VF-19 pilot!!! Posted November 9, 2004 Posted November 9, 2004 ok, you have all seen my recent kits non-painted just the oil washes.. now that i have incorporated airbrush painting, i am having one hell of a time trying to do an oil wash after doing a clear coat. i have tried model master laqcure, testors clear coat, and now i am trying future floor wax as a clear coat which many on other websites swear by!..... so far what has happened with all these products is iether the base coats gets stripped away or the wash sticks to the clear coat and cannot be rubbed off. while many of you have given me the tips and techniques, (thanks) all of you leave out an essential step. how long do you let the clear coat cure before you apply the oil wash( kind of important and nobody ever clears that up? it seems the concensus is that you should wait 24-48 hours, is this true, beacuse i have been waiting at most an hour for the clear coat to dry and then after applying the oil wash i wait another hour....is this what i am doing wrong??? please a little help anyone. Quote
THOR Posted November 9, 2004 Posted November 9, 2004 I always put the clearcote on last over the washes. I only use washes made of the same ingredients as the paint (enamel or acrylic). Never tried oils... Quote
VF-19 pilot!!! Posted November 9, 2004 Author Posted November 9, 2004 well, how does that work exactly? won't both those washes ruin the base coat ? how would you wipe away the exccess??? Quote
Grayson72 Posted November 9, 2004 Posted November 9, 2004 (edited) You told us what you're using for clear coats but didn't tell us what you're using for a wash? Edited November 9, 2004 by Grayson72 Quote
VF-19 pilot!!! Posted November 9, 2004 Author Posted November 9, 2004 sorry, it is mineral spirit and artist oil paint mixed together Quote
Grayson72 Posted November 9, 2004 Posted November 9, 2004 It has to be low oder mineral spirits, if you put on the future floor wax first it shouldn't matter how long you let it sit for, a few minutes or two days, the stuff always wipes right up for me. Quote
Grayson72 Posted November 9, 2004 Posted November 9, 2004 Oh and when you're wiping up the excess with a soft towel you don't need any of the spirits on it, it should just wipe off without anything. Quote
VF-19 pilot!!! Posted November 9, 2004 Author Posted November 9, 2004 ok, here is what i am doing exactly, I use enamel paints, then when dry i airbrush a coat of the future floor wax and when dry i mix a batch of the oil wash (with low odor) and apply, i wait 30-1 hour then try to wipe off the problem is it the base coat was stripped? what am i doing wrong? it seems like this is working for everyone eccept me Quote
Greyryder Posted November 9, 2004 Posted November 9, 2004 I've never waited to wipe an oil wash back, before. I just wipe very lightly if I don't want to remove too much. I'd say that your mineral spirits in your oil paint are probably eating away at your clear coat. I can't really help you on this, since the oil paints I use were originally intended for ceramics, and can be thinned with water. There's nothing in it to attack the lower the coats of paint. Quote
VF-19 pilot!!! Posted November 9, 2004 Author Posted November 9, 2004 yeah i kinda figured that already..... man i guess nobody really know then? some people say they don't wait at all some say wait a day...man what the hell???!!!! man what to do...what to do????? can anyone shed some light on this? Quote
Berttt Posted November 9, 2004 Posted November 9, 2004 Well I have never used Future so I cannot comment on what will or will not disolve the stuff, but the first two will definitely react to mineral spirits. Here is what I do. 1)Apply base colour, doesn't matter if it is enamel or acrylic. Allow to dry thoroughly. 2)Apply acrylic gloss clear coat, I am not sure how long I usually leave the stuff as I model in fits and starts, but at least a couple of hours, depending on the weather. Make sure when you are done that the surface of the kit is shiny. 3)Using mineral spirits and artist oil paint I apply it sparingly. 4)After about an hour or so I use a paper towel or cloth and gently wipe away the excess 5) after allowing the wash to thoroughly dry apply the acrylic matt clear coat. It definitely sounsd like whatever you are using is a solvent for your clear coat, or your clear coat has a bit of a rough surface which will trap the pigment in the wash. Hope this helps. Brett Quote
promethuem5 Posted November 9, 2004 Posted November 9, 2004 I think its gott to do with the fact that ur putting a glossy future coat on the model, and then putting future in teh oil wash so its bonding with itself. Try using some other gloss sealer before you oil wash it, like Krylon or Testors..what you are tryting to do is gave a sheer glossy surface that teh oil wash will not stick to so it wipes off the raised surfaces, but stays in teh crevices.....also, I recommend trying a diff wash is you need to. Games Workshop inks are a tad expensive, but they are the bomb diggity dizzle, I absolutely love them. Quote
Grayson72 Posted November 9, 2004 Posted November 9, 2004 Man I can't believe you're spraying enamels, talk about tough cleanup. I tried it at first when I got my airbrush just because I already had so many enamel paints but then figured it wasn't worth it and switched to acrylics. My local hobby shop carries both Tamiya and Gunze Aqueous. Quote
