Joe, the Bad, and the Ugly

[Agent ONE]

For those of you who aren't western fans, Director Sergio Leone made 3 westerns staring Clint Eastwood. The first was called "A Fist Full of Dollars," the second was called "For a Few Dollars More," and the third was "The Good, The Bad and the Ugly."

These movies were probably some of the greatest films of all time, and possibly one of the best parts of them was the fact that we are left with little information about the main character. Hence these movies are often refered to as the "Man With no Name" trilogy.

Now I am actually not even sure if this main character is even supposed to be the same character in all three movies, or not. In most of The Good, The Bad and the Ugly, he was refered to as "Blondie," and I think once, Joe.

When looking at IMDB I noticed that in A Fist Full of Dollars, he was called Joe also, but IMDB missed the fact that in For a Few Dollars More, we actually hear his full name, that being Joe MANCO.

My question really is, is he supposed to be the same guy in all 3 movies?

[Viceland]

IMHO, yes and no.

Leone was setting the foundation to what was to become the quintessential spaqhetti western formula: "The lone gunman in pursuit of money to the exclusion of all else". So Eastwood could be playing the same guy, but I think it's more like he's playing the same type of guy, he was just so perfect for that/those role(s) that Leone would have been crazy not to exploit it. Same thing with Lee Van Cleef as a bad guy, he was in the last 2 films in the No Name trilogy (It's also known as the "Dollars Trilogy", even though the last* film, Good/Bad/Ugly, doesn't have the word "dollars" in the title, it's still about a guy after money) and he played different roles, he's so awesome in "A Few Dollars More"!!!

I'm pretty positive "Blondie" is Tuco's nickname for Eastwood's character in GBU, as for Joe/Joe Manco, I dunno.

*The only thing, IMHO, that could tie the 3 roles together as the same character is the poncho (and maybe the cigar smoking ). Eastwood is wearing the same poncho in the first 2 films but he isn't in The Good, The Bad and The Ugly... at first. He picks it up near a dying soldier just before the cemetary/final shoot out scene, so in a way, this film is actually a prequel to the first 2 $ films.

"My mule don't like people laughing" - Man With No Name

[eriku]

I'm not a western fan by any stretch of the imagination, but S.Leone's trilogy is easily among my favorites. I was just watching FAFDM over the weekend and the thought struck me that I would LOOOOOOOVE an action figure of 'Joe' (whom I've always assumed to be the same character throughout the films). I'd be happy with one done in a NECA or McFarlane style, but I would be ecstatic over one done by Kaiyodo or even one in Medicom's Stylish Collection.

Anyone know if any figures of 'Joe' were ever made?

Edited November 18, 2004 by eriku

[bsu legato]

Apparently, "Manco" loses something in the translation. What it supposedly means in Italian is something akin to "maimed." If you watch For a Few Dollars More carefully, you'll notice that Eastwood does everything left handed in that movie. Everything, that is, but shoot. That task is what his right hand is reserved for. "Manco," or one-handed, is like calling Eastwood's character "Lefty."

[bsu legato]

Anyone know if any figures of 'Joe' were ever made?

Monsters in Motion has a 1/6 scale resiin statue of Blondie, complete with the colt Navy that he uses in GBA. I highly recommend it.

[JsARCLIGHT]

To me they are the three best western movies ever made. Screw the Duke, he is a fat balding lowland gorilla compared to Leone's leading men. The desperados and lawmen of the old west were not the shining stars, black hats and white hats that the westerns of the 50's and '60s portrayed... they were dirty rotten scoundrels.

... and while not a Leone picture what are the group's thoughts on High Plains Drifter? Technically he had no name in that movie either... and was he the avenging spirit of the sherriff or just a lone badass? Same goes for Pale Rider... they just called him "Preacher" in that one. Poor Clint did not have a name a lot of movies.

[Roy Focker]

Fist Full Of Dollars is a remake of Yojimbo. A few of Kurosawa's Samurai movies have been turned into westerns. Strange how samurai movies can adapt so well into westerns.

[Opus]

Fist Full Of Dollars is a remake of Yojimbo. A few of Kurosawa's Samurai movies have been turned into westerns. Strange how samurai movies can adapt so well into westerns.

many of Kurosawa's films are remakes of Shkespeare which compouds the strangeness even more.

I think my favorite Clint western is the Outlaw Josie Whales.

[Ladic]

I liked Unforgiven.

[ewilen]

I can't add much to what Viceland and others have said.

I enjoyed GBU best. I saw it first, and in a way that spoiled the other two for me, because I think it really outshines the other two.

