MZero Ep. 5 *SPOILER THREAD*

[Keith]

Screw torrent links, let's have some freaky synopsies. How does aries die? What do Sara & Shin use to fly into space with?

[Macross_Fanboy]

I'm pretty sure Sara and Shin fly off into space in a Spiritia bubble as seen in the 4th ep when the bubble saves them from plummeting to their deaths.

[azrael]

How does aries die? What do Sara & Shin use to fly into space with?

Aries dies from blood lost and probably internal bleeding. She received those injuries when she protected Dr. Hassford from falling debris.

As for a synopsis, I'll wait for a sub to come. There is some dialogue which I can't really make out, but it's all to make Sara use AFOS.

[Macross_Fanboy]

How does aries die? What do Sara & Shin use to fly into space with?

Aries dies from blood lost and probably internal bleeding. She received those injuries when she protected Dr. Hassford from falling debris.

As for a synopsis, I'll wait for a sub to come. There is some dialogue which I can't really make out, but it's all to make Sara use AFOS.

Do we see Roy by Aries's side as she dies? I'd like to see an emotional Focker....or do I and all of us really want to see a softy?

[eevli]

ed2k://|file|[a9][macross_zero][005][jap_chn][1200k][ac3].avi|426782720|E2EB32B5F5C54EB716384BC8D160E2D4|h=QY4XXFTNIKKPAJT23MOIZ263WAIYTPXJ|/

Wow...

Wait, now what happened?

[eevli]

ed2k://|file|[a9][macross_zero][005][jap_chn][1200k][ac3].avi|426782720|E2EB32B5F5C54EB716384BC8D160E2D4|h=QY4XXFTNIKKPAJT23MOIZ263WAIYTPXJ|/

[BlueMax]

Ladies and Gents, I currently only have the URL to a CHINESE fansub.

here it is:

http://bt1.greedland.net/download.php?btId=107900

[Seven]

So is there any part in this episode where they "connect the dots" per say and explain any connections between the AFOS, people of Mayan, and the Supervision Army/Zentradi? Or is this left up in the air for everyone to draw their own conclusions from the previous episodes? All the talk of bird people and fish people has got me confused.

I was really hoping Kawamori would use Zero as a opportunity to make a prelude story that ties into the original Macross, but alas it looks like it is more of a side story. I remember how Kawamori stated in an interview how everything will work out in Zero so that the general public and most of UN Spacy remains oblivious to the events... is that explained or shown in any way? You'd think the loss of an island, carrier, and several ships along with the deployment of a carrier group combined with major air/land/sea battles with the Anti-UN forces would be kind of hard to hide... that's alot of pilots, sailors, and marines they would have to keep quiet...

[BlueMax]

So is there any part in this episode where they "connect the dots" per say and explain any connections between the AFOS, people of Mayan, and the Supervision Army/Zentradi? Or is this left up in the air for everyone to draw their own conclusions from the previous episodes? All the talk of bird people and fish people has got me confused.

I was really hoping Kawamori would use Zero as a opportunity to make a prelude story that ties into the original Macross, but alas it looks like it is more of a side story. I remember how Kawamori stated in an interview how everything will work out in Zero so that the general public and most of UN Spacy remains oblivious to the events... is that explained or shown in any way? You'd think the loss of an island, carrier, and several ships along with the deployment of a carrier group combined with major air/land/sea battles with the Anti-UN forces would be kind of hard to hide... that's alot of pilots, sailors, and marines they would have to keep quiet...

If not for Roy Focker, this would be one totally standalone story..... no connection whatsover (to me anyway) to SDF: Macross

[Roy's Blues]

RahXephon anyone?

Edited October 23, 2004 by Roy's Blues

[Adventure]

NOTE: This is a spoiler thread, so lots of spoilers ahead in this message, if you don't want to be spoiled, don't read!

I thought all in all Vol. 5 was good... The dogfighting was amazing although I was a little disappointed by the way both Nora and Ivanov died (killed by the bird-human).

At the end it wasn't explained what the bird-human was... is it a proto-devlin? Or something to that extent?

But it was obvious that AFOS was planted on earth to be revived at some point to figure out whether the earth is a peaceful place yet, it asked Sara a series of questions about the current state of the earth before it sings the 'Song of Death'.

At the very end Aries told Focker it is very easy to save the world, it's 'love' - this is total tie in with what Macross stands for, I thought that was quite well put.

