0 even though SW1 had not yet begun.

[goldenboy_forever]

It is the first thing that happens in the very first episode

Woops haha sorry your right I just checked out the first episode again my bad.

mods if you can erase this thread please

From Rich

[ewilen]

so the vf0 isn't a prototype, it's a seperate fighter specificly designed to fill the gap before the full fledged vf1's come out?

Yes.

No.

It's a test plane which was pressed into operation to fill the gap before the VF-1's came out.

http://macross.anime.net/mecha/united_nati.../vf0/index.html

See also... http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?...ndpost&p=217867

Edited December 17, 2004 by ewilen

[Zentrandude]

so the vf0 isn't a prototype, it's a seperate fighter specificly designed to fill the gap before the full fledged vf1's come out?

Yes.

No.

It's a test plane which was pressed into operation to fill the gap before the VF-1's came out.

http://macross.anime.net/mecha/united_nati.../vf0/index.html

See also... http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?...ndpost&p=217867

No. The producers wanted a new valk design and is sick of the fanboys (people like me) of asking for the vf-1 .

Same with the new battle 7 looking aircraft carrier. producers wanted something new and is sick of fanboys (people like me) of asking for macross to be in.

[ewilen]

Yes, of course that's the commercial/artistic reason. Same for the real reason why there are transforming Valks in MZero: without transforming Valks, a lot of the audience interest would disappear.

But in-story, the preponderance of the evidence (including comments by Kawamori himself) is that the VF-0 is a testbed for the VF-1 program, not a testbed for post-VF-1 fighters, or a parallel production fighter, or a fighter that was specially designed to fill the gap when the VF-1 wasn't ready.

This is my reconstruction of the evidence from all those threads. In order to test various technologies and concepts for a thermonuclear-reaction-powered variable fighter, the UN produced a conventionally-powered testbed. (Chief among the new technologies was the battroid transformation, but exo-atmospheric operation and FASTpacks were also developed on the testbed.) It's possible that more than a few were produced in order to test new operational and tactical concepts for variable fighters. However, the aircraft was never intended for mass production. Only when the engines for the VF-1 were delayed, and the UN discovered the existence of the SV-51, was the testbed put into limited production, made operational, and dubbed the VF-0.

It's a bit like what would have happened if the X-29, X-31, or F-15 ACTIVE had been quickly pressed into service.

[azrael]

(Chief among the new technologies was the battroid transformation, but exo-atmospheric operation and FASTpacks were also developed on the testbed.)

I hope you're referring to just those FAST packs (i.e. legs) and not the field modifcation.

It's possible that more than a few were produced in order to test new operational and tactical concepts for variable fighters.

They already produced one in the VF-0 lineup....the VF-0D.

[JB0]

...

In order to test various technologies and concepts for a thermonuclear-reaction-powered variable fighter, the UN produced a conventionally-powered testbed. (Chief among the new technologies was ... but exo-atmospheric operation ... also developed on the testbed.)

Which reall ymakes no sense, given a jet engine not only requires air, but sucks it like ... ummm... something that sucks REALLY hard.

[ewilen]

Yes, I only mean the leg FASTpacks; the field mod shown in the last episode used the leg FAST packs designed for the VF-0 as part of the VF-1 test program, coupled with a Ghost used ad-hoc as a booster. The notes on the field modification indicate that other FAST pack parts were planned for the VF-0 but I don't recall if there's an indication as to whether they were completed. (I'd guess not, since the VF-1 became available shortly after the Mayan incident; at that point it would make sense IMO to just develop the Super FAST pack "Booby Duck" configuration using a few VF-1's.)

Not clear, really, where the VF-0D fits in. It's possible it was only developed as part of the crash program to convert the testbed into an operational type. Or it could be that one of the original test designs was the basis of the 0D.

[azrael]

Yes, I only mean the leg FASTpacks;

Just checking......

Not clear, really, where the VF-0D fits in. It's possible it was only developed as part of the crash program to convert the testbed into an operational type. Or it could be that one of the original test designs was the basis of the 0D.

