What we know about the Supervision Army

[Morpheus]

Random false fact:

Supervision Army are a bunch of oversized space lolicons with warship.

[RedWolf]

The PC didn't "worship" the Vajra, but they did admire and envy them quite a bit. It isn't clear whether the space whales are natural creatures or PC constructed, however with the existence of the Vajra, it does make one wonder...

The White Whale is several million years old. It can't die and it eats reaction weapons for breakfast.

The Zolan's ancestors called it a god. The same ancestors could be the Protoculture.

What we do know about the SA is that they use giants or Zentradi for battle.

Exsedol in Macross 7 felt the enemy they were fighting seems familiar but dismissed it due the fighters being for miclones.

At very least the SA has a disposition for the same paint scheme as the Varauta forces.

[d3v]

Random false fact:

Supervision Army are a bunch of oversized space lolicons with warship.

No, that would be the 33rd Marine Fleet.

The White Whale is several million years old. It can't die and it eats reaction weapons for breakfast.

The Zolan's ancestors called it a god. The same ancestors could be the Protoculture.

Hence why a few people were speculating that the Protoculture may have had an animistic religion.

What we do know about the SA is that they use giants or Zentradi for battle.

Exsedol in Macross 7 felt the enemy they were fighting seems familiar but dismissed it due the fighters being for miclones.

At very least the SA has a disposition for the same paint scheme as the Varauta forces.

Makes sense since the force behind both is the same.

[Morpheus]

So Supervision Army is like an ancient Stellar Republic era version of Varauta Army right. So they sport purple color, and they must have the spiritia absorption technology fitted to their combat mecha, either that be a regult or power armor.

Darn, everytime I'm thinking about protoculture era technology (warship or mecha), my memory corrupted me by showing the Robotech Masters.

[DHX]

So Supervision Army is like an ancient Stellar Republic era version of Varauta Army right. So they sport purple color, and they must have the spiritia absorption technology fitted to their combat mecha, either that be a regult or power armor.

Darn, everytime I'm thinking about protoculture era technology (warship or mecha), my memory corrupted me by showing the Robotech Masters.

it's things like that makes me glad not to have watched robotech as a series i never saw robotec masters or southern cross

[cyde01]

The PC didn't "worship" the Vajra, but they did admire and envy them quite a bit. It isn't clear whether the space whales are natural creatures or PC constructed, however with the existence of the Vajra, it does make one wonder...

nope. in the final episode, grace states that the PC envied, admired, and ultimately deified the vajra. why would the deify the vajra if they didn't worship them?

[ShadowValkyrie]

nope. in the final episode, grace states that the PC envied, admired, and ultimately deified the vajra. why would the deify the vajra if they didn't worship them?

Fear, or considering the "Devil" to whoever the PC's real "god" was. Any number of lines of thought that would lead a culture to thinking of a race as a "god" but not necessarily worshiping them.

[Zinjo]

nope. in the final episode, grace states that the PC envied, admired, and ultimately deified the vajra. why would the deify the vajra if they didn't worship them?

Deify??

I somehow doubt the PC were Vajra fanboys...

The race was pivotal to their advancement and ultimately their ability to colonize much of the galaxy. They feared the Vajra because they understood what instantaneous fold communication could mean to their civilization if controlled by malevolent hands or if they pissed off these beings with naturally occurring SD organs and the destructive power they could muster from that source!

I recall no deification of the Vajra, fear of them, yes....

[RedWolf]

Deify??

I recall no deification of the Vajra, fear of them, yes....

Protoculture artifact at the end with Brera.

One retroactive clue is Macross Dynamite 7. Where the ancient writings on Whale bones which Zolan snakes can read indicate the ancestors respected the Val Ena enough that they called the White Whale a god.

Zolan snakes I believe are biotech translators left by the Protoculture. They even resemble Vajra larva in a way.

