RHE-0[...] Reaction Weaponry

[Aurel Tristen]

For your information:

http://nanashino.macrossmecha.info/misrock/rhe0.html

[Dat Pinche Haro!]

nukes?

[ewilen]

Reaction weapons, same general type as was used in the opening of SDF Macross (thus impressing Britai and Exedore) and in Love Drifts Away.

http://macross.anime.net/story/encyclopedi...apon/index.html

[Godzilla]

Actually it is speculation that it could be nukes. I suspect it is not since atomic and nuclear weapons is a hot topic issue with Japan due to the Aug 6 and 9, 1945 with the dropping of two atomic weapons on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, respectively.

Reactive weapons are more like high explosive yeild without the "nuclear reaction" thanks largely in part of Overtechnology.

[Macross_Fanboy]

In other words, not a nuke, but just as powerful as one without EMP right??

[azrael]

Nanashi...

You misspelled AFOS (You used Aphos).

http://www.anime.net/macross/story/encyclo...afos/index.html

[Knight26]

Actually I believe that Kawamori has stated that Reaction weapons are nuclear in their warheads but because of the general dislike of almost all things nuclear in Japan, gee wonder why, they have always refered to them as reaction weapons in macross.

[Aurel Tristen]

Reaction weapons, same general type as was used in the opening of SDF Macross (thus impressing Britai and Exedore) and in Love Drifts Away.

http://macross.anime.net/story/encyclopedi...apon/index.html

Actually these are different.

These appear to be projectile shells (Reaction High Explosive (or Reaction High Energy-? --- not the Valkyrie-use RMS-1 large-type reaction anti-ship missile system), which have casings that are fired out of the HWR-00-Mk.I Monster Destroid Initial Prototype's 50cm Linear Cannons, which, after fired at certain point ignite their own rocket/engines until they reach their target. Fired over 160km.... holy...! Interesting stuf fif I must say so myself.

[1st Border Red Devil]

In other words, not a nuke, but just as powerful as one without EMP right??

Would the EMP matter? Arent the reaction weapons carried by the VF-1 only a 1 kiloton yield? The EMP from the would be relatively miniscule.

[Aurel Tristen]

Nanashi...

You misspelled AFOS (You used Aphos).

http://www.anime.net/macross/story/encyclo...afos/index.html

You're right. Thanks. I was going off the name of the Greek mythological term. Corrected.

[Aurel Tristen]

oops wrong person - sorry

Edited October 25, 2004 by Nanashi

[Aurel Tristen]

Actually I believe that Kawamori has stated that Reaction weapons are nuclear in their warheads but because of the general dislike of almost all things nuclear in Japan, gee wonder why, they have always refered to them as reaction weapons in macross.

http://www.anime.net/macross/story/encyclo...apon/index.html

[ewilen]

Reaction weapons, same general type as was used in the opening of SDF Macross (thus impressing Britai and Exedore) and in Love Drifts Away.

http://macross.anime.net/story/encyclopedi...apon/index.html

Actually these are different.

These appear to be projectile shells (Reaction High Explosive (or Reaction High Energy-? --- not the Valkyrie-use RMS-1 large-type reaction anti-ship missile system), which have casings that are fired out of the HWR-00-Mk.I Monster Destroid Initial Prototype's 50cm Linear Cannons, which, after fired at certain point ignite their own rocket/engines until they reach their target. Fired over 160km.... holy...! Interesting stuf fif I must say so myself.

I'm not saying it's the same weapon, just that the warhead uses the same technology.

For which, everyone really needs to look at the link I posted, then proceed from there with speculation.

[ewilen]

By the way, stretching my knowledge of Japanese to the breaking point, I think you can replace "Bird of Man" with "Birdman" or "Bird-man". Based on the fact that in My Neighbor Totoro, "Neko no Basu" is translated as "Cat bus", not "bus of cat".

[Aurel Tristen]

By the way, stretching my knowledge of Japanese to the breaking point, I think you can replace "Bird of Man" with "Birdman" or "Bird-man". Based on the fact that in My Neighbor Totoro, "Neko no Basu" is translated as "Cat bus", not "bus of cat".

Refresh that was changed earlier.

[ewilen]

Ah. But you still have "Bird's Man". Compare (from this page) "apato no biru", "apartment building", not "building of apartment", or "apartment's building".

[Aurel Tristen]

Ah. But you still have "Bird's Man". Compare (from this page) "apato no biru", "apartment building", not "building of apartment", or "apartment's building".

I know the concept. Sorry, I had fixed it right.

[BlueMax]

i remember in the Chinese fansub that as the Monster fired the reaction weaponry, Shin said something about the radiation harming the Mayan islands.

The only reason why the the place was not irradiated was as Nanashi quoted that the explosion was absorbed my the AFOS.

