The NEW Star Wars on DVD thread

[bsu legato]

So at the end of Jedi they replace the old actor of Anakin's force ghost with teh young Hayden Christiansen. So why didn't they replace Alec Guiness with Ewan McGregor? Why did ObiWan's ghost stay the old Ben?

According to the ROTJ commentary, Anakin appears as he looked at the time of his death. Obviously Obi Wan and Yoda dies at a much older age, and their appearance is consistant with that.

Why not throw QuiGon and Samuel Jackson in there too. 

They never knew Luke, and more importantly they never learned to retain their identities after death. This will supposedly be dealt with in ROTS.

Makes no sense.

They're ghosts in a fantasy movie. Where are there rules for this stuff?

[zeo-mare]

as for why they did not replace Obiwan and just Anakin i think it says in some of the earlier post on this thread, how when anakin turned to vader he died so the ghost you see of him young is how he looked when he passed away and the darkside took over the body, obi wan died as a old man and that is how his spirit remained. as for Quigon and Mace probaly because Luke never knew them, it seems like the ghosts of those who effected his life were there, obiwan who helped him at the begining become a Jedi, Yoda who helped finish his training and Vader who he helped regain is body and come back to the light Side of the Force.

Edit : bsu legato beat me to it.

Edited September 19, 2004 by zeo-mare

[Myriad]

Please note how late it was when I typed that. Trust me, a mere typo is nothing compared to the bad grammer I've seen elsewhere. Also, give someone you don't know some credit for crying out loud. My theories don't superceed the author. I just don't have access to these set diaries. All my statements are based on what I've read regarding the films and such. In light of this, I'd say that not all Stormtroopers are clones. Otherwise, what's the point of the Imperial Academies? Why are the officiers not clones. If they recruit officers, why not Stormtroopers as well? It still doesn't explain why you seem so interested in rustling my feathers.

You said it in a round about way here. The Imperial Academies are for Officers.

Cannon = movies

Everything else = Grain of salt

[Zeta Otaku]

ok, don't know how I missed this thread...

anyway, I've had the DVDs for a week now (ah, nice to have friends in high places who don't give a poo about the place they work for... blockbuster...)

let me list all the changes for you right here -

not too much was changed over the SE edition.

Some special effects were cleaned up, mainly the saber glow during the Vader/Kenobi fight on the Death Star I

The sound Ben makes to scare of the Sand People is a LOT different. I've seen this movie a bunch of times, and, well, I jumped when the sound came out of my speakers... not because it was scary, but because I wasn't expecting it at all.

The Greedo scene was altered... again... while better than the SE version, still no where as cool as the classic

The Jabba CGI model was redone and looks a LOT better this time.

After the Death Star fight, there's a cut in the hanger. Luke no longer cries out "Carrie!" though I'm not 100% sure if this was cut in the SE as well or if this is new.

The Death Star's control panel is no longer in English (Though I've been told this was changed in the SEs, but I haven't seen those in years)

Some of the explosions were cleaned up (X-Wings and Y-Wings blowing up and during soe of the blaster fights)

one little good I noticed... on the Falcon during training, Luke's saber is green for a short amount of time... maybe it was just my eyes playing tricks on me

EBS - Mostly unchanged from the SE version. However, Boba's voice is now his father's... meaning the guy who did Jango redubbed Boba's lines (makes sense). Some visual effects were redone. The Emperor's transmission to vader now shows the current guy doing Palpatine and has ALL new dialogue (very cool). Luke's scream to the bottom of cloud city? gone. Nothing else is changed from the SE version.

RotJ - they really did a lot here. First off, the entire Rancor scene is cleaned up to the point where it looks like they reshot this whole scene! The rancor looks real and blends seemlessly with the footage. No more distortion from where they pasted the footage of the stop-motion prop in with the other footage. The movement of the beast has been made more natural. The twilek dancing girl's boob still pops out (YAY! Star Wars pr0n!!! for you sickos, it's before she gets thrown in with the rancor where she's pulling on her chain. it's a quickie, but if you're looking for it, you'll see it). Lando's scream at the Sarlaac is still in (I had heard they removed it). Other shots were also cleaned up. Naboo was added in the final celebration scene and yes, you see Gungans. if this ruins the movie for you, get a life or take your own. It's like a 2 second blip on the ending. Deal with it. Also, the Jedi Counsil and the old Senate building were added in the final celebration scene (or I had just missed them in the SE). The old guy playing the enlightened Vader had his eye-brows shaved off... and the new guy playing young Anakin is now in the ghost scene at the end. Meh, I'm indifferent about this. I see it as him taking the form he had when he was fully light. again, a real quick scene, don't let it ruin things for you.