Note that Lee Van Cleef is *not* a bad guy in A Few Dollars More. The bad guy in that movie is a great psycho, though.

JsArclight, I appreciate your comment about the moral ambiguity of the characters, but I also think the trilogy is nearly as stylized as previous Westerns, merely in a different direction. Of the various Westerns I've seen, the one that felt the most genuine to me was Wyatt Earp, even though it has one of my least favorite actors in Kevin Costner; then again, it has a great performance by Dennis Quaid as Doc Holliday.

High Plains Drifter was okay, not great. Unforgiven is a hair short of great. I remember liking Josie Wales but that's nearly all I remember. Still need to see Pale Rider; I understand it's based on Shane, which to me is horribly dated with the exception of two actors: Jack Palance, who is fantastic, and the actor who plays the bad guy rancher.

[Agent ONE]

Apparently, "Manco" loses something in the translation. What it supposedly means in Italian is something akin to "maimed." If you watch For a Few Dollars More carefully, you'll notice that Eastwood does everything left handed in that movie. Everything, that is, but shoot. That task is what his right hand is reserved for. "Manco," or one-handed, is like calling Eastwood's character "Lefty."

Woah, thats really good info. So he is just simply "Joe" in all three movies.

I liked viceland's explanation of yes/no.

[JELEINEN]

Fist Full Of Dollars is a remake of Yojimbo.  A few of Kurosawa's Samurai movies have been turned into westerns.  Strange how samurai movies can adapt so well into westerns.

Yojinbo was itself taken from a pulp noir novel called Red Harvest by Dashiell Hammett.

As to whether the character from the three films in question is the same person, I think the yes/no answer is best.

Oh, and can someone tell me if the 2 disc set of GB&U is worth getting?

Other great westerns:

Once Upon a Time in the West. Another Leone film. I picked up the 2 disc set for it a while back really cheap and I'm very happy with it.

The Man Who Shot Liberty Vallance. Jimmy Stewart and John Wayne in one movie, how can you go wrong? A great story just makes it all the better.

The Searchers. A beautiful, yet dark film. Amazing performance by Wayne.

High Noon. Awesome story that turned the genre on its ear. I think you can trace stuff like Leone's films directly back to this one.

John Ford's Fort Apache trilogy: Fort Apache, She Wore a Yellow Ribbon, and Rio Grande. Wonderful character studies and further proof against those who like to stereotype Wayne.

Blazing Saddles. It's funny.

Edited November 18, 2004 by JELEINEN

[bsu legato]

High Planes Drifter is one of my favorite movies, ranking just below the Leone films. It's just such an unapologetically brutal movie, and the quasi-supernatural aspect is something pretty unique where westerns are concerned. I think its one of the greatest "revenge" movies ever.

The 2-disc Good, Bad, Ugly set is one of my most treasured DVDs. The added footage was already available in the earlier single disc edition, but it wasn't re-edited into the movie as it is here. The documentaries are all interesting, and it's especially nice to see both Clint Eastwood and Eli Wallach giving their thoughts on the picture. The only negative I can think of is the audio commentary by film historian Richard Shickel. It's an informative track, but its not the most engaging to listen to.

[Jemstone]

I was always under the impression that he was playing the same man in the Dollars movies but played a "like character" in BGU. A badass after money. Great films I didn't realize I knew by heart till about 4 years ago.

This discussion has reminded me to look for DVD releases of a few Franco Nero films.

[Mechamaniac]

Red Harvest = Yojimbo = For A Few Dollars More = Last Man Standing.

A formula done time and time again, with the current remake craze that is plaguing the out of ideas Hollywood crowd.

I'm going with Opus on this one, my fav Eastwood western is Outlaw Josey Wales.

I wonder if anyone will ever have the ballz to remake any of the Eastwood westerns while Clint is still alive, and bad enough to whoop that ass...

[bsu legato]

I wonder if anyone will ever have the ballz to remake any of the Eastwood westerns while Clint is still alive, and bad enough to whoop that ass...

Oh God....bite your tongue! Hollywood just might hear you.

[Agent ONE]

I wonder if anyone will ever have the ballz to remake any of the Eastwood westerns while Clint is still alive, and bad enough to whoop that ass...

Oh God....bite your tongue! Hollywood just might hear you.

They aren't the type that would be remade. Usually remakes are done when the orig. movie is a particularly amazing or unique story. None of these 3 are like that... I mean they are awesome, but they are awesome because of Clint and the whole low-budget feel of the thing.

Western's that get remade will be ones bassed on true stories like The OK Corall thing.

