Help me macrossworld

[SpacePirateNeko]

Im at wits end really , every single begining semester i end up not going to college ..mainly because of work hours which lead to laziness. I really dont know where to go or how to get there but i feel like everything i want to do in life is slipping by . I dont care about being famous or having tons of money all i really wanna do in life is artwork for games or movies or etc anything in that field. Every year i watch my chances slip by because i dont even know where to start so i turn to macrossworld which is filled with artists and creative people. I seriously would be happy just going to school and at least6 TRYING.

Now i live in california, and ive looked up all the local ( los angeles) BIG schools and no i dont have 12 thousand dollars a semester. Im 25 and had very high grades in HS ( more reason to be bitter) but i think im too old for scholarships. Does anyone know a good school around here that i can apply to that fits the bill. I mean i know i have to wait all the way until spring again..which is incredibly depressing. The only college ive ever attended was a few classes at el camino which amounts to little. Its depressing enough to have to wait all those months to apply again its such a waste of time. i dont know what to say please help.

I was accepted to SOVA a very good art school in NY when i was 18 and didnt have enough money 3 days before entry and they said i couldnt start without paying. Ever since then its been all downhill since then working jobs a labotomized monkey could handle...i feel like my mind is worthless

and any skills i had or could form are wasted. I know i know...thats LIFE..trust me i know. but like i said ...i would be happy just being down the path or in the direction i want, i just really need help or advice on how to get there step by step.

Any advice help would be appreciated.

[Hiriyu]

You may want to take a look at Platt College here in Pasadena/Eagle Rock. They have an extensive curriculum in fine arts, are reputable, and are very reasonable in terms of tuition costs.

Best of luck!

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

being an illustration major myself I think I can give some advice.

1-LOTS of life drawing. If your 25 now and havent been close to art school since 18, by all means man draw!!! Life drawing no photo.

2-bring a sketchbook everywhere you go. They tell us this so we draw a lot from what we obsserve and since the illustration business itself is very competitive.

Hope this helps man.

[Opus]

Go to the finacial aid office at your scool of choice. They'll tell you your options. You could also join the army to pay for school.

[the white drew carey]

If you're 25 or older most larger and some smaller universities will allow you to go to school as a returning/adult learner under their "Continuing Education" program. Most major universities will have an Adult Learner Center set up where someone can help you figure out what to do, when to do it and how to pay for it.

Contrary to what you may have heard, there are many federal, state and private assistance programs set up to help you return to school. Many schools recieve special government incentives for accepting adult learners, so they'll really try to find a way to get you in. Another benefit is that many schools do not, and cannot require you to take a test to get in. All you need to do is hold a certain grade-point average for a certain amount of time (or something similar) to prove you're serious, and you're good to go. Penn State calls it a "Provisional Period", but either way it's real credits you can put towards a degree.

Dont be a lazy ass. This is the perfect time for you to contact these schools in your area and ask to meet with someone about their Continuing Education programs. If one works out, you can be signed up for the spring semester (dealine is usually mid-october).

[JsARCLIGHT]

If you are hard up for college money joining the military for a hitch in exchange for uncle sucker footing a few of the larger bills really does help. Just make sure you suck at weapon marksmanship and navigation/orienteering otherwise you'll end up riding shotgun in a humvee out front of an armored division (like someone who shall remain nameless). Also if you (or mainly your parent/s) have good credit you can get nice student loans that come due like a bear sitting on your head when you graduate!

... just in case people wonder I myself did a 4 year hitch with the ol' Ironsides right out of high school and the big green money tank paid for a very hefty chunk of my college bills... my wife also did the GI Bill trip and she got to go to medical school. Except she had much better grades than I and a few grants when she went to college. I went to Chicago Art Institute on the other hand and sadly the other half of the bills became student loan payments.

[haku]

I guess the question to ask here is, "Do you really want to go to college?" I say that not to discourage you, but it seems you've been putting it off for a reason (and you gotta be honest w/ yourself about whether it's work or money). If you are serious, then make that commitment - don't mess around

Now, the second part of your post refers to schools. You actually have a lot of options - and practically no excuse *not* to take one of them. If money is seriously an issue for you, then you may need to pass on the private colleges. Those are pretty expensive. If you want to go to a public university, then think of choices like the UCs (UCLA, UCI, UCR, UCSB, UCSD, etc...) I listed the ones in southern cali. The prices are reasonable, prolly around 5K a year by now. There are cal states (CSU Pomona, CSUN, CSULA, CSULB, etc...)... which is cheaper... maybe 2/3s the price. This doesn't include room/board.. but if you live in the area, just commute - I did. And if you *really* want to save money.. then go to a junior college. You can't beat $13/unit. That's like... 300 bucks a year for tuition... Go there for 2 years.. get your IGETC (which covers your general education courses for a UC or Cal State) and get your degree from a university in the next 2 years. You end up saving two years of UC tuition.