[VF-1Guy]

If Anakin dies in RotS when he becomes Vader, what is left for Luke to redeem? Anakin is there all along and dies an old man, therefore his ghost should be old. I'm sure that Obi-wan wanted to believe that Anakin had died and that only the body of Anakin remained. Perhaps Obi-wan prefers to think of Anakin and Vader as seperate beings (I think some of his initial statements to Luke support this). Yoda had a more realistic view of Vader. I don't remember any Yoda lines that try to seperate Anakin from Vader. The old ghost shows that Anakin accecpts that he was Vader and that he was responsible for all that he did. The young ghost makes it almost seem that Anakin should not be held responsible for what Vader did - that was someone else (it seems that Lucas has a hard time accecpting that good and bad can exist in the same character). Not to mention that the original actor shouldn't have had his scene cut. It really annoys me that Lucas has little regard for the work that was done by the original cast and effects crew.

I've wondered why all the officers are not clones. The entire hier. of the Republic army below the Jedi 'generals' are clones. Why did the structure change so much for the Imperial army. I don't think of the Stormtroopers as elite anymore, it seems to me that they are the grunts.

It seems to me that nothing in SW is ever truely cannon - not even the movies. Lucas reserves the right to change everything on a whim.

[zeo-mare]

cool i did not relize that they were available already thanks for the reveiw i cannot wait until these come out. how good are the extras? anything aweosme that we need to know about

[bsu legato]

If Anakin dies in RotS when he becomes Vader, what is left for Luke to redeem? Anakin is there all along and dies an old man, therefore his ghost should be old.

Again, we're really in a grey area when we start talking about ghosts. I'd say that he's still the same person after his revival in the black armor. Anakin will be Darth Vader long before he dons the helmet, so it's not an issue of him dying and being "reborn" as Vader. Whatever fragment of good that is left in him when he becomes Vader will still be with him after his resurrection after the duel with Obi Wan. Therefore it seems that the years he spends as a Frankenstien monster don't count in terms of spiritual appearances.

Edited September 19, 2004 by bsu legato

[UN Spacy]

FYI: Fry's Electronics is having a TUESDAY ONLY sale for the Star Wars Trilogy.

It'll be $36.99 while supplies last.

Thank God for Best Buy and their price matching.

[Zeta Otaku]

The extras are pretty cool, definitely worth checking out. My favorite scenes are from the RotJ out takes...

director to Ewoks jumping on the Stormtroopers "Beat the **** outa them!!!"

"Han! Can you reach my lightsaber?"

"I think so..." *can't figure out which way Mark Hamil is

"That's my face."

"Oh, really? I thought it was a dear's ass."

[bsu legato]

Here's something interesting I just found on another message board. It's more to do with Revenge than it has to do with the OT, but since the topic of jedi spirits keeps popping up, I figured I'd post this. Remember, this is rumor only, but it sort of echos some spoiler-sih rumors I'd heard last year.

Palpy reveals his true self to Anakin. He basically convinces him that the Jedi are corrupt and are trying to usurp the Chancellor's power. He talks about the Jedi's alleged jealousy of him, how they never wanted to train him because they were afraid of his powers, how they were responsible for Shmi's death and could have saved her, and most importantly their strict forbidding of marriage. Basically he is pushing all the right buttons with him until he finally unloads the ultimate seduction, playing on Anakin's particular sensitivity to the issue of mortality & death.

