Question about Political Content

[Agent ONE]

You know, I've never really noticed it before, but people on this board get offended WAAAAAAY too easily (or worry about others being offended WAAAAY too much). People don't always agree. Deal with it. It's part of what makes us who we are. If I have a link in my sig to (for example) www.michaelmooreisabigfathairywoman.com, you at least know where I'm coming from. It's just life. Maybe we SHOULD allow political/relegious/whatever content in our sigs, just so people will grow a spine and lighten up. Maybe not. I'm just brain-farting here. Anyway, have a nice day.

Yes, there are a lot of girlie-men around here... I blame society for making kids worthless and weak, when I reproduce and the superior genetics are passed on, I will only allow my children to view entertainment where the hero fully engages his oponent... None of this sissy "I'm telling on you" business. Just raw confrontation. That is what makes a man. We need to realize that we should all be Terminators not Termites.

*this post is not pointed at WDC.

[Myriad]

[GreatMoose]

Nah, WDC, I wasn't referring to you, just to a lot of the membership in general.

[Blaine23]

You know, I've never really noticed it before, but people on this board get offended WAAAAAAY too easily (or worry about others being offended WAAAAY too much). People don't always agree. Deal with it. It's part of what makes us who we are. If I have a link in my sig to (for example) www.michaelmooreisabigfathairywoman.com, you at least know where I'm coming from. It's just life. Maybe we SHOULD allow political/relegious/whatever content in our sigs, just so people will grow a spine and lighten up. Maybe not. I'm just brain-farting here. Anyway, have a nice day.

Why wouldn't Shawn and Graham want political or religious discussion on MW?

Well, it might be because we wouldn't all be grownups and accept each others opinions like adults have to in real life. I've seen members on here have a 10 page flame war over whether or not Macross 7 is "teh gay". I've seen members on here lose their cookies over whether or not Yamato is definitively better than Toynami or Bandai.

I won't even go into the very idea of 80+ pages of BS about HG and BW and Robotech, etc. Not that it's all heated debate - but it's space and space on the web costs Shawn money.

But let's be real here. Can any of you honestly think that the members around here wouldn't derail threads, flame each other, or act even stupider given the divisive nature of political and religious discussion? I don't think so. And I like all of you guys.

Now, since we aren't the guys paying for the site, it's up to us not to waste its space by filling it with crap. Anybody in this thread obviously gives a damn and wants to put in an opinion on what we want/don't want out of MW.

"Growing a spine" isn't what this is about. It's about not derailing MW with a bunch of political crap that you can get in a million other places on the web.

Now ChrisB's made his statement and removed his sig - which is fine by me... but I don't see any reason for him to be PO'd about it. He supports the Swift Boat Veterans for who they are and his father... but it's not anybody around here's fault that this particular group paid millions to advertise and became a CNN headline. If Michael Moore was my older, much fatter brother, I'd still think twice about putting his name or his movie anywhere around here. Because doing so would only lead to someone misinterpreting it and causing the kind of debate that has nothing to do with Macross.

Does that make this a sad world where certain individuals always misinterpret things and are always "too PC?" Maybe. But I don't think so. I think it means that ChrisB's sig was picked out because it was really, really, really easy to be misinterpreted as a 2004 election slogan. IMHO, Chris B didn't necessarily need to remove it, but a bit of clarification wouldn't have hurt either.

And ChrisB - if I had misinterpreted your sig and took offense to it - why would I want to PM you about it? One, I have no authority to tell you to remove it. Two, if it was a polical sig, then all I'd get is an argument - which is exactly what I don't want out of Japanese robot hobby site. I think it is best brought up here. In the end, no harm and no foul - and we all understand where you're coming from.

So ease up and accept that your father's former military career is a hot political topic and quit calling anybody here a p*ssy. That doesn't help anyone with anything.