Back to the money topic. If money is something that is hindering your decision, then don't let it be. If you can get scholarships, great - but I wouldn't count on them (by all means try though). What you *can* count on is financial aid. You can get grants if you truly are poor... and you can also get loans. On top of that, you can also be put on a work-study program which will get you a steady job (and usually these jobs pay a bit more than normal retail jobs since schools subsidize the wages). Grants alone will probably cover your tuition if you are at the end of the lower income bracket. The loans can pay for your rent/living expenses - which you may not need if you have a place to stay now.

Btw, you *don't* have to wait 'til fall to apply to college (that's only for a UC). You can get into a cal state or junior college for any semester (at least for san diego and pomona - i've had friends who have done this). For UC, ur outta luck. But if you have your heart set on going to a school that starts in fall '05, then you'll need to submit your application by novemberish. In the meantime, don't waste your year, go to a jc and get some credits so you *save* money by taking cheap classes. You just need to make sure they're transferable (talk w/ the school counselor).

Make sure you really think it'll be worth going.. don't waste years of your life on college just cuz.... A lot of ppl go and don't do anything with it. I personally feel college is a huge advantage in finding a job. It's a testament to employers about paying your dues... and unfortunately, thats how are society works. Someone w/ a 4 yr degree will have an advantage over you in most cases. Now, don't get me wrong, I work w/ plenty of people who are successful w/ a high school diploma... but the numbers aren't quite the same as those w/ a college degree.

Oh, and 25 is not an old age to begin. It's never too old to make things happen. My last bit of advice is if you decide to apply, go talk w/ a counselor. Go talk to a jc counselor... they'll see you for free and give you some guidance. If you want to ask me questions, you're more than welcome to pm me.

[JsARCLIGHT]

Also not to discourage you or anything but being the owner of a graphic media design firm I have to sadly admit that every one of the new hires I just picked up last year are all college grads. Not to sound too negative but comparing the portfolios and work experiences of grads versus really tallented non-grads for some reason to me the grads seem to possess more rounded skills and are usually open to the structure and demands of a professional art job. I used to think that talent alone would swing you in the art field when I was coming up in the ranks but when I turned more management than artist you could see the benefits of that very expensive piece of paper.

Also not to discourage you but most if not all mainline pro shops and houses really want to see a degree. They make exceptions for really, really talented people who do not have a degree but most of the time they favor the "college kids" over the "free range artists". The first "real job" I got out of college was in Texas and I was up against three other people for it... sadly the deal-maker for me getting hired was that I was a CAI grad and the owner of the shop was also a CAI grad. That piece of paper can open more doors than it seems in the modern world and at times the new saying of "you need a college degree to bus tables these days" is seemingly sad but true.

Edit: and this next part is going to totally negate my earlier advice but I also found out that art shops sometimes look down on military service on your resume. The second job I had after Texas I almost had to keep my military service a secret as the other folks who worked there had, let's say a somewhat "anti-military" slant. Then again you take one look at me today and compare me to a photo from 89 of me sitting in on a jeep with a rifle and the two of us could not be further apart.

Edited September 9, 2004 by JsARCLIGHT

[Wes]

Go to the finacial aid office at your scool of choice. They'll tell you your options. You could also join the army to pay for school.

No, GO NAVY!

But seriously, work on your time management. Plan out every 30 min sector of your day. I'm a senoir in Aerospace, and let me tell you, every 30 min counts! Keeping track and seeing the results helps you put your time to good use, and gets you off your butt. Also go to the gym - gets you into a motion-mindset, and most colleges have them free for students. You should surround yourself with motivated individuals with similar goals as well. I have had the hardest time finding them in my major, and it really makes my life hard...

[Pavlov's Cat]

As an "adult learner" myself and someone who really didn't do well in high school, I would have to tell you DO IT! I've found college to be more intellectually stimulating than high school ever was and there are grants and loans that you can apply for which come very easily and at a very low financing rate. Certain states require different things though, so research throughly. My suggestion for you though is to go the military route and make sure that you are recruited in ILL, TX, or MASS, these states offer a free ride at any state run or land grant univeristy to veterans recruited in their states. Some other states offer grants, PA offers a 3000 a year grant to veterans for intance.