He tells Anakin that he knows a way to cheat death and has the ability to virtually shed his mortality and make even those close to him prolong their existence forever. He makes it clear that it's an ability the Jedi order could never offer him and shockingly reveals that Qui-Gon Jinn was the first Jedi to take advantage of this death-cheating. He points out that Qui-Gon was better than the rest of the Jedi because he followed his own path and stayed true to his own feelings, not blindly following the misguided orders of the Jedi. And because of this lifestyle he was rewarded with the secret of an everlasting existence. Anakin is assured that by allying himself with Palpatine and the dark side, he would never again have to endure something like his mother's loss ever again. Palpatine then pretty much tells Anakin his plans of creating an Empire and bringing order to the galaxy. He presents the young Jedi Knight with the choice between the light and the dark side, between allegiance to the Jedi and allegiance to the Emperor.

[Chronocidal]

Heh.. here's a funny contradiction.. so... according to Lucas, Jedi aren't supposed to marry. So, that effectively nixes the EU stories involving Jedi heritage, ie, Corran Horn's family. However, Lucas, in his infinite wisdom, has also indicated that sensitivity to the Force is a biological phenomenon, passed down genetically, caused by... umm... those "M" things of which I will not speak.

So tell me again how the jedi were forbidden to reproduce, yet lasted 1000+ generations?

Granted, yes, this assumes they held the same classic principle of only having children when married. I guess it would work to randomly breed Jedi with each other, and have the children raised by the Jedi community, but I have a hard time seeing that happening.

Edited September 20, 2004 by Chronocidal

[Ladic]

FYI: Fry's Electronics is having a TUESDAY ONLY sale for the Star Wars Trilogy.

It'll be $36.99 while supplies last.

Thank God for Best Buy and their price matching.

that's a sweet freaking deal, it sucks that there are not Fry's in florida.

[GreenGuy42]

...found another OT change.

[Uxi]

Heh.. here's a funny contradiction.. so... according to Lucas, Jedi aren't supposed to marry. So, that effectively nixes the EU stories involving Jedi heritage, ie, Corran Horn's family. However, Lucas, in his infinite wisdom, has also indicated that sensitivity to the Force is a biological phenomenon, passed down genetically, caused by... umm... those "M" things of which I will not speak.

So tell me again how the jedi were forbidden to reproduce, yet lasted 1000+ generations?

Um... you have seen the movies, right? Did you actually watch them?

Correlation != Causality. The "M-things" were not explained to be either cause, or effect. There was definately a noted correlation there in the extremely brief dialogue on the subject, but is it the chicken or the egg that came first again?

All the "M-things" do is give a psuedo-physiological aspect to the whole "Force is strong in my family" schtick.

Reproduction not necessary to keep a Jedi Order of approximately 10,000 out of a Galactic Republic of trillions of individuals from hundreds, if not thousands of species. Corran Horn's Jedi tradition was explicitly stated to be different from the norm.

[CoryHolmes]

Another thing is that the Jedi grab whomever they can lay their grubby little hands on that shows any hint of Force sensitivity. That could easily mean that they grabbed from the same family line mulitple times over the last who-knows-how-many centuries.

Family != parent to child. There are such things as "siblings" and "uncles" and "cousins".

[Keith]

Now how did Qui Gon achieve immortality? Was that before or after Darth Mahl killed him?

[Uxi]

Only hint to that so far is that you hear Qui-Gon's voice when Anakin goes ape-poo on the Tuskens after his mother died...

[Chronocidal]

Heh.. here's a funny contradiction.. so... according to Lucas, Jedi aren't supposed to marry.  So, that effectively nixes the EU stories involving Jedi heritage, ie, Corran Horn's family.  However, Lucas, in his infinite wisdom, has also indicated that sensitivity to the Force is a biological phenomenon, passed down genetically, caused by... umm... those "M" things of which I will not speak.

So tell me again how the jedi were forbidden to reproduce, yet lasted 1000+ generations?

Um... you have seen the movies, right? Did you actually watch them?

Correlation != Causality. The "M-things" were not explained to be either cause, or effect. There was definately a noted correlation there in the extremely brief dialogue on the subject, but is it the chicken or the egg that came first again?

All the "M-things" do is give a psuedo-physiological aspect to the whole "Force is strong in my family" schtick.

Reproduction not necessary to keep a Jedi Order of approximately 10,000 out of a Galactic Republic of trillions of individuals from hundreds, if not thousands of species. Corran Horn's Jedi tradition was explicitly stated to be different from the norm.

