lutesla Posted September 3, 2004 Posted September 3, 2004 Hello Fellow Macross lovers. I am new here, but I am far from a noob to the world of Macross. At the age of six I remember watching Robotech on national TV in the 80's and have owned a bad VHS recorded copy of the entire series long before it was ever available domesticly in the States. Though my exposure to Robotech may make some of you Macross purists Cringe, the idea to combine Macross, Southern Cross and Mospeda into a single series was a production bout of genius (I think). Still, I have grown to love what was intended by Macross' creators more than what Americans got in the 80's. Macross plus and Macross II were both excellent, and I count myself lucky to have seen Macross II in the theater. This is one of the great Anime and Mecha series of all time. My affection for it is only overshadowed by my love of Gundam and that takes a back seat to Jesus... but that's besides the point. --- here's my request for help... I am a member of another site, perhaps some of you know about www.mahq.net . It is one of themost comprehensive sites about japanese mecha, and especialy concerning Gundam. It even does a rather nice job on Macross. My situation is this, I have started a topic on the forums there concerning Gundam and Macross. The problem is that despite the wonderful and accurate comentary there about Mobile suit Gundam, there are too few fans pf MAcross on Mahq, and there are few who have responded to my Macross vs. Gundam thread with any fair knowledge of Macross... even though copious informatrion is available on that selfsame site. Would any of the Macross experts here, who also have an apreciation and strong grasp of Mobile Suit Gundam, join me in that forum and put in your two cents concerning such a what if senario? Any informed opinion would be greatly apreciated. Note: I don't want to start a flame war at Mahq, and if you can't behave then please just tell me what you think in this thread. The last thing I want is to get banned at Mahq, or start an inter-anime internet war. We're friends here, and Gundam lovers and Macross lovers can get along. Thankyou for any help, comments or support. here's a link to the Thread and the details of the senario: http://p080.ezboard.com/ffantasyandanimati...picID=800.topic I started another thread there that is more a "what if the macross first crashed in the Mobile Suit Gundam during the One Year War instead of the Macross Earth in the 20th century during WW3"... so if that one wets your appetite as well, here's a link for it: http://p080.ezboard.com/ffantasyandanimati...picID=802.topic Thanks: Steve, aka: "lutesla" -
Nightbat Posted September 3, 2004 Posted September 3, 2004 Heheheh Welcome Lutesla I think you're not gonna have much supporters for your cause here, many of us despise "Versus"-Threads (Death-star VS Borg Cube anyone?)\ and these type of threads get locked here pretty fast: like pants in a virgin's room the moment daddy comes home simple reason: they are two very different worlds it's not Onegai Teacher/Twins or Startrek TNG/DS9 where both are connected "What if" 's are pretty fun as long as they are within their respective universe (which Gundam has a problem with on it's own) ofcourse a "What if Enemy X never showed up" is pretty useless
lutesla Posted September 3, 2004 Author Posted September 3, 2004 good point. --- I've always been one to try for as solid and realistic a grasp of any univers's tech as much as possible, and have toyed with tech conversions of everything from Macross and starwars, to Gundam and Babylon 5. It can be a lot of fun. The trouble I ran into over at Mahq was that so many of the participants in my little vs. experiements have so little understanding of Macross to make a fair comparison. Gundam to them is all powerful. In truth, I think that in the senario I mapped out Gundam would indeed win, but not til after some very interesting combonations of tech on both sides and some real havok wreaked by the SDF-1/Macross. -- well, if no one here responds, so be it, better to avoid a real mud fight than tempt fate. I guess something I'd like to ask of the local blokes here is this: Q- what do you think would be the outcome of a tech swap between Macross and Mobile suit Gundam? -
azrael Posted September 3, 2004 Posted September 3, 2004 what do you think would be the outcome of a tech swap between Macross and Mobile suit Gundam? We don't do "Versus" threads here. And I suggest you don't start. Gundam has it's own set of technology, rules, and anime physics. Macross has it's own as well. If you mix the 2, it ruins the "rules" of the series. Gundam doesn't use Song energy in combat situations. Macross doesn't use mentally-controlled funnels/bits (drones have appeared in MII, however, they are not funnels or bits) to fight. If you start mixing the 2, you have to rework the "rules" to fit. We don't do that here.