If you choose to got the military route, the DOD offers college courses while you are deployed for free and will pay for 75% of tuition including books while not. Once you get out there is also the GI Bill which you will have to pay into for the first 6 months while you are active. 100 dollors out of each pay will turn into 985 dollars a month for 36 months of school, which the Veterans Administration will pay directly to you. This does wonders for those in Ill, Tx and MASS, with the state sponsored dealies, they get paid to go to school. The best thing about the GI Bill is that you only have to serve 36 months to qualify. The reserves also offer a comparable GI Bill but is considerably less money. Check with a recuiter to get exact amounts.

Just some options for you to ponder over.

[Mr March]

Sacrifice is the key. I'm 29 and have only been doing film for a little over a year, but the key to my involvment and continuing education has been sacrifice. Give up your holidays, give up your weekends, give up your new car, give up all that crap and throw yourself at your passion. When I was younger I went to college, got educated in business, and got a "real job" and learned the normal life is not for me. Luckily, I learned this very early in life and before being married with five kids or a 25 year mortage. Even more fortunate, I found something which I love doing...film. You already know what it is in life you want to do. You're already ahead.

So do whatever you have to, but accept a change in your life. Make a real, honest change and do whatever is necessary to get into what you love to do, regardless of whether it's school or starting at the bottom and working your way up.

Don't feel down. You're 25 and have your whole life ahead of you. Just be thankful you're not going through this when you're fifty.

[SpacePirateNeko]

Thanks alot for the help guys. Heres the thing money isnt a problem as far as living is concerned. I wouldnt be able to get money from any family sources as they havnt any and i keep no close family ties im pretty much on my own and thats one of the main things is basically i make around 30k a year ( before taxes ) so around 25k. However i make this much because i work horrible hours in a very stressful job. Thats one problem i cant substitute the job because i have to pay for ...well ..life. Its really a balance thing i mean taking one class a semester as i have in the past wont get me very far.

As for competition , im not worried, if im making enough to live and doing what i love , im happy. I guess the main reason to go to college has more to do with the way i work when it comes to art. I havnt drawn for ages, i almost fear it , i used to be very good but i get VERY frustrated when it comes to artwork. I usually predict failure before i get to it, i mean its odd i never worried about those things before but in the last few years its been like that. I know i dont NEED college i could get home from work and draw and paint for hours on end...but its not going to happen. Im at my best when im assigned a project to do...if not im a dreamer i can come up with 1000's of fascinating unique ideas...but it kills me that i cant even begin to get these down on paper. When im assigned a task im more apt to do it. Im also more apt to do things when im around people who are creative.

I remember being in AP art and that was the greatest creative time i ever had. I loved how we could be given an idea and then during review everyones artwork on the same subject would be 100% different. I mean i could be drawing right now...but im not...i mean , its not laziness ..its i dont know , fear. Im an idea person, maybe too much a dreamer, im always coming out with great ideas people seem to enjoy but it never goes beyond that. Something changed when i went back to japan, after meeting street musicians and i dont know the people in general. I have this drive now...i have to do this. Yea if i really wanted to id be doing it....trust me i really want to i always do. I also always let things get in the way.

I really want to go to Pasadena....its probably $$$ and i need to make a new portfolio. I left all my old artwork with a friend when i moved to cali 4 years ago...who then promtly vanished with all of it and my guitars , lots of other stuff. I live in Lakewood right near long beach , any schools there that are reasonable and not an arm and a leg to get into? I really wish i hadnt missed el caminos add in cut off date , at least i could take a class to help build a portfolio. Anyway thanks alot guys , pls go on if you have anymore help, this website is one of the best outlets of creative people around.

I think tomorrow when i wake up...i will be pulling out the sketch book again , not let anything get in my way...no fears, no age , no 95 degree LA heat with no air conditioner so im stuck to my chair......nothing

sorry its late and this sounds more liek rambling..... someone i know just gave me the full $$$$ pofessional version of maya im going to install it now and work my way through it

the most militiristic youll ever find me is playing joint operations =)

Edited September 9, 2004 by SpacePirateNeko

[SpacePirateNeko]

Sacrifice is the key. I'm 29 and have only been doing film for a little over a year, but the key to my involvment and continuing education has been sacrifice. Give up your holidays, give up your weekends, give up your new car, give up all that crap and throw yourself at your passion. When I was younger I went to college, got educated in business, and got a "real job" and learned the normal life is not for me. Luckily, I learned this very early in life and before being married with five kids or a 25 year mortage. Even more fortunate, I found something which I love doing...film. You already know what it is in life you want to do. You're already ahead.

So do whatever you have to, but accept a change in your life. Make a real, honest change and do whatever is necessary to get into what you love to do, regardless of whether it's school or starting at the bottom and working your way up.