One thing that was quite puzzling was why did Shin also disappear? Sara told him to take care of the Mayan people, but yet it would appear that Sara came back and took Shin with her...

I wished that they had both died when the Monster fired at AFOS, it would've been more fitting some how (now we have to wonder where Sara and Shin went, hmpf!).

Although another idea I got was that, well, Mayan's stars were robbed by 'technology' and 'civilizatoin', so Sara and Shin went to space to become the stars that will watch over the Mayan people..

I would look forward to a possible movie edition, that would tie everything in, and possibly offer some answers...

[JLYC]

just watched it. i liked this episode alot actually....the flying ships didnt really bother me that much (sort of reminds me of laputa though), and to me it might be the sort of anti-gravity thing that Macross eventually uses to fly, so it's not too far of a stretch. the dog fights are also pretty intense- and the way nora and shin chases each other is kinda reminiscent of macross plus.

the only little downer was the ending i guess- it's really unclear what happened to sara or shin- they just disappeared into space.

i think an extra episode would really help to explain things better. but in this final episode there is never a dull/slow moment. there is not really much of a story but still, the emotional impact and action is there, at least for me. for some strange reason i really get to care about whether the characters died or not and it really held me in suspence because except for roy, everybody is up for fair game to get blown to pieces.

the music is also better than previous episodes- although the style of music is more akin to rahxephon/eva than macross, which is usually more pop than classical. it fits though, since in this macross there is no pop idol as the central character.

too bad dd and nora had to be killed by the birdman rather than roy and shin- but it doesnt matter cuz i think their deaths were execuated pretty well.

the drone on the plane seems to act just like an extra booster- although there also seem to be some sort of machine gun thingy that shin was going to use at the end but didnt get the chance.

[Zero Enna]

I would look forward to a possible movie edition, that would tie everything in, and possibly offer some answers...

The old animation marketing strategy: Make an Anime/Ova with a amazing history and/or animation, put a confuse or a non-sense ending and remake it with a movie...

[azrael]

At the end it wasn't explained what the bird-human was... is it a proto-devlin? Or something to that extent?

It was not a Protodevlin. It was more of a device (weapon/guardian/failsafe device/etc). Sara was the "pilot" of AFOS. It reacted to her feelings.

[Noyhauser]

I can see this being the next vs thread.

AFOS vs Glavil

[Effect]

Hmm wishfull thinking on my part but maybe Macross Zero was done, or strange ending to setup a new series which they might announce soon or at the start of the new year so it could be a tie in. Yeah I know, not likely.

Does the AFOS get a signel off or anything? Is it destroyed by the Monster?

[JLYC]

as another has said, the AFOS is itself a bio-mechanical kinda robot like eva or rhaxephon where sarah is the pilot. apparently it has the power to create life or destroy life depending how it's used. when sarah was first sucked into the thing a voice sounding like her father asked her if humans are living peacefully, and she said no, and then the song of destruction begins. it starts shooting rays that destroys everything, tahts when the military decided to blow it to hell using the monster. the monster destroyed parts of it but afos didnt die and rather disappeared into space. also it seems like whoever comes close to AFOS will experience extreme anger and frustratoin and become super violent.

now that i think about it....this episode sort of feels like macross vs eva or rahxephon. you have a big biomech robot with the ability to "tune" the world just like in those two series, and music is very important too in rahxephon.

at least we won't have any macross vs rahxephone threads because we all know that the latter will win..haha...

[Oihan]

...Definitely not the greatest episode.... I'm pretty disappointed with the way Macross Zero turned out.... Can't win them all though.....

[ewilen]

Major Jonathan asked in the non-spoiler thread if there's a VF-0B, so...

I didn't see one. If there was one, it featured far less prominently than any VF-1 variant I've ever seen (except possibly the VEFR). BTW, I don't even think the VF-0B is listed at macross.anime.net. So, is Hasegawa definitely making it or not?

