NERV iPod

[Hurricane29]

I picked up a 20gig recently and I must say its great. As far as the design goes, it gets the job done, kiss method which I like.

[MrDisco]

I'm not saying anyone is stupid for liking them, I'm just trying to understand the craze.

i was talking about the looks as well. it has a simple, intuitive dial. what more do you need? And heck even if white isn't your thing you can slip one of the upteen various skins and cases and change how it looks.

yes i saw that neuros player before as well. it looks like a Fluke meter (for those in the network world). see i think this is the single biggest reason why the ipod is stomping over the competition: it doesn't look like it was designed by a geek techno-nerd. hate to say it but the ipod has a strong appeal among the female population probably due to its elegant interface. i doubt you could say the same for that player.

even Dell acknowledges they are the market leader and they themselves are not interested in seriously competing against Apple in this segment.

and for those who still don't like the idea of a HD player (or don't like the large capacity) not a problem - apple is coming out with a flash based iPod

[JsARCLIGHT]

I bought a 40 giger a while back and bring it from my car to my office. The thing that attracted me to it was the lack of bulk to carry... every piece of music I own is now on one little box. Complete music library wherever and whenever I need it. Admittedly my 'pod had a bum battery from the factory and I was so mad at the thing when I first got it but Apple gladly took it back and sent me a new one. Have not had a problem since.

If a dinosauric computer hater like me can use and love one then anyone can! Plus compared to some of my friend's other make MP3 players the Ipod is downright simple but it still out features theirs.

Edit: and for those who doubt MP3 player tech... these damn things change your life! I was skeptical at first but now it is like my right arm.

Edited December 17, 2004 by JsARCLIGHT

[Murphy]

Admittedly my 'pod had a bum battery from the factory

what was wrong with your battery?

[Gunbuster]

you will but you'll probably have to put 'em on your harddrive since itunes (the software the ipod uses to transfer music) scans the folders you select and if there's a song out of place at any of the transfers, you won't be able to play that song...just the main reason why i hate itunes what happend to the good ol' fashion drag n drop?

I agree with Dat Pinche Haro! With th ipod, you have to install software to transfer music files. Basically you can't just bring ipod over to a friend's house and drag and drop the mp3 you want to it. I want something as simple as drag and drop, not something that I need to transfer then encrpt to it's own format so you can't share it with other mp3 players. With the price of $400 (for a 40GB ipod), why not get a Gmini400, you can listen to mp3 and you can watch your macross DYRL on the go and it's drag and drop (no software needed). it even has a line out so you can output the video onto your TV

http://www.archos.com/products/prw_500637.html

[JB0]

When did they finally get around to introducing that? That was the big complaint I heard from the first couple genrations of Ipods. You needed special software for them, when using them with a PC, even after the Windows compatible ones were introduced. I know they've always been plug and play with Macs.

Uh...Gen1 which was Apple only. Gen2 was when they started selling it for Windows. You needed to use the Windows CD install for it be Windows Compatible. Gen2.5-Gen3 and up they've been PnP as long as itunes was installed on your windows machine.

EXACTLY!

iTunes is what we like to call extra software.

It's quie easy to have a player be seen as a "removable mass storage device." AKA an external hard drive. True plug and play. No installs of anything if your OS properly supports USB mass storage devices(anything above Win98 does on the maintream side of things).

Even ones that need software usually can get by with Windows Media Player, which most comps already have. I think it shipped with late versions of Win98.

Furthermore, many players such as the RCA Lyras and iRivers are upgradable. You can stuff other codecs down their throats, expanding their capabilities. iPods are limited to the few formats Apple thinks you need.

Yes, MP3 is everywhere. No, it's not the only option. WMA and OGG are two other popular formats iPod doesn't support, and current models CAN'T support. Ogg in particular is often looked to as an MP3 upgrade.

As for aesthetics... the solid white iPod is TOO minimalist for my tastes. The U2 iPod looks nice. And the blue iPod mini is as sexy as everyone acts like the solid white one is(too bad the drie is a bit cramped for my tastes).

iRiver's current HDD models give me a style I like in a size I can use, though.

Yes, the iPod has good quality playback. It's among the best. But it has too many strikes against it IMO.