Don't feel down. You're 25 and have your whole life ahead of you. Just be thankful you're not going through this when you're fifty.

Ive always said that to really be an artist or musician you have to be unemployed. That would be impossible to me since i live alone and recieve no money from anyone but me. Right now i really hate where i work and who i work for but its the best job i ever had because it actually makes money. I work for the federal govt doing decurity in teh airport but i know the job ( which is of course important to protect people) was created for no other reason then politics. You would be amazed at how inept this orginization is, if the govt was so concerned with public safety you think they could pay for x rays that didnt break down every 20 minutes, or covers for the screens so the sunlight didnt block out images. We actually everyday at noonish have to duct tape umbrellas or pieces or cardboard to teh top of the monitors to keep out sunlight because the govt refuses to pay money. Very classy. The point mainly being i dont want to be here in a year , but at the same time it beats working at restruants for pennies.

I hope i can at least get the job part time. Right now i wake up at 230 am work from 4 am until 230 pm. Its a very stressful job as everyone pretty much hates you...passengers, and other airport employees, especially pilots, just for trying to protect them. I cant blame them all the time since the job is filled with so many inept people whio i cant for the life of me understand how they got a job like this ( though i probably can). I think part time is closed right now i have to check again, the current part timers were made to be full time because of lack of people.

Currently looking into a job which would require me to translate wire tappings from tape into type. The hours would be much more flexible and better on the head, and the pay actually higher. This would also put me more in control of time.

Thank you mr march btw, your post gave me some ideas.

[justvinnie]

well, if you don't mind a job change, most schools will offer you a substantial discount if you work for them at least half time. This is especially true in the public schools I have found. I work part time for my school (UT Austin) and earn more than enough to live off of as well as extra spending cash, and I don't even have to pay for tuition. I am also covered by their insurance benefit program. So I guess my advice is find out what the benefits are for the school you want to go to if you were an employee and if it's a sweet deal get a job there and then apply for admission. Being employed by the school will invariably guarantee admission and give you lots of benefits.

vinnie

[ewilen]

Another way to save money is to learn as much as possible (i.e., freshman and sophomore equivalent) at a community college. California community colleges aren't bad, from what I've seen (although the quality of the students is pretty mixed). Also, there's some pretty good flexibility in class times (i.e., night sections for a lot of classes), which could allow you to work and study at the same time.

So you could go to community college, take care of your general education requirements and prereqs for your major, then transfer to a 4-year college of your choice to get your B.A. Try to make use of counselling resources so you're ready to transfer--UC and Cal. State transfers are pretty easy because they lay things out for you clearly and have an interface program with the community colleges. Private schools, probably less so, but if you talk to their admissions offices you can find out what you need to know.

Also don't forget about the Lifetime Learning Credit and HOPE scholarship. Both are federal tax credits which can substantially lighten your financial burden.

[Solscud007]

Yeah as a recent graduate of UCI (last June) I must say go to school. Do what ever you can. I was lucky and my parents paid for the tuition. and Rent but living expenses required two jobs. I would get up at 4:30am to open up a gym in Newport Beach. leave at 10 to get to my 11am class. Get out of school at 5 and go to a theater at 6pm and get out from anywhere between 11pm-1am and do it over again.

I know people on financial aid of some kind are the first picks at on campus jobs. Work study students is what it is called. They are givien a larger discount or something cause they are working and studying on campus.

Go to Cal State Long Beach. My friend is a graphic design major there and he says the art program is rather good. He says it is third in Socal. 1 is Art Center, 2 is Otis, and 3 is CSULB.

I know the fear you mention I have it too. I am proud of my self taught photoshop skills that I feel are fairly advanced, to some here there is nothing I can bootleg haha (You know who you are) but when it comes to applying that to a job I am afraid that there are people out there who know more programs and have formal training.

I realize, from your post, that you are afraid of failure. But to me it is like puplic speaking. Many people are deathly afraid to say anything in class. I am fortunate that Boy Scouts provided me a place to find my voice and lose that fear. I feel that people who are afraid to speak/respond in class are usually afraid of soem kind of failure. Most cases they are afraid of making a fool of themselves. So often or not they jsut freeze. They rather not do what ever it is from answering a question in class to speaking in front of class. They freeze up like deer in headlights.