[fearyaks]

Have these three been released as a DVD set yet? I mean a good set, not just repackaged VHS rips or anythign? I'm tempted to get the 2-Disc GBU set but if there are plans to release all three, I may just wait on that one.

Edit... I found this one but I wonder if the quality is as good as the new SE GBU set.

Anyone know?

Edited November 18, 2004 by fearyaks

[EXO]

Red Harvest = Yojimbo = For A Few Dollars More = Last Man Standing.

A formula done time and time again, with the current remake craze that is plaguing the out of ideas Hollywood crowd.

I'm going with Opus on this one, my fav Eastwood western is Outlaw Josey Wales.

I wonder if anyone will ever have the ballz to remake any of the Eastwood westerns while Clint is still alive, and bad enough to whoop that ass...

Sorry small correction...

Red Harvest = Yojimbo =Fistful Of Dollars = Last Man Standing.

I actually like all versions, except that Red Harvest... never heard of it.

[bsu legato]

Have these three been released as a DVD set yet? I mean a good set, not just repackaged VHS rips or anythign? I'm tempted to get the 2-Disc GBU set but if there are plans to release all three, I may just wait on that one.

Edit... I found this one but I wonder if the quality is as good as the new SE GBU set.

Anyone know?

No, the one you linked to only has the older single disc edition of GBU. I'd buy the 2-disc version of GBU if I were you. AS for the other two Dollar films, there's no current word of special editions for either of them at the moment. You might as well pick up the other two movies right now. Even if a better edition comes out, the current ones are less than $10 so you're not really out that much money.

[Amped]

Man, I LOVE Leone's Man with No Name trilogy. Clint is note perfect in the main role.

IMO, one of the best scenes EVER occurs in For a Few Dollars More, when uber-baddass Lee Van Cleef lights a match offa the hump of the psychotic hunchback bandit, played by the suitably psychotic Klaus Kinski.

Speakin' of ol' Klaus... I just ordered a DVD on reputation alone recently called The Great Silence. Supposed to a really great Western. Anyone ever seen it?

[Agent ONE]

...

IMO, one of the best scenes EVER occurs in For a Few Dollars More, when uber-baddass Lee Van Cleef lights a match offa the hump of the psychotic hunchback bandit, played by the suitably psychotic Klaus Kinski.

...

Yep that was SO awesome.

[ewilen]

I forgot that Kinski was in AFDM. He was fine in the movie, but I think the other psycho is scarier.

Jeleinen mentioned The Searchers. Definitely recommended if you think Wayne was just a fat lunk. Also, I think The Searchers along with Kurosawa's The Hidden Fortress were sources of inspiration for Star Wars.

Edited November 18, 2004 by ewilen

[JsARCLIGHT]

The Searchers is the only John Wayne movie I will actually watch... the rest of his stuff is crap. I just don't like John Wayne... mostly because of his later works before he died, his "off camera" personality and just the general feel I get when I see the man. Millions adore him... I think he is highly overrated.

[Blaine23]

Love these three films as I do, my personal favorite Eastwood Western will always be the Outlaw Josey Wales. No doubt there as to who he is.

As a young man, I wanted to grow up and kill people and chew tobacco, just so I could spit a nice brown juicer on a corpse. Or a dog. Or a scorption. Really, whatever I wanted to.

Plus it also has my favorite lines of all time in a western.

"Man's got a right to make a living."

"Dyin' ain't much of a living, boy."

[Mallet21]

My favorite movie line of all time was in The G,B,U when Blondie says,

"There are two kinds of people in this world. Those with loaded guns, and those who dig. You dig.

[Jemstone]

Love these three films as I do, my personal favorite Eastwood Western will always be the Outlaw Josey Wales. No doubt there as to who he is.

So am I the only one who was actually bored thru the second half of that film?

[bsu legato]

Love these three films as I do, my personal favorite Eastwood Western will always be the Outlaw Josey Wales.  No doubt there as to who he is.

So am I the only one who was actually bored thru the second half of that film?

Clint is going to pretend you didn't just say that.

Edited November 19, 2004 by bsu legato

[GobotFool]

Love these three films as I do, my personal favorite Eastwood Western will always be the Outlaw Josey Wales.  No doubt there as to who he is.

So am I the only one who was actually bored thru the second half of that film?

Clint is going to pretend you didn't just say that.

2nd half is the best part of the movie

I usually skip the the whole 1st section of the movie, and start watching it right after that whiney little kid finally expires.

Edited November 21, 2004 by GobotFool

[Duke Togo]

I'd like to recommend High Plains Drifter and Pale Rider.