[Skippy438]

I got my iPod for $60, So I couldn't really complain. But since I came to Ireland and started walking everywhere the thing has been a godsend. I'm also a Mac user, and though my opinion is probably biased, it works really well for me. It's integratred from the get-go. I was already using iTunes, so all my music was there already. And if people are worried about not being able to get music off of multiple computers, don't be, because there are third party solutions to that little predicament. And if white turns you off, there are black U2 iPods (which honestly, are kinda ugly). Or you could just get it painted at a specialty shop.

[ComicKaze]

Will there be a special Shinji version that repeats the same track over and over? 

No, but it will provide a self-pleasuring aid for when you lock yourself in a hospital room with the girl of your dreams who constantly rejects you, but is convieniently wearing nothing as the sheets slip off her body...

And I just don't like the ipod hype, the craze, and marketing, and the look of the ipod is too self-serving and "chic" for my tastes.

I wouldn't be caught dead with white headphones in my years.

I'd much rather have a 1GB flash drive that uses replacable AAAs.

If you must have a huge harddrive based player, then there are many alternatives that provide many more options like radio, user replacable battery, live recording, etc. and are more of a bang for your buck.

But as for me, I personally use a Creative Muvo TX FM

Mine has a black unit, blue battery shell, and is 512MB though.

The USB key comes in handy quite a bit. There's also an armband to put it on your arm or anywhere else, and I trust flashbased players for heavy abuse and longevity over a harddrive based player.

Edited December 17, 2004 by ComicKaze

[JsARCLIGHT]

what was wrong with your battery?

It would only hold a charge for like an hour. I did everything exactly as the manual said for startup charging and such... it was just a bad battery. I heard some people comment that something like 1% of all Ipod rechargable batteries ship from the factory dead but I have seen nothing to substantiate that. Rumor mill also says that 1% of all rechargable batteries period ship from their factories flawed in some way. Either way Apple fixed the problem with little to no hassle at all.

[Dangard Ace]

EXACTLY!

iTunes is what we like to call extra software.

It's quie easy to have a player be seen as a "removable mass storage device." AKA an external hard drive. True plug and play. No installs of anything if your OS properly supports USB mass storage devices(anything above Win98 does on the maintream side of things).

Even ones that need software usually can get by with Windows Media Player, which most comps already have. I think it shipped with late versions of Win98.

Furthermore, many players such as the RCA Lyras and iRivers are upgradable. You can stuff other codecs down their throats, expanding their capabilities. iPods are limited to the few formats Apple thinks you need.

Yes, MP3 is everywhere. No, it's not the only option. WMA and OGG are two other popular formats iPod doesn't support, and current models CAN'T support. Ogg in particular is often looked to as an MP3 upgrade.

Yes, the iPod has good quality playback. It's among the best. But it has too many strikes against it IMO.

iPod needs iTunes to run. iPod tried using MusicMatch but it was a horrible experience. iTunes is about 12mb(and IMO a better mp3 player/organizer then wmp) and does play OGG. Unless you're really hurting for space that's not going to kill you. Plus it's PnP if you want to use it as a HD only(though that's kinda stupid...)

WMP/WMA is a competing brand and Microsoft has been saying that it'll come out with it's own Online music store soon. So why would Apple want to support a competitor or vice versa(Microsoft).

OGG is the best for encoding that I know of but I'm not an audiophile. AAC and MP3 are fine for the general user and are supported by the iPod. Re-encoding an MP3 into AAC is crap. Encoding into AAC from a CD is much better then MP3.

Also OGG is open format. Allowing an open format to work on the iPod would probably violate one of the agreements with RIAA. Remember iPod+iTunes are symbiotic and to get RIAA approval for an online store they probably had to make concessions on what the iPod could support/play. The iRiver, Lycra and other players that you're citing don't have an online music store so they don't have that hurdle to deal with.