I, for one, think Macrossworld is better without politics. Not because I'm worried about offending anybody - but because I don't want to have to wade through that crap to find out about Macross. Maybe that's selfish or weenie, but it makes sense in my head.

[EXO]

I don't think we've ever had a discussion about people's sigs... well until now...

but there's been more political, sexual, maybe even bestial stuff before...

We've had personal attacks on sigs... robotech sigs... and what have yous...

I'm surprised this one got singled out...

[ChristopherB]

And ChrisB - if I had misinterpreted your sig and took offense to it - why would I want to PM you about it?  One, I have no authority to tell you to remove it.  Two, if it was a polical sig, then all I'd get is an argument.

Blaine23

To summarize, you're first question for me is, "If someone misinterpreted my signature as being political, then why would they want to PM me first, as opposed to starting a thread."

I think the answer to that question is self evident. If you had made the incorrect assumption first of all, that a signature is political, when in fact it isn't, why would you want to create an entire thread over a misinterpretation? The easiest way to clear up an assumption is by going straight to the source, because the only person who could possibly clarify and correct your misinterpretation, is the source of the confusion. Not other MW members, and not a moderator.

To summarize, you're second question for me is, "Assuming that Christopher's signature is political, why would I want to contact him, after all, I assume that he will just argue with me."

As stated above, "How would know if it's political unless you ASK me???" Second of all, since I've never argued with you or anyone else via PM, how in the hell do you know that I would argue with you about this? Did you ever consider that a longstanding member such as myself, with no past history of being a trouble maker, might actually be able to carry on an intelligent converstion via PM?

In your second post, you feel as though you have the authority to speak for everyone here at MW. Somehow, you must have either polled every member or become clairvoyent, because you make the following completely unsubstantiated statement, and it's hard to respect someone that pulls crap like this out of their arse:

"I don't see the NRA as being a one party group. I can't imagine that it would potentially offend half the members here, unlike ChrisB's sig."

Do you have any other enlightened wisdom for us?

This thread was started by someone with a political axe to grind, who used my signature as a pretense to pretend as though he was asking a question for the benefit of all MW. Otherwise, I would have been contacted, a moderator would have been PM'ed, or a generic non-specific question posed.

Some people politely claimed that things they posted were not directed at the culprit of this thread, and I respect their wishes not to "flame anyone," but let me summarize some key phrases:

"www.dont-be-a-girlieman.com"

"Grow a spine and lighten up."

"I'm telling on you business."

"That is what makes a man."

"You should always address things at the lowest level."

This thread was never motivated by an altruistic desire to benefit Macross World. WDC doesn't like SBVT, and his preconceived notions are clearly stated in his posts, regardless of how much tries to act as though he only referenced them as a convenient example:

"I know they are about as much of a joke as Bush or Kerry."

"to what is obviously a political group with one single goal, which is the election/re-election of Bush at all costs."

Yes, I have a right to be pissed off, so don't presume that I have no reason to be. I'm intelligent enough to understand how someone like WDC could take my signature the wrong way.

Hopefully we can end this thread. In the future, let's please do the following, and perhaps we can prevent situations like this:

1.) If you have a question about someone's signature, and they haven't previously been an a-hole to you, PM them for clarification. MW member to MW member.

2.) If you have a generic policy question not covered by the rules, PM your favorite moderator. Don't single a specific member out, unless they refuse to answer your PM or haven't sufficiently explained themself when you politely inquired.

3.) If you disagree with the moderator, PM an administrator.

4.) If you want MW member feedback start a poll or a thread. If you want moderator feedback and/or member feedback, use this forum.

5.) Don't use this forum or any other to single someone out based upon an assumption, under the pretense that you just want to clarify policy. Otherwise, a generic PM or post would have sufficed.

(Edited: Because it was too long, I felt the need to, and did so prior to any replies. )

Edited September 11, 2004 by ChristopherB

[Hurin]

decided to PM instead.

