STAR WARS EP III PICS

[Graham]

Personally, I've got no problem with things looking different between the PT & OT. It doesn't bother me at all.

But I do disagree with the line of reasoning that says it's due to the time difference. The 'to sell more toys' reasoning is far more plausible IMO .

Graham

[bsu legato]

Using real world examples, it's 2005 now, but 20 years ago in 1985 we still see a lot of the same planes, cars etc as we do today. Boeing 747 yep, F-15 Eagle yep, Porsche 911 yep all in use 20 years ago, all still in use and/or being manufactured to this day.

And yet less than 30 years seperate the two cars I posted earlier. Yet if you compare another fighter from 30 years ago....say the F14...to something like the F22 you start to see differences. And even a 2005 Porsche 911's resemblence to its 1975 ancestor is only skin deep.

[Sundown]

The VF-19 is as much an X-29 as the Naboo Royal Transport is an SR-71. In that they share a couple similarities, but the majority of the design is original. My point earlier is that people don't run around here calling the YF-19 a beige X-29 like someone earlier said the Naboo transport was just a chrome SR-71. They're different... hell Coruscant has similar architecture to Earth.. OMG ...  what a ripoff.

Actually, when I see the Naboo Transport, I see the exact opposite. The majority of the design is similar, and few elements are original. And in my opinion, this isn't a great way to design things in an alternate fantastical galaxy, especially when the movies prior did fine if not better by avoiding precisely this design methodology.

Irregardless, it's acknowledged by official sources, and I presume Chiang himself, that the transport is predominantly inspired by the SR-71. That pretty much ends any question of how much the Blackbird played into the Transport's design. Straight from the source, no less. Apparently neither Lucasfilms nor Chiang needed apologists to explain away or diminish the SR-71's influence.

I'm exaggerating the resemblance to the SR-71.

That's all I wanted you to say.

Then again, Lucasfilms' own words ended up being a whole lot more indicting than mine. My opinion remains that the Transport's design is weak visually because of it.

Lucas should have used the Seventh Sense kid instead of whats-his-name and perhaps a tree instead of Hayden C.

I'll agree with Max and say that Anakin's crying was excusable in the first movie. He's a kid. Ok, I question the judgement of portraying Anakin as that young, and I think we could have used a better actor, but the behavior of the character as written was tolerable for a kid of his age.

But Darth Vader as a whiny teen-- NO, NO, NO, NO, NO. I don't care how that plays on Luke being whiny himself-- It's just bad story-telling and tears down one of the greatest villians ever to grace the screen. The I-want-mommy-complex is just not something you pin on Darth Vader as his primary underlying psychological motivation. AOTC did more to weaken Vader as villian than Lucas ever did by showing him as a wrinkled, frail, old pasty guy.

After watching The Aviator, I'm back to thinking that De Caprio (I know, I know, blasphemy) would have made for a good Anakin. But De Caprio played Hughes just as how I'd like to have seen Anakin-- a man of amazing talent and abilities, of character, with a noble streak, whom even after you know his fate, you still end up rooting for him, hoping against hope, and delighting in his momentary triumphs against an impending doom. You liked the character. I think we should have been lured into liking Anakin.

But of course, this also requires a script that writes Anakin as something other than a shallow, conceited, whiny teenager. Anakin should have been portrayed noblely at some point, and had stature of his own among the Republic and the Jedi Council, before he became Dark Lord of the Sith... because of his character, real, identfiable, relatable and admirable qualities-- not just because he has a high count of midi-whatchamacallits and can swing a mean glowstick.

The truth, inevitably, is that styling changes are representative of sponsorship interests (gotta sell toys) and changing real worth aethetics. The series itself gets stuck trying to explain why things look so different.

I agree that changes in aesthetic sensibilities may force designers to "update" sequels or prequels visually.

But Star Wars is one francise I felt that such "updating" wasn't necessary, as the designs were so good that they still remain believable and compelling today. The irony is that the "updated" designs in th ePT actually draw more heavily from retro and outdated styles, some of which are used more for novelty's sake than the fact that they really do look better to an audience today.

I realize they needed to make some stylistic changes, but I just don't dig the direction they went, and the drastic departure from gritty... especially when the PT movies were supposed to be reflecting a universe only two decades younger.