MP3's are widely used. Joe-public knows of MP3=music files. Joe-public=~90% of people buying digital music playser. Tech guys=9% wma-ogg-acc-lame...etc. Hardcore Audiophiles=1% (they all suck. No warmth in the playback whatsoever). Apple's demographic is Joe-public and you know what, as a business that's exactly who they should appeal to and they're doing a damn fine job of it.

oh and for the record and before anyone accuses me of being Apple/Mac only:

G4 Tower(home)

G4 Powerbook(home)

Shuttle SN95G5(home)

G5 Tower (work)

IBM Netvista(POS-work)

[JB0]

iPod needs iTunes to run. iPod tried using MusicMatch but it was a horrible experience. iTunes is about 12mb(and IMO a better mp3 player/organizer then wmp) and does play OGG. Unless you're really hurting for space that's not going to kill you. Plus it's PnP if you want to use it as a HD only(though that's kinda stupid...)

As I understand things, others can tell when you send them music, so using them as a hard drive works equally well for data warehousing AND music installation.

It's certainly how I'd design one.

The iRiver devices, for example, have twin USB ports. One for normal data, the other for DRM files, it looks like. For normal files, it's simple drag&drop, even if they're music. The player software just ignores any file it doesn't know how to handle.

WMP/WMA is a competing brand and Microsoft has been saying that it'll come out with it's own Online music store soon.  So why would Apple want to support a competitor or vice versa(Microsoft).   

Irrelevant to the fact that it's a popular format that the iPod doesn't support and CAN'T support.

Besides which, they could support unlocked WMA and not the DRM-enabled WMA files.

In fact, I would ENCOURAGE such an action. DOWN WITH DRM!

...

But that's another discussion all together.

OGG is the best for encoding that I know of but I'm not an audiophile.  AAC and MP3 are fine for the general user and are supported by the iPod. 

But if you ever WANT more, you can't have it with an iPod.

Also note that if a glitch is discovered in the firmware(not likely, but possible) you can't fix it with an iPod.

Re-encoding an MP3 into AAC is crap.  Encoding into AAC from a CD is much better then MP3. 

Umm, duh? Converting an MP3 to a better format won't get you any of the benefits, because the data is already lost. It's like converting a JPEG to a bitmap. The data lost is already gone. Chainging formats won't bring it back.

Also OGG is open format.  Allowing an open format to work on the iPod would probably violate one of the agreements with RIAA.  Remember iPod+iTunes are symbiotic and to get RIAA approval for an online store they probably had to make concessions on what the iPod could support/play.  The iRiver, Lycra and other players that you're citing don't have an online music store so they don't have that hurdle to deal with. 

Again, irrelevant to the fact that it DOESN'T support it and CAN'T support it.

Besides which, I don't think the RIAA would complain that the iPod could read OGGs if they don't complain that it reads MP3s, which is what 99.99999% of the pirated stuff is available as. OGG is going to be almost exclusively the domain of people that already own the CDs.

MP3's are widely used.  Joe-public knows of MP3=music files.  Joe-public=~90% of people buying digital music playser.  Tech guys=9% wma-ogg-acc-lame...etc.  Hardcore Audiophiles=1% (they all suck.  No warmth in the playback whatsoever).  Apple's demographic is Joe-public and you know what, as a business that's exactly who they should appeal to and they're doing a damn fine job of it.

Joe Public still believes claims that a 64-meg player can hold a full CD's worth of music at reasonable quality. Joe Public can't tell the diffrence between mono and stereo most of the time, much less high-quality reproductions and low-quality ones. Joe Public knows nothing, and would buy a box of dried poop if it had an ad campaign like the iPod did.

It IS to Apple's credit that they spent the money to make the iPod a decent MP3 player as well as a commercial success, but that doesn't change the fact that it's got limited features and is not upgradable.

oh and for the record and before anyone accuses me of being Apple/Mac only:

G4 Tower(home)

G4 Powerbook(home)

Shuttle SN95G5(home)

G5 Tower (work)

IBM Netvista(POS-work)

I wasn't going to, actually.

But I DO notice a decided lack of IBM-compatibles at home. Work comps don't count, because you probably HAVE to use them.

My opinion is that Macs are fine computers, but they don't run most of the software I want, and have a lousy price/performance ratio.