Which gives us the impression given what Grace said that the Protoculture respected, admired, fear and defy (copying the Vajra) the Vajra that the Protoculture have an animist belief system.

Which makes sense given the Mayan belief system of being one with nature.

Only in the Protoculture's case they place Superdimensional creatures higher than others.

[Zinjo]

Protoculture artifact at the end with Brera.

One retroactive clue is Macross Dynamite 7. Where the ancient writings on Whale bones which Zolan snakes can read indicate the ancestors respected the Val Ena enough that they called the White Whale a god.

Zolan snakes I believe are biotech translators left by the Protoculture. They even resemble Vajra larva in a way.

Which gives us the impression given what Grace said that the Protoculture respected, admired, fear and defy (copying the Vajra) the Vajra that the Protoculture have an animist belief system.

Which makes sense given the Mayan belief system of being one with nature.

Only in the Protoculture's case they place Superdimensional creatures higher than others.

IMO, that's still quite a stretch...

The artifact is no real surprise as we were told the PC emulated the Vajra's abilities with technology. It is entirely possible that before the Vajra, SD fold travel was not possible or at least very limited.

Edited October 30, 2008 by Zinjo

[BadMotherFokker]

What can I say? I know this thread is old, dead and what have you. Nevertheless I've scoured the net looking for any Supervision Army fan art and I can't find a scrap of it.

It's kinda disappointing. Even the whole idea of them being "brainwashed by the protodevlin" to fight the Zentradi doesn't really satisfy me much. Talking to an American soldier for a few minutes about their role in the post-9/11 world about asserting American global dominance makes me feel like they're part of the Supervision Army anyway. Well, if we have credible references to similar organizations in today's world, we should have a working background story....

I look at it more like this: You have two big factions of war clones fighting each other, and an entire galactic empire tricked into needlessly spending its entire economy into churning out war machinery on both sides. Of course someone's pulling the strings, just as someone's pulling the strings in today's global society. You don't necessarily have to be a Spiritia-sucking vampire to do that. Just a mean little protoculture hell-bent on depopulating space (Henry Kissinger?) setting everyone up for proxy warfare that the public buys into (Zbiginew Brezinski?) and while everyone's occupied with figuring out where to run to, go off and learn the secrets to omnipotence via gene manipulation...

if you get from this that I might be okay with just assuming Macross 7 may never have happened, well... yeah

[RedWolf]

Well we don't know exactly what happened to them after the Protodevlin were sealed.

Only that their forces are fighting groups like Bodol Zer who according to the Macross Chronicle did not recieve orders from the Protoculture to reenact the non-interference directive.

The Supervision Army were composed of both Protoculture and Zentradi.

[Zinjo]

Well we don't know exactly what happened to them after the Protodevlin were sealed.

Only that their forces are fighting groups like Bodol Zer who according to the Macross Chronicle did not recieve orders from the Protoculture to reenact the non-interference directive.

The Supervision Army were composed of both Protoculture and Zentradi.

It is my personal belief that the SA are split into two camps. Those who are still under PD mind control and blindly fighting the Zentreadi and another who've woken up and are simply fighting for their very lives!

As for any pictures of SA not being found that is not surprising, as they are even more visually enigmatic than the PC. However it isn't a huge stretch to believe that they may possess both Zentreadi and bio-mecha (AFOS), though nothing as advanced as the EVIL series were... Since all their gear was co-opted from the equipment they used at the time of their mental control.

I suspect we may never see the PC and if we ever do, it will be in the form of a SA PC commander. The PC are a near extinct race and I suspect SK likes keeping them a mystery. Adds to the magic that is Macross...

Edited November 23, 2008 by Zinjo

[taksraven]

I suspect we may never see the PC and if we ever do, it will be in the form of a SA PC commander. The PC are a near extinct race and I suspect SK likes keeping them a mystery. Adds to the magic that is Macross...