ewilen Posted September 3, 2004 Posted September 3, 2004 Lutesia, you might try doing a couple searches here--I know there's been a vs. discussion or two that managed not to get out of hand or get locked. Welcome to MW.
lutesla Posted September 3, 2004 Author Posted September 3, 2004 (edited) good point....well, if no one here responds, so be it, better to avoid a real mud fight than tempt fate. I guess something I'd like to ask of the local blokes here is this: Q- what do you think would be the outcome of a tech swap between Macross and Mobile suit Gundam? - in my last post, I changed what I wanted to ask of the locals here. I don't want to break the rules so I asked a different question. It's in my quote. --- and for the record, the tech involved is One Year War level Gundam... so aside fromt he MA Elmeth there are no bits or funnels, and there is no Spiritu music-stuff. Just old school MAcross and old school Gundam. It's not VS. it a tech swap... a sort of "how would either side change if they met" not "who would win". I don't care who would win, I'ma tech geek and I'm more interested in what things look like when different rules collide. I know many of you don't like mixing rules cause it often makes for confusion... it's easier if you test all tech trees and technology by what we know scientifically today. You can trace a sci-fi tech back to what inspired it in our modern ideas and sciences. Once you make that connection with real-reality, then the rules all become compatable... but it requires some reining in, and some solidifying of fuzzy concepts. I'm not looking for a fight or a vs... I just just want to discuss this stuff. - Edited September 3, 2004 by lutesla
the white drew carey Posted September 3, 2004 Posted September 3, 2004 good point....well, if no one here responds, so be it, better to avoid a real mud fight than tempt fate. I guess something I'd like to ask of the local blokes here is this: Q- what do you think would be the outcome of a tech swap between Macross and Mobile suit Gundam? - in my last post, I changed what I wanted to ask of the locals here. I don't want to break the rules so I asked a different question. It's in my quote. --- and for the record, the tech involved is One Year War level Gundam... so aside fromt he MA Elmeth there are no bits or funnels, and there is no Spiritu music-stuff. Just old school MAcross and old school Gundam. It's not VS. it a tech swap... a sort of "how would either side change if they met" not "who would win". I don't care who would win, I'ma tech geek and I'm more interested in what things look like when different rules collide. I know many of you don't like mixing rules cause it often makes for confusion... it's easier if you test all tech trees and technology by what we know scientifically today. You can trace a sci-fi tech back to what inspired it in our modern ideas and sciences. Once you make that connection with real-reality, then the rules all become compatable... but it requires some reining in, and some solidifying of fuzzy concepts. I'm not looking for a fight or a vs... I just just want to discuss this stuff. - Simply put- You're asking how the ASS-1 would have affected the Gundam U.C. Universe if it had crashed in, say UC0078? You see, most of us don't like to think too hard. It hurts. I get where your coming from. But as a personal rule I never, ever mix, and/or debate, two different concepts, even within the same genre. It's like asking how Gandalf would've acted if he went through that damned wardrobe. It's anything goes, so discussion would be so varied and nothing would ever really come of it. p.s. Welcome to MacrossWorld!!!
lutesla Posted September 3, 2004 Author Posted September 3, 2004 good analogy... the idea of Gandalf in Narnia made me Chuckle a bit. Oh well, it was worth a shot, I guess I'll just bum around and become an occational regular here by osmosis . Those of you who have been hospitable, I thankyou. -
eugimon Posted September 3, 2004 Posted September 3, 2004 hey, welcome to the site... as a participant in many multiuniverse flame wars such as: batman versus captain america or my favorite: batman versus wolverine star trek versus star wars I have to say, it's fun while it lasts, but at the end of it all you end up thinking to yourself as comic book guy does in the simpsons at his approaching death: oh, I've wasted my life. fan boys will always think that their particular bit o' fancy is the "bestest" around, and will refuse to listen to reason. so leave those worthless gundam-philes to themselves so they can drool over this weeks version of an MS suit and participate here.