Though there is a third factor, in that I enjoy playing with the hardware. All my IBM-compatibles have been home-built. I do all my own upgrades. A day spent poking around in my beige aluminum box is a good day. I don't WANT a pre-made computer, regardless of brand, architecture, or price tag... well, if it's cheap enough, I may buy it to steal parts out of(assuming it has proper expansion cards instead of integrated peripherals).

On the other hand, I like playing with stuff. I've long wanted a Mac just to goof around with. But I can't really justify buying a Mac just to say I own one.

...

Of course, I WAS going to spring for that 20$ Silicon Graphics workstation for that exact reason, if he hadn't sold it before I got there... So never mind. If I find a used Mac with the right price, it will probably wind up with a home.

If you like Macs, more power to you. I have no problem with it.

I do not believe that "Mac user" is an insult in the least. Apple makes some fine products.

Their LCDs especially are second to none, and all but the most die-hard anti-Apple people have drooled over the 30" LCD. I don't even LIKE LCD monitors(I prefer something with a beter contrast ratio and more variability in resolution) and I've drooled over it.

However, I think that the iPod and Mac, while fine products, are overpriced for what they are, and would prefer to spend my money elsewhere.

[Blaine23]

As someone who has the original 5gig(x2) iPod since day 1, which has gone taken a beating (mountain biking, skiing, snowboarding, rock climbing and still runs great) sah-weet!

Though I rather like Blaine's idea of a unit 00, 01, and 02.

Thankya DA. I'd probably get the butt ass ugly combo of purple and lime green... just because I'm weird. But Unit 02 would probably look the best.

I gotta agree with you. I speak from personal experience here. I've had an original Nomad and a Nomad Zen NX and both fell apart with very little usage - mainly car and office.

My g/f has had 2 iPods, a 2g 10GB and a 3G 40Gb, both are still working fine and took much more of a beating. So when my last Creative died, I decided to spend more money on the superior product. And trust me - I'm not an Apple user so it was difficult for me... this is the first Apple product I've bought since I was studying graphic design.

At $299 for a 20GB 4G, I don't think it's really that much more expensive. You may be able to get more space for less money elsewhere, but you also get a no resale value, cheaper made goods, and at best, an iPod lookalike (which is what all the new Creative Zens are).

I love being able to carry that much music, audiobooks, etc in my pocket. I've pretty much ignored my giant CD shelf since I got mine.

If somebody wanted to get a cheaper mp3 player - I say good for you. It didn't work out very well for me. But please lay off the "lemming" crap - it's not as if there's not good, practical reasons to buy the more expensive product.

Just for giggles, a quick Photochop test -

And yes, Unit02 does look the best.

[JB0]

At $299 for a 20GB 4G, I don't think it's really that much more expensive. You may be able to get more space for less money elsewhere, but you also get a no resale value, cheaper made goods, and at best, an iPod lookalike (which is what all the new Creative Zens are).

Cheaper-made is debatable.

Sure Creative's fall apart. We've got that established pretty well here.

But what about other brands? There's about a dozen out there, I'm pretty sure.

Every quality comparsion has been to a Creative Labs product.

And like I said, it's not just space, but features. I think the iPod is a tad light on some features it SHOULD have.

I like the red/orange combo. Another fine improvement over white-on-white.

[Dangard Ace]

Drag 'n drop. I'd rather set up a playlist in iTunes hook my iPod to it and have it sync. Simpler and easier IMO.

Apple is a business. Alot of the irrelevants you cite are relevant. You're looking at the end product but you're not looking at WHY. To use wmp/wma Apple has to go to MS and talk to them about licensing it to use that format on their drive/program. And if RIAA/music labels are stupid enough to sue the customer for d/l tunes instead of the provider why do you think they won't throw something about OGG into a clause? I've seen ogg stuff on p2p sites often enough. It's not common but it's not rare either.

Firmware glitches. All different firmware patches are saved to your HD. If the current one's broke, run the previous version and voila! iPod did not originally have AAC support. Firmware patch fixed that. If Apple could support OGG on the iPod (and people've been crying for that since Gen1 showed up) they would.

As for the AAC and MP3 thing, you have no idea how many....challenged people there are that don't realize compression loss.

Joe-public: again JP=90% Techs=9% AUDIOPHILES=1%

As for not having a IBM-compatible machine at home, look again.