However I have come to realize in my 6 years of college, long story, that by not doing it speaking in front of people or you not doing your art is setting you back. It is your mind that thinks your a failure not other people. You must come to realize there will be people better than you. You can accept it and move on in different ways. You can be competitive and strive to be better or you can accept your decent talents and work with what you got. Cause doing nothing is the worse thing to do. If you try and fail so you fail. But you fail by not trying right? so jsut do it and get it out of the way and usually the result will be surprising. Hiding behind this illusion that you will fail only becomes failure. It always does. I hope and wish all teh best for you. You seem to beable to handle life well. School is a piece of cake compared to being able to sustain yourself in the real world. Best of Luck. Ishoukenme Benkyoushinasai.

[Phyrox]

The government WILL give you loan offers if you fill out a FAFSA. You will probably have to live frugally, but it can be done.

[eugimon]

if you live near long beach, check out cal state long beach.

cal states are really affordable, compared to the private schools.

and long beach, as well as cal state fullerton has some great fine art programs.

avoid cal poly pomona though... like the plague.. they've gone all graphic art and the dept has been take over by meglomaniacle director with myopic vision.

as some one who was at private schools and now finishing at cal poly pomona, here's some advice:

draw. draw all the time. draw all the time from life. don't copy other people's styles, especially not manga and comics. The guys who can do that stuff well, can draw from life well, and they make certain choices based on their knowledge... when people copy, they don't understand and they make odd anatomical mistakes and perspective mistakes.... IE liefield...

at private schools, they'll make you draw twice as much in the clases, and most students will go to all the extra studio time they can fit in.

most kids who go to public schools do not.

do this and the difference in schools won't matter.

Edited September 9, 2004 by eugimon

[EXO]

if you live near long beach, check out cal state long beach.

cal states are really affordable, compared to the public schools.

Hey I'm 5 minutes away from CSULB...

I used to stare at this sign my drafting teacher use to have in front of the class.

Quitting school after high school is occupational suicide.

[eugimon]

if you live near long beach, check out cal state long beach.

cal states are really affordable, compared to the public schools.

Hey I'm 5 minutes away from CSULB...

I used to stare at this sign my drafting teacher use to have in front of the class.

Quitting school after high school is occupational suicide.

man, meant private schools. cal state long beach is a public school... hahaha.

[yellowlightman]

Go to Cal State Long Beach. My friend is a graphic design major there and he says the art program is rather good. He says it is third in Socal. 1 is Art Center, 2 is Otis, and 3 is CSULB.

Definately don't count out the CSU's, they have some really good schools.

BobePat here on Macross World went to CSU Northridge in the art program (I think) so he might be able to give you some opinions about that school's program as well.

[Kin]

Hi, I'm also having some trouble avout my capabilities... I'm 25, I left my parents 3 years ago and rented an appartement... during that period I had alot of ups and downs.

First the companorked in went broke so I got unemployed, economic crisis, IT is starting to get saturated and as a Webdesigner I couldn't get many jobs cause they want people capable not just doing design but also programming. I had to deal with the fact I don't have any kind of specialism. I was getting unconfident about myself.

But it helped to talk with friends and other people.. It's suprising that many people had the same problem, that ugly gap in their lives. Many people also say maybe I was forcing myself too much to get a high level job and better of starting from low.

I hope this wil comfort you.

But if you want to make a good choice,

Programming (PHP, SQL etc)

Artdesign (Photoshop, Illustrator, 3D)

Color physics

Art history

Drawing on paper.

And ofcourse 80% of the things you learn should come from your own enthousiasm/research.

Edited September 9, 2004 by Kin

[Felix]

As a teacher and professor of the visual arts, I must say that the most important thing for you to do if you want to go to art school is to turn off your computers forget about Photoshop and Illustrator. Then sit down and draw everything. Especially life drawing, direct observation, and perspective work.

But, you say, isn't everything done on computers this day and age? Well, That is true on the tail end of stuff, but if you can't draw and design with a pencil and a piece of paper then forget about anything looking good with a computer. (Supressing urge to rant.)

The next step is to put together a portfolio of work. I have a good outline for a basic portfolio if you are interested. The key is to make sure that you have a variety of stuff. Drawing, painting, printmaking (the old fashioned kind), sculpture, and design should all be included. A good freshman portfolio should include at least twenty things, but remember to mix it up. The key to being a good artist is building skill across the different media.

Also, as mentioned before, talent and being a good artist do not always go hand in hand. I have given many failing grades to students with wonderful work because it was late or the students skipped studio. Nothing goes farther in the world of art than a good work ethic. I have seen moderatly talented students go on to have successful careers simply because they showed up to work on time and met deadlines. If you think that true art can't be rushed then you need to rethink how the world works.

This might sound discouraging, and to many it is, but if you can hack it chase those dreams. The art word is a wild and wonderful place to work. It is never dull or boring, and as long as you are willing to promote yourself you'll be fine.