Lol.. actually, I was just being an arse trying to argue a stupid point, and make Lucas look like an idiot. You're right though, I just think it seems funny that they are forbidden to marry, when without marriage, you kind of rule out a very solid source of force-capable children. I'm thinking of force-power in the purely heriditary sense here too, so that if the jedi didn't produce children, they'd die out. That rules out random genetic mutation though, which, in the light of how many jedi there were, would probably be a more likely source of force-inheritance. What I meant mentioning Corran Horn's line is that his jedi grandfather had no problem marrying, and having children. Also, that kind of kills the whole "Children of the Jedi" storyline. But there's no real conflict there anyway since Lucas doesn't acknowledge the EU as canon.

On the other hand, it also seems likely that not every force sensitive being would automatically give up his life to be a jedi either, leaving a lot of people out there who could produce force sensitive children. So yeah, I was just ranting. I'm still mad at Lucas for trying to explain away force sensitivity with some scientific answer, when it always seemed a more spiritual thing to me. But given that some people can't access it, the biological answer actually makes more sense than anything else.

Edited September 20, 2004 by Chronocidal

[Jinnai]

To sum it up..

WHO REALLY CARES?

Do you still enjoy watching the movies? ANY of them?

I got my DVD box today. And I am beyond words. To sum it up, I have never seen Star Wars like this.. it's like I'm a kid all over again, watching it for the first time.

Bring on Episode III.

[Jemstone]

So at the end of Jedi they replace the old actor of Anakin's force ghost with teh young Hayden Christiansen.  So why didn't they replace Alec Guiness with Ewan McGregor?  Why did ObiWan's ghost stay the old Ben?

According to the ROTJ commentary, Anakin appears as he looked at the time of his death. Obviously Obi Wan and Yoda dies at a much older age, and their appearance is consistant with that.

But wasn't he Anakin the Jedi again at the time of his death having killed the Emperor and saving Luke? I've been pretty silent about the changes for many many reasons. Including some I can't publically share but I think in this instance you are reaching to justify this really stupid change. Shaw should be there.

Another utterly stupid change started in the 97 version when they made Greedo shoot at Han. There was no problem with Han shooting Greedo without this stupid "self defense" reasoning thrown in for PC reasons.

edited cuz I can't type!

Edited September 20, 2004 by Jemstone

[bsu legato]

So at the end of Jedi they replace the old actor of Anakin's force ghost with teh young Hayden Christiansen.  So why didn't they replace Alec Guiness with Ewan McGregor?  Why did ObiWan's ghost stay the old Ben?

According to the ROTJ commentary, Anakin appears as he looked at the time of his death. Obviously Obi Wan and Yoda dies at a much older age, and their appearance is consistant with that.

But wasn't he Anakin the Jedi again at the time of his death having killed the Emperor and saving Luke? I've been pretty silent about the changes for many many reasons. Including some I can't publically share but I think in this instance you are reaching to justify this really stupid change. Shaw should be there.

It's true that he's Anakin once again at the time of his death. I suppose the difference is supposed to be that his last 20 years of "life" were entirely unnatural, what with the dark side and the machinery and all. *shrugs*

I won't argue with the whole Greedo thing, though.

[Hurin]

According to the ROTJ commentary, Anakin appears as he looked at the time of his death. Obviously Obi Wan and Yoda dies at a much older age, and their appearance is consistant with that.

Okay. . . let's try this again. Here is exactly what Lucas says in the commentary:

"as he joins the force he is able to retain his original identity. It's because of Obi-Wan and Yoda who learn how to do that. How to join the force at will and then retain your identity. But it was his identity as it was when he died, as Anakin Skywalker."

He could just as easily be referring to his death at the end of Return of the Jedi. Not his (totally conjectural) "death" at the end of a movie we haven't even seen yet.

To Lucas, I would think that the young Anakin is the quintessential Anakin. That is most likely why the young one appears.

But, let's not all pretend that we know the thermo-dynamic physics of how people appear when they "join with the force." Puh-leaze. For all we know, in Lucas's mind, you can "choose" how you appear. In that fanciful case, Yoda and Obi-Wan probably chose to appear to Luke as he knew them so that he will, ya know, actually know who the hell they are. If I were Anakin, who probably spent his entire time as Vader wishing to be free from the wretchedly mangled body in which I was imprisoned, you'd better believe that I'd choose to appear to my son as the young handsome man I was. . . the last vision of myself that I had before I was mangled.