Real reason the PT looks so different-- different artists, who didn't hold McQuarrie's styling up on a pedestal-- different visual direction, that wasn't the same as the one that used to guide and refine Lucas' raw vision-- and a Lucas who himself has changed since 1985 in taste and sensibilities.

-Al

Edited January 3, 2005 by Sundown

[Graham]

The same could be said for Macross, where we've seen a huge amount of different variable fights in a relatively short amount of time.

Actually, there's comparitively few mecha in Macross, compared with many other mecha animes. Plus VFs in Macross tend to stay in service for around 10 years or longer before being replaced by a newer model.

I've always thought Kawamori kept things quite realistic this way (well as realistic as an anime about giant transforming robots can be) by having relatively few VF designs and keeping them in service for a realstic length of time.

Compare this with any Gundam series, where it seems new Mobile Suits are intruduced on a nearly weekly basis.

Main VFs

VF-1 = 2009 to 2020.

VF-4 = 2020 to 2030.

VF-5000 = mid-2020s to 2030 (along with VF-4).

VF-11 = 2030 to 204?

VF-19 = 204? to 20??.

Special Forces VFs

VF-17 = Mid-2030s to mid-to-late 2040s

VF-22 = mid-to-ate 2040s to 20??

Of cource there are other specialised VAs & VBs as well as low cost lightweight VFs for colony planets, but I'm not listing them here.

Anway, back to discussing SW ep III.

Graham

[1st Border Red Devil]

Using real world examples, it's 2005 now, but 20 years ago in 1985 we still see a lot of the same planes, cars etc as we do today. Boeing 747 yep, F-15 Eagle yep, Porsche 911 yep all in use 20 years ago, all still in use and/or being manufactured to this day.

Actually Graham,

thats kinda flawed. You would definitely be able to tell the difference in design aesthetics between say 1942 and 1962. Thats partially what is happening in SW is the revolution in military technology after such a long stagnancy. Im assuming that Palpatine was talking about the last Great Sith War some 1000 yrs before Attack of the Clones. Thats why things changed so radically after the begining of The Clone Wars.

In the last 20 yrs, we have not had another massive revolution in military technology. Most of our changes have been in informational technology and now medical technology. If we fight another massive World War that frags a good portion of the planet, you might very well see another massive shift in design though its unlikely.

[Black Valkyrie]

One thing that bothers me why didn`t Anakin get a mechno hand like Luke ?!

[zeo-mare]

maybe they did not have them yet, while we look at star wars and think that universe has everything maybe it is more like the real world (and i use that term lightly) maybe they are advanced and all but some things are still being developed and perfected such as mechnical arms and legs for people that look real.

[USCOLMRNE]

The same could be said for Macross, where we've seen a huge amount of different variable fights in a relatively short amount of time.

Actually, there's comparitively few mecha in Macross, compared with many other mecha animes. Plus VFs in Macross tend to stay in service for around 10 years or longer before being replaced by a newer model.

I've always thought Kawamori kept things quite realistic this way (well as realistic as an anime about giant transforming robots can be) by having relatively few VF designs and keeping them in service for a realstic length of time.

Compare this with any Gundam series, where it seems new Mobile Suits are intruduced on a nearly weekly basis.

Main VFs

VF-1 = 2009 to 2020.

VF-4 = 2020 to 2030.

VF-5000 = mid-2020s to 2030 (along with VF-4).

VF-11 = 2030 to 204?

VF-19 = 204? to 20??.

Special Forces VFs

VF-17 = Mid-2030s to mid-to-late 2040s

VF-22 = mid-to-ate 2040s to 20??

Of cource there are other specialised VAs & VBs as well as low cost lightweight VFs for colony planets, but I'm not listing them here.

Anway, back to discussing SW ep III.

Graham

I think the VF-19 intialy went into service probably around mid 2050's since the whole UN Spacy fleet was full of VF-11 Thunderbolts............ OH WAIT ITS A STAR WARS TOPIC!!!, I agree with Graham on how technology changed like crazy, the clone wars era seems to be more advanced than the times of the rebellion

[Black Valkyrie]

I wonder if you guys still collect SW figures ?