[BoBe-Patt]

Go to Cal State Long Beach. My friend is a graphic design major there and he says the art program is rather good. He says it is third in Socal. 1 is Art Center, 2 is Otis, and 3 is CSULB.

Definately don't count out the CSU's, they have some really good schools.

BobePat here on Macross World went to CSU Northridge in the art program (I think) so he might be able to give you some opinions about that school's program as well.

hehe, thanx for the shout out! Anyway, yeah I'm an alumni at CSUN and graduated with a BA in arts. Well, when I was going there the art program was just getting better and better. Because of the whole earthquake thing back in 1993 the whole art department got destroyed and art classes ended up being held in trailers. So for the last two years of college, they finally finished building the art department and it expanded some classes. I would recommend going there and talking to David Moon as he pointed me in the right direction. He was my graphic design teacher and is now head of the Art department I believe. I jumped from doing graphic design, to 3D animation, to video editing, and to visual effects. All of my professors were helpful with what I wanted to do in the future. Another person you should talk to if you decide to go to CSUN is Ron Saito, he is one of my favorite professors. He helped me understand art in it's philosophical form and helped me work outside of the box even further. Another way to get a good job is internships. I have a friend who's interning at Cartoon Network and ended up getting hired after he graduated. So that helped him big time! Networking is also the key to getting your foot in the door. I hope this helps. PM me if you need some more advice n stuff.

[Mr March]

Sacrifice is the key.  I'm 29 and have only been doing film for a little over a year, but the key to my involvment and continuing education has been sacrifice.  Give up your holidays, give up your weekends, give up your new car, give up all that crap and throw yourself at your passion.  When I was younger I went to college, got educated in business, and got a "real job" and learned the normal life is not for me.  Luckily, I learned this very early in life and before being married with five kids or a 25 year mortage.  Even more fortunate, I found something which I love doing...film.  You already know what it is in life you want to do.  You're already ahead.

So do whatever you have to, but accept a change in your life.  Make a real, honest change and do whatever is necessary to get into what you love to do, regardless of whether it's school or starting at the bottom and working your way up.

Don't feel down.  You're 25 and have your whole life ahead of you.  Just be thankful you're not going through this when you're fifty.

Ive always said that to really be an artist or musician you have to be unemployed. That would be impossible to me since i live alone and recieve no money from anyone but me. Right now i really hate where i work and who i work for but its the best job i ever had because it actually makes money. I work for the federal govt doing decurity in teh airport but i know the job ( which is of course important to protect people) was created for no other reason then politics. You would be amazed at how inept this orginization is, if the govt was so concerned with public safety you think they could pay for x rays that didnt break down every 20 minutes, or covers for the screens so the sunlight didnt block out images. We actually everyday at noonish have to duct tape umbrellas or pieces or cardboard to teh top of the monitors to keep out sunlight because the govt refuses to pay money. Very classy. The point mainly being i dont want to be here in a year , but at the same time it beats working at restruants for pennies.

I hope i can at least get the job part time. Right now i wake up at 230 am work from 4 am until 230 pm. Its a very stressful job as everyone pretty much hates you...passengers, and other airport employees, especially pilots, just for trying to protect them. I cant blame them all the time since the job is filled with so many inept people whio i cant for the life of me understand how they got a job like this ( though i probably can). I think part time is closed right now i have to check again, the current part timers were made to be full time because of lack of people.

Currently looking into a job which would require me to translate wire tappings from tape into type. The hours would be much more flexible and better on the head, and the pay actually higher. This would also put me more in control of time.

Thank you mr march btw, your post gave me some ideas.

Well, I didn't have much to offer, but I'm glad what I said helped. And yes, a job with better hours certainly helps. A regular job, 8 to 4 leaves a lot of time open to pursue your real passion. And it leaves those all important weekends open.

[kanedaestes]

hello, i must say, if you really want to go to school, you can, and get a decent loan to pay it off with a good interest rate. i work right now at a certain student loan company, ahem saliiemae ahem, and i know that you can still finance your way through school, no matter how old you get. also if you do decide to go the military route, like i am, #1 air force is the best one if you just want to go to school and not be military all your life. they have the best living, and easiest basic training, i am looking forward to going soon. #2 try to get a job you will enjoy, my first pic, i hope i get it, is audio visual something or other, basically they are going to teach me how to work motion picture cameras, and editing, and lightning, set locations, and so forth, which is good since i am an aspiring director, plus they will pay for any other schooling i may want to do. be remember if you really want to go you can, it is easies than you think

[Blaine23]

I don't know jack about California art schools...

