Shao Pai Loon!

[EXO]

Lynn Kaifun was a self-righteous hypocrite. And a coward who didn't take responsibilty for his actions. Too bad a Regult didn't step on him.

Or a U.N. forces Spartan. That would have been poetic justice right there.

The military provided for him while he was on the Macross. Military personnel bled for the likes of him. The military funded the movie he agreed to star in (and made him some money and bought him quiet a bit of fame).

And yet, his rants got progressively more venomous. Starting with the usual peacenik stuff and evolving into pure hate directed at the military(and military personnel).

And his true colors? A self-centered, materialistic yahoo who mistreated Minmay, disdained her fanbase, worshipped money, and became an aggressive drunk. At least Minmay,selfish as she was, understood the situation they were in during the post-war period. That people were trying to survive and rebuild. That money wasn't the most important thing during those days. Kaifun, despite his high-minded rhetoric in the past, didn't see it that way.

I found him to be as dispicable as Gorg Bodolzaa or Kamjin Kravshera. Probably more so, since the two Zentraedi villans were up-front with their actions. Kaifun was the type for "puttin' on airs", as they say here at home.

uhmmm.... Eeeee...shuess!!!

[bsu legato]

What kind of extras do you think are on the SPL DVD? Did they just release a bare bones edition, then double dip it a few months later with a 3-disc "Protoculture Edition?"

[Hurin]

What kind of extras do you think are on the SPL DVD? Did they just release a bare bones edition, then double dip it a few months later with a 3-disc "Protoculture Edition?"

If your current title weren't such a classic around here, I think I'd change yours to: "Yes, he is mocking you."

H

[EXO]

If your current title weren't such a classic around here, I think I'd change yours to: "Yes, he is mocking you."

H

I change yours to Captain obvious...

[Fortress_Maximus]

Me too man, and the little bit of Japanese porn I saw was STRANGE!!!!!.

I mean....really strange....

Then you might want to do more research there is almost something for every taste. As for what might've been on the Macross since we are so utterly out on this one, I am sure for some kids, otakus and the like they had some crap they brought from Earth or that was salvaged from Earth that was floating in space. For everyone else, there must've been religions, cults, and/or other addictions that kept them busy or somewhat numbed during the time of war.

[wldr]

Actually Kung Fu Hustle was made for closer to $10 million maybe even less. Kung Fu Hustle 2 will be close to $25 million.

Anyway....with no big named talent other than Minmay there wouldn't be very much in the way of star costs. Yes, she was the biggest star on the ship but really that's not worth much. I also assume that since it's the future there are cheaper ways of doing effects and crap. Hell maybe Kaifun fired real lasers out of his hand so they didn't have to add it in post. Marketing really wouldn't be much of a problem so that would keep costs low.

I say it's the combo of propaganda and the thought of showing the movie to Earth audiences that justified the making of it. After all they all thought they were gonna be let off once they got to Earth.

They could have had one sure way of bringing in the cash, at least from the military on board the ship. All they would have had to do is do an edit of the original film and instead of having "Kaifun fire lasers from his hands", have the new edited version have him being hit with them instead! No doubt after most of the military had seen and heard all of his anti-military ranting, if an edit was promoted with this kind of change, all of them would want to see it again and again just to see him getting blasted instead of being the hero of the film. If I was one of them, I certainly would like seeing him take a good one on the chin even if is was just in a movie.

[JB0]

They could have had one sure way of bringing in the cash, at least from the military on board the ship. All they would have had to do is do an edit of the original film and instead of having "Kaifun fire lasers from his hands", have the new edited version have him being hit with them instead! No doubt after most of the military had seen and heard all of his anti-military ranting, if an edit was promoted with this kind of change, all of them would want to see it again and again just to see him getting blasted instead of being the hero of the film. If I was one of them, I certainly would like seeing him take a good one on the chin even if is was just in a movie.

But would they have a bunch of people running around wearing t-shirts that said "Kaifun shot first" after the edit?

[SpacyAce2012]

uhmmm.... Eeeee...shuess!!!

Uhmmm...no.

No issues here. Just expressing my dislike of a character meant to be disliked. Since his name came up in regards to Shao Pai Loon...............................

Occasional Kaifun-bashing is one of my many little quirks that pop up in Macross related discussions.

[Keith]

who's THEY? We are talking about the ship and the people that made the movie. Not the outside government.

U.N. Spacy brass.

[wldr]

But would they have a bunch of people running around wearing t-shirts that said "Kaifun shot first" after the edit?

I hadn't realy thought about the possability of selling t-shirts aftewards, but hey why not. Anything that makes fun of Kaifun, and or his general self rightous attitude would probably sell. Kaifun seems to enjoy being the center of attention, so he may actually enjoy having a lot of people hate him. He certainly doesn't seem to mind actively trying to anger everyone in a military uniform with his opinion that if one side puts down their weapons, that the other side will just stop attacking, which makes absolutely no sence given how the war started in the first place. I think anything points out Kaifun as the hipocrite that he is would be seen as very funny and would sell like hotcakes!

