The Name Means Phoenix

[Knight26]

Yes, another redesign. This one was as a result of how well the Wolfsbane Redesign turned out, and then the Splicer 5000, the goog guys primary fighter ended up looking really bad by comparison IMHO. I agonized over this one for a while, I wanted to keep the overall configuration, but couldn't figure out where to start. I sketched out several possibilities, but nothing translated from the top view well. Then it hit me, the cockpit was the biggest failing of the old design, start there and let the rest flow from it. I then remembered the first redesigned cockpit from the Mosquito Redesign. It wasn't suitable for that craft but with some work it looks good on the new Splicer 5000. Right now I am working on the main fuselage and engine section, the cockpit interior will come later for now. I am also having issue with the wing design, getting it to mesh with the new rear end it proving to be more then a hassle then i thought. Any suggestions are welcome, especially when it comes to where to mount it. Ok onto the pictures, again any CONSTRUCTIVE C&C is appreciated. First, the original design.

[Knight26]

And the first progress shot on the new design: (editted the picture to fit the window better)

Edited September 11, 2004 by Knight26

[Graham]

Knight26, gotta say I don't like the original design at all. This is the first time I haven't liked one of your designs.

I'm not being nasty, but the style and coloration of the original design really really reminds me of some cheap plastic spaceship toy designed for 3 3/4" action figures. Sorry, that's just the impression it gives me.

The new design looks far better so far. You are definitely on the right track. A cool looking cockpit and nose section is very important in a fighter and the first one did not have that.

Graham

[Knight26]

Its funny you say that Graham. Ok confession time. The original Splicer 5000 design was a toy I built up out of old ROBOTIX parts. For years the design evolved over and over using just those old toys, then I started putting into CAD. The design therefore has been comprimised from the start, therefore so have all subsequent Splicer models, so they will have to be redone as well, as they all use a common cockpit module as well as other parts. In fact here is a picture of the original model, feel free to make fun of it, lol. I will post a quick pic of the progress I made tonight, mostly some more engine area work, added the wing and the remodelled weapons, plus some other parts of the old design.

[Knight26]

Ok, still a lot of work to go, but here it is with the wing, weapons, and a few other parts culled from the original, the tail plains and sensor pods. It still needs something though, I'm not sure what though, maybe it will come to me tonight. I'm still debating the positioning of the main cannons on the wing, I may keep it in the new position under the wing, or switch it back to over. Whatever I do the four wing guns will have to have their mounts remodeled. Will see where it goes. C&C are welcome.

[Zentrandude]

looks like a bad knock off of the pyro gx from the descent series

[DarkPhoenix]

Hey, nuffin' wrong with taking inspiration from the Pyro. Although that beautiful ship had a far stubbier nose.. and its missile racks on the tailfins.

[Knight26]

I get the Pyro comment a lot, thing is I built the original model around '91 and the first drawing in '92. I transfered to TURBOCAD in '93-'94 and still have files that show the design predates the original release of Descent. Therefore the fighter is not inspired in any part by the fighter from descent, though I admit that the resemblance is uncanny. But really, any small FSW with multiple weapons mounts and large engines will tend to look similar. I admit I loved playing the old Descent games, wish I could on my current machine, but it has issues running it, no idea why. Thing is I think one of the biggest reasons why I loved playing it so much was because of how much the main fighter resembled my splicer.

[~Duo~Trenten]

Hay Knight are those backwards Wolf's Dragoons logos on the wings?

[Knight26]

I think so, that is an old shot and I threw them on their as a place holder for a squadron logo.

[Greyryder]

Doesn't look that much like a Pyro. I've always liked the anhedral(sp) FSW design.

Assuming the wings are on there for atmospheric flight, you might consider giving it canards. The nose seems a little bare.

[Knight26]

Yeah, it is a transatm craft, hmm, where to put the canards though that they dont interefere with the cannons flanking the cockpit, as they are on arms, allows them to target off bore.

[Knight26]

Ok, made some small changes today, been busy with life. Mostly I worked on the cockpit, cutting out the tub, installing the seats, the SIS walls, the main HDD, still need to add some more to the HDDs. I also have to add the WSO's HDD console and add the canopy controls. I am debating making it a split canopy again, any thoughts? ALso, as per greyryder's suggestion I added some canards. I don;t think these ones will stay, if I keep canards at all, any suggestions? The biggest problem with the canards will be placing them where they will not interfere with the two forward cannons, but like I said they do move independantly of the rest of the fighter, still if locked in place I would like them to have a clear line of fire. The design still seems to be missing something that I just can not put my finger on, anyone have any ideas?

