neon genesis evangelion

[kung flu]

it makes sense for women to play small children and teenage boys in anime, since no real bloke can ever get their voice to such high pitches unless your balls are crushed.

[Marzan]

it makes sense for women to play small children and teenage boys in anime, since no real bloke can ever get their voice to such high pitches unless your balls are crushed.

I suppose that the legendary Shinji scream would have to have been a factor in casting a voice actor for Shinji Ikari.

[dreamweaver13]

I suppose that the legendary Shinji scream would have to have been a factor in casting a voice actor for Shinji Ikari.

ah. the shinji primal scream. still gives me goose-bumps to this day. just for this, Megumi Ogata will always remain one of my favorite seiyuus of all time.

[VFTF1]

I always loved the Shinji scream It's so raw!! She did a great job because Shinji really does sound like a maturing young boy and not like a little girl (he just acts like a little girl...sometimes...but then again...don't we all?? )

Anyways... even though I don't know Japanese, the voice acting in Neon Genesis Evangelion gets through to me because it's so emotional. Emotions are rather universal, and so it's enough that the subs explain what they are saying/screaming/whispering...and when you have that parallel to the excellent animation...aaaahh....so awesome!!

It's amazing that for the longest time, before watching this anime, all I would hear (if anything) is derogatory comments about it, to the effect that it "makes no sense" and that it's "Japanese" (synonymous with "makes no sense") or that it's "wierd religious/mystical stuff"

Don't ask for links - I'm talking about the 90s when NGE came out and I was totally not into anime...I think the first serious anime I ever watched episode after episode (and really loved it) was Tenchi Muyo. I don't remember a damn thing about it, except that every episode a new hot babe appeared out of a space ship...or something like that ...

But from time to time, I'd hear about NGE off hand - or read about it...the internet was young back then...and I guess I never got interested enough to...try to figure it out...

Then - fast forward to...when was it? .... 2002? 2003? Somewhere thereabouts.... I was in a French Institute here in Warsaw looking for Tintin comics....and I happened upon a french edition of the NGE manga - volume 1....

It just featured ...what's his name...Shmizel? MizeL? The first angel...or second?...the black one with the skulls from episode 1 ....

It was hard to read in French, but since je peux lire en francais comci-comca ....I managed...

The REALLY funny thing is that I BELIEVED the manga when it said that the Second Impact was a comet that hit the Earth 15 years ago!!

And I remember thinking:

"Pff... how predictable! A comet hits the Earth and then monsters show up that only big robots piloted by children can fight...whatEVER!!"

I can't believe what a moron I was for not tracking down the rest of the story.

I actually BOUGHT the "lie" that was part of the story itself!!

Ahh...

poor me...

Pete

Edited January 13, 2010 by VFTF1

[Gubaba]

I always loved the Shinji scream It's so raw!! She did a great job because Shinji really does sound like a maturing young boy and not like a little girl (he just acts like a little girl...sometimes...but then again...don't we all?? )

Anyways... even though I don't know Japanese, the voice acting in Neon Genesis Evangelion gets through to me because it's so emotional. Emotions are rather universal, and so it's enough that the subs explain what they are saying/screaming/whispering...and when you have that parallel to the excellent animation...aaaahh....so awesome!!

It's amazing that for the longest time, before watching this anime, all I would hear (if anything) is derogatory comments about it, to the effect that it "makes no sense" and that it's "Japanese" (synonymous with "makes no sense") or that it's "wierd religious/mystical stuff"

Don't ask for links - I'm talking about the 90s when NGE came out and I was totally not into anime...I think the first serious anime I ever watched episode after episode (and really loved it) was Tenchi Muyo. I don't remember a damn thing about it, except that every episode a new hot babe appeared out of a space ship...or something like that ...

Hmm...for me, it was...1996? 1997? I think '97...when by chance I ran into one of my old friends, who was probably the most hardcore anime fan I knew in the '80s (he managed to track down EVERY SINGLE EPISODE of Zeta Gundam on VHS in the mid-'80s. It took him a lot of searching, wheeling, and dealing, but he did it). Anyway, after catching up about real life stuff, he asked if I'd seen Evangelion. I said no. He said, "Oh, you've GOT to. It's the robot show for thinking people."

So I rented the first volume, and got into it. REALLY into it. Once I caught up to volume eight (episodes 15 and 16), though, then I had to start waiting...which was a pain.

