YF-19FP SACRIFICE. What could you do without?

[Pat S]

Ah...

[Neova]

I voted removable landing gears and doors.

And Rusty's picture on the first page the of the Custom Super Nova from Model Graphix is THE reference YF-19 for me. Now add the FPs and crank it out already!

BTW: Who modeled that? Its not the same guy that was hired to revise the YF-19 for Yamato correct?

Model Graphix June 2002 from MW

[DrClay]

that thing (perfect-transformation) RULES!! you guys sound like those who whine about the 1:48's chest being too wide.... geez!

Um, no... we sound like people that want our toys to look perfect. I didn't complain about the 1/48 at all except for the big nosecone. . . I like them pointy like the 1/60s. Plus even if you put aside the aesthetics of the kit you have to take into consideration the amount of steps in the transformation, along with all the little teensy weensy pieces just waiting to snap as with a lot of other "perfect" transformations. You think its so great, track one down and buy it... but I'd rather have something that can battle my other valks w/o breaking a nail. The one on the first page looks better, but I'll bet it suffers from the same "handle with care" syndrome.

Plus, this whole thread is dedicated to whining about how the YF-19FP isn't out yet. As I've said before; I wouldn't hold my breath... it will come when it comes.

So far I think the landing gear is at the top of my list of things to sacrifice.

But I'd sacrifice the YF-19FP all together for a VF-17D(FP) or VF-19S(with REAL 19FPs)... the YF-19 and its wussy fps are passe...

sorry! man! can't a guy like somethin' without a big long post puttin' him down? I shoulda' known better than to start posting again. :(

[Mule]

mule,

as shown by yamato's 1/48 VF-1, perfect transformation CAN make it to physical reality...at this point I am sure very little cared about the transformation on that thing not matching the anime, hell what DOES these days(masterpiece prime anyone?) but I think I can say most of us would want perfect variable regardless of whether the transformation is 100% accurate or not.  Hell come to think of it almost all of yammato's transformations are off one way or another.  You dont hjere everyone complaining however. 

The 1/48 VF-1 did take some liberties, but stayed pretty close to the spirit of the transformation. Same with the YF-21, the VF-11, and the 1/60 VF-1 and the Bandai toys. Actually, the only real liberty the 1/48 VF-1 took was to put the swing bar inside instead of outside like Bandai and the MPCs did.

That being said, this is not a VF-1. As others have said, the YF-19 (or any 19 for that matter) is much more complex. Even if Yamato could pull off a perfect transform of any sort, there would be tons of small parts. This causes 2 problems: 1) at any scale, the finished product would cost a fortune due to manufacturing costs, and 2) these tiny parts would break easily unless they are made out of die-cast metal, thus adding even more to the price.

As far as looks, I agree with others that have said that the perfect transform's waist is just too skinny and the chest is too small. It makes the battroid look too fragile. The Bandai VF-19 suffers from this problem too IMO. As I said before, I'd much rather have a product that looked great in all three modes than one that has no detatchable parts.

Edited September 7, 2004 by Mule

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

then again the guy from IHP is working on it so who knows? We all know everyone wants perfect transformation they just fear crap happening. Im pretty sure one of these days someone will come up with a perfect transformation that kicks all kinds of ass. And for that matter @1/72 scale im not surprised that conversion kit has skinny waist.

1/48=BIGGER SIZE=MORE room to work with.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

I'd definately buy a 1/48. Then after they release that, they can do the 1/72. (well in my dream world)

Logic being start from easier to harder challenges...If everyone buys the 1/48 and no one buys the 1/72 it will prove sacrifices were unecessary because fans will be too impressed by the brilliance of 1/48 to care for the 1/72.

[Angel's Fury]

I voted removable landing gears and doors.

And Rusty's picture on the first page the of the Custom Super Nova from Model Graphix is THE reference YF-19 for me. Now add the FPs and crank it out already!

