MGS3 first impressions

[Duke Togo]

I officially suck at this game. I can't get past the 4th or 5th part of the opening area. I could probably sit down and blow through MGS without any maps or guides in a few hours. MGS2 wouldn't be much more difficult for me.

I just can't work with this game. The controls just seem too sloppy for me, and I hate first person shooters. I am just gonna have to put this game down for a month or two, give it a fresh start in February.

[Gunbuster]

Another easter egg: There is a sequence where a person has to follow you, put that person to sleep and see happen

[RangerKarl]

it seems really odd that they'd showcase this with out there being a good reason.  what kind of gun is this "the boss" using?

if its a colt .45 those are pretty well known for their tumbling bullets arn't they?

It was some kinda SMG with a double-capacity magazine. It doesn't look like anything I've seen before because of the strange magazine. Maybe its a TMP.

According to Sigint it was a cut-down XM16 with a C-Mag. Think XM177 with a 100 round clip on the bottom.

[wolfx]

I officially suck at this game. I can't get past the 4th or 5th part of the opening area. I could probably sit down and blow through MGS without any maps or guides in a few hours. MGS2 wouldn't be much more difficult for me.

I just can't work with this game. The controls just seem too sloppy for me, and I hate first person shooters. I am just gonna have to put this game down for a month or two, give it a fresh start in February.

Strangely, although i'm all for stealth, I feel going rambo through the missions were much easier than MGS 1 and 2. I prefer stealth for the sense of "profesionalism" and all....but after awhile i get tired of sneaking and just take my shotgun gunning everyone down and throwing grenades from behind trees. Getting shot at won't take that much damage either. (this is normal mode).

Rangerkarl: Bah...silly of me for not consulting Sigint. >_<

[JsARCLIGHT]

According to Sigint it was a cut-down XM16 with a C-Mag. Think XM177 with a 100 round clip on the bottom.

In that case it might be this little bugger. This is a CAR15, the very first "shorty" M16 made before Vietnam. It was the great granddaddy of the XM177. These weapons still have the same operational function of their bigger counterparts and the AR15 family does not tumble bullets in flight, only after the bullet strikes.

The tumbling bullets in MGS3 are artistic license at best and terribly wrong at worst. Not the first time I've seen non-gun / non-military people make a "mistake" like that... either for dramatic effect or because they just did not know how the real weapon works.

But enough of this... let's move on to different topics and just leave bullets tumbling in flight in the "does not happen deliberately" with this type of weapon collumn for now.

[wolfx]

The tumbling bullets in MGS3 are artistic license at best and terribly wrong at worst. Not the first time I've seen non-gun / non-military people make a "mistake" like that... either for dramatic effect or because they just did not know how the real weapon works.

But considering the level of detail and research done for the game (like how Snake randomly spews military trivia), i don't think its a mistake.

Tumbling bullets....thanks for the term then!

[Duke Togo]

Strangely, although i'm all for stealth, I feel going rambo through the missions were much easier than MGS 1 and 2. I prefer stealth for the sense of "profesionalism" and all....but after awhile i get tired of sneaking and just take my shotgun gunning everyone down and throwing grenades from behind trees. Getting shot at won't take that much damage either. (this is normal mode).

Thing is, I wasn't a "Rambo" type player in MGS 1&2. I would bust the gun out when need be, but I did my fair share of sneaking about. Its just rather difficult for me to do either in this game. I am not comfortable with the camera angles, which has caused me to get nailed more than a few times. When full out combat was needed, I found using the M16 to be a pain in the ass. Press the O button too hard, and instead of aiming you are firing at nothing, and press it too light, you are are staring at the enemy while they blast rounds into you. I HATE first person shooters. Why oh why did they change this aspect of the game?

I am just pissed because it seems like it could have a good story, and the game itself seems to be very dynamic. I am just struggling very badly with it. I went from Front Mission 4 right into Ace Combat 5 and then GTA San Andreas. MGS3 comes up, and it flat out stopped me cold. Maybe this is what I get for never playing first person shooters.