[AlphaHX]

to me, zero looked like the beginning for the magical song attacks and proto-devlins in macross 7 instead of being "zero" to the original sdf macross series. it looks like kawamori is leaving the original sdf macross zentradi stuff behind and going more towards the macross 7 "magic" route.

there seems to be two types of macross, one for the old generation and one for the new. the old will be sdf macross and macross plus where theres no "magic" involved and has good ol' missiles to destroy the enemy, zentradies in this case.

then theres the macross 7 and macross zero where theres songs used for attacks and the main enemies are proto-devlins. i think macross plus and macross 7 back in 1995 is where things split. something tells me we'll not going to see the "magic" go away anytime soon.

im not surprised to see where macross zero headed in episode 5. a lot of the viewers for mzero would be from the "younger crowd" that saw macross 7. so being that its been several years later, the appeal for mzero will to be for the older (age wise) macross 7 fans taht now wants to see cool graphics and intense dogfight scenes. chances are, macross plus was the last of the "non magic" series of macross.

another thing i noticed. the really "weird" things didnt really happen till the last episode. maybe by bring back roy and having the vf-0, i think kawamori was hoping that the old sdf macross fans will jump on the "magic" bandwagon after watching mzero. it looks like an attempt to merge the sdf macross generation with the macross 7 generation.

just my 2 cents.

Edited October 24, 2004 by AlphaHX

[macplus]

to me, zero looked like the beginning for the magical song attacks and proto-devlins in macross 7 instead of being "zero" to the original sdf macross series. it looks like kawamori is leaving the original sdf macross zentradi stuff behind and going more towards the macross 7 "magic" route.

there seems to be two types of macross, one for the old generation and one for the new. the old will be sdf macross and macross plus where theres no "magic" involved and has good ol' missiles to destroy the enemy, zentradies in this case.

then theres the macross 7 and macross zero where theres songs used for attacks and the main enemies are proto-devlins. i think macross plus and macross 7 back in 1995 is where things split. something tells me we'll not going to see the "magic" go away anytime soon.

im not surprised to see where macross zero headed in episode 5. a lot of the viewers for mzero would be from the "younger crowd" that saw macross 7. so being that its been several years later, the appeal for mzero will to be for the older (age wise) macross 7 fans taht now wants to see cool graphics and intense dogfight scenes. chances are, macross plus was the last of the "non magic" series of macross.

another thing i noticed. the really "weird" things didnt really happen till the last episode. maybe by bring back roy and having the vf-0, i think kawamori was hoping that the old sdf macross fans will jump on the "magic" bandwagon after watching mzero. it looks like an attempt to merge the sdf macross generation with the macross 7 generation.

just my 2 cents.

If all that you said is true I'm not touching any more new macross... it's spoiled if it's gonna be like that, gotta check this new episode but if it's so magical I'm not gonna like it... I'm feeling bad now... my favorite franchise turned again into a sissy party.. what a shame

[Pat S]

I wasn't impressed with the story of 1-4, but enjoyed the dogfights. Same thing happened with episode 5 (though I still need to see a subbed version), but the way the Nora and DD went out was more of a let down than I expected.

[Seven]

as another has said, the AFOS is itself a bio-mechanical kinda robot like eva or rhaxephon where sarah is the pilot. apparently it has the power to create life or destroy life depending how it's used. when sarah was first sucked into the thing a voice sounding like her father asked her if humans are living peacefully, and she said no, and then the song of destruction begins. it starts shooting rays that destroys everything, tahts when the military decided to blow it to hell using the monster. the monster destroyed parts of it but afos didnt die and rather disappeared into space. also it seems like whoever comes close to AFOS will experience extreme anger and frustratoin and become super violent.

now that i think about it....this episode sort of feels like macross vs eva or rahxephon. you have a big biomech robot with the ability to "tune" the world just like in those two series, and music is very important too in rahxephon.

at least we won't have any macross vs rahxephone threads because we all know that the latter will win..haha...

My question is... in the original SDF Macross, they explain that there are ties between the DNA of the Zentradi and humanity... and AFOS has the capability to create life. So who created and put the AFOS on Earth? The Protoculture? Is the AFOS supposed to be a mechanism for the protoculture to raise sentient life on other worlds using a primary DNA template (which would explain the DNA similarities between humans and Zentradi)? I'm a little jumbled up... since the Zentradi were created as biogenetic weapons by the protoculture to war against the Supervision Army... what was the purpose behind AFOS... to continue their way of life if the galactic war got out of hand?

Thanks for any answers...

[azrael]

Major Jonathan asked in the non-spoiler thread if there's a VF-0B, so...