Anyway, the point is that I had no internet connection, so my only connection to the anime world at large was the staff at the comic/video store near me, my friends, and occasionally Animerica magazine. And pretty much all of us loved the series, so I didn't learn about the backlash until later. I was quite puzzled by it at the time, but I'm less so now. The reasons I love the show (its experimentation, the fact that they take pains to show what clinical depression can really be like, the mystical/religious window dressing), is guaranteed to make the people who just want a nice giant robot show angry.

That, and the show's more strenuous fans can be more than a little annoying at times (I know, I'm one of 'em).

These days, I figure Eva, being one of the most well-known and influential anime series ever, doesn't really need me to come to its defense...I can just sit back and let it defend itself way better than I ever could. And I kind of like the fact that a lot of people don't "get it." It means that, like a lot of great art, it's not obvious.

To me, the mystery is not why so many people hate the show, the mystery is how a show so blatantly avant garde ever became so popular in the first place.

[VFTF1]

the mystery is how a show so blatantly avant garde ever became so popular in the first place

Answer: the internet.

See - I seriously think that one of the greatest services prodived by the internet is the to further the division of labor. You know - if you are expert and farming, you farm. If you're into shoe making - you make shoes. You don't need to do everything for yourself - you can trade with other people, and if one of the things you do is produce means of exchange, then you can also trade this to facilitate more trade....

Fast forward to the internet...

If you're not into very intelligent stuff but prefer to look at pictures of horse poop every day - then there's probably a website out there for you.

No longer do people who want to look at horse poop have to vie for air time and production money with people who want something like NGE.

Now - there is no longer really an anime market, just like there is no longer ANY kind of homogenous market. There are millions of market niches, with millions of people specializing in millions of arcane things - and it's all reflected in the internet.

And where once there was conflict - now it's like - there's more room for everybody, so nobody gets in anybody's way.

I don't think Eva is "more" popular now than it was before - I just think that it's easier to target and that those people who would love to see it no longer have to take pains (like your pal with Zeta did) to do so.

The world has become smaller and it's not that more fans materialized - it's just that they have better access and producers of anime can "talk" straight to their target instead of having to canvass and mass market (and therefore dumb down/water down a product).

At least that's what I THINK has happened.

Pete

[Marzan]

To me, the mystery is not why so many people hate the show, the mystery is how a show so blatantly avant garde ever became so popular in the first place.

While I agree with Pete in that thanks to the internet there is now a market and a niche for almost every genre, I do think that NGE was something special in that it trascended the boundaries of what should have been its core audience.

The way I see it, NGE, despite the fact that it is rather complicated for many people, is just such a well written story that if you happened to watch just one episode you were gripped by it and just had to know what was going on and how it was going to end. I really can't think of many other stories (in any medium) were you were so engrossed by the fascinating possibilities the the story suggested at almost any point. The very fact that there are still so many diverging interpretations on many of its aspects (Instrumentality, the nature of the EVA's, relationships between characters etc) just backs up how important it was.

Another, albeit less important reason why NGE became so big, is that it really had a peculiar balance between serious content and then blatant fanservice. What was just a stroke of genius was that they actually acknowledged it in the preview for the next episodes! I can't recall anyone doing that before NGE.

[VFTF1]

All I know is that my girlfriend wanted to turn it off abot 3 minutes into episode 1

Meanwhile, she watched through ALL of Pine Salad and said it was good.

Pete

[Bri]

To me, the mystery is not why so many people hate the show, the mystery is how a show so blatantly avant garde ever became so popular in the first place.

That's a very interesting point. I've seen NGE get called one of three shows that were a "social phenomenon" in Japan: Yamato, Gundam and NGE. While I can see why these shows were innovative and changed the way people look at animation, but I don't know the ins and outs on why they had such a mainstream impact.

NGE was very strong in dealing with depression. But wasn't NGE was also a social critique on the conditions for the youth in Japan in the nineties? The heavy pressures from the education system, cram schools and all that. I've read that Shinji was a novelty in Japanese fiction and broke social boundaries in the way he refused to do what was expected of him and not prepared to "act" (or put on different "masks", not quite sure how to put it into words here) differently in various social situations like at home, school and work.

[Gubaba]

Another, albeit less important reason why NGE became so big, is that it really had a peculiar balance between serious content and then blatant fanservice. What was just a stroke of genius was that they actually acknowledged it in the preview for the next episodes! I can't recall anyone doing that before NGE.