Edited December 3, 2004 by Duke Togo

[Jolly Rogers]

I wasted a whole lotta ammo too, but with some practice you'll probably get used to it. It took me a while to master MGS2's pressure sensitive aspect of aiming and firing too.

As for sneaking, I found that I had to rely on first-person view and crouching a lot when not using sonar and motion detectors. You definitely can't sneak around the same way in 1 and 2, using walls and crevices to hide yourself. I got semi-nailed early in the game but never again after I decided every guard must be tranquilized before I go about my own business. The AI was nowhere nearly as smart as in 2 during the clearing phase. I'd hide under a log and shoot them at the feet, they'd be firing at me with automatic weapons and never hit me.

I still think MGS2 looks and plays more slick than 3. Backpack management and manual switch of camo are the 2 worst and useless new features in MGS3. If they wanted to make the game more realistic, how about making taking a leak part of the experience?

I got bored with FM4 about halfway into it - the story develops at a slow pace, with the combat at an even slower pace that seems to take forever. MKD tided me over until I got AC5.

[JsARCLIGHT]

But considering the level of detail and research done for the game (like how Snake randomly spews military trivia), i don't think its a mistake.

My wife and I have noticed several "errors" in not only this MGS game but the others before this one. They may have done some study on the topics but "book learnin'" is about all they have to show for it. They get a lot of terms and jargon right but a lot of things they have in the game are "hollywood real", meaing they are not "real" real but what people percieve as real. Every movie, game or show having to do with the military or using military things almost always gets a few things wrong... even Saving Private Ryan had a few flubs. Unless the game was made by a bunch of real world commandos you can always count on a few things "not being right"... but a game made by real world commandos would most likely bore or anger most casual players.

After all, you are basically playing a "movie" about military things made by non-military people... most of which have most likely never fired a real gun in their lives or served in a real army... but that does not take away from the game, it just shows that this is an "artists' rendering" of a theme and not a hardcore sim.

Edit: In effect what I am saying is that this is a game in the end, it is half realism and half hollywood. I'm sure they did certain things like this bullet tumbling just as a "wow-wie" schtick, something to look very impressive or badass on the screen. After all, the player has already suspended disbelief enough just in the premise of the game and on several other elements... they just keep the hits coming to impress and suprise, not neccessarily be true to life.

Edited December 3, 2004 by JsARCLIGHT

[Shake n Bake]

if its a colt .45 those are pretty well known for their tumbling bullets arn't they?

Bullets don't "Tumble" thru the air..

Some rounds like the 5.45x39 (Read what Jsarclight wrote about ak47/74) were designed to have a yawing motion/tumbling effect... But that's after they enter soft tissue.

[Skull Leader]

the gun "The Boss" carried is called a "Patriot" (ironic, eh?), if that helps you any, JS.

[JsARCLIGHT]

Woopsy! Had the wrong thing there.

Edited December 3, 2004 by JsARCLIGHT

[JsARCLIGHT]

A "Patriot" is an AR15 cut down to "pistol" form. Patriot is a name brand made by Rocky Mountain Arms between 1988 and 1994. It did not exsist in 1963.

In case anyone cares this is what a AR pistol looks like. It has a 7 1/2" barrel and a shortened "pistol buffer" back end. These guns are rare and sadly have the killing power of a Ruger 10/22... they are all bark and no bite.

Edited December 3, 2004 by JsARCLIGHT

[KingNor]

i havn't seen the scene yet. but i dont' see what the "wow-ie" effect of seeing wonky tumbly bullets could be. "damn dude, did you see how wrong that bullet fired? that was rad!!" ?? huhh?

but i came up with a theory...

someone earlyer said that guards would spray close range with smgs and miss completely. maybe if the game is played on a harder level, the enemys shoot better and in the "tumbling bullets" scene, we see the bullets are now flying properly.

maybe its an explination of the easyer difficulty level?

easyer level: "hey look the bullets are all weird, no wonder they can't hit anything!"

harder level: "the bullets fire normaly now! that must be why they're smoking me now!"

just a thought, anyone gotten to that part using a harder/ hardest difficulty level?