I would say "convert the testbed into more of an operational type". Its design is something more for manueverablity; something to get more out of the VF-0B than just a VF-0A w/ 2 seats. A VF-0B is nice and all being a 2-seater model but it's still a 0A, with 2 seats. Given more time, they probably would have tested what the 0D was designed for, electronic warfare. This would lead to the VEFR-1 and VE-1 mission role.

[ewilen]

...

In order to test various technologies and concepts for a thermonuclear-reaction-powered variable fighter, the UN produced a conventionally-powered testbed. (Chief among the new technologies was ...  but exo-atmospheric operation ... also developed on the testbed.)

Which reall ymakes no sense, given a jet engine not only requires air, but sucks it like ... ummm... something that sucks REALLY hard.

The exoatmospheric testing could have just entailed test-building the fuselage with the characteristics needed to operate in a vacuum. It may also have meant physically taking a VF-0 into space and seeing if it can operate at least minimally in Gerwalk mode (which appears to use rockets in the backpack).

[JB0]

...

In order to test various technologies and concepts for a thermonuclear-reaction-powered variable fighter, the UN produced a conventionally-powered testbed. (Chief among the new technologies was ...  but exo-atmospheric operation ... also developed on the testbed.)

Which reall ymakes no sense, given a jet engine not only requires air, but sucks it like ... ummm... something that sucks REALLY hard.

The exoatmospheric testing could have just entailed test-building the fuselage with the characteristics needed to operate in a vacuum. It may also have meant physically taking a VF-0 into space and seeing if it can operate at least minimally in Gerwalk mode (which appears to use rockets in the backpack).

Mmmm...

Along the same lines, they may have also just been making sure that their wing design was up to the stresses the verniers were gonna be putting on it.

[macplus]

Same with the new battle 7 looking aircraft carrier. producers wanted something new and is sick of fanboys (people like me) of asking for macross to be in.

The Battle 7 wasn't something new, it was a complete aberration and an insult to the Macross itself, good thing it was destroyed, too bad they were building another one..bleh..

[Radd]

Same with the new battle 7 looking aircraft carrier. producers wanted something new and is sick of fanboys (people like me) of asking for macross to be in.

Mmm, Battle 7. Absolutely love that ship. I'd love to see it get the Yamato treatment. I'd settle for the Battle 13, since it's more likely Yamato could get the rights to that.

[JB0]

Same with the new battle 7 looking aircraft carrier. producers wanted something new and is sick of fanboys (people like me) of asking for macross to be in.

The Battle 7 wasn't something new, it was a complete aberration and an insult to the Macross itself, good thing it was destroyed, too bad they were building another one..bleh..

I have 2 words for you. Daedalus Attack.

You are defending a boxing battleship, you really don't have a lot of room here.

[Zentrandude]

Same with the new battle 7 looking aircraft carrier. producers wanted something new and is sick of fanboys (people like me) of asking for macross to be in.

The Battle 7 wasn't something new, it was a complete aberration and an insult to the Macross itself, good thing it was destroyed, too bad they were building another one..bleh..

refering to the asuka II

[macplus]

Same with the new battle 7 looking aircraft carrier. producers wanted something new and is sick of fanboys (people like me) of asking for macross to be in.

The Battle 7 wasn't something new, it was a complete aberration and an insult to the Macross itself, good thing it was destroyed, too bad they were building another one..bleh..

refering to the asuka II

sorry! silly me! anyway don't say that the asuka looks like that turd of the Battle 7! However Battle 7 fits pretty good the rest of the series.. a total POS

[Zentrandude]

Same with the new battle 7 looking aircraft carrier. producers wanted something new and is sick of fanboys (people like me) of asking for macross to be in.

The Battle 7 wasn't something new, it was a complete aberration and an insult to the Macross itself, good thing it was destroyed, too bad they were building another one..bleh..

refering to the asuka II

sorry! silly me! anyway don't say that the asuka looks like that turd of the Battle 7! However Battle 7 fits pretty good the rest of the series.. a total POS

agree with it alittle bit after making a 3d model based (on fan art section) on battle 7 you relized it has one big flaw that was close to being exploited but not. But thats for another thread.