I think it's important to note that Misato nattering on about "Service! Service!" DOESN'T mean "fanservice" in the sense of nudity or sexy shots...more generally, anything given free or as a bonus is considered "service" in Japanese (compare Sheryl's "I don't do this kind of service very often" or the bartender at a pub I went to in Tokyo who put down a bowl of nuts and said, in slow English, "This is service"). So, in Eva, it pretty much just means, "We'll give you more than your money's worth next time, too!"

That's a very interesting point. I've seen NGE get called one of three shows that were a "social phenomenon" in Japan: Yamato, Gundam and NGE. While I can see why these shows were innovative and changed the way people look at animation, but I don't know the ins and outs on why they had such a mainstream impact.

And it's interesting that of those three, Eva was the only one that was popular right off the bat, as both Yamato and Gundam were cancelled on their initial run.

My thoughts about it: A lot of fuss is made about the fact that Gainax is the ultra-otaku studio. As such, they made the show that THEY wanted to see, which directly led to it being a show that otaku would like. If you're into giant robots, the first half of Eva has SOMETHING you're going to like, and probably a lot of it.

At the same time, they don't fall into the trap that a lot of geek-productions do, which is ignoring the characters in favor of rock-'em sock-'em action or insanely detailed technical talk. The characters (while often painted with broad strokes) are recognizably human in a way that Gundam or Yamato's characters often aren't. A lot of time is spent with just the characters talking to each other (and, towards the end, themselves) about their thoughts and wishes; this is unexpected in a robot show, and allows people who AREN'T into giant robots to get hooked on it as well. Combine that with the times in which it came out, when TV anime was in kind of a doldrums of kiddie series with low production values, and Eva REALLY stood apart from the rest and seemed even MORE special. Then of course there's the fact that the story is full of mysteries and riddles, and it always seems like the answers are right around the corner. It feels like a puzzle that can be figured out if you you just get that one...missing...piece of information. Yes, it can seem like the show is stringing people along, especially when a lot of the mysteries end up unresolved, but I for one never got the feeling that there WEREN'T answers, or that the staff was making it up as they went along. It was well-crafted (even, arguably, at the end(s) of the story), often VERY well animated, with characters that can be accepted as moderately real people.

And it raised the bar for anime, especially TV anime. A lot of series (*cough*Eightron*cough*) post-Eva figured that the way to compete with it was to have depressed heroes and bizarre plotlines, but the best of what came after (Cowboy Bebop being foremost, I believe) took the RIGHT lesson: make your fictional world unique, and make the plot serve the characters.

[VFTF1]

And it's interesting that of those three, Eva was the only one that was popular right off the bat, as both Yamato and Gundam were cancelled on their initial run.

Well in all fairness, didn't NGE run out of money initially?

The characters (while often painted with broad strokes) are recognizably human in a way that Gundam or Yamato's characters often aren't. A lot of time is spent with just the characters talking to each other (and, towards the end, themselves) about their thoughts and wishes; this is unexpected in a robot show, and allows people who AREN'T into giant robots to get hooked on it as well.

Which is why I made a big mistake showing NGE to my girlfriend starting with episode one - since to her non-otaku eyes it's just some ruined city with a big monster walking through it getting shot at by the military and people generally getting very mad at the monster being unstoppable...

It is also why the one episode of SDFM TV she saw - Pine Salad - she liked. Although there's mecha action, there's also a lot of dialogue, and interaction and character plot.

Same as when she happened to see a portion of Macross Frontier and also liked it... well - what portion was it? The one where Sheryl was at Alto's dad's place and Alto snuck in to see her any they talked by the pond...

Combine that with the times in which it came out, when TV anime was in kind of a doldrums of kiddie series with low production values, and Eva REALLY stood apart from the rest and seemed even MORE special.

This is really true - at least for the American market as I recall it.

Back then, "Japanese anime" was Digimon, Pokemon and asorted other crappymons. Beast Wars and Beast Machines seemed to be serious works of science fiction and I would run screeming from the TV when Japanese crap came on because it just seemed so cliche and kiddie.

Then again...I'm talking about FoxKids line up back then so...

Naturally Toonami had better stuff going for it...

But those were hazy times...I had this feeling that there was something better out there...but not a lot was available by just turning on the TV...and I couldn't find Keith on the internet back then so... ...

A lot of series (*cough*Eightron*cough*) post-Eva figured that the way to compete with it was to have depressed heroes and bizarre plotlines

yeah...going overboard with emo characters can be bad too

Pete

[Gubaba]

Well in all fairness, didn't NGE run out of money initially?