[Skull Leader]

to the other "aircraft inclined" among metal gear lovers, is that a pretty accurate YF-12 they launch the drone from? I don't recognize the dorsal fin along the rear, but I don't know much about the YF-12/SR-71

[wolfx]

I'm not sure if anyone caught this, but anyone saw Sorrow's Ghost in the torture chamber? :lol:

It unlocks your cell door.

Btw kudos to Konami for the (spoiler) "guard having diarhoeaa" scene again.

[wolfx]

ZOMG! THIS GAME IS GREAT!!!

SAVE YOUR GAME AFTER YOU GET TORTURED!! (when u wake up in the prison)

And when you reload your game, you're playing some guy with big swords hackenslashing zombies....quite violently too might i add!!!!

Try it!!

[bandit29]

Just a side note: (not really a huge MGS) here's some figures coming out from Yamato. I'm sure these will see a stateside release.

http://www.yamato-toys.com/items/detail.php?gid=635

http://www.yamato-toys.com/items/detail.php?gid=634

Edited December 6, 2004 by dejr8bud

[JsARCLIGHT]

My wife really likes the game and... well... I still have not really played it that much.

And once again our hobby of collecting military dolls bleeds over into something she likes again.

Anyone have one of those rare Medicom Solid Snake MGS3 dolls yet? She is contemplating getting one but I told her to hold off until we see someone with one talk about it. $200 is pretty steep for a military doll and I'd like to know if it is worth the ducats before dumping them down another video game doll. She likes her Konami/Yamato MGS dolls so this one hopefully will be similair if not better... but those are $20 each and this one is ten times that. Exclusivity has it's price I guess.

(on another note if anyone actually has one of these and wants to sell it or trade for it let me know. We have a brand new Nintendo DS with mario that we are going to trade soon if anyone is interested)

[Jemstone]

(on another note if anyone actually has one of these and wants to sell it or trade for it let me know. We have a brand new Nintendo DS with mario that we are going to trade soon if anyone is interested)

I'm confused. Which SS MGS3 doll are we talking here? I don't recalla single one I bought being worth $200.

PS When did you get a DS? It was only Nov 23rd when you were still contemplating and evn said you'd pass.

[JsARCLIGHT]

The doll in question is the MGS3 Solid Snake made by Medicom. Supposedly it is limited to 1000 pieces and I have seen it pre-selling at some stores for as low as $188 and as high as $250.

As for the DS I found one in stock at a local Best Buy (turns out they were hiding them under the counters without letting people know they actually had them, you had to track down a blueshirt and ask). I bought it on a whim along with Mario DS. Needless to say it wore out it's welcome fast. The thing is all gimmick and very "been there done that" when the gimmick of the touch screen wears off. But that is another topic all together.

This is the Snake doll of which I speak:

[Jemstone]

Ah, I see. I had no idea it was on pre-order for that much. I don't think anybody who has it would trade it for a DS.

BTW I hardly ever buy from Image Anime but I think many sites are inflating the price to make a quick but big buck.

Perfect example of a rip off: http://www.artoftoy.com/megesosn.html

Why $338.00 USD?

Edited December 6, 2004 by Jemstone

[JsARCLIGHT]

Heh, Just thought I'd offer up that DS... I pretty much think people who get that doll will part with an arm before they give it up.

... and getting rid of this DS for a decent recoup will be hard. These things loose value like a pinto off the lot from what I've seen. I guess to eBay it goes like all the other garbage... I mean... "collectables".

[Jolly Rogers]

... and getting rid of this DS for a decent recoup will be hard. These things loose value like a pinto off the lot from what I've seen. I guess to eBay it goes like all the other garbage... I mean... "collectables".