BTW: Who modeled that? Its not the same guy that was hired to revise the YF-19 for Yamato correct?

Model Graphix June 2002 from MW

Yes. It is the same guy that Yamato hired to do the VB-6 and the YF-19FP.

[Ignacio Ocamica]

I voted removable landing gears and doors.

And Rusty's picture on the first page the of the Custom Super Nova from Model Graphix is THE reference YF-19 for me. Now add the FPs and crank it out already!

BTW: Who modeled that? Its not the same guy that was hired to revise the YF-19 for Yamato correct?

Model Graphix June 2002 from MW

Yes. It is the same guy that Yamato hired to do the VB-6 and the YF-19FP.

Yes, it's Mr. Sakuragawa.

[Uxi]

I just want a mild refresh ala the other 1/72 FP's.

THEN redesign and resculpt for 1/60.

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

the YF-19Fp IS a resculpt/mod...it's basically made from scratch...

[Graham]

I just want a mild refresh ala the other 1/72 FP's. 

THEN redesign and resculpt for 1/60.

I'm personally not interested in Yamato re-releasing the original YF-19 but with the additon of FPs. While it looks OK in Battroid mode it really, really sucks bad (IMO) in fighter mode.

But on the other hand, if Kawaori has rejected IHP's first resculpt attempt and asked for it to be completely redone, I'm wondering will Yamto think that it is economically sensible to continue throwing money at this project. Maybe they will just give up and write it off as a bad loss.

Graham

[eugimon]

yup, agree.

if the FP version of the yf-19 is just the original sculpt with FPs I'll definitely take a pass.

the original design had some flaws I thought... loose battroid mode, legs that were overly heavy and prone to chipping due to wings... not to mention the horrible fighter mode.

[Ignacio Ocamica]

Despite of the info that Noel gathered for us, I have a huge doubt that Yamato is 100 per cent sure to release the FP YF-19.

No news is bad news

With the VB-6 König Monster, which is a less popular macross design than the YF-19, hell it's a PS One game design, we've seen the whole production process. Two yaers have passed and nothing about the YF-19.

I'll believe it when I see it

Lucky me that I dreamed about owing the König Monster and now I'll have it

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

the koenig monster by size is a BIGGER toy than the YF-19FP. So assuming that I am SURE it was a LOT easier to design and work with since it's sheer size gives them room to do many things with it.

[eugimon]

hmmm, good point.

[Ignacio Ocamica]

the koenig monster by size is a BIGGER toy than the YF-19FP.  So assuming that I am SURE it was a LOT easier to design and work with since it's sheer size gives them room to do many things with it.

You are right Shin, but Yamato has experience in, and already put a 1/72 YF-19 "perfect transformation" out in the streets.

They need to make aesthetic changes to a toy which they already have worked with and know the transformation process very well.

It can't be so difficult. I rather think they don't expect too many sales to justify redesigning this toy.

Edit:

Forgot to add that if they use diecast and POM in some key areas the toy shouldn´t be fragile at all. The current 1/72 is almost undestructible. So they can give us a better toy at the same scale. If they choose a bigger scale then I'll be extremely happy and sure it will be easier for Yamato to work with.

There is no official info, Yamato is too quiet about this!!!

Edited September 9, 2004 by Ignacio Ocamica

[Blaine23]

I just want a mild refresh ala the other 1/72 FP's. 

THEN redesign and resculpt for 1/60.

I'm personally not interested in Yamato re-releasing the original YF-19 but with the additon of FPs. While it looks OK in Battroid mode it really, really sucks bad (IMO) in fighter mode.

Eh... at this point, I'd be happy with a re-release of the YF-19 with the original colors and FP addons. The VF-19A was much improved over their earlier releases and hopefully they've learned even more since then.

As bad as the fighter mode is, it still looks better than the crappy 1/100 VF-0 they're going to proudly release.

I'd just as soon have them reissue the 1/72 and get to work on a bigger, better sculpt of the YF-19 FP alltogether.