VF-19 pilot!!! Posted November 9, 2004 Author Posted November 9, 2004 i'm using mineral siprit and artist oil. paint..where did you get that i was using the future in the wash???????? Quote
promethuem5 Posted November 9, 2004 Posted November 9, 2004 Quote: i airbrush a coat of the future floor wax and when dry i mix a batch of the oil wash right there dude. thats Your problem, like I said in my other post Quote
007-vf1 Posted November 9, 2004 Posted November 9, 2004 My take on this is that the reaction you are having it could be happening for many reasons; 1-enamel base coat is not getting long enough time to dry and it mixes with the future coat 2- it could be that when you airbrush the future over it the layer it's too thin. 3-the thinner (mineral spirits) on the wash is too strong and goes throught the layer of Future eating away the enamel 4-the mineral spirits that you might be using on your wash might also be strong enough that when it sits on the model too long eats through the future layer. I had this problem before with acrilics base coat and a top layering by testor clear coat. the problem was the dying time of the acrilics wich wasn't enough and the testors coat was too thick that even with a long drying period wouldl find a way to eat throut the base coat layers and destroyed 2 model all together. I don't let the wash sit too long on the model i wipe it right aftr no more than 10 minutes Quote
VF-19 pilot!!! Posted November 9, 2004 Author Posted November 9, 2004 so , 007 what would you suggest for the drying time? i am using enamels ? Quote
VF-19 pilot!!! Posted November 9, 2004 Author Posted November 9, 2004 quote: I think its gott to do with the fact that ur putting a glossy future coat on the model, and then putting future in teh oil wash so its bonding with itself putting future in the oil wash? i'm not sure what you are talking about but i never said that i mixed future in the oil wash?????? that would be silly!!!!!???? please read my steps again. Quote
Gerwalker Posted November 9, 2004 Posted November 9, 2004 Is the future coat glossy, I mean future needs to be applied severeal times on a matt paint surface to really protect the base coat. My guess is that your future layer is too thin to protect the underlying paint. I've been using this technique without any trouble so far. In fact in my Hase Batt and in my Gundam Deathscythe I repeated the wash several times and even applied a LOT of non odor spirit to clean some messy parts without any problem. There is another technique i used (it is from Fine Scale M.) that is super safe: Future floor over the model until you get a nice glossy coat (or if you are using gloss paint you can forget about Future...almost a punk quote!! No Futuree...) Make a sludge from 1 part acrilic paint + 1 part dish washing liquid detergent (no mater the brand) + 1 part water. The detergent lowers the surface tension of the mix so it goes into the panel lines as the oil wash. Let it dry and clean the surface with water moisted cotton tips. If you dont like it: just wash it with tap water!! Good luck and have fun!! Quote
azrhino Posted November 9, 2004 Posted November 9, 2004 Make a sludge from 1 part acrilic paint + 1 part dish washing liquid detergent (no mater the brand) + 1 part water. The detergent lowers the surface tension of the mix so it goes into the panel lines as the oil wash. Let it dry and clean the surface with water moisted cotton tips. If you dont like it: just wash it with tap water!! THANK YOU, GERWALKER!!! I have been looking for that slurry formula for months. Quote
VF-19 pilot!!! Posted November 9, 2004 Author Posted November 9, 2004 thanks gerwalker, i am gonna try that tonight, i think it makes more sense than some of the other technigues , i will let you know if it works thanks to all for the tips alan. Quote
VF-19 pilot!!! Posted November 9, 2004 Author Posted November 9, 2004 man ..oh..man!!!!!! Gerwalker!!!!!! you are the man !!!!! or women!!!! i'm not sure well regardless if our paths ever cross i really owe you a beer!!!! tried you method and it worked better than any oil wash i have ever done!!! i will dedicate my next poject to you !!! thanks again my man.... alan. Quote
promethuem5 Posted November 9, 2004 Posted November 9, 2004 hmmm... my apologies...I managed to read you post three times and get it wrong...reading comprehension DOES help hahaha. Sorry for the confusion. I have heard of the dichsoap sludge method before but never tried it. I am curious to see how your use of it resulted. Quote
VF-19 pilot!!! Posted November 10, 2004 Author Posted November 10, 2004 no probs promethuem5, i had to read it again myself to make sure i didn't make a mistake. i am currently working on my cannon fodder VF-0A i will be using this technique and i will post pics soon. thanks, alan. Quote
Gerwalker Posted November 10, 2004 Posted November 10, 2004 man ..oh..man!!!!!!Gerwalker!!!!!! you are the man !!!!! or women!!!! i'm not sure well regardless if our paths ever cross i really owe you a beer!!!! tried you method and it worked better than any oil wash i have ever done!!! i will dedicate my next poject to you !!! thanks again my man.... alan. Yes, I'm a MAN... I wonder how many Meltrans we have right now active in these forums... I'm glad that it worked for you!! It's not my technique It is from some guy in Fine Scale Modeler. As for a beer, if you happen to be close to Cambridge, MA just PM me!! Quote
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