[Zentrandude]

i think you should raise the cockpit up enough so there is some rearward visibity, make the intakes smaller or remove them, remove the guns off the sides of the cockpit that looks dangerous for the pilot. hopefully it should turn out as a fine long range heavy fightercraft.

[Greyryder]

Upon seeing the canards, maybe it wasn't such a good idea. Besides, if those cannon have variable eleveation, then you wouldn't want protrusions like that getting in their way. The only real place to put them would be directly below the guns, and that doesn't solve the problem of the spartan nose design.

Maybe play with the nose contours? It's about the only thing I can think of.

Don't listen to me. I'm still fighting with a design I need for my comic. Aircraft that can sprout legs aren't as easy to diesing as I had though.

[Kin]

The design in all looks nice but there are some little things I hope you won't take it as an insult with al respect.

I have a few tips:

1. I don't like the pill-formed objects attached to the rudders. Maybe you should remove it and make the rudders much longer.

2. My personal opinion, there's too much contrast in the color being used. Maybe you should lower the saturation.

3. Maybe you should make larger textures instead of tiling and repeating small ones.

[Wabbit]

With all due respect, but lose those canards FAST. If you are a pilot, you'd hate to see your view blocked at any angle, especially at the front..!

[Knight26]

update time:

Changes:

1) The canards went away and were replaced by a new set flanking the cockpit that the energy cannons are now hanging from

2) The tails were rebuilt with new sensor pods and it has taken a cruciform configuration. The Cruciform may or may not stay.

3) The reverse thrust exhausts and associated interior engine hardware has been added. No other mods as yet,

To be added:

1) will start back on the cockpit later, finish the interior and start on the exterior.

2) Exhaust vents will be added to the missile tubes

3) The engine interior walls will be built up, I have two ideas for this, as this model fighter uses an advanced 1st gen gravity drive, so the walls of the intake will either be smooth, or ribbed, haven't decided.

4) Will add thruster units across the hull, in the nose, tail, wing tips, dorsal and ventral surfaces, plus flanking thrusters.

5) Undercarriage design up.

6) Overhead docking mounts.

7) Atmospheric control surfaces on the main wings and canards.

Panel line the fighter, this will come towards the end.

Answers to Questions:

The textures are all temporary and are legacy to the old design, they will all be replaced. The cockpit does not need to be popped up, the interior has an SIS system similar to the YF-19's cockpit. I will do renders later showing thing, should look really good when it is done. Keep the C&C coming, I really do appreciate it. I still think the design is missing something, but I cannot put my finger on it, any thoughts?

Edited September 12, 2004 by Knight26

[Knight26]

Update again:

Changes:

1) The cockpit is all but finished, I may redo the seats, but am going to progress, and fix any small bugs later.

2) I added the ribs to the intakes of the engines, but that is still up to debate as to whether or not they will be retained.

3) I fixed the energy cannon mounts.

4) I fixed the ventral cruciform tails, they were just floating before.

5) Added a simple color map to the whole thing.

No other changes at this time. The design still seems to be missing somthing though, underside is great but something about the top is just bugging me. I'm going to do the missile vents next and then start on the manuevering thrusters. I may add a hump similar to the original's but I am not sure yet, any thoughts?

The pictures show two exterior views, and two of the inside of the cockpit, one from the pilot's seat looking down at the HDD and controls, the other from the WSO seat doing the same. You can just see the bottom of the HUD repeater in that picture, I am considering adding a control board back there, but it is cramped as is, and most controls can already be linked into the twin throttles. Besides, the WSOs don't usually use the physically controls.

[Chronocidal]

You know, I might be insane, but did you first introduce this design in the X-Wing Alliance modding community? I remember seeing this at X-Wing Legacy a few years back, I think...

[Knight26]

I may have the original, but I could never opt it.

[EXO]

It's pretty cool that you're actually taking people's advice. Some people put up threads only to show off but you're design is improving with the inputs you considered.

Are those tail fins and wings big enough? I'm no pilot so I wouldn't know...

[Knight26]

Update time:

1) Missile and torpedoes tubes in and walled.

2) Missile Exhaust Vents installed

3) Manuevering Jets are all in:

Nose: 14 vertical up, 14 vertical down, 35 lateral (each side)

Aft: 22 Vertical up, 22 vertical down, 49 lateral (each side)

"Canards (per)": 7 vertical up, 7 vertical down, 8 lateral

Wing tip pods: 14 dorsal, 21 ventral

Next Up:

Will start on the docking mounts tomorrow, and the undercarriage design. Then will do the atm control surfaces. I still think something needs to go on that aft dorsal surface above the engines though, any thoughts?