Edited January 13, 2007 by wldr

[JB0]

He certainly doesn't seem to mind actively trying to anger everyone in a military uniform with his opinion that if one side puts down their weapons, that the other side will just stop attacking, which makes absolutely no sence given how the war started in the first place.

TECHNICALLY, the humans shot first.

Remember, the Zentradi were just looking for the Supervision Army when the Macross' cannon fired on them. Granted it was an automatic attack that they were trying to abort, but the Zentradi didn't know that.

[jigahus]

I'm surprised noone has been a macross product whore and say they love Kaifun.

[wldr]

TECHNICALLY, the humans shot first.

Remember, the Zentradi were just looking for the Supervision Army when the Macross' cannon fired on them. Granted it was an automatic attack that they were trying to abort, but the Zentradi didn't know that.

That is true, but if the Macross' cannon did not fire, I don't think the Zentrdi would have left the humans on earth in peace. After all they had no concept of peace in there society untill the interacted with the Macross personel. So I don't think anything would have changed if the bobby trap never went off.

[sketchley]

They might have confirmed that all of the ASS-1's crew were dead, and left orbit, or destroyed the ship (and South Ataria Island in the process) and left.

If I'm not mistaken, the Zentraedi, or at least Buritai's fleet had orders to not interfere with the Protoculture. The fact that humans had commandeered and reconstructed the ASS-1 was what prompted them to not destroy the ship outright, instead following it around the solar system.

[wldr]

They might have confirmed that all of the ASS-1's crew were dead, and left orbit, or destroyed the ship (and South Ataria Island in the process) and left.

If I'm not mistaken, the Zentraedi, or at least Buritai's fleet had orders to not interfere with the Protoculture. The fact that humans had commandeered and reconstructed the ASS-1 was what prompted them to not destroy the ship outright, instead following it around the solar system.

If they had done that the Earth forces may well have then attacked them, on purpose this time, and started space war I anyway. And if I am not mistaken, the humans were not immediately identified as the protoculture. In that case those orders would be meeningless until that discovery was made, would they not?

Edited January 14, 2007 by wldr

[JB0]

If they had done that the Earth forces may well have then attacked them, on purpose this time, and started space war I anyway. And if I am not mistaken, the humans were not immediately identified as the protoculture. In that case those orders would be meeningless until that discovery was made, would they not?

Yah. The "protoculture" identification happened when Exedol was watching some battle footage, and saw some poor squishie get knocked off a building by a Reguld.

Earth might've been attacked anyways because it looked like we were allied with the Supervision Army.

But only sort of, since the Macross wasn't rebuilt to SA specs.

Lacking any other evidence of SA alliance, they probably woulda leveled the island and wandered off, in the interests of resource conservation.

Bodol didn't issue the orders to sterilize the planet until AFTER cultural contamination had become widespread in Britai's fleet, and he delayed those even after finding out contamination had occurred AND was affecting morale.

Britai had better things to do than start a war with underdeveloped cavemen. But underdeveloped cavemen with nukes, reverse-engineered overtech, AND repair facilities... that's another story.

[EXO]

you guys might want to check out the topic at hand here.

[Toonces]

I always figured it was just something very low budget. The "special effects" we saw in the film could have been, at least in theroy, very easy, as well as cheap, to do.

It could also have been a morale effort for the survivors/crew.

[wldr]

I always figured it was just something very low budget. The "special effects" we saw in the film could have been, at least in theroy, very easy, as well as cheap, to do.

It could also have been a morale effort for the survivors/crew.

It most definitely was a morale booster effort. They were trying to do anything they could think of to distract the general populous from the war going on around them, for at least an hour or two anyway. Having the newly crowned Miss Macross star in it was sure to draw in some attention from those on board the ship.

[Mephistopheles]

How is a film that isn't about any real world event or similar to any real world event propaganda?

[JB0]

How is a film that isn't about any real world event or similar to any real world event propaganda?

It was a movie about humans kicking giant ass.

Meanwhile, out in the "real world"...

Giants are launching constant attacks against the humans, hindering their efforts to go home, and killing them left and right.

Edited January 24, 2007 by JB0

[Zinjo]

If I'm not mistaken, the Zentraedi, or at least Buritai's fleet had orders to not interfere with the Protoculture. The fact that humans had commandeered and reconstructed the ASS-1 was what prompted them to not destroy the ship outright, instead following it around the solar system.

So how does this fact harmonize with the "updated" chronology explaining the PD and how the demise of the PC was due to the fact that the prohibitions put on the Zents regarding microns were removed during the PD war?

That has always bugged me...