[macplus]

Same with the new battle 7 looking aircraft carrier. producers wanted something new and is sick of fanboys (people like me) of asking for macross to be in.

The Battle 7 wasn't something new, it was a complete aberration and an insult to the Macross itself, good thing it was destroyed, too bad they were building another one..bleh..

I have 2 words for you. Daedalus Attack.

You are defending a boxing battleship, you really don't have a lot of room here.

On the Daedalus attack, the ship was used to put a big hole on the enemy ship, then the forward hatch would open to reveal a bunch of destroids that just blasted the interior of the ship with their ammo, now on the battle 7 we get only a couple of very stupid hands, for such a giant mecha I wonder what's the use, maybe to look lame I guess, and for a boxing ship there's cannons, try to deffend yourself bare handed with a guy that has a gun and you'll see, I find the design a complete POS, but I guess it's not that bad, but then they put the hands.. oh crap... just dock the cannon ship into one of the arms and that's it, not stupid hands.. bleh.. by the way, battle 7 looks like one of those weird mecha from Rahxephon!

Later buddy

Edited December 21, 2004 by macplus

[JB0]

Same with the new battle 7 looking aircraft carrier. producers wanted something new and is sick of fanboys (people like me) of asking for macross to be in.

The Battle 7 wasn't something new, it was a complete aberration and an insult to the Macross itself, good thing it was destroyed, too bad they were building another one..bleh..

I have 2 words for you. Daedalus Attack.

You are defending a boxing battleship, you really don't have a lot of room here.

On the Daedalus attack, the ship was used to put a big hole on the enemy ship, then the forward hatch would open to reveal a bunch of destroids that just blasted the interior of the ship with their ammo,

Rationalize all you want. It's still a battleship with melee combat abilities.

... I find the design a complete POS, but I guess it's not that bad, but then they put the hands.. oh crap... just dock the cannon ship into one of the arms and that's it, not stupid hands.. bleh.. by

Now we're getting somewhere... And I agree. A battleship with hands is silly. Having the cannon as a seperate vehicle has some interesting possibilities, though.

But really, when you get down to it MOST humanoid vehicles are silly, regardless of how anthropomorphized they are. Transforming ones moreso(though transforming battleships score higher in my book than fighterplanes on the not-silly scale, it doesn't say much).

I just get kinda tired of Mac7 bashing sometimes. Especially when it pops up at random for no reason.

[eugimon]

The way I figure it, the daedalus attack was something that came up as a work around solution to the whole not being able to fire the main cannon problem.

the battle 7 on the other hand, was planned and built that way... . Of course, it could make sense tactically.. say in a fleet scenario with multiple Battle class ships... and multiple cannons, they could switch out for more rapid firing I guess... and having hands would mean that you wouldn't have to dock the battle and gun in order to fire, the gun could just get somewhere near where the battle needed it to be and then the battle could just reach out and grab hold.

hmm... not silly if you think of it like that.

[Zentrandude]

The way I figure it, the daedalus attack was something that came up as a work around solution to the whole not being able to fire the main cannon problem.

the battle 7 on the other hand, was planned and built that way... . Of course, it could make sense tactically.. say in a fleet scenario with multiple Battle class ships... and multiple cannons, they could switch out for more rapid firing I guess... and having hands would mean that you wouldn't have to dock the battle and gun in order to fire, the gun could just get somewhere near where the battle needed it to be and then the battle could just reach out and grab hold.

hmm... not silly if you think of it like that.

also its a double edge sword having a gunship, you could easily lose a gunship after it undock and leave the battleship without a big gun to hold on to and fire.

[Radd]

I see the hands as a stylized dacking lattice.

Zentrandude, how do you mean 'lose a gunship'? By that same logic, having a ship at all means you stand the risk of losing the ship to an enemy attack. During a typical transformation, the gunship is never far away from the mainship to suffer an attack that the mainship itself would be completely safe from. If they do lose the gunship somehow, they still have all the other weapons available to a New Macross battleship.