Mr March Posted September 3, 2004 Posted September 3, 2004 You are correct that good, intelligent "versus" threads are few and far between. While I think they are fun to engage in from time to time as long as the flames are managed, here at MacrossWorld they have a tendancy to be locked before they go anywhere. Like political and religious debates, they are pretty much no-shows. That being said, I thought your intro wasn't bad and your invitation was well thought out to invite intelligent discussion. You're on the right road to managing a calm, thoughtful discussion. If I have time, I'll certainly interject an opinion. THanks for the offer.
baronv Posted September 3, 2004 Posted September 3, 2004 Hi, well if I knew more about Gundam then I'd comment on your thread, but seeing as the only ones I've ever watched were the 008th MS Team and the Endless Waltz film I cannot really comment, but those threads are fun, and you know why? Because these are all fiction! It's always a hoot to see people comment this universe's science cannot practically merge with this other universe's science becuase the blah blah blah can only achieve blah blah blah technology and blah blah blah. My opinion has always been that these are CARTOONS people! Anything is possible, that's why they are cartoons. My point beign here is that it's all pretty geeky hanging around talking about Toys, cartoons, anime, etc. and all. It's not serious at all, it's a cartoon! Have fun with it. Now who's up for a Macross vs. Big O vs. Ranma 1/2 war, who'd win?
lutesla Posted September 3, 2004 Author Posted September 3, 2004 I dunno... I think that whatever comes outa that kids head in FLCL would kick everyone's @$$. Or Galactus... or Unicron... no, Jesus... He'd cut everthing in half with that sword thingy coming out of his mouth. Dude... totally. You guys are awsome. -
Stamen0083 Posted September 3, 2004 Posted September 3, 2004 so leave those worthless gundam-philes to themselves... You really don't want to know what I think of you at the moment. If the ASS-1 crashed in UC 0078, the Earth Federation would be devastated, and Zeon would most likely end up winning the war. Then they realize that there might be giant aliens, and I come in and crush them all in a black hole for even thinking about such a moronic concept. Aliens and Gundam don't mix. EVER. So the ASS-1 could never crash in the Gundam world. Quod Erat Demonstrandum.
mikeszekely Posted September 3, 2004 Posted September 3, 2004 I hate to get involved... but here's some points you might what to make to that uppity Mikael Yrin fellow... First, I'm pretty sure that a Valkyrie CAN fire missiles in Battroid mode. The VF-19's in Macross 7 do it on a regular basis. They only don't let you do it in the videogames for purposes of balance between the modes. Second, while I'm inclined to agree that beam weapons like the Gundam or Gelgoog's beam rifle are likely to be more effective than a VF-1's gunpod, the gunpod shouldn't be dismissed out of hand, either, as it's likely to be on par with the the rifles used by the Zaku or the RX-78[G]. And in any case, a VF-1 with a strike pack does indeed have a rather large beam cannon. Third, just because a Saberfish uses pansy missles is no reason to believe that a VF-1 does. In fact, VF-1s can be fitted with ridiculously powerful reaction missles. Fourth, a VF-1 is in no way fragile, nor merely a "suped-up F-14." VFs are not made of steel, but a super-strong material called hypercarbons. Macross Zero also implies that all VFs are fitted with SWAG energy converting armor... that is, armor that uses extra power from the engines to increase the strenght of the armor. For all we know, hypercarbons are just as strong as luna titanium... and another poster in the thread already pointed out that a single VF-1 engine (and they have two) crank out a lot more power than any mobile suits'. Fifth, there is no evidence to support the notion that a standard MS, or even the RX-78, is more maneuverable than a VF-1 in any mode, figher, gerwalk, or battroid. Sixth, just because Minovskies block the standard radar that the EFSF and Zeons were using does not guarantee that it would affect the overtechnology developed CYCLOPS radar systems used by the UN Spacy forces. Valkyries may indeed be able to pick off mobile suits from distances. But I think the most telling thing is the fact that the SDF-1 has proven to be very damage resistant, not to mention armed with a pin-point barrier and a ridiculously large heavy particle gun, while both the Zeon and EFSF ships are constantly bursting like balloons. Several Salamis have even been shown to explode from a little fire from a Zaku machine gun, while the SDF-1 crashed into the earth and remained mostly intact, survived a number or skirmishes with the Zentraedi for several months in space, plowed through a Zentraedi mother ship, and still surived a kamikaze attack from Kamujin. Whatever cases might be made for mobile suits over variable fighters, the SDF-1 vs. any capital ship from Gundam is a no-contest.