Yeah, I tink so (I've also heard that a lot of the animators never got paid for their work on the last bunch of episodes...you'd think Gainax could've paid them back with interest later... ), but at least it was allowed to finish its run. Of course, it was always intended to be 26 episodes, whereas both Yamato (cancelled at episode 26) and Gundam (cancelled at episode 39 and given a four-episode extension) were meant to be 52 episodes long.

This is really true - at least for the American market as I recall it.

I'm not talking about the American market, which was really flourishing (at least in direct-to-video releases) in the mid-'90s...I'm talking about the Japanese market. Very few anime aimed at teenagers or adults was on air on TV in Japan in the early-to-mid '90s. The '80s boom was over, and kid's stuff was on TV, with the more "mature" material being released as OVAs. Eva helped change that, even if the effects were only felt on cable channels for a while.

[Bri]

And it raised the bar for anime, especially TV anime. A lot of series (*cough*Eightron*cough*) post-Eva figured that the way to compete with it was to have depressed heroes and bizarre plotlines, but the best of what came after (Cowboy Bebop being foremost, I believe) took the RIGHT lesson: make your fictional world unique, and make the plot serve the characters.

I think it's pretty much impossible to overestimate the impact NGE had on later productions. Unfortunately, and as you said, the influence has not always been positive. It's equally ironic and disturbing that a lot of drama and comedy anime created stock characters based on NGE's cast. Based on their behaviour and looks but often without any resemblance of their motivations.

Rei Ayanami is widely recognised as the mother of all things moe. To think that those cute, clumsy characters find their origin in a personality as distorted as Rei's.

Emo characters as poor copys of Shinji don't need further discussion.

While there were plenty of tsunderes before Asuka, she redefined the looks and behaviour of the modern tsundere. Interestingly, Asuka is a rebel (or revolutionary if you please) without a cause. Fueld by anger, engaging in conflicts or fights she can't win, but this keeps her anger burning. A fire as it were, buring so intense while running towards that one final unwinnable fight to go out in a blaze of glory. What a difference with the cliche tsundere, that just gets warm and cold for the wimpy cliche harem lead. Maybe the high school dream sequence of Shinji was a vision of things to come in anime.

I'm not quite sure about this but I think NGE was also the first anime to reintroduce a high school setting. While in NGE this school is hardly a place to nostalgic about, I get the impression this was the start of bringing back high school life in virtually every genre of anime.

Edited January 13, 2010 by Bri

[dreamweaver13]

Hmm...for me, it was...1996? 1997? I think '97...when by chance I ran into one of my old friends, who was probably the most hardcore anime fan I knew in the '80s (he managed to track down EVERY SINGLE EPISODE of Zeta Gundam on VHS in the mid-'80s. It took him a lot of searching, wheeling, and dealing, but he did it). Anyway, after catching up about real life stuff, he asked if I'd seen Evangelion. I said no. He said, "Oh, you've GOT to. It's the robot show for thinking people."

So I rented the first volume, and got into it. REALLY into it. Once I caught up to volume eight (episodes 15 and 16), though, then I had to start waiting...which was a pain.

Anyway, the point is that I had no internet connection, so my only connection to the anime world at large was the staff at the comic/video store near me, my friends, and occasionally Animerica magazine. And pretty much all of us loved the series, so I didn't learn about the backlash until later. I was quite puzzled by it at the time, but I'm less so now. The reasons I love the show (its experimentation, the fact that they take pains to show what clinical depression can really be like, the mystical/religious window dressing), is guaranteed to make the people who just want a nice giant robot show angry.

That, and the show's more strenuous fans can be more than a little annoying at times (I know, I'm one of 'em).

These days, I figure Eva, being one of the most well-known and influential anime series ever, doesn't really need me to come to its defense...I can just sit back and let it defend itself way better than I ever could. And I kind of like the fact that a lot of people don't "get it." It means that, like a lot of great art, it's not obvious.

To me, the mystery is not why so many people hate the show, the mystery is how a show so blatantly avant garde ever became so popular in the first place.

ah. flashback time...screen goes wavy and...

well, to cut the long story short, yup i was also swept away by the first wave of evangelion, around 1997. not much of an anime fan yet around that time, but that certainly changed upon watching eva (by a chance suggestion by an acquaintance). and when i say "watching eva", what a painstaking process it was! renting VHS tapes as soon as they become available. waiting weeks (or even months sometimes) in between volumes to complete the series. getting more addicted with each day that passed. I was too engrossed that I didn't even notice that it was that much of a phenomenon until after.

to this day, i hold Eva in the highest regard. i've been though the forum wars, the debates, the endless "kimochi warui" discussions, the praises and the disses. and at the end of it all, i have lumped humanity simply into two categories: those who loved Eva, and those who didn't. my personal thoughts on either category of humans, i'll keep to myself, of course.