The way I see it, there's more to gain by having multiple seperate gunships that dock with the mainship in a battle situation.

[Final Vegeta]

It would be nice if there was a scene of a Battle 7 with two gunships.

FV

[JB0]

The way I figure it, the daedalus attack was something that came up as a work around solution to the whole not being able to fire the main cannon problem.

the battle 7 on the other hand, was planned and built that way... . Of course, it could make sense tactically.. say in a fleet scenario with multiple Battle class ships... and multiple cannons, they could switch out for more rapid firing I guess... and having hands would mean that you wouldn't have to dock the battle and gun in order to fire, the gun could just get somewhere near where the battle needed it to be and then the battle could just reach out and grab hold.

hmm... not silly if you think of it like that.

There's no really good reason to dock the gunship before firing. It should be capable of autonomous operation for one shot, though I'll grant docking for recharging purposes(if it's powered by supercapacitors instead of an internal generator, it has no way of recharging for a second shot undocked).

[Zentrandude]

I see the hands as a stylized dacking lattice.

Zentrandude, how do you mean 'lose a gunship'? By that same logic, having a ship at all means you stand the risk of losing the ship to an enemy attack. During a typical transformation, the gunship is never far away from the mainship to suffer an attack that the mainship itself would be completely safe from. If they do lose the gunship somehow, they still have all the other weapons available to a New Macross battleship.

The way I see it, there's more to gain by having multiple seperate gunships that dock with the mainship in a battle situation.

You see how long it takes the battle 7 to transform so some of its defencive weapons wouldn't be clear to fire.

Also the gunship undock from the ship while its transforming it won't have defence like the rest of the ship. the pinpoint barrier if it has one won't be as strong as the main.

If I was attacking battle 7 with my fleet Ill attack the gun ship soon as it transform and maybe ram it with one or two of my ships to push it away and play keep away.

The gunship will most likey be very slow and not very maneuverable compared to any of the other ships of the fleet. Also keep the escorts busy or destroyed since mac 7 they pop in the moments notice.

edit: and to as

Edited December 22, 2004 by Zentrandude

[mikeszekely]

I see the hands as a stylized dacking lattice.

Zentrandude, how do you mean 'lose a gunship'? By that same logic, having a ship at all means you stand the risk of losing the ship to an enemy attack. During a typical transformation, the gunship is never far away from the mainship to suffer an attack that the mainship itself would be completely safe from. If they do lose the gunship somehow, they still have all the other weapons available to a New Macross battleship.

The way I see it, there's more to gain by having multiple seperate gunships that dock with the mainship in a battle situation.

You see how long it takes the battle 7 to transform so some of its defencive weapons wouldn't be clear to fire.

Also the gunship undock from the ship while its transforming it won't have defence like the rest of the ship. the pinpoint barrier if it has one won't be as strong as the main.

If I was attacking battle 7 with my fleet Ill attack the gun ship soon as it transform and maybe ram it with one or two of my ships to push it away and play keep away.

The gunship will most likey be very slow and not very maneuverable compared to any of the other ships of the fleet. Also keep the escorts busy or destroyed since mac 7 they pop in the moments notice.

edit: and to as

Yeah, I never did really get into the whole Battle 7 transformation... seems to me like it would have been easier to just made sure the flight deck was clear of the gun section, then just point the bow in the direction of whatever they wanted to shoot at. I mean, the New Macross-class carriers mostly operated in space, so I don't imagine that angling the entire ship to shoot at a target would have been any more difficult than transforming the whole damn thing, and it probably would be easier to continue to launch and land Valkyries if it DIDN'T transform.

That said, though, on the whole I like the Macross-class carriers. In their actual carrier mode, they look decent enough, and having the flight deck on the ship instead of attaching two smaller carriers makes sense to me. And while I don't see much of a reason to create a variable capital ship, the Macross-class looks fine in attacker mode, and even pays homage a bit to the original Macross by using the bridge section as the head, the engines as the feet, and the flight deck (in place of the entire carriers) as the arms.