DS sold for $250 on eBay

[JsARCLIGHT]

That one was NIB sealed DS that sold to an international bidder so take that number with a grain of salt. I have only seen two used open DSes sell on eBay and both sold for under retail. I've also seen another one for sale open/used with Mario on another site that sold for about $150. Used game systems drop in value like a used car... unless you find a totally crazy buyer. Either way I'll most likely dump it on eBay later and I'm expecting to have lost money on it, perhaps as much as 25% when the chips are down.

Unless someone makes me an offer...

Now back to the MGS3 discussion.

[wolfx]

Finished it. Loved it! The ending sequence was cool...very dramatasized, but cool! I finished Boss with my labcoat and handkerchief....funny stuff! Totally ruins the cool falling white flowers effect....haha.

I feel so angsty suddenly...poor Snake....

[Murphy]

So im thinking about getting this game, i loved MGS for the PS1, but i absolutly hated MGS2 for the PS2. I didnt like the characters in MGS2(The members of dead cell and raiden were all a joke to me) i hated the level design (The Big Shell? wtf was that?), and the story made me fell like a retard cuz i didnt understand most of it. So i wasn't planning on buying MGS3 untill i read some reviews on gamefaqs that made it seem pretty good. So to all you MGS fans who played it, is this game worth it or should i skip it. Bottem line is that i dont want to get MGS3 and get the feeling of playing MGS2 all over again.

thx

[Jolly Rogers]

Fear not. Kojima heard the bitchin' and whinin' and kept the mindjobs on a tight leash this time, although you'll probably hate the jungle, since stealth in the jungle is a whole different ballgame from the kind of sneaking you're used to in 1 and 2.

[Major Johnathan]

Well I know this is an ancient topic, but after playing and finishing this game, I first have to say it's extremely fun and cool, my favorite PS 1 or 2 game.

Hideo Koijima is a bit whacky in his political imagination, but the characters, setting and style more than compensate. Some really great music to go along with it, I just got the sountracks, I've been playing the main theme (track #2) over and over.

I have a question:

I remember in the first clip released on the web many moons ago, they show cut scenes of snake running through the woods being chased by soldiers and dogs and it ends with Snake dramatically yelling as he leaps off a water fall to escape them. Where did that scene go? There is a stage with a water fall (the battle with 'The End') but you never leap it. Then there's a scene where Snake jumps out of a storm drain like Harrison Ford in the Fugitive, but that's not in the woods. Anyone know what I'm talking about? Maybe I'm just remembering wrong...

Lastly, after playing the demo disc over and over, I wish I could play the game in it's original Japanese dialogue. The English cast isn't too bad, but the original always sounds better. (Is Snake's voice the same guy that did Anavel Gato in 0083? Sounds like him.) I wish there was that option in the game, I may have to buy a Japanese PS2 just for this reason.

[halfan]

His name is Akio Ôtsuka and here is a list of his voice work.

[Ladic]

haha, I just started playing this game, and I can't even climb the dam tree.

Yeah, I suck at video games.

[Chowser]

hey, i just finished this last night too, and i have to say after playing the whole thing, i do like this, this would be my favorite over the others.

still weird political stuff, but, hey, that's hideo.

[Jolly Rogers]

haha, I just started playing this game, and I can't even climb the dam tree.

Yeah, I suck at video games.

I found tree climbing to be fairly useless except for the battle with The Fear.

Most things can be solved in different ways, you don't have to be good at the one thing they want you to be in order to pass a certain challenge/roadblock.

[Tico0001]

I just started playing this game and it looks pretty cool. But my problem is that I'm hating the jungle so far... I hate the invisible walls that I've found .

Is the jungle just the first level?? or is the game all jungle??

Thanks,

Tico

[Jolly Rogers]

Mostly jungle, but you do get some indoor actions here and there.

I hated the jungle initially too, but you just adapt to it. Camo and the d-pad are your best friends in the jungle.