MGS3 first impressions

[Gunbuster]

Got to the signing at 5pm and there was a huge line already I heard some people stayed overnight from Monday

[Gunbuster]

The front door

[Gunbuster]

I got to shake the hand of the Legendary game designer Hideo Kojima, I hope some of his greatness rub off on me

[Gunbuster]

Any finally got my Metal Gear Solid box signed by Kojima and Yoji Shinkawa

[Keith]

Wait, what's in the premium package..! And did you ask him about Snatcher? He needs to know we want a Snatcher remake!!!!

[Skull Leader]

MMMMmmmmm, Snatcher....

[Vince]

I bought it tonight and have not been able to play it yet... my wife saw it and started playing it while I made my dinner.

... she is still playing... 

From what I have seen and overheard from the living room the game seems very long on cutscenes and dialogue like MGS2... then again I am still waiting my turn to play, I've only played the demo hands on.

Also the lack of a widescreen mode for us HDTV players is yet again disappointing... GTA is onboard with it why is MGS still behind?

You mean to tell me that I can't utilize all 70 inches of my TV? DAMN THEM!!

I played it full 16:9, don't think it support HD though

[JsARCLIGHT]

How did you get a true 16:9 widescreen mode? The game does not have one. Or did you just set your TV to stretch the signal?

Edit: and no game supports HD... yet. The best you can hope for is 480p Progressive which only like ten games support.

Edited December 1, 2004 by JsARCLIGHT

[Gunbuster]

Wait, what's in the premium package..! And did you ask him about Snatcher? He needs to know we want a Snatcher remake!!!!

The box has the usual T-shirt, art book, Soundtrack CD, dog tags, and the game, etc..

I was unable to talk to Kojima as they rush people in and out for the signing, I only was able to shake his hand and thank him in japanese.

I wished fellow members could have join us, I would have hold your place in line

[wolfx]

I'm goin pretty slow on this game.

I just reached the part where Snake meets eva. *hubba hubba* Sniper wolf's momma?

For one ...david hayter IMHO is lame. He's trying too hard trying to sounding "macho". I'm not sure if this was intentional or not considering the game is 50% bashing otakus. (military and movie otakus so far...)

Snake is a wuss for another. He is so torn between himself and his "love" for the boss. I would consider Snake as a no-nonsense guy that would "shoot 1st talk later" kinda guy. Or at least a soldier who lacks such "sentimental" emotions.

And I haven't played that far but from a friend who clocked the game, he says "Snake cries alot in this game".

I'm like.....riiiiiiiiiighhhhtttt......I blame the mullet.

[Gunbuster]

I'm like.....riiiiiiiiiighhhhtttt......I blame the mullet.

LOL! Good one. About Snake, this MGS3 should have been called MGSZero as all the event happens before the First MGS. So Snake isn't the no BS guy we know yet

[JsARCLIGHT]

It was my understanding that this "Snake" in MGS3 was not "the" Snake from 1 and 2... isn't he someone else?

Mind you I have not played the game much at all, my wife is playing it and I'm playing HL2 so I don't know much of the story of MGS3 to know if the "rumor" that this snake is indeed Big Boss and not "the" Snake from 1 and 2 is true or not. If he is indeed Big Boss then that makes a whole different person from "the" snake and would explain the difference in personality, if one does indeed exsist. And even if "the" Snake is a clone of this man in this game that does not mean they would have identical personalities either.

I just confused myself.

[Gunbuster]

Nooo!! you're not suppose to talk about that wait a sec..I might have said too much there..I will not say anymore as it will spoil it The game is awesome..all the way to the end

Edited December 2, 2004 by Gunbuster

[RichterX]

oh come on, I have not played the game but I saw a trailer and it was pretty obvious that that Snake is Big Boss

[wolfx]

oh come on, I have not played the game but I saw a trailer and it was pretty obvious that that Snake is Big Boss

Yeap....everyone knows that. But still....i can't imagine THE BIG BOSS much less Snake to be a wussy like this Snake is. Gosh.