Edited September 10, 2004 by Hurin

[ChristopherB]

Thank you to the members that PM'ed me, I will respond shortly.

Bearing in mind that the majority of us are grown men and women on this site, and with the knowledge that the few active moderators we have are pretty busy, I think that is expected and appreciated when we can handle situations like this without bothering them.

I have an open PM policy, so if anyone wants to gripe/bitch/whine or talk, feel free to contact me at anytime, and I'll do my best to respond promptly. Hopefully we can alleviate the creation of threads like this. That includes you, WDC.

What would your boss think if you went running into his office everytime you had a simple question, or dispute with one of a thousand different employees?

Maybe someone can lock this asinine thread now?

Edited September 11, 2004 by ChristopherB

[TheLoneWolf]

What would your boss think if you went running into his office everytime you had a simple question, or dispute with one of a thousand different employees?

For someone who writes verbose posts, it would be helpful to spend a comparable amount of time reading the posts of others.

WDC: Really, I was just curious, since it's well known that politics in posts are strictly frowned upon. Are sigs the loophole a political pundit needs?

We're dealing with a simple inquiry here. Yet, you're starting to internalize this thread on a level that borders unhealthy.

I, for one, don't care about anyone's political beliefs. But, I would like to see the rules of MacrossWorld clarified. WDC could have taken your suggestion and privatley PM'd Roy or Max, but then what good would it do the rest of the board? Sure, WDC would know their decision, but everyone else would be in the dark. Political sigs are a gray area of MW law and some of would like to know what the mods think about it.

[ChristopherB]

(TheLoneWolf, September 10, 2004, 08:45 PM) "For someone who writes verbose posts, it would be helpful to spend a comparable amount of time reading the posts of others."

Mr. LoneWolf,

I fail to see any indication that I've missed reading someone's post. Verbosity is my curse, and consequently my line of work. Perhaps you perceive things differently with regard to this thread and therefore assume incorrectly that because I interpreted someone's inquiry differently than you did, that I did not read his post.

In the absence of verification from you that I did not read someone's post, it is apparent that in your haste to post, you failed to read mine, but perhaps the length dissuaded you, which would be a poor excuse to utilize.

As evidence that you did not read what I wrote, let me restate your question, and then I'll be forced to answer it by resposting something you overlooked:

(TheLoneWolf, September 10, 2004, 08:45 PM)"Sure, WDC would know their decision, but everyone else would be in the dark."

And here is your answer, perhaps you'll read it this time:

4.) If you want moderator feedback and/or member feedback, use this forum.

5.) Don't use this forum or any other forum to single someone out based upon an assumption, under the pretense that you just want to clarify policy. Otherwise, a generic PM or post would have sufficed.

I'm not internalizing anything, are you a doctor perhaps, because you're telling me that this is unhealthy? In fact, I rather enjoy discussing things, as evidenced by my long posts. I'm cool, calm and collected just like the Sea Wolf, ala Jack London.

Sincerely,

Christopher

Edited September 11, 2004 by ChristopherB

[the white drew carey]

ChrisB- You are making a mountain out of a mole hill and are erroneously thinking that I have "an axe to grind" with either yourself or SBVT.

In hindsight, it probably would have been better for me to simply ask the question without mentioning your sig. But hindsight is alway's 20/20. One reason I specifically mentioned your sig is because I invariably knew someone would ask me what brought this on. I didn't think that your sig itself would become the hot-button issue, I only meant it to be in regards to the political nature of your sig.

As to my statements about SBVT that you have so handily quoted, I felt that I needed to explain directly to A1 that 1) Your sig didn't offend me, and 2) my thoughts on the group itself to show why it didn't offend me. If that was wrong, then so be it. I'm not going back and editing that post.

Finally, I feel I've taken quite a beating from you (and little ' 's don't change the intent of your posts), and I feel it's about time you sat back into your corner and have a time out. You're responses in this thread have run the gamut from:

-Intelligent. Your thoughts on the matter and such, to...