[Marzan]

i've been though the forum wars, the debates, the endless "kimochi warui" discussions,

I was present once when 2 serious EVA superfanatics almost came to blows about the interpretation of that phrase I kid you not...

I'm REALLY interested in seeing how Anno will end Rebuild of Evangelion.

[Gubaba]

ah. flashback time...screen goes wavy and...

well, to cut the long story short, yup i was also swept away by the first wave of evangelion, around 1997. not much of an anime fan yet around that time, but that certainly changed upon watching eva (by a chance suggestion by an acquaintance). and when i say "watching eva", what a painstaking process it was! renting VHS tapes as soon as they become available. waiting weeks (or even months sometimes) in between volumes to complete the series. getting more addicted with each day that passed. I was too engrossed that I didn't even notice that it was that much of a phenomenon until after.

to this day, i hold Eva in the highest regard. i've been though the forum wars, the debates, the endless "kimochi warui" discussions, the praises and the disses. and at the end of it all, i have lumped humanity simply into two categories: those who loved Eva, and those who didn't. my personal thoughts on either category of humans, i'll keep to myself, of course.

For some reason, I hate getting into in-depth Eva discussions online...part of it might be due to the fact that someone will almost inevitably come in and say, "Why are you debating about such a sucky show?" and derail the whole thing. Part of it is the fact that so many people come up with such weird and nonsensical ideas (the combo-Rei/Asuka/Misato at the end of EoE being on of the dumbest I've ever heard). And part of it...well, I don't know. But if I want to talk with my friends about what it all "means," or whether the TV ending is the same or different from EoE, that's fine; but I hate getting into it in forums and the like. Even reading the stuff for any length of time makes me a little edgy...which is why while I *have* an account at Evageeks, I rarely use it.

And, as I've said before, you're wrong about the two types of people. REALLY, there are only two types of people in the world: those who believe there are only two types of people in the world, and those who are smart enough to know better.

[Bri]

ah. flashback time...screen goes wavy and...

well, to cut the long story short, yup i was also swept away by the first wave of evangelion, around 1997. not much of an anime fan yet around that time, but that certainly changed upon watching eva (by a chance suggestion by an acquaintance). and when i say "watching eva", what a painstaking process it was! renting VHS tapes as soon as they become available. waiting weeks (or even months sometimes) in between volumes to complete the series. getting more addicted with each day that passed. I was too engrossed that I didn't even notice that it was that much of a phenomenon until after.

Hehe, I know what you mean. The waiting time between tapes was so annoying back then. We got it so much better now with near instantaneous acces to the latest material from Japanese tv. For me in those days anime fandom was mostly an individual thing, closest thing to a forums were the letterpages of the fanzines

In hindsight experiencing NGE alone and slowly was not a disadvantage at all. Got enough time to savor each batch of episodes and to digest them. Tbh I didn't even know the ending was so controversial till later. All I can say is that this show left a lasting impression on me.

The one thing that infuriates me about NGE to this day is that Manga Video got the DVD release of the movies. The Manga Video disk had the most terrible quality. Bought two duds in a row that didn't work at all. The third set finally worked, and that pair gave out 4 months later. To this day the only disks I have that survived are the Hong Kong bootlegs...

[taksraven]

For some reason, I hate getting into in-depth Eva discussions online...part of it might be due to the fact that someone will almost inevitably come in and say, "Why are you debating about such a sucky show?" and derail the whole thing. Part of it is the fact that so many people come up with such weird and nonsensical ideas (the combo-Rei/Asuka/Misato at the end of EoE being on of the dumbest I've ever heard). And part of it...well, I don't know. But if I want to talk with my friends about what it all "means," or whether the TV ending is the same or different from EoE, that's fine; but I hate getting into it in forums and the like. Even reading the stuff for any length of time makes me a little edgy...which is why while I *have* an account at Evageeks, I rarely use it.

And, as I've said before, you're wrong about the two types of people. REALLY, there are only two types of people in the world: those who believe there are only two types of people in the world, and those who are smart enough to know better.

