1/72 VF-1 booster launch vehicle

[Viceland]

I have recieved a few messages and requests on whether or not we are going to do the rest of the Launch Vehicle.

basically the real question is: How many members here would really want it?  Becaue that will really affect the pricing and feasibility of doing this.

It will cost approx $3600.00 just to sculpt this thing.  That includes Clear parts, detail parts and lots of time.

We sold approx 40 Boosters

Rails were less nearing about 30 total

So if these numbers stay consistant then it is possible to sell about 20.  I won't lie it will be expensive.  Probably around the $275 - $300.00 range.  This is just an estimate.

I also have to consider the costs of resin, Silicone, Screws, wires ect.  Plus paying someone to make the casts.  It all adds up.

So if there are members willing to commit to the project we can see if it canproceed.  just keep in mind that the more confirmed orders we get, the lower the price will be.

Rob

Fans of captain america's work, especially Booster and Rail owners, now know the Booter Launch Vehicle creation/production is on hold, if those fans ever want it to be taken off "hold" and into production one day, John & Rob must feel they have enough SERIOUS committed people that will poney up for one, or two...

Here's that AlphaHX picture again, to get booster/rail owners back in the mood... just imagine a completed set ...

Since Rob's February 26th post in quotes above, the following MW members have shown interest:

Ranger565

Viceland

Grayson72

Myersjessee (maybe 2)

azrhino

wwwmwww

Major Tom

ChristopherB

neptunesurvey

Neova

spellbinder99

wm cheng

cobywan

xstoys

Ghadrack

baxojayz (2)

THOR

jorawar b

newbie

Plus anyone else who showed interest by PM to Rob or John...

This is by no means an official list, it's just a quick overvue of the current situation.

I agree with cobywan, if an official tally is to be taken, a new thread should be started, with John and Rob's approval of course. I think Jesse has shown interest in taking up such a task earlier in the thread.

Hopefully enough people will commit so that Rob and John may reconsider putting the LV into production one day...

edit: list update

Edited March 10, 2005 by Viceland

[newbie]

count me in

[baxojayz]

When the rail was made available I didn't get it because I wanted it with the vehicle. I know it'll be big $$$, but will the rail be available WITH the vehicle?

[captain america]

If/when the LV is produced, there will be a limited set available with both the booster and launch pylon. Launch pylons by themselves are no longer available.

[robokochan]

As for producing this. At the moment I dont have the time to head up a project like this. And as John has stated we have to make it as risk free as possible.

Also right now my life is alittle chaotic. So I will be on and off the boards.

Rob

[jorawar_b]

take your time guys, im sure once you get eady to make it, you will have people ready to buy it.

[cool8or]

If the vehicule is produced, I want one for me.

[Viceland]

It doesn't look like this will be produced.

[cobywan]

This is indeed a real dissapointment for me. Maybe we can get someone else to pattern it. I know of at least three casters that can make it affordable with quality as well.

[Kylwell]

Is that the only refrence picture available?

[baxojayz]

The kit's been around. I'm sure there are tons of other pics if you use the search function.

[cobywan]

The kit's been around. I'm sure there are tons of other pics if you use the search function.

354516[/snapback]

I believe he means the drawing of the truck.

[Kylwell]

Yes, the truck. Booster I can get (I think I know somebody who has one) but some other views of the truck and booster handling mechanism would be nice.

Or I could just start drawing and see what works.

[robokochan]

There is only really one picture of the launch rail and truck. Actually the launch rail was made for this kit.

Rob

[captain america]

This is indeed a real dissapointment for me.  Maybe we can get someone else to pattern it.  I know of at least three casters that can make it affordable with quality as well.

354436[/snapback]

I feel that I must remind everyone that I had attempted on two different occasions to kick-start the Launch-vehicle preorders, but that on both occasions, the interest level had come up short.

This vehicle would be the largest, most labour and materials-intensive project among all my previous releases. Knowing that, and knowing that for every project I took preorders for in the past, roughly 10% of preorders fail to translate into sales (what I call the flake-factor.)