-Whining. Constant complaining that I should have PM'ed you first. It's an online discussion forum/community. I don't hide my dirty laundry, and I'm fine with the fact that I posted it for all to see. You bitch and moan so much about how people with grudges against you [even though I've repeatedly stated this ISN'T about you] should "PM you first" and yet I haven't seen one PM from you simply asking why I brought this matter up in this fashion, to...

-Outright damn childish. This is a forum for fans of Macross. Do you really think I'm going to take it to heart that you are calling me a pussy, or "calling me out"? It's very hard for people to take your arguments seriously when you have to interject such juvenile responses, ass-clown (see, it doesn't work).

For the last time- This thread was not SPECIFICALLY about ChrisB's link in his sig. His sig was simply the catalyst for my question about the matter of politics in sigs. I have no problem with ChrisB, the man, and personally have enjoyed his company here on MW. Sadly, I think this event has spiralled out of control in such a way that tensions will take a long time, if ever to ease.

Oh well... On, Moosylvania.

edit- spelling again. I'm tired.

Edited September 11, 2004 by the white drew carey

[JsARCLIGHT]

I was trying to stay away from this thread as Ewilen stated the obvious: There is no reason to keep it going until we get input from the admins or mods. But to me this thread has become a prime example of why politics are best left off the board. Two sides, engaged by accident almost, now seem to not let the other one walk away. The need to "get the last word" or "clear up the last issue" keeps dominating rather than cool heads. If anything this has proven Blaine's point to be correct about politics, even the mere mention or implied meaning mistaken by others spirals out of control.

I think we should all step back again and let this die down. Clear out the thread until the mods or admins let us know the answer to the topic of this debate and the root of this comotion: political items in sigs. Until then I quote a bad line from a hall and oates song that is somewhat relavent here:

Manic moves and drowsy dreams

Or living in the middle between the two extremes

Smoking guns hot to the touch

Would cool down if we didn't use them so much

We're soul alone

And soul really matters to me

Too much

You're out of touch

I'm out of time

[bsu legato]

LOUD NOISES!

[ChristopherB]

My apologies to TWDC for insulting his intentions, and for any rude/smartass comments I made. I tend to be very competitive and can get lost in the passion of the moment, rather than taking a step back, or a break from the situation. The "calling you out" thing was a joke, reminiscent of Haterist's post to Hurin.

I've enjoyed your company as well, and will continue to I am sure. I have nothing against you now, nor do I plan to, and I respect your opinion.

It is a valid to question as whether groups such as SBVT who have political goals/bias are allowed to have their website mentioned in signatures. The same holds true for religious references as well.

Just to clarify what you said, you do not have to have a grudge to PM me.

Thanks for the lyrics to the song JsARCLIGHT, Hall and Oates rocks. I just bought their greatest hits.

[Agent ONE]

...

Thanks for the lyrics to the song JsARCLIGHT, Hall and Oates rocks. I just bought their greatest hits.

I developed software on that album. If you didn't notice it installing that means I did a good job.

[ChristopherB]

Agent ONE,

Now that you mention it, you're right, I didn't notice it installing, which confirms you did a good job!

Christopher

[dna]

...

Thanks for the lyrics to the song JsARCLIGHT, Hall and Oates rocks.  I just bought their greatest hits.

I developed software on that album. If you didn't notice it installing that means I did a good job.

Now I have to go off-topic and ask what you put on there.

[valkyrietestpilot]

i see no reason to make this "overly sensitive land" either.agent one's got it right,don't be a girlie-man.stop being offended by every little thing that comes across your field of vision.toughen up!!!!! build up a callous man,get leathery,do what you have to do,but stop being so offended by someone else.i'm not bothered by anyone's sig or statements made in some random thread here.i'm tough,i eat nails for breakfast,so bring on your politcally slanted sig!!!!!

[Agent ONE]

...