But, it's getting pretty annoying to have that commentary from Lucas paraphrased so much, misrepresented, and then presented as though it can only have on interpretation.

H

P.S. Late thought: To put it succinctly. . . according to this "You appear as you were when you died" theory: That would really suck for a jedi who lived to be 120. I mean, you'd spend the rest of eternity looking like ass!

Edited September 20, 2004 by Hurin

[EXO]

so you think Anakin is handsome, eh....? hmmm....

[bsu legato]

P.S. Late thought: To put it succinctly. . . according to this "You appear as you were when you died" theory: That would really suck for a jedi who lived to be 120. I mean, you'd spend the rest of eternity looking like ass!

When 900 years old you reach, look as good you will not, hmm?

[Hurin]

When 900 years old you reach, look as good you will not, hmm?

I was afraid someone would mention that. Of course, I was referring to human jedis.

[Blaine23]

Meh. We could argue and rationalize why there's now a Hayden ghost as opposed to a Shaw ghost, but ultimately there's no real good reason for it/against it.

In my opinion, the idea to tie in the prequels to the originals is about the most logical of the bunch. Sure, it's not a real continuity driven answer, but it makes the most sense.

Most of the added scenes are pretty much the same way. Do we need Greedo shooting first or at the same time? Not really. Do we need a Han & Jabba scene? Not particularly. Does the new musical number in RotJ really add anything? Nope.

It's all incidental stuff, mostly done in the name of name of proving that it could be done. I'm not dismissing it entirely. I, for one, will accept any change that involves getting rid of the "yub yub!" song in RotJ. Also, the cleanup and FX look of the films is really amazing now.

Dealing with the "why" of Star Wars is much easier if you just accept that George Lucas is probably insane.

[Max Jenius]

I think its awesome that he's making them how he wants to. Sure, people argue that he has a responsibility to his fans... I'll give anti-GL people that... but he upheld that responsibility when he released the ORIGINAL Star Wars Trilogy on VHS "ONE LAST TIME" before the Special Editions were coming out. He gave people a nice version of what they wanted, and now he can make the films how he wants to.

There's a fine line between being an artist and a whore(which seems to be what a lot of his most voracious "fans" want him to become.)

If you really don't like the Special Editions, then get the bootlegs. Its no sweat off George Lucas' or his loyal fans' backs.

Oh yeah, to the bean counters ...

http://entertainment.msn.com/movies/article.aspx?news=168548

[F-ZeroOne]

Just been watching the "Making the Episode III Game" feature on the Bonus Disc. Would the LucasArts employee who has the Linn Minmei poster on their office wall like to stand up and be counted on Macross World, please?

[bandit29]

Mine is on the way. Should have it tomorrow.

Anyone order the R2 box set? I'd like to see/hear Star Wars in Japanese lol

http://us.yesasia.com/en/PrdDept.aspx/pid-...section-videos/

[kanedaestes]

I think its awesome that he's making them how he wants to. Sure, people argue that he has a responsibility to his fans... I'll give anti-GL people that... but he upheld that responsibility when he released the ORIGINAL Star Wars Trilogy on VHS "ONE LAST TIME" before the Special Editions were coming out. He gave people a nice version of what they wanted, and now he can make the films how he wants to.

There's a fine line between being an artist and a whore(which seems to be what a lot of his most voracious "fans" want him to become.)

If you really don't like the Special Editions, then get the bootlegs. Its no sweat off George Lucas' or his loyal fans' backs.

Oh yeah, to the bean counters ...

http://entertainment.msn.com/movies/article.aspx?news=168548

Question, when lucas first made the series, did he have the fans in mind? no there were none, he wanted to make a movie to match his vision, but due to budgets, and lack of technology we got what we got which is still good. no i too have complained about this, but after looking at some documentaries and everything, i am changing. he even said himself way back then that he was not happy with the finished product, so now that he has the chance to change them he will. look i am an aspiring film maker, now i may or may not make it who knows, but i do know this, i intend to make films the way i want, and i really only want to please myself, so if i make a film that pleases millions and becomes a huge hit, but i am unhappy with it, then yes i will make changes to to match my vision. because if nothing else neither GL or i will be making movies for the fans, we make them for our selves.