Had I undertaken the project without reaching a minimum-safe number of preorders, I would most likely have lost money. Though many times I don't mind going the extra mile to offer a project that I love, even if it isn't very lucrative, there are limits to what I can do; particularly when bills need to be paid.

[cool8or]

How many people was interested in the past for this kit? I'm ask for booster in other topic (I'm new in MW forum, I'm searching for a lot of kits)... if I can get the booster, the vehicule is indispensable (at least for me)

[jorawar_b]

Capt, I know I bug you about stuff here and there, but I must thank you for giving us the kits that you have already made. I know that a lot of people on the MW forum thank you for that.

I think you told me that the launch vehicle cost would be around 500.00 USD? I hope I am close to the number, if there is enough interest and say the deposit was high enough to weed out the people that didn't want to buy, like lets say 200.00 so show you that there are a few people serious enough, would you still do it, on your own time frame, so that the few who want a complete set can have one.

How many people would you need to make a limited run? I have always signed up and bought kits from you no matter what, and I can't wait to see whatelse you bring us.

[wm cheng]

This is indeed a real dissapointment for me.  Maybe we can get someone else to pattern it.  I know of at least three casters that can make it affordable with quality as well.

354436[/snapback]

I feel that I must remind everyone that I had attempted on two different occasions to kick-start the Launch-vehicle preorders, but that on both occasions, the interest level had come up short.

This vehicle would be the largest, most labour and materials-intensive project among all my previous releases. Knowing that, and knowing that for every project I took preorders for in the past, roughly 10% of preorders fail to translate into sales (what I call the flake-factor.)

Had I undertaken the project without reaching a minimum-safe number of preorders, I would most likely have lost money. Though many times I don't mind going the extra mile to offer a project that I love, even if it isn't very lucrative, there are limits to what I can do; particularly when bills need to be paid.

354649[/snapback]

Thanks John & Rob for bringing us this far!

I really appreciate your efforts.

I really love this booster/launch vehicle assembly - and I too was very dissapointed to find out that the interest level failed to reach minimum requirements. I just couldn't understand why not everyone who had a booster and launch rail would not want the vehicle as well?!

It could be the high costs associated with such a large cast (+$300 could be large chunk of change). How big would it be? - without working it out, it seems like its going to be a 14"X8"X3" hunk of resin! Is there any other materials to make the body out of? I've also seen these small toy tanks that when flipped upside down with the turrets removed could make convicing treads for the vehicle.

If anything changes, let me know - I am still very interested. Count me in (not one of the 10% fake factor!! )

I sincerely hope this project is not dead and that either you guys or someone picks up the torch and proceed to its natural conclusion (without losing money on it of course)

[captain america]

Hi guys.

The price estimate for the LV was in the area of $250-300.00, depending on whether I'd be able to sell 20-30 units. The problem was that on both attempts, I hadn't even been able to get to the 20-mark.

Will: yup, the main mass of the vehicle would indeed be in the area of 12" long, and closer to 14 with the overhang from the other components. I had contemplated somehow making the main body hollow to save on material, but this would only mean more manual layup time (hence higher $$) and above all, I felt that hollowing it out might seriously affect its sturdiness, which was simply not an option.

So in short, you'd have something like 3-4 lbs of resin for the vehicle, which is massive by almost any standards, and the exotherm created during the casting of these components would literally cook the molds into an unusable state very quickly... Mold life would most probably be reduced to 20-25 castings for the main body components.

In a nutshell, I never gave up on it; I just need the math to add-up. Win-win situation or bust.

[cobywan]

I reiterate. There are plenty of people who rotocast that can help. Who said you couldn't just do the pattern then let someone else cast? Federation Models or Starship Modeler have the means to do it. If you don't someone else just might. (Not me. My plate is full right now.)

If nothing else I can make a one off for myself.

[jorawar_b]

I think capt, we should try one more group buy thread and see if we can get at least 20 orders, this way if it we cannot then it we cannot and the end to this quest for the LV.

[captain america]

I reiterate.  There are plenty of people who rotocast that can help.  Who said you couldn't just do the pattern then let someone else cast?  Federation Models or Starship Modeler have the means to do it.  If you don't someone else just might. (Not me.  My plate is full right now.)