[zeo-mare]

not anymore for me, i used to have a ton of SW figures when i was young (wish i still had them they are worth a fortune). as for all the different in technolgy , you can also say that around the time of the clone wars when the sith began taking power and ultimately when palpatine does gain the empire, that in his vanity to create a army worthy of himself ushers in a whole new era of technological revolution, coupled with the massive amounts of aliens worlds littered through out the Star Wars universe that have there own technology and economic trade would contribute to all the stuff you see flying around in the SW universe. i mean look at earth when you go out the door and into stores it is vehicles and stuff that are manufactered from all over the world. when you think how close and acessible all the worlds seem in the SW universe, importing and exporting technology (ships, vehicles, droids, weapons, etc) is probably very common for economic reasons which would explain alot of the stuff you see.

Edited January 3, 2005 by zeo-mare

[Duke Togo]

One thing that bothers me why didn`t Anakin get a mechno hand like Luke ?!

Who's to say he didn't? Has anyone seen a shot of the hand exposed in III?

[bsu legato]

No, there's a point to Anakin not getting a nice replacement hand like Luke did. In the Annotated Scripts (and I believe this is repeated in the ESB commentary) it is pointed out that they took care to show that Luke's new hand was as good as his real one so that it would not be "creepy" in any way when he puts his arm around Leia. He has recovered from his symbolic castration and is a whole man again.

Anakin on the other hand (har har) is quite the opposite. His dismemberment at Dooku's saber is the beginning of the loss of his humanity. He will carry the scars of that encounter through the next three years until he finally gets the opportunity to take sweet sweet revenge on Dooku. Anakin does not get a nice hand because he is on the road to becoming Darth Vader.

Or does that need some sort of "Spoiler" tag?

[Radd]

I think the VF-19 intialy went into service probably around mid 2050's since the whole UN Spacy fleet was full of VF-11 Thunderbolts............ OH WAIT ITS A STAR WARS TOPIC!!!, I agree with Graham on how technology changed like crazy, the clone wars era seems to be more advanced than the times of the rebellion

I disagree with the idea that technology changed too fast between the beginning of the Prequels, and A New Hope for many of the reasons already stated by others. The Republic was forcibly brought out of a period of stagnation and beauracracy from wich little advancement had been made in ages. At the same time, it was also a period of class and style over usability.

Also, Luke is supposed to be 18 at the time of ANH, isn't he? That's nearly 20 years from the end of Episode III. How old was Anakin when Qui Gon and Obi-wan found him? We're looking at potentially 40+ years of time here, folks.

That's not to say things are perfect in the land of Lucas, my major gripe is that ships like the Y-Wing should be in service around the time of Episode III. That they're not seems kinda odd, given how old they seem to be at the time of the OT.

Of course, it's a huge galaxy, with many planets with their own armies and whatnot one would assume. I suppose it's not entirely beyond belief to think that the Y-Wings are in service, just not employed by those who take up the central role of the third movie.

I guess it would just make the two trilogies mesh a whole lot better if we saw some ships from the OT in the prequels, especially those that are portrayed as being old by the time of Luke and company.

clone wars era seems to be more advanced than the times of the rebellion

Is this comment based on anything, or do I need to post the car photos again?

As for the VF-19, it went into service during Macross 7, wich would make it's introduction 2046 at the very latest.

[Radd]

I also thought I'd just mention that I agree with Corey about Palpatine. He's definitely my favourite part of the prequels. I even loved that at the end of Episode I they make his election to Supreme Chancellor out to be something to celebrate.

[eugimon]

One thing that bothers me why didn`t Anakin get a mechno hand like Luke ?!

Who's to say he didn't? Has anyone seen a shot of the hand exposed in III?

It could also be part of anakin's fascination with things mechanical... unlike luke, he wanted to flaunt his artifical replacement.

[Coota0]

Using real world examples, it's 2005 now, but 20 years ago in 1985 we still see a lot of the same planes, cars etc as we do today. Boeing 747 yep, F-15 Eagle yep, Porsche 911 yep all in use 20 years ago, all still in use and/or being manufactured to this day.

Graham

But Compare 1965 to 1985, suddenly there seems to be a huge difference.

[Prime]

One thing that bothers me why didn`t Anakin get a mechno hand like Luke ?!