I didn't see one. If there was one, it featured far less prominently than any VF-1 variant I've ever seen (except possibly the VEFR). BTW, I don't even think the VF-0B is listed at macross.anime.net. So, is Hasegawa definitely making it or not?

Hasagawa made it as a custom (kinda like the Low-Viz Yamato VF-1). The VF-0B is suppose to be the VF-0A 2-seater (Hasagawa just called it the VF-0B to distinguish it from the A, S, and D models). Hasagawa has indeed made the VF-0B

You can find it here: http://www.hlj.com/scripts/hljpage.cgi?HSG65770

[Keith]

I hate to tell you, but there was "magic" in Macross Plus as well, what did you think Sharon Apple represented? As well as Myung's song at hte end....

All in all, from the sounds of this, I hope it is indeed a setup for a new seires/movie at the end. Though Kawamori loves leaving things open, maybe just this once we'll see it have a purpose with Shin & Sara returning for some reason or another. Perhaps the Protoculture "aren't" entirely whiped out afterall.

For those who don't like it, I honestly don't know what tell you. Macross has always had this style of balance for me, be it with giant aliens which are awakened to love & music, or giant flying bio-mecha (which I sure as hell don't see as a giant leap from the Zentradi in general). Anyone thinking Macross was just a hard war story needs to wake up to the fact that it was never intended to be. Gundam has Newtypes, Macross has Spiritia.

[Macross_Fanboy]

Ah, well, so far, it's pretty good, but not that great, definitely rushed. Roy getting all soft, well, I think we can say that he's really sad most of the times he's sober. I like the fact that Shin didn't get Nora, she was too good for him. But the Macross-cannon style death was awesome, I think it did her justice. Man, I was surprised at how much DD loved her when he went all berserk. DD died a pretty gruesome death, the badies went out nicely. Damn it, I would have like 40 minutes with like 30 seconds of credits.

[Aegis!]

OK I finally saw it.

Well , first of all I´ve gotta say .. WTH ? Secondly , to all those people that come to this thread with no real contribution please don´t come here until you´ve wathced it so we can all share our informed views .

Rigth now is pretty difficult to make up a coherent review of the episode so all that comes to mind is ... wonderfull , WEIRD , emotional , short.

going more deeply into it I think people are being VERY harsh on this final episode , of all the scenes that showed some kind ¨magic¨ ,as some would say , only really seemed to point at the nature of Protoculture ( something we´ve never really seen in depth in any other series) , in my point of view this episodes finally shows some kind of tie between humans and protoculture , although in a subtle manner.

All this poo about the AFOS being more close to M7´s protodeviln rather than what´s is shown in SDF Macross or DYRL is just a very limited view of what´s shown in the episode , first of all it clearly shows the AFOS as being a mechanical device in service for the Protoculture.

I regards to the flying ships I´ve gotta tell you that those carriers carry overtechnology from the Macross ( the reactor/engines shown being activated by the AFOS in the Azuka carrier are VERY reminiscent of the Macross´s levitation engines shown on both the TV series and M+) , it seems that protoculture technology is all connected , kinda like bluetooth of wifi ( remember the flying rocks ?) , same aplies to the anti-UN sub ( they stole overtechlogy) and the VF-0s.

nicely enough the ending seems to allude that shin and Sara go back to wherever the AFOS detected the last protoculture activity ( go back to source/base command).

ALso the the ¨mumbo jumbo¨ giant beam from the AFOS artifact is in more than way quite importat , not only is it similar to the Macross´s main gun attack but it could very well be the real reason behind the Zentrais coming (the AFOs is also shown to emit some kind of signal at some point , much similarly like the cyclops radar ...PCS signal anyone ?)

All in all it was quite good , awesome animation , M+´s beatiful fights , lots of good deaths and a lot of unanswered question that may very well direct to a movire edition or even a new series ( there´s a lot of ground set for some kind of alluded sequel)

[Macross_Fanboy]

Well, Shin did pick up a PCS signal when he was approaching the Auserdat. I see a few things that tie in to what we see in SDF Macross and DYRL? which is all pretty good, such as the Macross cannon-style gun of the AFOS, the Omni Directional Barrier, just some technological stuff, but still nice. I think Nora's and DD's deaths are among the best in Macross ever.