[MrDisco]

i just received my sw set + free tshirt! I havent watched it yet but let me comment on the box.

now regular members may know that i call out anime companies when they put out substandard products, particularly when attached to high profile titles. with this mind let me say that the box for SW is craptacular. The beautiful silver 'box' that we see in ads is really a thin paper slipcover. the side which is open has a promtional piece of paper GLUED to the inner box. this means to remove the dvds you have rip the ad away from the box (on the other side is a flap folded in - if you open the flap you create a crease). This is a very STUPID design. now on the spine of the inner box i have this big glue glop which although i can peel away i shouldn't have to!

The inner 'box' is again a thin paper folded box housing the 4 dvds. for something which has an MSRP of nearly $90 cdn i absolutely shocked.

so yes brand me a nut for getting worked up over this but this is what happens when dumb marketing execs come with lame ideas like this

[Jinnai]

Hmm.. your advert slip is glued on?

Mine is attached with two pieces of sticky tape.. that was easy to remove.

Then again, you can just flip the internal case around to display the DVD spines instead of the cover.

[MrDisco]

yep glue. the type that is supposed to peel away but still...GLUE???

in order to get to the internal case you have to remove the advert slip first

[mechatek]

This was posted today on thedigitalbits.com:

In all the hype over the DVD release of Star Wars, I'm afraid to say there's a bit of bad news about the discs (or at least one of them) from a quality standpoint. We've discovered what we believe are serious audio defects on Episode IV - A New Hope. We've updated our DVD review of the set accordingly with the details as follows:

[Editor's Note: since we initially wrote this review, we've detected a number of audio/mixing errors on the DVD version of A New Hope. They are as follows:

1) The familiar Force theme trumpet fanfare that used to play right after Red Leader says: "This is it!" and just as the X-wings start diving towards the Death Star's surface has been dialed back in volume so that it's almost inaudible - it's almost completely buried in the surround mix.

2) The audio quality varies wildly as Tarkin says the line: "You would prefer another target, a military target? Then name the system." - almost as if the master sound element was damaged. It's very distracting.

3) Possibly most critically, John Williams' entire score for the film has been flipped in the rear channels, so that what should be the left rear channel is playing from the right rear channel (and vise versa). What this means is that the rear channels don't match the front channels - instruments heard from the front right channel come from the left rear instead of the right rear. Again, this is very distracting once you notice it.

These problems are certainly severe enough in our opinion to merit a repressing/exchange of the disc. We're waiting to hear back from Lucasfilm on this issue and we'll update this review with the details as soon as we do.

Another disc exchange a la Back to the Future fiasco.

[ewilen]

I think its awesome that he's making them how he wants to. Sure, people argue that he has a responsibility to his fans... I'll give anti-GL people that... but he upheld that responsibility when he released the ORIGINAL Star Wars Trilogy on VHS "ONE LAST TIME" before the Special Editions were coming out. He gave people a nice version of what they wanted, and now he can make the films how he wants to.

There's a fine line between being an artist and a whore(which seems to be what a lot of his most voracious "fans" want him to become.)

Well, that's all pretty unfair.

First, though, I haven't seen AotC, and I don't own any SW videos, LD, or DVDs. As far as I'm concerned, SW has become just another crap franchise. Maybe I'll see the remaining movies on rentals. Maybe not.

The responsibility issue: VHS is a fairly perishable medium, and the technology itself is rapidly on the way out. If he was responsible to the fans (a questionable notion, actually), he'd give them the versions they want, on a medium that will last.

Artist/whore: depends on your perspective. The critics see his revisions as prostituting the original films to make them more marketable, or at least to make the franchise as a whole more marketable. You might as well call Bruckheimer an artist because he doesn't listen to critics.

I do agree that the bootlegs seem like a good option...and I'm glad they're circulating. The effort to stamp out the memory of an American classic, which had a profound effect on pop culture, in the form it was originally released is akin to vandalism.