[ewilen]

We've had a little discussion about reaction weaponry and the somewhat related real-world concept of antimatter bombs recently. Apparently, a pure fusion bomb will still emit a flash of gamma rays, but unlike current fission-fusion thermonuclear weapons, it wouldn't produce radioactive fallout. Either Kawamori is unaware of this, or he doesn't care, or he's decided that reaction weapons do produce fallout for whatever reason, or the "radiation" Shin refers to is just the flash and hard gamma rays that would probably kill everything on the ground without necessarily leaving the islands uninhabitable.

[Aurel Tristen]

We've had a little discussion about reaction weaponry and the somewhat related real-world concept of antimatter bombs recently. Apparently, a pure fusion bomb will still emit a flash of gamma rays, but unlike current fission-fusion thermonuclear weapons, it wouldn't produce radioactive fallout. Either Kawamori is unaware of this, or he doesn't care, or he's decided that reaction weapons do produce fallout for whatever reason, or the "radiation" Shin refers to is just the flash and hard gamma rays that would probably kill everything on the ground without necessarily leaving the islands uninhabitable.

Perhaps the OT-based thermonuclear reaction explosion (which is similar, yet different than regular nuclear fusion) has different effects as it makes use of the super dimension spatial theory, producing different effects with this unknown set of variables.

[1st Border Red Devil]

Perhaps the OT-based thermonuclear reaction explosion (which is similar, yet different than regular nuclear fusion) has different effects as it makes use of the super dimension spatial theory, producing different effects with this unknown set of variables.

Wait....in other words it could be used to what....create a singularity?

[ewilen]

I think what Nanashi is saying is that the RHE warheads might just work in a different way from what we might expect, which could justify Shin's saying that the island will be harmed by "radiation".

(Of course, what does Shin know about RHE weaponry, anyway?)

If you read the link I posted earlier along with

http://macross.anime.net/story/encyclopedi...tion/index.html

you get some hint as to how the reaction warhead works. Basically, while a conventional H-bomb uses a fission (uranium or plutonium) bomb to start the fusion reaction, the RHE uses super dimension technology to initiate the reaction. E.g., by warping space in a small area, you create pressure/temperature similar to the core of a star.

[1st Border Red Devil]

E.g., by warping space in a small area, you create pressure/temperature similar to the core of a star.

*snickers*

Well....all series have to have their voodoo science in one form or another.

[ewilen]

a) That's my interpretation, don't blame Macross for it.

b) If you can accept the idea of a hyperspace fold, and antigravity/artificial gravity, the idea follows quite naturally. Since both concepts are already in Macross, this provides a very economical way of explaining how reaction warheads work.

[Aurel Tristen]

I think what Nanashi is saying is that the RHE warheads might just work in a different way from what we might expect, which could justify Shin's saying that the island will be harmed by "radiation".

(Of course, what does Shin know about RHE weaponry, anyway?)

If you read the link I posted earlier along with

http://macross.anime.net/story/encyclopedi...tion/index.html

you get some hint as to how the reaction warhead works. Basically, while a conventional H-bomb uses a fission (uranium or plutonium) bomb to start the fusion reaction, the RHE uses super dimension technology to initiate the reaction. E.g., by warping space in a small area, you create pressure/temperature similar to the core of a star.

Just to clarify, as yet, there is nothing said that RHE reaction weaponry is different than other reaction weaponry of that time. That is, RHE isn't the only reaction weapon that uses the super dimension spatial theory. I believe the RHE-0[...] to just be the model number of the munition (Like RMS-1) Egan would then step in and say that this is all speculation and that Kawamori has not specified what the accronyms stand for-which is fine. But, I believe that RHE would stand for Reaction High Explosive, but it could be Reaction High Energy. Reaction High Explosive, I believe would make more sense in a model number. High Energy weapons are any nuclear weapons (etc.). With the Valkyrie-use RMS-1, RMS could stand for Reaction Missile System. But that's not official, or is it? : P

[Aurel Tristen]

I think what Nanashi is saying is that the RHE warheads might just work in a different way from what we might expect, which could justify Shin's saying that the island will be harmed by "radiation".

(Of course, what does Shin know about RHE weaponry, anyway?)

If you read the link I posted earlier along with

http://macross.anime.net/story/encyclopedi...tion/index.html

you get some hint as to how the reaction warhead works. Basically, while a conventional H-bomb uses a fission (uranium or plutonium) bomb to start the fusion reaction, the RHE uses super dimension technology to initiate the reaction. E.g., by warping space in a small area, you create pressure/temperature similar to the core of a star.

I don't believe the inner workings of thermonuclear reaction have been explained in detail...

[Boxer]

I find it interesting that the Monster's linear cannons can fire missiles. So does this mean other shell-firing weapons of that caliber can fire missiles/rockets? (And while we're on that thought, what about beam cannons firing shells/missiles?)