Why are you debating about such a sucky show?? :P

Taksraven

[dreamweaver13]

For some reason, I hate getting into in-depth Eva discussions online...part of it might be due to the fact that someone will almost inevitably come in and say, "Why are you debating about such a sucky show?" and derail the whole thing. Part of it is the fact that so many people come up with such weird and nonsensical ideas (the combo-Rei/Asuka/Misato at the end of EoE being on of the dumbest I've ever heard). And part of it...well, I don't know. But if I want to talk with my friends about what it all "means," or whether the TV ending is the same or different from EoE, that's fine; but I hate getting into it in forums and the like. Even reading the stuff for any length of time makes me a little edgy...which is why while I *have* an account at Evageeks, I rarely use it.

And, as I've said before, you're wrong about the two types of people. REALLY, there are only two types of people in the world: those who believe there are only two types of people in the world, and those who are smart enough to know better.

It was stressful, those days of online discussions. and while i remember them a bit fondly as some kind of rite of passage, no way do i want to go through that again. you can only join discussions like that until you realize that you are not gonna change each other's views anymore.

and with Eva... i have to admit that i'm as narrow-minded as they come, and not smart enough to look beyond it.

Hehe, I know what you mean. The waiting time between tapes was so annoying back then. We got it so much better now with near instantaneous acces to the latest material from Japanese tv. For me in those days anime fandom was mostly an individual thing, closest thing to a forums were the letterpages of the fanzines

In hindsight experiencing NGE alone and slowly was not a disadvantage at all. Got enough time to savor each batch of episodes and to digest them. Tbh I didn't even know the ending was so controversial till later. All I can say is that this show left a lasting impression on me.

I agree. while frustrasting, i would not exchange the experience for anything. whatever wait I endured, magnified my appreciation for the series tenfold.

[Gubaba]

I agree. while frustrasting, i would not exchange the experience for anything. whatever wait I endured, magnified my appreciation for the series tenfold.

Watching...rewatching...trying to suck every bit of marrow out of out each episode...

Especially with that long, long wait after Genesis 0:10. One of my friends finally broke down and got fansubs of the last six episodes. Which was a good thing, as it turned out, since I met an EXTREMELY cute Japanese girl who was a big Eva fan (and who I completely failed to seduce ), and she had videotaped Death and Rebirth when she showed it on cable TV on New Year's Day 1998, and she showed it to me well before ADV released Genesis 0:12 and 0:13.

Unfortunately (or fortunately) she also showed it to me well before EoE came out on video in Japan, so I had three agonizing months to ponder that damn "The Eva series...it's complete!?" cliffhanger ending.

[dreamweaver13]

EXTREMELY cute Japanese girl who was a big Eva fan..

sorry was gonna comment more on your post, but everything else left my brain when i read that line...

EXTREMELY cute Japanese girl who was a big Eva fan... DAMN. my ultimate dream girl. if i had the machine in Weird Science, yup, that's prettty much who would come out.

AND on other news...

anyone here who has been following the NGE: Shinji Ikari Raising Project manga? i went through volumes 1-3 over the weekend, and it was thoroughly enjoyable reading. to see my favorite characters in that light was certainly refreshing. can't wait for vol 4 to come out.

[Marzan]

anyone here who has been following the NGE: Shinji Ikari Raising Project manga? i went through volumes 1-3 over the weekend, and it was thoroughly enjoyable reading. to see my favorite characters in that light was certainly refreshing. can't wait for vol 4 to come out.

Just read volumes one and two a couple of weeks ago and should find time to read three in the next couple of days. While I can say that I like it so far, I have to say that it's so much of an alternate reality that it almost feels not like EVA at all. You've got to admit that having

Yui Ikari alive and kicking is rather unsettling. And it does feel rather strange to have Gendo Ikari as comic relief!

[VFTF1]

That thing in the spoiler tags doesn't sound so bad or so wierd. It sounds similar to what Shinji contemplated in the last episode of the series, where his life was "normal." I always found that part of the episode to be one of my favorites because it deflated the pathos of the series quite self-consciously.

If there's a manga that runs along the same lines - that's great.

Oh - and before I forgot....

Gubaba:

Anyway, after catching up about real life stuff, he asked if I'd seen Evangelion. I said no. He said, "Oh, you've GOT to. It's the robot show for thinking people."

Hm...if Yoko's boobs don't lure you in then I'll try a new method given the above:

Have you watched Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann? No? Oh, you've GOT to. It's the 21st century robot show for thinking people."

Hope that works!

Pete

[dreamweaver13]

That thing in the spoiler tags doesn't sound so bad or so wierd. It sounds similar to what Shinji contemplated in the last episode of the series, where his life was "normal." I always found that part of the episode to be one of my favorites because it deflated the pathos of the series quite self-consciously.