[Ido]

As bad as the fighter mode is, it still looks better than the crappy 1/100 VF-0 they're going to proudly release.

What? have you a special editon Yf-19 that looks good in fighter mode? Seriously i don't understand what have the vf-0 that looks worse that the yf-19 in fighter mode.

I find that isn't right say that a toy is crappy before it has been even released however.

[rocco_77]

I really just don't see the big deal.... Why has Yamato dragged its feet on this toy, but is able to get all these other toys to market? I realize that the -19 is a tough one to make, but Yamato has done some really incredible work, and I just can't understand why the -19 is THAT much more difficult to execute...

Plus, I've been watchin the poll here, and you guys are really picky! Perfect transformation would be ideal, but detachable landing gear would be a small price to pay to actually get the toy rather than it be scrapped... Are there any other MAJOR issues preventing perfect transformation?

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

well it was planned for 1/72 scale....I'm pretty sure small pieces and not much room to work with is the main problem. YOu guys have to remember IHP's conversion kit was NOT perfect variable, and I do assume that sakuragawa, under guidance from yamato, did intend to mmake the toy perfect variable....making a perfect variable toy based on a non perfect variable converison kit with small parts is NOT easy.

Sizing up would solve a lot of problems but perhaps yamato wants this toy to fit in with previous macross plus releases.

[Graham]

Sakuragawa-san of IHP may have made a kick-ass variable (w/parts swapping) conversion of the Hasegawa YF-19, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it would be a suitable design for a mass production toy.

When you take what is essentially a hand-made custom model kit and try to translate it into a toy design a lot of things have to be changed. Joints have to be strengthened, the ABS plastic used on toys is much thicker then the styrene/resin of the model kit, which means less internal space. Lots of screws have to be added. Sometimes, the intricate handcrafted resin parts of the custom kit cannot be copied for a toy due to the tooling limitations of Chinese factories.

Graham

[GobotFool]

They should just make it 1/48 scale. That should help solve alot of mechanical problems for sure

[Uxi]

Eh... at this point, I'd be happy with a re-release of the YF-19 with the original colors and FP addons. The VF-19A was much improved over their earlier releases and hopefully they've learned even more since then.

As bad as the fighter mode is, it still looks better than the crappy 1/100 VF-0 they're going to proudly release.

I'd just as soon have them reissue the 1/72 and get to work on a bigger, better sculpt of the YF-19 FP alltogether.

Exactly. While my VF-19A isn't my favorite, it's about as good as any other Yamato.

Same mold with some tweaks (additional joint movement maybe and ratcheted improvements for those floppy legs, etc) would undoubtedly be more economical, too.

Can't really get much more detail at that size. So just go 1/60. About the size of a 1/48 and in scale with my VF-1 and Q-rau collection.

[Neova]

Sakuragawa-san of IHP may have made a kick-ass variable (w/parts swapping) conversion of the Hasegawa YF-19, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it would be a suitable design for a mass production toy.

When you take what is essentially a hand-made custom model kit and try to translate it into a toy design a lot of things have to be changed. Joints have to be strengthened, the ABS plastic used on toys is much thicker then the styrene/resin of the model kit, which means less internal space. Lots of screws have to be added. Sometimes, the intricate handcrafted resin parts of the custom kit cannot be copied for a toy due to the tooling limitations of Chinese factories.

Graham

All the reason to make it bigger. Scaling increases your resource budget (and price). And there really are no limitations at the Chinese factories since the tooling will be owned by Yamato.

The bottom line is how much Yamato wants to spend to "tool up" for a perfect or parts swapping version.

Again, I'll take a perfect sculpt in all modes with some minor parts swapping as a minimum.

[Bariaburu Faita]

Ok, heres something that I wouldnt mind sacrificing that wasnt an option on the poll.