[azrael]

All in all it was quite good , awesome animation , M+´s beatiful fights , lots of good deaths and a lot of unanswered question that may very well direct to a movire edition or even a new series ( there´s a lot of ground set for some kind of alluded sequel)

The only gripe I have with it right now is that it felt rushed. When you think about it, the timespan of the series felt short. The last 3 episodes took place across 2-3 days, max. That just didn't feel right. But I'll look it over again once a sub comes out (sorry, I really want to know what Hasford and AFOS were saying to Sara).

[Macross_Fanboy]

All in all it was quite good , awesome animation , M+´s beatiful fights , lots of good deaths and a lot of unanswered question that may very well  direct to a movire edition or even a new series ( there´s a lot of ground set for some kind of alluded sequel)

The only gripe I have with it right now is that it felt rushed. When you think about it, the timespan of the series felt short. The last 3 episodes took place across 2-3 days, max. That just didn't feel right. But I'll look it over again once a sub comes out (sorry, I really want to know what Hasford and AFOS were saying to Sara).

I want to know what they're ALL saying. Although it's quite obvious that Aries told Roy she loved him as she died, cliched don't you all think? And I'm really interested in DD's dialouge after Nora died and then how Mao reaches out to Shin as he's plummeting towards the sea in the end.

[AlphaHX]

I hate to tell you, but there was "magic" in Macross Plus as well, what did you think Sharon Apple represented? As well as Myung's song at hte end....

All in all, from the sounds of this, I hope it is indeed a setup for a new seires/movie at the end. Though Kawamori loves leaving things open, maybe just this once we'll see it have a purpose with Shin & Sara returning for some reason or another. Perhaps the Protoculture "aren't" entirely whiped out afterall.

For those who don't like it, I honestly don't know what tell you. Macross has always had this style of balance for me, be it with giant aliens which are awakened to love & music, or giant flying bio-mecha (which I sure as hell don't see as a giant leap from the Zentradi in general). Anyone thinking Macross was just a hard war story needs to wake up to the fact that it was never intended to be. Gundam has Newtypes, Macross has Spiritia.

Sharon Apple representation can be percieved in many ways. Sure it could be "magic" but was not as explicit as it was represented in macross 7 imho. I personally did not see the "magic" in Myung's song in the end but if you did, cool with me. I have nothing against that.

Plus, i dont see why u would "hate" to tell me that as if its bad news. I never said that either the non magic series of magic was any better than the magic series. All i said was that it seemed to have appealed to difference audiences since they were more or less 15 years apart. the old sdf macross was for one generation and macross 7 was for another. this goes the same for many cartoons that are still continuing or remade today. ie he-man, transformer, teenage mutant ninja turtles, and so on and so forth. theyre just different since they appeal to different people. thats all, no worse, no better. just different.

As for those who didnt like it, its all preference. I dont know why u felt like ur the one being offended. For anyone who has percieved Macross to be a hard war story percieved it in that way. No biggie. There are many intepretations and views of one subject. Hard war story could be one of them. I dont see why ur perception is any better than theirs. i dont see why you need question their intelligence and think they need to "wake up" and realize something.

[AlphaHX]

Well , first of all I´ve gotta say .. WTH ? Secondly , to all those people that come to this thread with no real contribution please don´t come here until you´ve wathced it so we can all share our informed views .

Rigth now is pretty difficult to make up a coherent review of the episode so all that comes to mind is ... wonderfull , WEIRD , emotional , short.

going more deeply into it I think people are being VERY harsh on this final episode , of all the scenes that showed some kind ¨magic¨ ,as some would say , only really seemed to point at the nature of Protoculture ( something we´ve never really seen in depth in any other series) , in my point of view this episodes finally shows some kind of tie between humans and protoculture , although in a subtle manner.

All this poo about the AFOS being more close to M7´s protodeviln rather than what´s is shown in SDF Macross or DYRL is just a very limited view of what´s shown in the episode , first of all it clearly shows the AFOS as being a mechanical device in service for the Protoculture.

I regards to the flying ships I´ve gotta tell you that those carriers carry overtechnology from the Macross ( the reactor/engines shown being activated by the AFOS in the Azuka carrier are VERY reminiscent of the Macross´s levitation engines shown on both the TV series and M+) , it seems that protoculture technology is all connected , kinda like bluetooth of wifi ( remember the flying rocks ?) , same aplies to the anti-UN sub ( they stole overtechlogy) and the VF-0s.

nicely enough the ending seems to allude that shin and Sara go back to wherever the AFOS detected the last protoculture activity ( go back to source/base command).