SHUTTLE SN95G5: Athlon 64 3500+ www.shuttle.com

That's a WinXP machine(sp2). I sold my old Antec Aria last year. I build and tinker with my own PC's too. Funny how my home PC's are much much better then my work PC.

[Jolly Rogers]

Congrats on DA's 666th post... \m/

[JB0]

Drag 'n drop. I'd rather set up a playlist in iTunes hook my iPod to it and have it sync. Simpler and easier IMO.

Given my "playlists" consist of every file I have and a shuffle button, I prefer the fastest way to get 'em over there.

Apple is a business.  Alot of the irrelevants you cite are relevant.  You're looking at the end product but you're not looking at WHY. 

Why it's not there is irrelevant to the fact that it's not there.

Explaining why the sky is blue instead of green doesn't change the fact that the sky is blue.

To use wmp/wma Apple has to go to MS and talk to them about licensing it to use that format on their drive/program. 

Which would be the thing to do, really. If you don't support the DRM stuff, you don't support MS's announced online music store, and there's no conflict of interest.

And if RIAA/music labels is stupid enough to sue the customer for d/l tunes instead of the provider why do you think they won't throw something about OGG into a clause?  I've seen ogg stuff on p2p sites often enough.  It's not common but it's not rare either.

Like I said, they didn't ban MP3s. Which is their big hot-button topic.

BTW, Samsung supports OGG. And the resurrected licensed Napster download service(that no one uses). Though I do grant that as they don't actually OWN Napster, the example isn't quite the same.

Firmware glitches.  All different firmware patches are saved to your HD.  If the current one's broke, run the previous version and voila!  iPod did not originally have AAC support.  Firmware patch fixed that. 

I was under the impression the iPod firmware wasn't upgradable. We could've saved a lot of trouble here if someone had just said "yeah it is" way back when I first said it wasn't.

If Apple could support OGG on the iPod (and people've been crying for that since Gen1 showed up) they would. 

I think it's more like MS not fixing PNG support on MSIE(a long-promised upgrade that's never materialized). They don't really have to, so why bother doing it?

As for not having a IBM-compatible machine at home, look again. 

SHUTTLE SN95G5:  Athlon 64  3500+    www.shuttle.com

That's a WinXP machine(sp2).  I sold my old Antec Aria last year.  I build and tinker with my own PC's too.  Funny how my home PC's are much much better then my work PC.

GAH!

I'd've SWORE that said work. I even read it multiple times, too.

Sorry.

[Blaine23]

Cheaper-made is debatable.

Sure Creative's fall apart. We've got that established pretty well here.

But what about other brands? There's about a dozen out there, I'm pretty sure.

Every quality comparsion has been to a Creative Labs product.

And like I said, it's not just space, but features. I think the iPod is a tad light on some features it SHOULD have.

I like the red/orange combo. Another fine improvement over white-on-white.

True. I haven't owned every Mp3 player... I have used a friend's Rio and another friend's Lyra. After comparing their players to mine, both bought iPods. So that rules out most of the other competition to me, too.

But Creative is the #2 selling hard drive based Mp3 player, so I AM comparing #1 & #2. Of course, there's a HUUUUUUGE drop between the Apple and Creative in terms of units sold.

I have used a friend's Rio and another friend's Lyra. After comparing their players to mine, both bought iPods. And I wouldn't buy either of their products, either. Lyra= too big, doesn't save your place after a power off (wtf?). Rio = easily the worst interface with the computer I've used (even worse than Creative Media Manager) and it had a tendency to break down.

Don't much about Archos or the others... but I'm doubting they're

Again, I see the reasoning in most of your iPod complaints - there are some things I definitely think could be improved. I wish iTunes could drag and drop or just use IE for that without additional 3rd party software - but on any large capacity player having your tags correct is very important - and iTunes kills the competition in that regard. It's actually not a bad little tagging program, aside from all the other stuff it does. As far as some of the other complaints - it doesn't have FM radio - I don't care and don't want it. It doesn't do voice recording - sure it does, but you have to buy an attachment, if you really want to do that. Personally, I'd rather just have a voice recorder for that job. It doesn't play OGG or WMA - Don't care and don't care. My collection is mp3, at a good bitrate, and with 40GB of space, I got no complaints.