I would sacrifice SIZE

Yes, I would like to see a 1/100 scale non perfect transformation YF-19. Simmilar to the VF-0. I feel this line is critical for the future of Macross toys. Yamato started out with the 1/72 line aimed primarily at the established fanbase. Then the toys started getting larger and more expensive. 1/60, then 1/48.

But the toy market in Japan is going in the opposite direction, towards cheaper and smaller. Trading figures in the 500-600yen range, Capsule toys 200-300yen. With the slow economy reducing the money people spend on luxuries and leisure these are the things that sell well.

So far the indications are that the recent 1/48s are not selling. Yamato needs a baseline entry level product to support the large items. An example is the Gundam MSIA line, huge selection of low price point product. And this allows them to produce the incredible SOC line.

So with a 1/100 scale line they could make a larger selection of enemy mecha and destroids with less risk and potentialy more profit from larger econmy of scale.

Plus, its easier to play with a 1/100 scale toy than a 1/60 or 1/48. I buy toys to play with, transform, and shower with affection;)

With 1/100 we also have many model kits to display them with, Macross as well as others.

Yes, I do want a perfect transformation 1/48 YF-19, but since they have to do a complete resulpt anyway, they might as well take a path that might result in broadening their customer base with younger kids. Get them into someting besides Gundam Seed Destiny.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

As long as its got: high quality,(ie won't break) high detail (accurate to real thing) and good poseability(no floppy limbs in any mode, more apreciable in long term) then I'm there. (still would love 1/48 detail though)

If they have to upsize the scale to please both the hardcore fan with wads of cash and those who have to save up then I'd say this will work out if they space releases apart. (so everyone can catch up. Still worried I will never be able to get complete collection 1/48 vf1s without paying inflated prices because the wallet can't afford it all at once and the threat of them disappearing.)

eg. those little banprestos look good (and playable) standing on top of a monitor but if they make these too small they might alienate those who want perfection and who've gotten used to 1/48 details. I think it would be safe for them to first satisfy that demand amoungst the anal fan, and then work towards the masses later.

If they take a risk but in small steps, (staggered release) while building up fans anticipation (generate the buzz that makes it a top priority on a person's toy shopping list as opposed to releasing all at once) they could survive I reckon. I had some cash ready for a toynami alpha but am holding back for other stuff (ie still want to buy koenig monster, vf11b, qrau etc) so it all depends on who they want to focus on. Make the toy perfect to please fans, and the "i'll buy the thing anyway because it's a yf19" people, and they won't have to sacrifice much. (why run the risk of pissing off either one group?)

If they could go in with the attitude of "I want to make the best version of an accurate and high detail yf19 toy for the fan and grab thier attention", then the $ will flow to them because people will limit what they buy on only the best stuff; especially if that thing is seen as a highly sought after item based on what the fans percieve and what the critics say about it.

It's like if you buy a cheap pair of shoes that fall apart easily, expect to buy more than 1 pair but be disapointed. (not really wanting it) But if you buy an expensive pair, then the percieved value to you personally will go up because you know they are dependable, (they last!) and something that you've always wanted from the beginning. (you just limit yourself to buying 1 because you are on a budget, but at least pleased with the thing you bought) Because if they could create demand based on word of mouth on the toy itself, (what fuels the demand?) people will seek it through reputation alone.

Besides little kids have small hands and love to throw stuff around. By the time they grow up, they'll have jobs and be able to afford the 1/48 once it is finally released. I heard that japan is an aging population anyway. The older crowd is the growing market.

Edited September 12, 2004 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[Sumdumgai]

It's nice to see more people in favor of a 1/48 scale YF-19. I remember there were some pretty intense debates on the subject of M+ valkyries in 1/48 scale.

I think shrinking the YF-19 to 1/100 scale would suck hard, since it would probably be a lot more fragile (unless they beef up the design so it's a chunky-monkey like the bandai 1/65 M7 19 valks). As it is I doubt there will even be a pilot figure for the VF-0. If they made one, you might accidentally inhale it and get Roy Fokker caught in your left nostril.