ALso the the ¨mumbo jumbo¨ giant beam from the AFOS artifact is in more than way quite importat , not only is it similar to the Macross´s main gun attack but it could very well be the real reason behind the Zentrais coming (the AFOs is also shown to emit some kind of signal at some point , much similarly like the cyclops radar ...PCS signal anyone ?)

All in all it was quite good , awesome animation , M+´s beatiful fights , lots of good deaths and a lot of unanswered question that may very well direct to a movire edition or even a new series ( there´s a lot of ground set for some kind of alluded sequel)

for the most part, it looks like a lot have seen the chinese subbed version and theyre contributing what they can. i being one of them but understand maybe more than others since i can read minimalistic chinese. some views just might be off since they didnt understand it but oh well, the more the merrier.

i dont see how people are being "very harsh"... if they see something they dont like, they dont like it. seems logical to me. i didnt mind it at all. i actually thought it was decent but that obviously depends on my preference of whats good and whats not.

as far as other "magic" scenes are concern, imo mao being able to contact shin in the ship seemed pretty magical to me. maybe im just weird, but i dont usually have halographic figures of my friends talking to me when im in need of help.

the AFOS looked quite organic to me when Sara was inside. maybe it was just me. i should go watch it again. but i have to say the AFOS imo resembled a proto-devlin so i dont see it as "poo" as you would put it. i dont see how its a "limited" view, just different. im sorry that i dont share your point of view but i dont feel that mine is "limited" either. i dont see why people need to resort to questioning each other intelligence due to their "views".

i agree the animation was quite good. the fights were great too. hopefully we can see more macross in the future to further "tune" our views on where all of this heading. meanwhile with all we've got, one guess is as good as another until kawamori can fill us in with the details.

[ewilen]

I hate to tell you, but there was "magic" in Macross Plus as well, what did you think Sharon Apple represented? As well as Myung's song at hte end....

All in all, from the sounds of this, I hope it is indeed a setup for a new seires/movie at the end. Though Kawamori loves leaving things open, maybe just this once we'll see it have a purpose with Shin & Sara returning for some reason or another. Perhaps the Protoculture "aren't" entirely whiped out afterall.

For those who don't like it, I honestly don't know what tell you. Macross has always had this style of balance for me, be it with giant aliens which are awakened to love & music, or giant flying bio-mecha (which I sure as hell don't see as a giant leap from the Zentradi in general). Anyone thinking Macross was just a hard war story needs to wake up to the fact that it was never intended to be. Gundam has Newtypes, Macross has Spiritia.

Most of this is just your interpretation. Was Sharon "magical" or some combination of holograph and mind control? I'm agnostic.

Keith, I'm curious--what order did you see the various Macrosses in?

Yes, for those who can't stomach it, that's too bad. As far as the continuity is concerned, I'm not crazy about the direction taken in M7 and M0 (though it's hard to say until a translation of ep. 5 comes out); OTOH, I've found both quite enjoyable in and of themselves.

Was SDF Macross/DYRL a hard war story? Perhaps not--"music conquers all" isn't a hard war theme (although "culture shock" isn't alient to hard SF). Did it always have Spiritia--I doubt it, and I'd be surprised to find more than a handful of people who agreed with you on that point.

[Macross_Fanboy]

Spiritia was only called Spiritia in Macross 7 and from that, we can simply say floating rocks and ships are due to Anima Spiritia and all sorts of "nonsense" that only us Macross fans understand. I just spent about an hour explaining to my friend who's a hardcore Gundam fan about why some things happened in Macross Zero.

[Adventure]

Sara and Mao are not 'human'... that's all I can say.

You think normal humans can control AFOS?

The blood that flows in Mao's body is partly from AFOS, I suspect their whole family is not 'human'.

So I think it is okay if Mao and Sara did something 'magical'...

Anyways, just my $0.02.

Oh I forgot to say... when Sara was inside AFOS, she keep seeing 'Kadun', which are people who are 'possessed' by anger/rage. At the end Shin gave up his anger and put his life in the hands of Sara, that sort of broke the 'spell' that AFOS had on Sara and she could finally recognize Shin as who he is and not a Kadun. She saw all the valkyries as kadun and that's why she was firing at them...

Edited October 24, 2004 by Adventure