I wonder who decided to clone him.....

Question to the gun freaks: During the slow mo when Boss shoots her SMG at the drop pod, the bullets were like "rotating" (not spinning) as they were fired in slow mo. I heard this was the case in AK-47s and some guns. What's the point of this?

[Jolly Rogers]

  oh come on, I have not played the game but I saw a trailer and it was pretty obvious that that Snake is Big Boss 

Yeap....everyone knows that.

I seem to remember people here were speculating and debating that the game did not take place in the 60s because it was MGS "3" not "0" before the game came out.

[Skull Leader]

Shortly before the other MGS3 thread was locked, VF-19pilot asked about MG2:SS, for those who haven't played it.

It is 1999, a small nation in the middle east called "Zanzibar Land" aquired nuclear capablity. It raids "Nuclear Arms for Disposal Storage" sites around the world and robs weapons that were still not disposed of, making it a nuclear-armed nation, and begins non-discriminate invasions of nearby countries.

Then, a Czech biologist named Kio Marv invents a micro specimen - "OILIX", which recreates high-quality oil. Basically solving the world's natural resource crisis.

Dr. Marv is kidnapped by Zanzibarian radicals on his trip from Czechoslovakia to America. Zanzibar Land is trying to gain its military superiority through nuclear arms and "OILIX".

A top-secret order goes down to Solid Snake, former Foxhounder :"Single-handedly sneak into Zanzibar Land, and rescue Dr. Kio Marv!" Snake must now rescue the doctor and take out a new, more poweful Metal Gear. Snake single-hendedly sneaks into Zanzibar and runs across and old "friend." Big Boss, having survived the "Outer Heaven" incident, is in command in Zanzibar and he has brought a new Metal Gear with him.

Throughout the mission, snake works hand in hand with a war correspondant/journalist named Holly White (I.E., MG2:SS version of "Jennifer", "Meryl", "Eva") and learns that Big Boss has taken custody of several orphans (whose parents were victims of violent conflicts across the globe) in an attempt to raise them as children of the revolution.

Towards the end of the mission, Solid Snake encounters Grey Fox, who has since defected from Foxhound and decided to follow "the battle" and work for Big Boss. Snake and Fox have a serious discussion about how they do not hate one another, but must fight anyway. With all worries about friendship or ill will thrown aside, the two battle it out in the middle of a minefield... Solid Snake immerges victorious, Frank Hunter/Grey Fox presumably dies.

Snake finally encounters Big Boss and the newtype Metal Gear. Big Boss, this time showing fear from Solid Snake leaves him to deal with Metal Gear and the remaining Zanzibarian troops. Solid Snake destroys the Metal Gear and narrowly escapes the exploding Zanzibarian fortress via helecopter with Holly White.

After this, Snake goes into hiding in the Alaskan wilderness, which is where Campbell finds him in the prologue of Metal Gear: Solid.

Edited December 2, 2004 by Skull Leader

[Skull Leader]

MG2:SS was innovative in a lot of ways for the metal gear series. It was the first to provide enemy soldiers with a true "field of vision", they responded to noise like walking on certain kinds of floors or hitting a wall. It also featured rations that could be used to cure poison or lure certain targets out. MG2SS also was the first game to feature the soliton radar system (with a range of nine screens, which I think in overall terms was far wider than the range in later games). This is also the game which introduced Snake's ability to duck and crawl (and hide under things)

Also, evidently someone at Konami began to realize how much of a hassle it was to switch between 8 different keycards when you reached an unfamiliar door... because in this game you eventually get get multi-passes ("Leeloo Dallas, mulipass!" sorry, couldn't resist) that work with cards 1-3, 4-6, etc, but only after you have aquired the original three cards that multi-pass works for. Memory-shape alloy was employed in this game for a key also.