Who's to say he didn't? Has anyone seen a shot of the hand exposed in III?

Actually, in the clone wars comics he has a glove over what appears to be a normal looking hand.

[VF-1Guy]

I wonder if you guys still collect SW figures ?

I'm still not fully cured of the SW collecting affliction, but the disease is on its last legs.

I had all but the last series of figures when I was a kid. Like many of my generation, my early and middle childhood years were dominated by Star Wars. I moved on to G.I. Joe, Transformers and He-Man (shutter) in my middle to late childhood years. I sold all of this stuff at yard sales and flea markets.

I jumped back on the bandwagon when the PotF stuff was announced in '95. I even ran one of the early SW collecting websites when I was in college (in the days before Rebelscum, Yakface & Galactic Hunter). I ended up selling all this stuff before E1 came out.

I was sucked back in during the pre-E1 mania. I ended up buying all the figures that were released before the movie came out and even bought a few that were released after the movie came out. I sold all this off shortly after I stopped picking up figures.

I was sucked in yet again with the E2 figures. I bought about half of the initial figures and a few of the later figures. Yeah, I eventually ended up selling those too.

I dabbled again recently with the VotC Fett, Vader and Stormtrooper. I was successful in limiting myself to only picking up the Imperials. I don't think I'll end up selling these 3 since they are perfect versions of some of my favorite characters.

I think I'll be able to resist the urge to get the E3 figures since I only have a mild interest in the movie and since the figures I've seen so far are not all that appealing. Also, I think we all know by now what I would end up doing with the figures once I grew tired of them.

[eriku]

I dabbled again recently with the VotC Fett, Vader and Stormtrooper. I was successful in limiting myself to only picking up the Imperials. I don't think I'll end up selling these 3 since they are perfect versions of some of my favorite characters.

I think I'll be able to resist the urge to get the E3 figures since I only have a mild interest in the movie and since the figures I've seen so far are not all that appealing. Also, I think we all know by now what I would end up doing with the figures once I grew tired of them.

Same here. Aside from Yoda figures (I've got a thing for the little green guy in plastic) the only SW figures I've bought in the last couple years are from the VOTC line. I bought Chewie, Han, Luke, Yoda and Boba Fett and they are all pretty much the best figures of those characters. Luke is almost hobbit-sized though, which is kind of a bummer.

I haven't liked any of the ROTS figures I've seen so far either. I know I'll get Yoda, though, and if Grevious can have his arms combined so it looks like he has two, I'll pick him up as well.

I kind of like the Clones figures from the animated series better than most of the movie figures. I don't have any of them but they look really nice. The show is fantastic, too.

Edited January 3, 2005 by eriku

[zeo-mare]

I am kinda interested in a grevious figure as long as he looks nice, i have seen those nice star wars unleashed figures i know that they are not posable but grevious would make a cool one of those

[Black Valkyrie]

I dabbled again recently with the VotC Fett, Vader and Stormtrooper. I was successful in limiting myself to only picking up the Imperials. I don't think I'll end up selling these 3 since they are perfect versions of some of my favorite characters.

I think I'll be able to resist the urge to get the E3 figures since I only have a mild interest in the movie and since the figures I've seen so far are not all that appealing. Also, I think we all know by now what I would end up doing with the figures once I grew tired of them.

So how`s the quality of VotC ?, I also wish for SW-E3 figs especially Anakin and Vader.

[Black Valkyrie]

I got Vader and Boba Fett figures 95 edition, bought them in 98 SEALED, how much they worth, BTW I`m not gonna sell`em now.

[Max Jenius]

I love Anakin as a whiny prodigy. The Jedi keep him around to try and control him because he IS the vergance in the force. The chosen one. But, he lost his mother and blames himself for it, one could even say he blames the Jedi for it. That's what Vader was... a tragic and frail character beneath all the imposing armor. Everyone seems to want to make him some badass that's even MORE OBVIOUSLY EVIL which is just stupid IMHO. I like him as the whiny kid, Luke-like child that made the wrong choices. Mostly I like Obi-Wan kicking ass though. He was always my favorite.

I think we've got the vehicle design thing down. Its just simple aesthetics, but I think one of the reasons I do like it is because of the afforementioned car analogy.