Logically, there were no restrictions on attacking microns after the PD war, thus why would they suddenly have that restriction restored after several hundred millenia with the Macross (a known SA warship, containing possible micron SA personnel)?

Granted they wanted the reaction weaponry, however they chased that little ship for months before Bodolza lost all patience and ordered the system wiped out.

[sketchley]

Wasn't it (someone correct me if I'm wrong) a combination of getting the lost technology of reaction weapons, and micronions rebuilding and restoring the ASS-1 that kept them chasing the SDF-1 while they tried to figure them out. At the same time, wasn't only after Zentraedi personnel were being contaminated with micron culture, that Bodolza ordered the incineration of Earth?

[JB0]

Wasn't it (someone correct me if I'm wrong) a combination of getting the lost technology of reaction weapons, and micronions rebuilding and restoring the ASS-1 that kept them chasing the SDF-1 while they tried to figure them out. At the same time, wasn't only after Zentraedi personnel were being contaminated with micron culture, that Bodolza ordered the incineration of Earth?

Yah.

It's also worth noting that, at least in the Animeigo subs, the zentradi weren't under actual orders not to interfere with the miclones. Exedol frames it as the moral of an old legend.

It's not clear if the legend in question was left over the original protoculture programming or if it arose later, after an ancient zentradi fleet was exposed to culture and contaminated. Both origins work in the current continuity.

[VFTF1]

Three points:

"money for the most part, especially for a movie would be irrelivant on the Macross" - This sentiment, in my view, is not wholly correct, as the Zendrati Ambassador notices that things are bought and sold for money when he first comes aboard the Macross.

As for the kung fu movie, first of all - we never really got to see the whole thing, so who knows how good/bad it was...

I tend to interpret what we see in Macross as snippets of a larger picture that we don't see. I think that this is one of the strengths of the anime - namely that even though they have to fit this epic story into a limited space with a limited animation budget, they manage to make it a great story by inserting things which hint at a much larger and more complex history.

So, Shao Pai Lon does not necessarily have to be a bad movie just because what we saw of it was sub par... the Zendradi clearly thought Kaifun's character had super powers and there must have been more to the movie to make them think that than the brief missive we were shown.

I think you need to have some imaginative leeway when viewing Macross and can't just go by what you see - since that would mean that car and people don't move a lot of the time when they're supposed to be moving...

That said - I agree with people that the film had clear propaganda usage - but I'll remind you that Minmey, bimbo that she seemingly was, had the bright idea that the Military would HELP her aunt/uncle open a restaurant because they would realize its' propaganda value...

So maybe Minmay wasn't that dumb - it was just an act she put on... and it worked. In reality, she was well aware of howto play the military and establish herself.

just some thoughts - feel free to disagree and point to my blatant errors and misjudgments

VFTF1

[wldr]

j

ust some thoughts - feel free to disagree and point to my blatant errors and misjudgments smile.gif

VFTF1

Why? Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, despite what some might say.

[sketchley]

I fully agree with you, VFTF1, especially:

I tend to interpret what we see in Macross as snippets of a larger picture that we don't see. I think that this is one of the strengths of the anime - namely that even though they have to fit this epic story into a limited space with a limited animation budget, they manage to make it a great story by inserting things which hint at a much larger and more complex history.

Though, I don't limit it to anime, and SDF:M in particular. This is an important aspect of all entertainment - give highlights and important moments of a story, just enough to leave the viewers wanting more, but at the same time, developing as much of a well-rounded view of the situation inside of the story as is possible.

The master of this is George Lucas, especially when it comes to action scenes: we never see the same circumstances or equipment used twice - and for those of us with the means, we want to go back and relive those moments, as they only come once. Even the lightsaber duels are wildly different throughout the six movies (and they are rarely shown more than once per movie.)

DYRL is another good example of this - the entire SDF:M series is condenced into a movie. Sure, some things get lost in the process, but the main point of DYRL is to act as a reminder of the TV series, cased in better animation. It, too, follows the technique of having wildly different action scenes.

Simply for comparison purposes: "Die Another Day" is an example of repetative action scenes: the sword fight early in the movie was great IMHO the best sequence in the entire movie as I actually felt JB would be harmed, redoing the sword fight on the burning airplane at the end of the movie (despite being between the two female leads), was not good, and actually hurt the movie, IMHO. There were also far too many scenes of "men firing guns at each other". Watching that movie made me yearn for the creativity in "Goldeneye" - probably the best being the exploding pen gimmick. But this is all for another discussion in a different forum.

Edited February 20, 2007 by sketchley

[VFTF1]

"Why? Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, despite what some might say."

Yeah - but I am a person who usually has strong opinions because I'm impulsive, but (in the case of Macross), not a lot of good knowledge since I've just seen the series once, so I'm prone to make strong arguments with weak evidence Ergo - best to always attach a sweet ending so no one thinks I'm acting like a know it all when I don't know much

VFTF1