I agree that it adds to the mystery, but if they were ever going to do a "Final Macross" (heaven forbid), I think that a confrontation between humans and a resurgent protoculture would be the way to go.

Then they could make Macross series set in an alternative universe, with roles reversed, which everyone would enjoy.

Taksraven

[Sweet Zombie Jesus]

Is there some reason why people seem to assume the Supervision Army is just a remnant fighting for it's life? (Other than the fact they have not shown up on screen). Because I get the impression from the way they are discussed in SDFM that they are a significant force, possibly a match for the Zentradi.

I mean, Bodolzaa's fleet was the 118th Zentradi Fleet and had 4.8 million ships, and his reason for wanting the Reaction Weapon technology was to gain an advantage over the Supervision Army. (I can't remember the exact episode where he said this, but he did, I watched the whole series again last weekend). If a warrior civilisation with a total force in excess of half a billion ships is desperate enough to risk contact with miclones (which they believe could potentially cause their downfall) to gain an advantage in their war, then it stands to reason that their enemy must be formidable.

As to why they have not been encountered, in episode one, Britai mentions that the Supervison Army vacated the region around Earth 8 terms ago (how long is a term by the way?). Who know how big this region he refers to is. It could be that the war is concentrated in other parts of the galaxy and 50 years and 55 fleets does not give enough time or coverage to encounter them.

I don't think Macross 7 contradicts this. I haven't watched it for a while though.

[RedWolf]

I think some make the argument the SA is running for their lives is because we haven't seen them except for two wrecked ships. (The Macross and the SA wreck seen during the operation to steal the factory satellite.)

From conversations of Boddole Zer these guys are still live and kicking. Plus there is a reason why Millia and Chlore have a kill score competition.

Frankly I believe that the Human-Zentradi expansion are in areas of the galaxy with no known Zentradi-Supervision Army fighting.

When you think about it NUN are still outnumbered. Thus a policy of non-contact may be enforced to avoid a repeat of Space War 1.

Fleets are exploring regions where the fighting are least likely. Like the Galactic Core Region (part of it is Vajra country) and Galactic Rim Region (Galactic Whale country).

At the Rim another miclone race , Zolans, joined the Human-Zentradi hegemony. So you could say the Protoculture had foresight to seed planets away from the frontlines and Protoculture territory.

[Seto Kaiba]

Is there some reason why people seem to assume the Supervision Army is just a remnant fighting for it's life? (Other than the fact they have not shown up on screen). Because I get the impression from the way they are discussed in SDFM that they are a significant force, possibly a match for the Zentradi.

I don't think Macross 7 contradicts this. I haven't watched it for a while though.

I think the general reason most people assume/imply that the Zentradi had the Supervision Army is that Macross 7 established that the Protodeviln were the ones who created and controlled the Supervision Army by spirita-draining the protoculture they encountered, and that they had been sealed away hundreds of thousands of cycles prior to 2009. That Vrlitwhai would have his entire fleet pursuing just one Supervision Army gun destroyer would certainly seem to imply that their war had deteriorated into more of a mop-up operation.

[sketchley]

(...) That Vrlitwhai would have his entire fleet pursuing just one Supervision Army gun destroyer would certainly seem to imply that their war had deteriorated into more of a mop-up operation.

The Zentradi Army's Vrlitwhai Fleet arrives within the Solar System. During its enemy search operation for Supervision Army survivors, the fleet happened to detect traces of an Supervision Army gun destroyer's (Macross's) defold reaction from 10 light years away and came in pursuit. Macross's Main Cannon automatically fires.

http://macross.anime.net/wiki/2009

I don't think that they knew it was a Supervision Army Gun Boat simply from the traces of the defold that they happened to detect.

Nevertheless, it's ambiguous at best. All we can verify is that a) the Inspection Army left the area and b) the Buritai fleet was searching for survivors in the area.