But I know what it's like to be 25 and "in between" art, real life, education, and fear. Look... first of all, lose the fear. You're only 25, not 50. Believe me, you will be 30 one day and you'll wonder where the time went.

Second, pick a school - not necessarily the best, but something you could afford if you work hard and possibly get a student loan.

Third, realize that "hanging out" is a luxury, just like anything else and be prepared to give up most of that free time to trying to finish your goal.

Fourth, try and get a job - even one that possibly pays less than your gov't gig - that is IN the field you want to work in. No one will ever "pluck" you from there to work in design or art. You have to get out of any safe zone in order to do what you want. There are cheap jobs in advertising, marketing, etc. Watch your local classified and get your ass in the door, even if it's in the mailroom.

What you don't realize is that though the field you want is artistic - you don't have to be world's greatest in order to have a very successful career. What employers look for primarily is character, loyalty, ambition, and brains. Who needs an artistic genius you cannot rely on? I've worked in several ad agencies and more often than not, the artists are primarily counted on to be professional and timely - more than they are expected to be award winners.

Believe in yourself and push yourself and you can make this happen. I know because I've done it and so have many others. You can lament that you're starting late or that others have it easier, but ultimately what happens next is up to you, Neko.

Just remember this before you start.

Starting to change your life is easy. The real trick is continuing at it for years and not falling into "safe zones."

Not trying to sound like Tony Robbins here - but the majority of your struggle is against yourself. Go do it.

Edited September 9, 2004 by Blaine23

[Beware of Blast]

Nah, screw education. I've been 25 before and was without a job for two full years... I had my art diploma back when I was 21. What I was taught in art college didn't mean jack shiat at all in the real advertising, comics, or fashion world - one of the true reason I went an art college in the first place. And why was college art education useless for me? First of all, it was all text books and hands-on work and practise that mattered nothing on the professional side of the creative industry.

So I used the rest of the money I had to buy good creative books, magazines, and etc, to learn to produce stuff that people (consumers) want to see. I work lowly 9 to 5 jobs with the least responsibility, so I afford to buy a computer and go home on time to practise on it soon after work. I borrowed money from my parents so I could afford an occasional precious hangout with friends. I lived with them (me parents) and paid cheap rent till I could find a decent paying job in the creative industry... that was back until I was reached 28. I did fringe design work on the side and moved on to better freelance design work. As I got better, I also got job offers as well as chance to take up fatter design projects.

The key to all this is to persevere. And be on time IF you can't be early. Don't be a fool. Why let others make money so easily off you when they don't ever wanna return the favor? Don't be a one trick pony my man. A real artist's life is no different from a beggar's. So learn to be an artist with the mind of a ruthless businessperson with balls of a murderer... then you WILL get some where.

Trust me I was there before. I've moved on.

Edited September 9, 2004 by Beware of Blast

[Agent ONE]

USMC

[Blaine23]

USMC

Definitely. They love artistic guys in the corps.

Nah, screw education. I've been 25 before and was without a job for two full years... I had my art diploma back when I was 21. What I was taught in art college didn't mean jack shiat at all in the real advertising, comics, or fashion world - one of the true reason I went an art college in the first place. And why was college art education useless for me? First of all, it was all text books and hands-on work and practise that mattered nothing on the professional side of the creative industry.

I wouldn't go so far as to say "screw education", but you do have a point. Working hard can get you alot of places without the bother. But I've never seen an education be a detriment to landing a great gig. If anything, those without usually wonder if it was their lack of a degree that cost them one.

What you are taught in school may not mean jack in the office, but it shows an HR goon that you are a not a quitter and that somebody out there reccommends you and puts the name of their university behind your own. I've seen a great many good candidates for jobs get turned down simply because a company didn't want to risk the uncertainty of hiring someone without a degree. It's always a shame and said candidate usually groans and wishes he'd never quit. When you think about how much time we waste in other stupid follies that we barely remember a year later - doesn't it make sense for a guy to go ahead and put that time and energy to make sure he's at least conisdered for the jobs he might want in the future?

Crap, I sound like my mother. But you get the point. College may not be really necessary, but that stupid piece of paper can mean a difference of 10K a year (or much, much more) in many jobs.

Edited September 9, 2004 by Blaine23

[JsARCLIGHT]

Actually this is quite funny but the guys in my platoon loved me and my artistic abilities. You quickly become everyone's favorite Corporal when you can draw whatever they wanted on the inside of their LBE vests, on their gear, etc. I remember "my work" got so infamous at one point that battalion sent out a notice to all units that "display of artwork or drawing on your gear is technically defacing it and will be punished". Despite that I spent a whole week painting a shark mouth and eyes on the front of one of the tanks just because a major wanted it.