The faces of Solid Snake and Roy Campbell in the radio transmissions (not a first, actually... in the original MSX Metal gear, there was an image of Solid Snake's face next to the transciever) bear a strong resemblance to "Rambo" and "Colonel Troutman" of the "Rambo" series fame.

Edited December 2, 2004 by Skull Leader

[Skull Leader]

Here is what Snake and the Colonel looked like in the radio conversations:

[Skull Leader]

and just for "gits and shiggles", here is the radio screen from the original MSX Metal Gear (see the bottom)

It seems like every time we wind up discussing Metal Gear here, we usually wind up with someone asking what the differences were between the MSX Metal Gear and the Nintendo version... here we go...

MSX Version

- Darker, more military drab color pallete (admittedly not very exciting)

- Snake enters "Outer Heaven" by water. He's already in the complex at the beginning of the game (I.E. the pathway to the complex is not present)

- Building layout is different in some ways

- In-game contacts are members of a resistance movement within "Outer Heaven"

- The "Parachute" item is in the game (There is a segment that requires Snake to do a base-jump)

- Transciever scene includes an image of Snake's face

- You fight a Hind D

- You fight the Metal Gear

- There is only 1 piece of background music (it's the same as the music played on the VR missions of MGS), although the alert music and the boss music is the same as the NES version

- Game had a built-in save function

NES Version

- Brighter color pallette, added a little more diversity so the game didn't look so drab (Snake wears a brigher shade of green, the enemy soldiers are now more than one color)

- Snake HALOs into the forests near "Outer Heaven" and sneaks in (the pathway to "outerheaven" was designed specifically for the NES version)

- Building layout is slightly different from the MSX version

- In-game contacts are members of Foxhound (I.E. the others that HALO into Outer Heaven with you)

- You fight a pair of "Grenade Brothers" (or some such name) on top of a building instead of a Hind (and honestly, they were HARDER to kill than the Hind!)

- You fight a....... super computer? Where the hell is the Metal Gear!? The computer doesn't even fight back....

- Background music was more diverse (with "indoor" and "outdoor" music in addition to the "alert" music.

- The Story was altered so say that an evil general named "Vernon Cataffy" was the one running "Outer Heaven" (until it's discovered that Big Boss is running it)

- Game had a password function (and who else here besides me thought one of the worst forms of torture you could inflict on someone was to make them type in a badly-written down Metal Gear password???) I HATED the password function on this game!

- The picture of Solid Snake on the cover of the game was influenced by a publicity photo of Michael Biehn in his "Colonial Space Marine" armor from the movie "Aliens"

In terms of gameplay, they're pretty much identical. The NES version is a little easier to look at and listen to, but the MSX version DID feature the Hind (which until MGS2 was one of the trademarks of a MG game) as well as the actual Metal Gear (which you never actually see in the US version). I prefer the original MSX version, but that's purely for aesthetic reasons (I'm a Metal Gear Purist!) other than an item or two, the two different bosses I mentioned, you're not missing much one way or the other. The MSX version does seem, on the whole, to be slightly more difficult.

And that's your crash course on the differences between the two!

Edited December 2, 2004 by Skull Leader

[JsARCLIGHT]

Question to the gun freaks: During the slow mo when Boss shoots her SMG at the drop pod, the bullets were like "rotating" (not spinning) as they were fired in slow mo. I heard this was the case in AK-47s and some guns. What's the point of this?

Having not reached that point in the game yet I'm too sure what you are describing... do you mean the bullets fired from the weapon do not have a normal spin or "spiral" to them when they exit the barrel? Pretty much all modern weapons have rifled barrels that force the bullet fired from the weapon to "spiral" like a football in flight (caused by the rifling in the barrel), this stabilizes the bullet and allows it to reach much longer distances with greater accuracy. Olde Tyme muzzle-loaders and flintlocks did not have rifling (thus where we get the term "rifle" for modern longarms) and when they would fire their round bullets the bullet could roll any way it wanted upon exit from the barrel... which led to very short ranges and low accuracy.