kanedaestes Posted September 4, 2004 Posted September 4, 2004 (edited) because it was brought up, i always believe the a vf could out manuever a MS, so there would be no contest, yeah a MS could have a ton of impressive weaponary, but it is useless if you can hit a target. besides the training for a gundam pilot is different than a vf pilot, i mean we are dealing with actual pilots, who are professionals in the art of dog fighting. gundams don't really dog fight, they shot huge beams, or just do sword battles with beam sabers, but that is my opinion oh and welcome to the site, they treated you far better than they did me when i started like a week ago. just look at the robotech movie thread here in movie and tv series Edited September 4, 2004 by kanedaestes
Stamen0083 Posted September 4, 2004 Posted September 4, 2004 besides the training for a gundam pilot is different than a vf pilot, i mean we are dealing with actual pilots, who are professionals in the art of dog fighting. MS pilots are real pilots too. It's not like the Federation is going to hand over a very expensive piece of destructive hardware to any yutz out there. Newtype children excepted. Besides, MS pilots during 0079 were basically making the transition from conventional fighters to MS. However, I've always thought that piloting an MS is more like piloting a tank, anyways, so it's really not fair to compare a fighter to a tank. Honestly, comparing Gundam and Macross is pretty stupid, especially when it comes to versus battles, but if you want to go hypothetical, where the ASS-1 also crashed into the Gundam universe, there's no reason why Gundam couldn't benefit from OverTechnology like the Valkyries did. While Lunar Titanium is already tough, OverTechnology boosted Lunar Titanium could probably crush hypercarbons into hyperdiamonds without even trying. The point is, we can't know. gundams don't really dog fight, they shot huge beams, or just do sword battles with beam sabers, but that is my opinion Who else's opinion would it be? Close range fighting with a beam saber or with guns is still dogfighting. oh and welcome to the site, they treated you far better than they did me when i started like a week ago. just look at the robotech movie thread here in movie and tv series Heh. Should have known better than to utter Robotech at a Macross board, where the former is regarded as an evil bastard child and should have burned in hell along with Macek, and both should never have allowed to leave the womb.
eugimon Posted September 4, 2004 Posted September 4, 2004 so leave those worthless gundam-philes to themselves... You really don't want to know what I think of you at the moment. If the ASS-1 crashed in UC 0078, the Earth Federation would be devastated, and Zeon would most likely end up winning the war. Then they realize that there might be giant aliens, and I come in and crush them all in a black hole for even thinking about such a moronic concept. Aliens and Gundam don't mix. EVER. So the ASS-1 could never crash in the Gundam world. Quod Erat Demonstrandum. thanks for illustrating my point.
Nightbat Posted September 4, 2004 Posted September 4, 2004 oh and welcome to the site, they treated you far better than they did me when i started like a week ago. just look at the robotech movie thread here in movie and tv series Heh. Should have known better than to utter Robotech at a Macross board, where the former is regarded as an evil bastard child and should have burned in hell along with Macek, and both should never have allowed to leave the womb. You're being modest, let it all out, don't hold back and btw, let me take back that comment about us MW'ers not willing to participate in a "VS" Contest
eugimon Posted September 4, 2004 Posted September 4, 2004 oh and welcome to the site, they treated you far better than they did me when i started like a week ago. just look at the robotech movie thread here in movie and tv series Heh. Should have known better than to utter Robotech at a Macross board, where the former is regarded as an evil bastard child and should have burned in hell along with Macek, and both should never have allowed to leave the womb. You're being modest, let it all out, don't hold back and btw, let me take back that comment about us MW'ers not willing to participate in a "VS" Contest haha, well, some MW know a joke when they read one and others like to edit quotes to make it seem like a malicious slam. but then, that's a gundam fan for you.
Stamen0083 Posted September 4, 2004 Posted September 4, 2004 (edited) haha, well, some MW know a joke when they read one and others like to edit quotes to make it seem like a malicious slam. but then, that's a gundam fan for you. I've got to learn better use of the emoticons. Most Gundam fans have mastered the art. Edited September 4, 2004 by Stamen0083
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