If there's a manga that runs along the same lines - that's great.

Pete, it's exactly that. It's the official continuation of the "alternate world" shinji thought of in the last episode of Eva. and if you loved that part of the series (as did I), you will certainly like the manga. the gang's all here!

marzan, yup, it's very light-hearted and funny. certainly a high school comedy. but i can't help but think that there's still going to be some underlying dark conspiracy by the end of the manga.

and gendo rocks for being comic relief! wait till you read volume 3 and see what he'll be up to!

[eriku]

I have nothing thoughtful to add, but I wanted to say that I finally decided to introduce my wife to NGE this afternoon around 5:30. We watched it straight up until 10:00 with her in full control of the remote, skipping eagerly past the intros and outros. I love my wife.

[VFTF1]

Never let women control the remote! You might as well just have given her access to the Nuclear button!

Pete

[Marzan]

I have nothing thoughtful to add, but I wanted to say that I finally decided to introduce my wife to NGE this afternoon around 5:30. We watched it straight up until 10:00 with her in full control of the remote, skipping eagerly past the intros and outros. I love my wife.

Lucky...

I got a polite stare after 15 minutes and a gentle "It's not really for me honey"...

[VFTF1]

The wierd thing about that (the whole "Girlfriend thinks NGE is not for her" bit, which I get from my girl too), is that when SHE makes me watch a movie of her choice, the movie usually has:

1) Graphic adultery/sex (but usually it's adultery)

2) Graphic murder with sexual motivation

3) Children in psychopathic situations

Seriously... Every time she gets to pick a movie, it's usually titled "Deadly Lust," "Deep Thrust of the Love Knife" or something with double entente and it absolutely must contain lots of sex and lots of grizzly violence. She generally likes psychological thrillers....

Like lately we watched Hole in the Floor, which is all about a 15 year old boy who comes up to stay with some writer as his intern and his wife seduces him while he almost gets murdered by a model who he tried to sleep with...Before that it was a movie about a member of parliament who seduced the fiance of his son, who then saw the two of them having sex and was so shocked that he fell down 10 flights of stairs and broke his neck...Before that it was Lolita (also with Jeremy Irons, who she likes)...Before that it was a movie with Demy Moore in which a guy and his wife decide that she'll prostitute herself to a rich dude so they can buy a house but then of course the rich dude seduces the wife (although the guy does get his money)...Before that it was a movie about a woman who has a steamy affair with a young student and then her husband murders him in a fit of rage and the woman helps her husband bury the body and hides it from the police...

But I'm wierd for watching anime and liking Evangelion

Pete

[eriku]

Lucky...

I got a polite stare after 15 minutes and a gentle "It's not really for me honey"...

I kind of expected the same. She loves anime (we just finished a Bebop and Champloo marathon last month) but I was expecting her to find NGE just too weird (I expect everyone new to the show to find it too weird). On the other hand we're only half way through and the crazy-weird stuff is only just beginning. >_<

[dreamweaver13]

The wierd thing about that (the whole "Girlfriend thinks NGE is not for her" bit, which I get from my girl too), is that when SHE makes me watch a movie of her choice, the movie usually has:

1) Graphic adultery/sex (but usually it's adultery)

2) Graphic murder with sexual motivation

3) Children in psychopathic situations

Seriously... Every time she gets to pick a movie, it's usually titled "Deadly Lust," "Deep Thrust of the Love Knife" or something with double entente and it absolutely must contain lots of sex and lots of grizzly violence. She generally likes psychological thrillers....

Like lately we watched Hole in the Floor, which is all about a 15 year old boy who comes up to stay with some writer as his intern and his wife seduces him while he almost gets murdered by a model who he tried to sleep with...Before that it was a movie about a member of parliament who seduced the fiance of his son, who then saw the two of them having sex and was so shocked that he fell down 10 flights of stairs and broke his neck...Before that it was Lolita (also with Jeremy Irons, who she likes)...Before that it was a movie with Demy Moore in which a guy and his wife decide that she'll prostitute herself to a rich dude so they can buy a house but then of course the rich dude seduces the wife (although the guy does get his money)...Before that it was a movie about a woman who has a steamy affair with a young student and then her husband murders him in a fit of rage and the woman helps her husband bury the body and hides it from the police...