I just think iPod is a good at what it sets out to be. Sure, it dominates the competition, but that's not all just marketing or spin. It works well, the navigation is simple to use and it has a reputation for quality. I don't really see any reason to put it down simply because it's a winner in terms of sales and marketing, y'know?

[Zentrandude]

I trust flashbased players for heavy abuse and longevity over a harddrive based player.

Depends on what you get. i used to have a cheap 64mb mp3 player for 100 bucks and after awhile it crapped out from overheating and the earplug socket burnt out (couldnt replace it since they didn't use a standard version i can get from radioshack).

[Max Jenius]

OMFG extra software to use a peripheral?! De Karucha!

Guys, who cares? Just get an mp3 player that is right for you. The iPod doesn't speak to some people... oh well. That's why there's variety out there!

What's with this longevity thing? Micro-HDD players are just as reliable as flash memory. Plus, they're quite handy when you've got to transfer massive ISO files to a friend(via drag n drop. )

But I am seeing a lot of people making stupid assumptions that they have no business making... Sooooo why not talk about the NERV iPod?

[MrDisco]

i want my nerv ipod to have pics of misato on it. in lingerie. with asuka. nm i've said too much.

[Jolly Rogers]

i want my nerv ipod to have pics of misato on it. in lingerie. with asuka. nm i've said too much.

I second the motion.

[drifand]

iTunes and iPod support the highest quality available for portable music files: AIFF and Apple Lossless Audio Encoding. If you absolutely do not want to compromise, why settle for OGG or whatever? AIFF is exactly what you're getting on CDs now... you CAN play it back on iTunes and iPods, though the HUGE file sizes gobble up space and battery life. In which case Apple Lossless, based on wavelet compression technology does the same job in about half the size.

So don't ever say Apple didn't give the quality sticklers a viable alternative. The RIAA is here to stay; want to do business and thrive? Better find a good compromise between appeasing the rights owners and the customers... Like Apple.

As for design and taste... why argue? "Simple and timeless" to some will always be "too plain and boring" for others. "High-tech and dazzling" to another crowd will look "geeky and inelegant" to the next. Same for the usabilty-versus-"i don't need it" arguments over iTunes. Some folks just love doing things themselves... from keeping track of hundreds/thousands of music files, to on-the-fly playlists (which the latest iPods CAN do). I've heard so many people spell out why they refuse to get an iPod... and YET, I've never met any iPod owner who hates his purchase with such vehemence. They're usually too busy having fun.

[JB0]

True. I haven't owned every Mp3 player... I have used a friend's Rio and another friend's Lyra. After comparing their players to mine, both bought iPods. So that rules out most of the other competition to me, too.

But Creative is the #2 selling hard drive based Mp3 player, so I AM comparing #1 & #2. Of course, there's a HUUUUUUGE drop between the Apple and Creative in terms of units sold.

I have used a friend's Rio and another friend's Lyra. After comparing their players to mine, both bought iPods. And I wouldn't buy either of their products, either. Lyra= too big, doesn't save your place after a power off (wtf?). Rio = easily the worst interface with the computer I've used (even worse than Creative Media Manager) and it had a tendency to break down.

Don't much about Archos or the others... but I'm doubting they're

Okay, now we've got some other stuff on the list.

Again, I see the reasoning in most of your iPod complaints - there are some things I definitely think could be improved.  I wish iTunes could drag and drop or just use IE for that without additional 3rd party software - but on any large capacity player having your tags correct is very important - and iTunes kills the competition in that regard.  It's actually not a bad little tagging program, aside from all the other stuff it does. 

Mmmm... I think about half my MP3s are untagged. And pr'ly half of those are incomprehensible filenames too. Good thing I don't go for controlled playback.

As far as some of the other complaints - it doesn't have FM radio - I don't care and don't want it.  It doesn't do voice recording - sure it does, but you have to buy an attachment, if you really want to do that.  Personally, I'd rather just have a voice recorder for that job. 

I view those as fluff, and irrelevant, personally.

...

I really like that word today.

I might get some mileage out of the radio, but it certainly wouldn't be a major factor.