[ewilen]

I think what Nanashi is saying is that the RHE warheads might just work in a different way from what we might expect, which could justify Shin's saying that the island will be harmed by "radiation".

(Of course, what does Shin know about RHE weaponry, anyway?)

If you read the link I posted earlier along with

http://macross.anime.net/story/encyclopedi...tion/index.html

you get some hint as to how the reaction warhead works. Basically, while a conventional H-bomb uses a fission (uranium or plutonium) bomb to start the fusion reaction, the RHE uses super dimension technology to initiate the reaction. E.g., by warping space in a small area, you create pressure/temperature similar to the core of a star.

I don't believe the inner workings of thermonuclear reaction have been explained in detail...

Yes, that is 100% my speculation--I take credit or blame for it as due.

And yes, when I wrote the RHE might not be "what we might expect", I didn't mean to draw a distinction between the RHE and other reaction weapons. I meant that we'd expect (or at least I'd expect) that reaction weapons wouldn't leave dangerous radioactive isotopes in the environ of the blast; however, for whatever reason, maybe they do, just like regular A-bombs and H-bombs.

Edited October 26, 2004 by ewilen

[ewilen]

I find it interesting that the Monster's linear cannons can fire missiles. So does this mean other shell-firing weapons of that caliber can fire missiles/rockets? (And while we're on that thought, what about beam cannons firing shells/missiles?)

Well, in the real world, certain Soviet tanks can fire a missile through the barrel of their main 125 mm gun. (Look up the T-80, although I think I've read that it's actually the T-74.)

And there are also rocket-assisted artillery shells of 155 mm and probably other calibers in use around the world.

Beam cannons--seems unlikely given the very different mode of operation. Unless you loaded through the muzzle, you'd have to design a breech mechanism specifically to handle shells/missiles.

[1st Border Red Devil]

And there are also rocket-assisted artillery shells of 155 mm and probably other calibers in use around the world.

Yes, enhanced artillery. I believe the US Army is working on a Radar or LiDAR active homing round. I also believe there are currently wire-guided/semi-active artillery rounds.

[Boxer]

Beam cannons--seems unlikely given the very different mode of operation. Unless you loaded through the muzzle, you'd have to design a breech mechanism specifically to handle shells/missiles.

A shame. This would explain the SDF-1's weapons paradox quite well....

[ewilen]

And there are also rocket-assisted artillery shells of 155 mm and probably other calibers in use around the world.

Yes, enhanced artillery. I believe the US Army is working on a Radar or LiDAR active homing round. I also believe there are currently wire-guided/semi-active artillery rounds.

Copperhead is something like this, but it requires a designator.

[ewilen]

Beam cannons--seems unlikely given the very different mode of operation. Unless you loaded through the muzzle, you'd have to design a breech mechanism specifically to handle shells/missiles.

A shame. This would explain the SDF-1's weapons paradox quite well....

Well, again, it's just my opinion.

Consider that the main reason for long tube artillery is to allow the propellant to fully expand and push the shell as fast as possible. A laser really has no need for a hollow tube at all. A rail gun might, if the magnetic propulsion mechanism extends all the way up the tube. Similarly for a particle beam, although it might be difficult to design a barrel that works for both modes--the ideal diameter might not be compatible, and the mechanisms might be damaged by firing a rocket through them, let alone an artillery round.

But if you spend enough money, I'm sure you can make dual-mode cannons.

[Aurel Tristen]

Just a note. The main cannons aren't railguns. However there are railguns in the arm units.

[cyde01]

Hi all, guy who never posts but visits these boards regularly (mostly just for news). To clarify, in the Japanese dialogue, Shin refers to the RHE shells as "hannou dan," which translates to thermonuclear shell in English. For those of you who aren't familiar with the language, in the first ep, when the engineer tells Focker that the thermonuclear engines aren't ready, he refers to them as "hannou engine." Hannou means thermonuclear (although it can mean other things if you use different kanji). At any rate, the dialogue didn't mention anything about reaction weaponry, but I haven't done my homework enough to know what reaction weaponry is.

edit: gah! sorry, looks like I made a mistake. Please disregard what I wrote above. Anyway, the word for reaction in Japanese is pronounced "hannou." Shin uses this word to refer to the shells fired by the monster. In ep1, the mechanic also uses this word when talking about thermonuclear engines. This leads me to believe that "hannou" is also the Japanese word for thermonuclear, or a kind of military slang refering to something that is thermonuclear (instead of saying thermonuclear reaction engines, they say reaction engines, etc). I have no idea whether Macross is the only thing Japanese that uses this term this way or not, and I have no idea whether "reaction weaponry" is really an accurate translation, or if it is technologically different than regular nuclear weaponry. Any Japanese speakers who can shed some light?

Edited November 15, 2004 by cyde01