Plus the more you downsize the valkyrie, the more detail you lose.

I can live with changeable landing gear on a 1/72 (1/48 is where you don't interchange parts in my mind), but not swapping major amounts of parts. If they made it so you have to swap the chest-piece like with the Bandai M7 VF-19 "transforming" model kits, I think I'd burst a blood vessel.

It's all about the quality!

[Kiotcloudkicker]

But the toy market in Japan is going in the opposite direction, towards cheaper and smaller. Trading figures in the 500-600yen range, Capsule toys 200-300yen. With the slow economy reducing the money people spend on luxuries and leisure these are the things that sell well.

So far the indications are that the recent 1/48s are not selling. Yamato needs a baseline entry level product to support the large items. An example is the Gundam MSIA line, huge selection of low price point product. And this allows them to produce the incredible SOC line.

They wouldn't be having a customer base or consumer interest problem if they would just release the shows else where like the U.S. besides just Japan. Like Cartoon Network for example... that would really broaden and increase consumer interest. I suppose all this "no release" to the U.S. has to do with licensing issues?

BTW:

What does "FP" stand for in the context of "YF-19FP"?

How likely is it that a transformable 1/48 YF-19 toy will be released? They did an excellent job w/ the VF-1(s)... it would be a shame not to see more toys that size and w/ that kind of detail.

[kanedaestes]

"fp" means fast pack, and yes it is because of liscensing issues that nothing is being released, and the odds of a 1/48 yf-19, i really don't know, but i highly doubt it, because then they would have to redo the whole mac+ line, which would be great, but it doesn't seem like yammie is going towards that route right now

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

But the toy market in Japan is going in the opposite direction, towards cheaper and smaller. Trading figures in the 500-600yen range, Capsule toys 200-300yen. With the slow economy reducing the money people spend on luxuries and leisure these are the things that sell well.

So far the indications are that the recent 1/48s are not selling. Yamato needs a baseline entry level product to support the large items. An example is the Gundam MSIA line, huge selection of low price point product. And this allows them to produce the incredible SOC line.

They wouldn't be having a customer base or consumer interest problem if they would just release the shows else where like the U.S. besides just Japan. Like Cartoon Network for example... that would really broaden and increase consumer interest. I suppose all this "no release" to the U.S. has to do with licensing issues?

BTW:

What does "FP" stand for in the context of "YF-19FP"?

How likely is it that a transformable 1/48 YF-19 toy will be released? They did an excellent job w/ the VF-1(s)... it would be a shame not to see more toys that size and w/ that kind of detail.

goodness, shouldn't this be in the newbie forum?

BTW Imode, if you are reading this, any news or fan reactions regarding the YF-19Fp on the japanese BBS translations would be appreciated,.

[Renato]

What Japanese BBS? Yamato no longer runs one and the "Official Macross Homepage BBS" is full of people that complain that the Official Macross Homepage never gets any updates.

Besides, it's not like a forum, where you have topics separated neatly.

However, I did laugh at one post that read, "To see a Valkyrie with a mouth in M7 was a 'culture shock' to me..."

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

its niether one of those. Imode got translated other things from another BBS.

[Max Jenius]

1/48 YF-19 would be huge... we did the math once and about 1/60 would be the size of the 1/48 VF-1

[DARKWIND]

I'm with increasing the scale. . .

If a modeler can do it with a garage kit, so can a toy company. . .

Sure there maybe extra cost but it will be worth it in the end. . .

Think about it a valk that gets the nod from all sides. . .

[Angel's Fury]

I'm with increasing the scale. . .

If a modeler can do it with a garage kit, so can a toy company. . .

Sure there maybe extra cost but it will be worth it in the end. . .

Think about it a valk that gets the nod from all sides. . .

I hope Yamato thinks that way, and I'm with Max, a 1/48 YF-19 WOULD BE HUGE!!!