But I'm wierd for watching anime and liking Evangelion

Pete

Ha! Eva trumps all that. it's got them all:

Adultery - Gendo and Dr. Akagi, maybe while Yui was still alive

Sex - Misato and Kaji, 3 weeks' worth, uninterrupted

Graphic Murder - Dr. Akagi killing Rei I, massacre of NERV personnel, death of Asuka, Misato shooting the soldiers, etc...

Children in psychopathic situations - Shinji finding out he almost killed Toji, Shinji watching Rei clones dissolve, Asuka's mind rape

Loli - Gendo and Rei?

Seduction of young ones - umm... Misato?

Seduction of old ones - umm... Asuka?

"Self-help" - Shinji

Cannibalism - Eva 1 eating angel, eva series eating Eva2.

Orgies -- well, instrumentality was kinda one big orgy, right?

[VFTF1]

Yeah, but the thing is - whenever I tell my Misa what characteristics her movie choices consist of, she vehemently denies it, like it's some big surprise to her that there's sex, violence etc....and then she says "so anyways - I bought a new movie for us to watch with Jeremy Irons/Robert Redford (her favorites) called Seduction/Dying for Love/Broken Heart-Broken Bones (I'm paraphrasing)..."

And off we go!

I dunno. I think she just doesn't like super robot battles, or monster battles and so when she saw the first couple minutes of episode 1 - which basically consist of no plot, and just a big monster fighting some helicopters ... she was like "I don't care."

It was really my fault. I should have started her off on episode 2 or something like that - although I can imagine she wouldn't have liked Misato, who never cleans... She WOULD however say "there's a girl for you! Never cleans and drinks bear in the morning!" Meanwhile - I'm sure she would have LOVED Shinji, who was so proper and attentive to cleanliness....

Alas...

Pete

[Marzan]

" Meanwhile - I'm sure she would have LOVED Shinji, who was so proper and attentive to cleanliness....

Alas...

Pete

Whenever someone puts in doubt the credibility of Shinji being a babe magnet in Evangelion one must never forget the effect cleaning up has on the female psyche

[VFTF1]

Good point! I love it when small diversions lead to plot-illumination

So that's why Misato kissed him ... kind of...sub-consiously anyways...

Although...I think Asuka's attraction to Shinji was more remote...that is to say - she is the kind of girl that will grab the nearest guy handy...? If it can't be Kaji...might as well be Shinji-baka...?

Asuka's hard to explain because she doesn't behave like a normal girl should... come to think of it... she is possibly the wierdest character I've ever encountered. It's not on account of her fighting spirit - lots of anime girls have that and there's nothing wrong with it... It's also not on account of her somewhat overbearing "look at how pretty I am!" in your face way of being... again - lots of anime girls like that...

But there's something about her... I think the fact that Kaji doesn't show even the faintest interest in her really pains her - and I don't think it's so much because Kaji is into "older" women (Misato) - because he was with Misato when she was younger too. Kaji is just into Misato mainly... and Misato acts like a "little girl" when she's drunk and admits to him the real reasons for breaking up with him (and Kaji doesn't like her acting like that...so I guess he's into MATURE women - but mature in the sense of character and not necessarily age)...

Asuka is...hm...Asuka is like Shinji actually...Kind of like Shinji lacks experience with women...so Asuka lacks experience with men...the difference is that Asuka doesn't show it as easily - she's full of bluster and stuff...but in the end - as Shinji says when lying next to her at night "you're just a kid too."

In fact - Shinji says that to a lot of people - to Misato in episode 1 for instance...

Hm...

Interesting...

Pete

[Marzan]

Asuka is...hm...Asuka is like Shinji actually...Kind of like Shinji lacks experience with women...so Asuka lacks experience with men...the difference is that Asuka doesn't show it as easily - she's full of bluster and stuff...but in the end - as Shinji says when lying next to her at night "you're just a kid too."

In fact - Shinji says that to a lot of people - to Misato in episode 1 for instance...

Hm...

Interesting...

Pete

One could argue that Shinji is no more "a kid" than almost any character on NGE. By "a kid" I mean a relative emotional inmaturity on some level. I think that that's part of the genius of the story. You start out by thinking that Shinji is this scared, insecure kid in a world of tough, resolute people and by the end of the show you realize that almost everyone was as or even more emotionally stunted than he was.

Regarding Asuka, she is a rather fascinating creature and its no coincidence that she's such an emblematic figure in the anime community. I mean she's got a whole lot more going on behind the scenes than your classic tsundere character. Just like Shinji you think you have her all worked out and at the end you really know little about her.