[RedWolf]

Plus it was implied that Exsedol has already seen Supervision Army fighters. When he saw the Varauta fighters he couldn't place a finger that they seem familiar but he dismissed it as they were miclone fighters.

The Supervision Army and the Varauta Army considering their mutual benefactors likely have similar paint jobs.

[Gubaba]

Plus it was implied that Exsedol has already seen Supervision Army fighters. When he saw the Varauta fighters he couldn't place a finger that they seem familiar but he dismissed it as they were miclone fighters.

The Supervision Army and the Varauta Army considering their mutual benefactors likely have similar paint jobs.

Or, he could've recognized them because they were modified VF-14s...

[RedWolf]

Or, he could've recognized them because they were modified VF-14s...

His response was "Nah couldn't be". Later in the series he was quaking in his boots saying "Protodevlin".

My interpretation was he had a clue but dismissed it seeing these were Valkyries not battlepods.

[Gubaba]

His response was "Nah couldn't be". Later in the series he was quaking in his boots saying "Protodevlin".

My interpretation was he had a clue but dismissed it seeing these were Valkyries not battlepods.

But he only said "Protodeviln" after Sivil showed up, IIRC...

[Roy Focker]

They don't encounter the Supervision Army that much at all. Neither do they meet those 1000 Zentradi Main Fleet that are suppose to be out there. It is a big galaxy. I bet they are all there.

Some where out there. If love can see us through. Well be together some where out there some where dreams come true - An Ancient Supervision Army Song Found discarded paper plate

[Project Phoenix]

Way to resurrect an old topic!

I always thought the Supervision Army will eventually be featured as antagonists in Macross sequels. Alas, all we got were the Protodeviln and Vajras.

[RedWolf]

Way to resurrect an old topic!

I always thought the Supervision Army will eventually be featured as antagonists in Macross sequels. Alas, all we got were the Protodeviln and Vajras.

I had the feeling that the Mardook was supposed to be the Supervision Army even if it is set in another continuity.

Of course it is jossed as Macross II Lovers Again is a sequel to DYRL.

[Zinjo]

Is there some reason why people seem to assume the Supervision Army is just a remnant fighting for it's life? (Other than the fact they have not shown up on screen). Because I get the impression from the way they are discussed in SDFM that they are a significant force, possibly a match for the Zentradi.

I mean, Bodolzaa's fleet was the 118th Zentradi Fleet and had 4.8 million ships, and his reason for wanting the Reaction Weapon technology was to gain an advantage over the Supervision Army. (I can't remember the exact episode where he said this, but he did, I watched the whole series again last weekend). If a warrior civilisation with a total force in excess of half a billion ships is desperate enough to risk contact with miclones (which they believe could potentially cause their downfall) to gain an advantage in their war, then it stands to reason that their enemy must be formidable.

As to why they have not been encountered, in episode one, Britai mentions that the Supervison Army vacated the region around Earth 8 terms ago (how long is a term by the way?). Who know how big this region he refers to is. It could be that the war is concentrated in other parts of the galaxy and 50 years and 55 fleets does not give enough time or coverage to encounter them.

I don't think Macross 7 contradicts this. I haven't watched it for a while though.

I tend to foster the belief the SA are fighting for their existence because it makes sense to me.

The PD were sealed as a result of the PC Anima Spiritia soldiers' work. We know that after PD mind control is broken the victims take several hours to recover. Now place this into a battlefield situation. The Zentradi and PC forces square off against the PD and the SA. The AS soldiers go to work. They could conceivably disable the SA fleet just from the affects of Anima Spiritia (I won't say singing, since it really isn't established what forms AS came in, we've only seen one) and then move on to the PD.

Now when the SA come back around they become aware that they are on a battlefield with hostile Zentradi forces all around. Fight or flight kicks in and we go from there. With the PC only able to reinstitute the non-interference protocol in a portion of the all their Zentradi forces, they loose control over their army. Whether the PC recognize the SA as repatriated citizens or not, the SA has become a target for the Zentradi, who either equal their number or are vastly out numbered by the giants (since the Zents are clones, I'd lean toward the latter).