If nothing else I can make a one off for myself.

354663[/snapback]

The means is not the problem. The completed booster/pylon weighs-in at almost 1lb 9 ounces (0.69kg) by itself.

Problem 1: Rotocast parts, while light, are not as sturdy as either full-cast components, or glass/epoxy laminate structures. While the weight of the booster/pylon may not be an issue *right now*, I have observed that many different urethane resins, when placed under load for long periods of time, tend to sag or deform. The hollowed structures can, of course, be reinforced from within (urethane foam, resin pylon, metal armature, etc.) however, this leads to greater complexity, more manual work/tooling time, and thus, the few dollars that are saved by using less material are compensated with higher labor costs.

Problem 2: like any project, the more contractors are involved in the production of A given item, particularly a very short-run item like this one), the higher the end price will invariably be. Farming-out the casting was an option I had looked-at on many different occasions, but most all of the prices quoted to me (the most competitive ones anyway) were pretty much what I was able to do the parts for myself. Hence, when you add the need to ship patterns and test-shots back & forth, lag time, duty fees, you end up with yet another cost penalty.

Plus, in order to get an accurate casting quote, you first have to produce the masters from which to get the costing done from, which means spending the month or so to sculpt them. If the molding/casting quotes end-up exceeding projected costs, you've just alienated a number of customers for which the price is just too rich, thus potentially lowering total sales, and if there aren't enough preorders to keep it afloat, you end up with a very nice, and very expensive paperweight that cost you a month (or *MANY* months' wages.)... 1/32 Legioss anyone?

The short & skinny: sometimes when you want a very limited, hand-made model/piece of art, it's invariably going to be pricy, no matter how you cut-up the proverbial pie.

[neptunesurvey]

I'm still interested in 1 launch vehicle.

[cool8or]

Yes... if the price is lower than US$500, I can pay it.

[wwwmwww]

...1/32 Legioss anyone?

354688[/snapback]

Just for the record I'm still in for 1 launch vehicle if they ever get made.

And captain... I sure hope the 1/32 Legioss project wasn't all negative in your mind. Its a real work of art I still hope to see finished someday... even if you just finish it for yourself.

Happy Holidays,

Carl

[Ranger565]

problem is we know Cap is good for this, Only thing I can see him doing it is actually getting the money upfront. I know people hate this. and maybe Rob can hold the money or somthing. The kit would have to be made in a timely mannor If we were to do that. I mean with in 3 months or so. Once all the kits are made, he ships, and Rob or someoen gives him the cash. Only way I can see it be truly fair to Cap.

Cap. Honestly I would like to see and I am Serious, Small and Heavy Missle Pods for your 1/72 Battle pods, after you complete the the Figures for the pods.

I Know for a fact you will get 2 orders from me one small and one Heavy. I know its just an add on, but that is much more affordable and I think those of us who have your pods will buy it.

I could create a list of things I want to to see you make, but I want you to get what comming to you for a project, and not waste your time.

oh and a nice GPB-1 Armor would be nice. Hope you enjoy working on this stuff. I Know I enjoy your work

Thanks

[newbie]

I'm still interested in a launch vehicle.

[robokochan]

I think that this is something that we can take into consideration. At the moment I do not have the means to finacially support a project like this. I know that if John did do the project he would need the sculpting money up front. I do not mind holding money for people either if that is the course you wanted to take. And just to put a note on the sculpting it in three months...that would probably make it cost more. When you consider when someone works 8 - 12 hours a day just working on one piece..that can be grueling. I think a more feesable time frame for completeion would be about 5 months.

I know that there are other projects that will get worked on before this could take flight, so it would probably be about a year before we could start on it. But I cannot comment for what John will do. I will say that if people want it. And the money is there (Not to sound bad or anything...this is his livelyhood), it will get done.

Rob

[Grayson72]

I'm still in for 1

[Viceland]

I'm still in for 1

355373[/snapback]

Me too...

[Vermillion One]

I am interested in one launch vehicle as well.

[Kylwell]

Ah'm just wanting a booster so I can scratch the vehicle. Like I'll ever get around to that. Maybe I can talk HWR MKII to scratch one for me (in return for another favor).