If the bullets leaving the character's gun tumbled, meaning an erratic trajectory that is definately not a nice clean spiral then that is an undesireable side effect of something being wrong with the weapon. There are three reasons why a bullet tumbles after leaving the barrel: 1) The bullet's base is cockeyed and gas escapes off one side before the other as it leaves the muzzle. 2) Something really unbalanced the bullet as it was going down the bore. After exiting the muzzle, it tumbles. Or 3) The bullet is spinning way too slow as it leaves the muzzle; it won't gyroscopically stablize. Or it's spinning too fast; its natural unbalance creates enough centrifugal force to cause it to tumble. All these situations are bad for bullet performance and all contribute to reduced range and accuracy.

Now tumble after impact of the bullet is another story. You heard right about the AK-47 rounds, they have a special cavaty in the nose of the bullet that causes erratic expansion of the round when it hits a soft target which causes the bullet to tumble through the target rather than create a straight clean shot through it. The only way to describe this (without getting too grizzly) is to imagine a bowling pin going into a big cube of jello. If the bowling pin has a strong spiral on it it will just slice cleanly through the jello... but if it tumbles upon impact it hacks and tears it's way through the jello creating a huge gash as it does.

So tumbling bullets in flight = bad, tumbling after impact on a target = good (?).

[wolfx]

That's abit long to quote...but yeah this in response to jsarclight:

I meant it like, normally bullets get launched out of the barrel, the bullet itself flies straight to the target with a "spin". But in that slow mo scene, the bullets kinda....urmmm....spun on the other axis. Like the front of the bullet as it comes out rotates so the back is facing the target and it rotates some more till it hits the target. I'm not surte how to describe this.

If this is what you call "tumbling" ...i guess this could be it....

[JsARCLIGHT]

Um.... oooookaaaaay....

That sounds more or less like the people that made the game don't know how bullets work.

[wolfx]

Um.... oooookaaaaay....

That sounds more or less like the people that made the game don't know how bullets work.

That or i have mistaken.

Anyone else can confirm?

[JsARCLIGHT]

There is also a good possibility that the game creators took a ton of "artistic license" with that scene to make it more menacing or appear more action packed by giving the bullets a lot of motion. A spiraling bullet in slow motion is not all that interesting and it does not have a good degree of motion on it other than a twist and a very straight path of travel.

This is going to be totally ass of me to even suggest this but could you be talking about the spent casings popping out of the action and not the bullets? Casings can spin in all manner of way when that ejector lets go of them.

[KingNor]

so does anyone know yet...

is snake really wolverine?

[Jemstone]

so does anyone know yet...

is snake really wolverine?

Most likely in the future if things keep going like they are.

[Skull Leader]

There is also a good possibility that the game creators took a ton of "artistic license" with that scene to make it more menacing or appear more action packed by giving the bullets a lot of motion. A spiraling bullet in slow motion is not all that interesting and it does not have a good degree of motion on it other than a twist and a very straight path of travel.

This is going to be totally ass of me to even suggest this but could you be talking about the spent casings popping out of the action and not the bullets? Casings can spin in all manner of way when that ejector lets go of them.

Js, he means basically that the bullets are flipping end over end after the come out of the barrel. They do not spin in the typical way at all. The only other thing I could think of is that maybe the barrel has a smooth bore as opposed to a grooved one? It's a very short-barrel weapon and I certainly don't think it was designed to be accurate at longer ranges. Still, I have never seen another gun do something like this and they certainly went out of their way to make it appear normal.

[Gunbuster]

I'm so jealous!!!

PAL version of Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater will include an all-new Duel Mode, one that allows players to go through the game’s Boss Fights independently, as well a Demo Theater that shows off the game’s link sequences in order. This comes on top of an number of other PAL-exclusive features that have yet-to-be revealed.