[Knight26]

aft dorsal view

[Vespaeda]

Wonderful design work!

It has proportions, curves and arrangement elements that suggest an SA-43 Hammerhead..a favorite tv space fighter of mine(or a 2-place bomber variant).

Kudos.

Vesp

[Max Jenius]

Man, that looks like a ton of other ships out there.

In a way, reminds me of the Hammerhead from Space: Above and Beyond.

I like your unconventional designs better than this one. This one just seems like... a sell out type... like the kind of ship I drew when I was in Jr. High. I'm seriously trying not to offend, but that's the first thing that springs to mind. Your 3d skills own me though.

Like the other one, I imagined being this huge ominous ship(a little on the square side.. but who cares right?) flyin through space way faster than it should be able to.

[Knight26]

Huh, never noticed the Hammerhead resemblence before, but you are right, man I loved SA:AB. Oh and just for the heck of it here is the registry view.

[Kin]

From a distance it really looks cool! But still the textures are too small, but I presume you're still working on it?

Great job!

[Knight26]

Max Jenius: Sell Out Design, that I do not get, I have always been a fan of FSWs, and other then the slight resemblance to the Hammerhead and Pyro GX it really doesn't look like any other space fighter I can think of. Except for the large number of guns and huge engines, but I would hardly call that selling out. Just so you know I am just curious as to what you mean, and any suggestions you would make to correct the sell-outed-ness of the design. (I can't believe I actually typed sell-outed-ness, lol.)

Kin: The only objects that currently hold a texture map other then color are the fins, the wing tip guns, the wing maunvering pods and the cockpit interior. Pretty much all of them but the cockpit textures will be replaced, which ones are you referring to? I will eventually, after all the modelling work is done creature texture maps for it, for individual parts, and they will be large.

Edited September 14, 2004 by Knight26

[Kin]

Max Jenius: Sell Out Design, that I do not get, I have always been a fan of FSWs, and other then the slight resemblance to the Hammerhead and Pyro GX it really doesn't look like any other space fighter I can think of. Except for the large number of guns and huge engines, but I would hardly call that selling out. Just so you know I am just curious as to what you mean, and any suggestions you would make to correct the sell-outed-ness of the design. (I can't believe I actually typed sell-outed-ness, lol.)

Kin: The only objects that currently hold a texture map other then color are the fins, the wing tip guns, the wing maunvering pods and the cockpit interior. Pretty much all of them but the cockpit textures will be replaced, which ones are you referring to? I will eventually, after all the modelling work is done creature texture maps for it, for individual parts, and they will be large.

Great! I'm looking forward when the model is finnished!

[Knight26]

Ok, I cranked this out real fast as a potential landing gear concept for the fighter. I currently have a skid on it, but I may change that to a more claw like landing pad, or on the outside wheels, but that is up for debate. THe skidn will be the easiest as then I do not have to model the doors. ANy thoughts?

[Knight26]

Preliminary nose gear concept, basically I just swapped around the parts and made a couple small modifications. Of course since I do not have the model on my work computer this is about all I can do until I get it home and install it, rescaling, adding details, etc... ANy comments?

[do not disturb]

more stuff huh?

this ones pretty friggin cool, maybe even theft worthy. i might consdier making your ship out of lego...yeah i'm a lego dork.

[Knight26]

more stuff huh?

this ones pretty friggin cool, maybe even theft worthy. i might consdier making your ship out of lego...yeah i'm a lego dork.

Haterist if you can make a good rendition of it out of lego, then I will pay you for one, I would love a good physical model of this design.

[do not disturb]

more stuff huh? 

this ones pretty friggin cool, maybe even theft worthy.    i might consdier making your ship out of lego...yeah i'm a lego dork. 

everything is do-able but the cockpit might be difficult to do since lego only makes so many different types of windscreens. the sand blue color you chose is cool but lego doesn't have enough pieces in sand blue as of yet cause its still a fairly new color thats been added to the palette.

i could make one somewhat similar(different windscreen but same basic design) with a combination of light and dark greys with the dark red highlights but it depends how detailed i make it.

i mostly build system scale ships(minifig scale) but if you want UCS scaled(ultra big almost GI joe figure scale), its not only going to take me weeks to build but just by looking at the pics, i know the piece count if going to be well over a 1000 pcs. again, the cockpit would still be a problem...one main reasons i hate lego.

added.

i'm going to steal this pic and show it to some dudes in my lego community and see what tey come up with for possible building options and a way around that windscreen.

Edited September 14, 2004 by haterist