Since the SA were composed of PC and Zents and being an Inspection force tasked with guarding the EVIL series research site, I'd expect they had the latest hardware available, couple that with absorbed armies of Zents, I suspect, "pre-protocol removal", they would be a formidable enemy. Now when faced with millions of enemy ships and billions of enemy soldiers the battles would have been quite brutal and no doubt the SA's numbers suffered. The only thing I'd expect that gave them a survival edge was the superior weaponry they may have possessed and their ability to repair and improve their gear.

I tend to believe that the reason why there were so many collateral casualties in the subsequent battles was that any PC world that would have given aid and comfort to the Zentradi enemy would have been decimated much like Bodolza's demonstration to Hikaru and Misa, when he ordered his ships to bombard a nearby planet. It wouldn't matter to the Zentradi and any pleas that the SA were actually repatriated PC would likely be considered a trick by mind controlled microns...

There could very well still be mind controlled SA still in the galaxy, however after countless ages I find it difficult to believe that the PD mind control would be generational and that at no point were the SA ever exposed to music or culture of any kind in their travels.

That's my theory anyway...

Edited September 15, 2009 by Zinjo

[RedWolf]

That's my theory anyway...

Mind you in the Rax ruins the Protoculture that built it had the intention to re-absorb Zentradi into society. Thus a hybrid as Mylene was the password for the message. 85% of their race was wiped out.

Plus the superstition that contact will destroy the Zentradi could be interpreted as the Zentradi abandoning their warrior culture going native. Undoubtedly Golg Boddole Zer thought the same so before humans become a plague to their way of life he proceeds to exterminate them.

Also some other Protoculture leaving the Birdman on Earth means they don't want humans to eventually become like them and turn on them like the Zentradi did. A doomsday protocol.

In contrast to their Human and Zentradi cousins Zolans appears to have not a tendency towards violence and excessive force. They use beam stun guns and adhesive Shock Gun Pods.

[Mr March]

There's no solid information on the Supervision Army, so no one can say much for certain. All we know is that the Protodeviln were defeated. Thus, many of us assume their Supervision Army, while still a formidable force, was on the losing side. Now that situation might not mean much given the scale of this massive war and the hundreds of thousands of years during which the war has been waged. The ebb and flow of the war might have turned back and forth thousands of times.

Either way, it doesn't really matter all that much. Whether the two factions are still equal, or the Zentradi have the upper hand, the way the fiction is described can obviously support either interpretation. And the end result is the same. If the Zentradi Army = Supervision Army, then the fact that the war hasn't ended for hundreds of thousands of years means neither side is gaining. If the Zentradi Army > Supervision Army, then there's so many ships and so much territory that the war is still ongoing for hundreds of thousands of years. Either result, on any reasonable time scale, is an effective stalemate.

[RDClip]

I really hope we can see some actual involvement from these guys in a future Macross production, maybe as the major antagonists. We all know their origins, but i'd like to know what their motives are for fighting the Zentradi since the extinction the the PC. Yes a fight for survival may make sense, but it's kinda lacking in interest for me. Maybe they worship the Protodevlin as Gods and bla bla whatever goes with that.

[Zinjo]

I really hope we can see some actual involvement from these guys in a future Macross production, maybe as the major antagonists. We all know their origins, but i'd like to know what their motives are for fighting the Zentradi since the extinction the the PC. Yes a fight for survival may make sense, but it's kinda lacking in interest for me. Maybe they worship the Protodevlin as Gods and bla bla whatever goes with that.

It depends on how its presented.

Kawamori used misunderstanding to drive the conflict of Vajra. Who knows, he could use ignorance as the basis for a conflict with the SA... However, one thing I do realize is that he has yet to come up with something we'd expect...