It doesn't play OGG or WMA - Don't care and don't care.  My collection is mp3, at a good bitrate, and with 40GB of space, I got no complaints.

Yah. I need to rerip my CDs anyways(low bitrate encodes), and I'm considering moving up to a diffrent codec while I'm at it.

...

But I'll likely put it off forever, because it's a pain.

I just think iPod is a good at what it sets out to be.  Sure, it dominates the competition, but that's not all just marketing or spin.  It works well, the navigation is simple to use and it has a reputation for quality.  I don't really see any reason to put it down simply because it's a winner in terms of sales and marketing, y'know?

/me shrugs.

I just think it's a tad over-rated.

Like I said, not a bad product, just missing some features I'd expect at that price point.

Honestly, I've been drooling voer the iRiver HDD players. Too bad they're iPod Photo level. That adds about a hundred bucks for a feature I don't care about.

But the look and feature set are about what I want, and I've heard nothing but good things about them. If they still sold their H100 series, I'd be a very happy camper.

[Blaine23]

Mmmm... I think about half my MP3s are untagged. And pr'ly half of those are incomprehensible filenames too. Good thing I don't go for controlled playback.

Yikes! Maybe I've got a touch of the Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (okay, I've got a major touch of it ), but I think I'd die if I had to deal with untagged, wacky named mp3s for very long.

Once you've got 37gb worth of audio in your pocket, it could seriously take hours to find what you want.

One of my favorite things about having an HD based player is the ability to make an on-the-go mix as I feel it.

The funniest thing about all the RIAA restrictions on iPod and other players is that it's really very easy to plunk down $90 on an external USB Maxtor 80GB drive an load it up full of quasi legal content and give it to a friend. As we speak, 2 of my closest are getting full, external music collections for the holidays.

And people say I have no heart...

[mikeszekely]

Heh... ressurecting a dead topic because I'm in the market for something like an iPod.

Well, I haven't seen all the options... but it does seem like most alternatives are not much less for a lot less storage and or features. And by features, I mean I don't give a rat's ass if the new Creative players have a built in radio. If I liked what was on the radio, I'd be less interested in portable music. The gen five iPod's video playback speaks to me more... 30GB of storage means plenty of music AND every episode of Family Guy. Plus, they come in black now.

But, it's the Xbox 360 that really has me looking at iPods. I hooked my dad's up to it without a hitch. Browsing the iPod's content is as easy on the 360 as it is on the iPod itself, plus you can use what's on your iPod to replace the in game music, which is a big plus in games like NFS: Most Wanted that only had maybe six or seven songs that I liked. And since my 360 is hooked up to my home theater, I won't have to dig out a CD to listen to music... just plug the iPod into the 360. I'll look into car audio solutions too, that way I don't have to worry about what CDs I have in my car, or if I'm driving my wife's car, or what not.

[Matt Random]

I wrote a big post about other players that do video and interface with the XBox 360 but deleted it since it would probably just ignite something that would spin off into oblivion and not help you all that much.

Which player is best all comes down to what you need, what you want and what appeals to you. www.dapreview.net is a good resource site.

[VF-19]

I'm not an apple fan for one reason: Price. I mean, it's what some call the "apple tax", but I just don't see the justification for dropping down the cash just to get an Ipod.

I'm very happy with my Zen touch. Sure it's big (it's the 40 gig version), but the battery lasts for a long long time (24 hours give or take), and it sounds great.

What I'd really really like to see as a bundled extra for hard drive players is a wired remote. I'd rather leave the player attached to my belt and use the remote to move around the tracks, rather than to pull the player out and risk dropping it...

And yes, I got the Nomad Jukebox remote (works perfectly with the Zen touch), and I love it to pieces too.

[myk]

...you can use what's on your iPod to replace the in game music, which is a big plus in games like NFS: Most Wanted that only had maybe six or seven songs that I liked. 

358616[/snapback]

That's reason enough to get a 'Pod right there. Modern gametracks grate my nerves and NFS is no exception. DOA4 isn't too bad though, but the idea of being able to upload my own tracks is very tempting...