Thanks for the lyrics to the song JsARCLIGHT, Hall and Oates rocks.  I just bought their greatest hits.

I developed software on that album. If you didn't notice it installing that means I did a good job.

Now I have to go off-topic and ask what you put on there.

Software to track what you do and where you go. THE MAN wants to know.

[JsARCLIGHT]

Private eyes are really watching you. Wow. Daryl Hall was right!

[Blaine23]

My apologies to TWDC for insulting his intentions, and for any rude/smartass comments I made. I tend to be very competitive and can get lost in the passion of the moment, rather than taking a step back, or a break from the situation. The "calling you out" thing was a joke, reminiscent of Haterist's post to Hurin.

I've enjoyed your company as well, and will continue to I am sure. I have nothing against you now, nor do I plan to, and I respect your opinion.

It is a valid to question as whether groups such as SBVT who have political goals/bias are allowed to have their website mentioned in signatures. The same holds true for religious references as well.

Just to clarify what you said, you do not have to have a grudge to PM me.

Thanks for the lyrics to the song JsARCLIGHT, Hall and Oates rocks. I just bought their greatest hits.

Good to hear it, Chris. I'll take that as my apology too.

Now, rock out to the magic that only Darryl Hall and John Oates can bring you and let's forget the whole matter.

Or... you could always... PM me.

[GreatMoose]

So, is everybody cool now? Hope so. Yoshinols for everyone on me!

[dna]

...

Thanks for the lyrics to the song JsARCLIGHT, Hall and Oates rocks.  I just bought their greatest hits.

I developed software on that album. If you didn't notice it installing that means I did a good job.

Now I have to go off-topic and ask what you put on there.

Software to track what you do and where you go. THE MAN wants to know.

So... you make the malware I spend so much time removing? Are you joking? Or do I really need to get mad at you now?

[Agent ONE]

...

Thanks for the lyrics to the song JsARCLIGHT, Hall and Oates rocks.  I just bought their greatest hits.

I developed software on that album. If you didn't notice it installing that means I did a good job.

Now I have to go off-topic and ask what you put on there.

Software to track what you do and where you go. THE MAN wants to know.

So... you make the malware I spend so much time removing? Are you joking? Or do I really need to get mad at you now?

Yep... I'm in the sypware biz... Go ahead and get mad.

[Hurin]

Well, that's confirmation. He truly is evil.

H

[ChristopherB]

Good to hear it, Chris.  I'll take that as my apology too. 

Allright, it's group hug time while we jam out to Hall and Oates, and curse Agent ONE for being in the "sypware" business, whatever in the hell that is. Must have something to do with the sippie cups toddlers use.

Damn Blaine23 you get an apology and I didn't even get a chance to call you by a cussword with an asterik in the middle. Seriously though, best wishes.

Private eyes are really watching you.

Just as long as their not "eyeing my private."

[dna]

...

Thanks for the lyrics to the song JsARCLIGHT, Hall and Oates rocks.  I just bought their greatest hits.

I developed software on that album. If you didn't notice it installing that means I did a good job.

Now I have to go off-topic and ask what you put on there.

Software to track what you do and where you go. THE MAN wants to know.

So... you make the malware I spend so much time removing? Are you joking? Or do I really need to get mad at you now?

Yep... I'm in the sypware biz... Go ahead and get mad.

You will never learn the secret. Crom will laugh at you.

[Agent ONE]

...

Thanks for the lyrics to the song JsARCLIGHT, Hall and Oates rocks.  I just bought their greatest hits.

I developed software on that album. If you didn't notice it installing that means I did a good job.

Now I have to go off-topic and ask what you put on there.

Software to track what you do and where you go. THE MAN wants to know.

So... you make the malware I spend so much time removing? Are you joking? Or do I really need to get mad at you now?

Yep... I'm in the sypware biz... Go ahead and get mad.

You will never learn the secret. Crom will laugh at you.