Speaking of which;

When is the new Clone Wars coming?

http://toynewsi.com/index.php?catid=8&itemid=5540

[Duke Togo]

I'm a big Obi Wan fan here, too. Gonna be a glorious moment when he sends the "Chosen One" over the edge and into the lava. Obi Wan has been underrated for far too long. When it comes down to it, when the poo hits the fan, Obi Wan will be the last one standing.

[Jolly Rogers]

I got Vader and Boba Fett figures 95 edition, bought them in 98 SEALED, how much they worth, BTW I`m not gonna sell`em now.

I doubt the newer POTF figures (post 1980s) are worth any money unless they are one of those rare variants (short saber/long tray, brown vest, etc).

[Prime]

Gonna be a glorious moment when he sends the "Chosen One" over the edge and into the lava.

I wonder how big a cheer there will be when Kenobi chucks Anakin into the pit...

[Graham]

I wonder if you guys still collect SW figures ? 

Haven't bought any SW figs since about 1982.

However, when the OT DVDs were released, I did go on a spending spree and bought a whole heap of the SW Action Fleet ships.

I'm more of a spacecraft and robot guy than an action figure fan.

Graham

[GRAND CANNON]

I got Vader and Boba Fett figures 95 edition, bought them in 98 SEALED, how much they worth, BTW I`m not gonna sell`em now.

I doubt the newer POTF figures (post 1980s) are worth any money unless they are one of those rare variants (short saber/long tray, brown vest, etc).

There goes my plan of selling mine off for that Konig!!! I have too many of the POTF2 figures that need a new home.....even my short-saber/long tray, 1/2 photo, full circle, brown vest, orange card/green card figures......

[Jolly Rogers]

I think the release of Ep 3 in theaters will be the last chance to dump them... unless Lucas decides to make another trilogy.

[VF-1Guy]

I dabbled again recently with the VotC Fett, Vader and Stormtrooper. I was successful in limiting myself to only picking up the Imperials. I don't think I'll end up selling these 3 since they are perfect versions of some of my favorite characters.

I think I'll be able to resist the urge to get the E3 figures since I only have a mild interest in the movie and since the figures I've seen so far are not all that appealing. Also, I think we all know by now what I would end up doing with the figures once I grew tired of them.

So how`s the quality of VotC ?, I also wish for SW-E3 figs especially Anakin and Vader.

The quality on VotC figures are mixed. Each of them has different articulation, but I think only Luke has ball jointed hips. The Fett and Stormtrooper are really nice (ball jointed necks, elbows, ankles & knees along with some cut joints). Vader isn't as good with a ball jointed neck and knees along with cut elbows, waist, wrists & hips. The paint on Fett & Vader is excellent. The paint on the Stormtroopers is hit and miss. Vader suffers from a big fluffy cape with a huge neck cord. I reduced the length of the cord and added a clasp on the back of the cape to control the fullness.

[Duke Togo]

Gonna be a glorious moment when he sends the "Chosen One" over the edge and into the lava.

I wonder how big a cheer there will be when Kenobi chucks Anakin into the pit...

Oh, you know the whole audiance will erupt.

[Graham]

I'm a big Obi Wan fan here, too.

Me too. best character in the PT IMO.

Graham

[CoryHolmes]

Gonna be a glorious moment when he sends the "Chosen One" over the edge and into the lava.

I wonder how big a cheer there will be when Kenobi chucks Anakin into the pit...

Oh, you know the whole audiance will erupt.

Oh, yeah. That is gonna rock more than anything else that has rocked before.

In fact, that whole fight sequence will probably wind up being one of the best ever put down on celluloid/DV. Like I said before, I think it's going to be even better than Duel of the Fates.

[zeo-mare]

Oh, yeah. That is gonna rock more than anything else that has rocked before.

well maybe not as much as Jar jar getting killed

though i do admit i think this film is going to have the best saber sequences of the entire saga, obi vs anakin , anakin vs Dooku, Grevious vs everybody (I guess) not to mention Vaders battles, heck even palapatine is going to get to have a saber battle. i cannot wait.

[eugimon]

heh, if episode 3 turns out to be little more than one lightsaber battle after another culminating in a really long lightsaber battle, I for one will consider the last two abominations redeemed.