[JsARCLIGHT]

Js, he means basically that the bullets are flipping end over end after the come out of the barrel. They do not spin in the typical way at all. The only other thing I could think of is that maybe the barrel has a smooth bore as opposed to a grooved one? It's a very short-barrel weapon and I certainly don't think it was designed to be accurate at longer ranges. Still, I have never seen another gun do something like this and they certainly went out of their way to make it appear normal.

OK, then it sounds like they took some artistic license to "spice up" the bullet action. Not even a smooth bore weapon would produce end over end travel unless condition #1 was in effect (see my first post for this) of the tumble rule... and even then it would have to be in just the right spot to produce that effect. It's funny really how producing an error like that in a bullet is very difficult, especially doing it over and over again.

As for the shorter barrel issue a shorter rifled barrel (as in a handgun or SMG) just does not have the capacity to "spin up" the bullet as much as a longer barrel does. All it really means is the accuracy is much lower as well as the range of the bullet. Speaking from the realm of physics, the forces and concepts at work in a shorter barrel are exactly the same as they are in a longer barrel and in flight tumble would only occur in those strange circomstances stated earlier.

Suffice this to say bullets tumbling in flight are not common and almost all of the time are not a desired effect and they actually pose less lethality on average than a nice straight rifled shot.

[Jolly Rogers]

I'm so jealous!!!

PAL version of Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater will include an all-new Duel Mode, one that allows players to go through the game’s Boss Fights independently, as well a Demo Theater that shows off the game’s link sequences in order. This comes on top of an number of other PAL-exclusive features that have yet-to-be revealed.

Knowing Konami, they'll probably port back these features when MGS3 comes out as a Greatest Hits title. They did the same thing with the Restless Dream/Director's Cut version of Silent Hill 2.

[Skull Leader]

Js, he means basically that the bullets are flipping end over end after the come out of the barrel. They do not spin in the typical way at all. The only other thing I could think of is that maybe the barrel has a smooth bore as opposed to a grooved one? It's a very short-barrel weapon and I certainly don't think it was designed to be accurate at longer ranges. Still, I have never seen another gun do something like this and they certainly went out of their way to make it appear normal.

OK, then it sounds like they took some artistic license to "spice up" the bullet action. Not even a smooth bore weapon would produce end over end travel unless condition #1 was in effect (see my first post for this) of the tumble rule... and even then it would have to be in just the right spot to produce that effect. It's funny really how producing an error like that in a bullet is very difficult, especially doing it over and over again.

As for the shorter barrel issue a shorter rifled barrel (as in a handgun or SMG) just does not have the capacity to "spin up" the bullet as much as a longer barrel does. All it really means is the accuracy is much lower as well as the range of the bullet. Speaking from the realm of physics, the forces and concepts at work in a shorter barrel are exactly the same as they are in a longer barrel and in flight tumble would only occur in those strange circomstances stated earlier.

Suffice this to say bullets tumbling in flight are not common and almost all of the time are not a desired effect and they actually pose less lethality on average than a nice straight rifled shot.

I see... maybe a design feature of the gun to produce more collateral damage? Either way, to my eye it would appear that beyond anything other than really close range, the worst you could do with the gun is piss someone off, or "The Boss" needs to get her gun checked out

[KingNor]

it seems really odd that they'd showcase this with out there being a good reason. what kind of gun is this "the boss" using?

if its a colt .45 those are pretty well known for their tumbling bullets arn't they?

[Shmitty]

Ok, if you guys want to see another little 'joke' after you get out of the interrogation room, don't take the transmitter out. There will be a joke scene in the cave with EVA, it's pretty funny.

[wolfx]

it seems really odd that they'd showcase this with out there being a good reason. what kind of gun is this "the boss" using?

if its a colt .45 those are pretty well known for their tumbling bullets arn't they?

It was some kinda SMG with a double-capacity magazine. It doesn't look like anything I've seen before because of the strange magazine. Maybe its a TMP.