In the military if you can A) tell jokes, B) draw things for your friends or C) buy beers or snacks for your friends you are instant gold.

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

BoB that last paragraph of yours was BRILLIANT!@

Though I do gotta disagree. I wouldn't say screw education it really depends where you go and how you take it. here @VCU I'm in love with the illustration program and trying to iron out all my flaws but at the same time we learn how to market ourselves in the business. It also helps that some of your teachers happen to be some of the famous dudes you see in communiocation arts magazine and numerous books all the time.

Thats just my IMHO.

[Beware of Blast]

Nah, screw education. I've been 25 before and was without a job for two full years... I had my art diploma back when I was 21. What I was taught in art college didn't mean jack shiat at all in the real advertising, comics, or fashion world - one of the true reason I went an art college in the first place. And why was college art education useless for me? First of all, it was all text books and hands-on work and practise that mattered nothing on the professional side of the creative industry.

I wouldn't go so far as to say "screw education", but you do have a point. Working hard can get you alot of places without the bother. But I've never seen an education be a detriment to landing a great gig. If anything, those without usually wonder if it was their lack of a degree that cost them one.

What you are taught in school may not mean jack in the office, but it shows an HR goon that you are a not a quitter and that somebody out there reccommends you and puts the name of their university behind your own. I've seen a great many good candidates for jobs get turned down simply because a company didn't want to risk the uncertainty of hiring someone without a degree. It's always a shame and said candidate usually groans and wishes he'd never quit. When you think about how much time we waste in other stupid follies that we barely remember a year later - doesn't it make sense for a guy to go ahead and put that time and energy to make sure he's at least conisdered for the jobs he might want in the future?

Crap, I sound like my mother. But you get the point. College may not be really necessary, but that stupid piece of paper can mean a difference of 10K a year (or much, much more) in many jobs.

You're right about the HR guys and that piece of paper... which is kind of sad actually, because many people I know, for example, that hold them know nothing about the equally important side of any creative work - namely the actual production side of things. I have seen just too many design and creative proposals land on my desk that are either too costly, too time consuming or just simply impossible to implement because no one bothered enough to think the whole project through. They expect the grunts clean up whatever they have overlooked everytime.

The HR goons may be quick to dismiss anyone with less than a degree as people who are quick to give up. Not everyone without a degree at least are inexperienced, inadequate or quitters. Not everyone who have dumped 12K a semester can land a 10K a year job without wasting anymore money or time looking for these jobs. What of the people who wasted no time by educating themselves with real hands-on experience? If only the HR goons can see beyond that piece of paper, the job market will be a better place.

[Beware of Blast]

BoB that last paragraph of yours was BRILLIANT!@

Though I do gotta disagree. I wouldn't say screw education it really depends where you go and how you take it. here @VCU I'm in love with the illustration program and trying to iron out all my flaws but at the same time we learn how to market ourselves in the business. It also helps that some of your teachers happen to be some of the famous dudes you see in communiocation arts magazine and numerous books all the time.

Thats just my IMHO.

I said screw education because the fact is, what you learn in art schools does not prepare one to handle work in the real world. People like Spacepirateneko may not have that time or money. One might as well start low, by making coffee in good ad agencies and work your way up - come to think of it. I'm glad that some of your teachers are people whose works appeared in the CA magazine. When you have the opportunity, milk that chance to learn every way you can.

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

BOB that would all depend on what you major in to be honest. Me I myself am majoring in Communications ARts/DEsign(CARD)-illustration track(emphasis). So we are taught by industry professionals as well as artists and the like. Heck George Pratt is a professor here at VCU now as well in the same department. With communications arts IMHO it gets you ready for the job world of art(teacher tells us about deadlines and being on time and other stuff you gotta deal with as well as which agencies and groups to join...then again she was an art director as well) and we learn a lot about marketing ourselves and the like.

Now if your a art major like a painter or sculptor.....then I think that is the realm you were talking about BoB. In my painting classes we never talked about the job market much or how to survive and last and how to start off. In my CA/illustration classes...we went the other direction and we learned how to draw and design every day and the job marketing portion of it as well. And a lot of famous artists do teach here in VCU. I can proudly say I think we got more in CA than we do in the PAPR(Painting And PRintmaking) department. Its kind of mindblowing realizing your hardcore teacher for 2 classes is actually someone you see all the time making mad money and showing up in magazxines in barnes n nobles.

But yes there is sometimes a bit of rivalry within departments and of course the money route shows up as well and battles over whgat true art is and whatnot.