[mikeszekely]

I'm not an apple fan for one reason: Price. I mean, it's what some call the "apple tax", but I just don't see the justification for dropping down the cash just to get an Ipod.

The price argument might have held up before, but I really don't believe it does now. A 20GB Zen Sleek is $250. i-River's current 20GB model with photo support is $270. And the Philips 30GB GoGear Jukebox is $280. In Creative and i-River's cases, you pay $30-$50 more, and you get 10GB more storage. The Philips player has the same ammount of storage, but hell, for the extra $20, the iPod supports video... a feature that's certainly worth the extra $20 next time I'm waiting an hour for a table at the Olive Garden and killing time by watching Family Guy.

[Jedi Knight]

Gonna haveta get me some of that Christina Aguilera edition! Ahem. 

234021[/snapback]

LOL!

[Fort Max]

I just got an ipod Nano for Christmas, after having no idea what I wanted I just asked for an iPod since I thought it might work out better then my CD player at work.

After just 3 days it has become a godsend to me, it's so different from a cd player that it took me that long to adjust to using it and getting the most from it.

[Murphy]

I just got an ipod Nano for Christmas, after having no idea what I wanted I just asked for an iPod since I thought it might work out better then my CD player at work.

After just 3 days it has become a godsend to me, it's so different from a cd player that it took me that long to adjust to using it and getting the most from it.

358732[/snapback]

yea my ipod is a god send to me too, thats the great thing about them is that you can hook them up to anything, i love comming home and taking it out of my pocket placing it in the dock thats connected to my stereo system. i have a 4th generation 40 GB ipod so it dosnt have color or have vid but its still awsome, Im didnt get the new nano or video this year because im waiting "if" they come out with a ipod that has digital fiber optic connections so i can have true DTS/ES rather than stereo comming outta 7.1 channels. (I dont know if this is possible i havent done reasearch but since dvd audio is dts/es couldnt cd audio have it too?)

[Wes]

I got Sandisk 4GB Sansa player for about $170 and after getting a connection issue resolved I love it. I got about 3 days worth of music in a device as big as two of my fingers, which runs off a AAA battery for 19 hours. It does the subscription services stuff and because it's flash-based you can run with it.

Im didnt get the new nano or video this year because im waiting "if" they come out with a ipod that has digital fiber optic connections so i can have true DTS/ES rather than stereo comming outta 7.1 channels. (I dont know if this is possible i havent done reasearch but since dvd audio is dts/es couldnt cd audio have it too?)

Although it's possible, I haven't seen dvd audio getting any real support, so I doubt it will happen anytime soon.

[JB0]

I got Sandisk 4GB Sansa player for about $170 and after getting a connection issue resolved I love it.  I got about 3 days worth of music in a device as big as two of my fingers, which runs off a AAA battery for 19 hours.  It does the subscription services stuff and because it's flash-based you can run with it.

Im didnt get the new nano or video this year because im waiting "if" they come out with a ipod that has digital fiber optic connections so i can have true DTS/ES rather than stereo comming outta 7.1 channels. (I dont know if this is possible i havent done reasearch but since dvd audio is dts/es couldnt cd audio have it too?)

Although it's possible, I haven't seen dvd audio getting any real support, so I doubt it will happen anytime soon.

358826[/snapback]

CD can't have anything other than stereo. Redbook standard specifies 2 PCM channels, each one being 16-bit 44.1 KHz.

DVD Audio and SACD are new standards, with new specs.

Both have several copy protection mechanisms, and SACD includs an explicit banning of digital out in the players.

And DTSES doesn't mean 8 channels. You can have 8 channels of raw PCM. DTS ES specifies a whole suite of things, including compression scheme and quality requirements. Essentially, DTS is Dolby Digital Plus.

And many DVDAudio disks are in stereo. Almost all include a stereo soundtrack, simply because so many audiophiles have stereo setups.

Anyways, DVDA and SACD are audiophile-exclusive, and likely to remain so. The mass market A. doesn't really hear the benefit and B. is moving towards an iTunes-style distribution scheme anyways.

[Jolly Rogers]

There you go boys n girls, Limited Edition Suikoden iPod Nano, with customized earbuds:

http://www.konamistyle.jp/sp/genso_ipod/index.html