Hero

[Oihan]

I have yet to see this movie, but am looking forward to it. Have either of you seen it yet? If so, what are your thoughts/opinions on it? Thanks.

Edit: I just realized this movie doesn't come out till the 27th or so...but it seems a few ppl have seen it...so I don't know what the deal is.

Edited August 24, 2004 by Oihan

[mikeszekely]

Well, the fight scenes are very reminiscent of Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, and it has Jet Li and Zhang Ziyi, two of my favorite Chinese actors. So, you'd think I'd love it, right? But much like Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, let's just say the ending ruins the whole movie.

[Wabbit]

Very... Very colorful!

[Graham]

Wow old movie, Hero was released in HK like what about a year ago

Not my type of movie, as I hate HK style Kung Fu movies where all Chinese think they can fly and leap tall buildings in a single bound, i.e. Crouching Tiger. Sorry, in all my years studying various martial arts, I've never come across a martial art that teaches flying

An interesting phenomenon I've noticed is that while in the West, Crouching Tiger was a big hit, in HK, most people thought it was just barely average.

Graham

[Keiichi]

Uh, well I thought it was fantastic, I don't want to spoil anything but I really liked how the story unfolded. The imagery and the fight scenes were all great too, a much more enjoyable film than CT, HD.

[bomar]

well i liked the movie not as good as i hoped i liked Crouching Tiger alil better

[bsu legato]

Ehh, it was pretty good but not great, despite Tarantino's endorsement. What little story there is, is a fairly Rashomon-esque sequence of two or three fights. The fights themselves are well done, but beyond that there's not much to see. I'd give it a 6.5 out of 10.

Not my type of movie, as I hate HK style Kung Fu movies where all Chinese think they can fly and leap tall buildings in a single bound, i.e. Crouching Tiger. Sorry, in all my years studying various martial arts, I've never come across a martial art that teaches flying 

Er, I'm pretty sure that's supposed to be mythical, or something.

[eriku]

Heh, I remember seeing the 12" action figures for this movie in a hobby store here over a year ago. As of yesterday there is still one left actually....

[the white drew carey]

Wow old movie, Hero was released in HK like what about a year ago

Not my type of movie, as I hate HK style Kung Fu movies where all Chinese think they can fly and leap tall buildings in a single bound, i.e. Crouching Tiger. Sorry, in all my years studying various martial arts, I've never come across a martial art that teaches flying

An interesting phenomenon I've noticed is that while in the West, Crouching Tiger was a big hit, in HK, most people thought it was just barely average.

Graham

I'd have to completely disagree. I'd rather see completely unexplained flying kung-fu like Crouching Tiger, Hero, The Swordsman or (one of the best, and funniest) Fong Sai Yuk, over the bumper crop of really bad "real" kung-fu flicks that come out every year.

Flying Kung-Fu is, for me, one of the most fantastical of the martial arts genres and, when done right, can yield some great classics.

Sure, it's completely unrealistic but hey, we're hanging out at, and/or admin, a forum based on the premise of alien technology granting us transformable F-14's!!!

So, in summation, Graham- you are wrong.

And he's right that Ying Xiong (Hero) was released in 2002. Regionless DVD's can be found about on the internet.

[Wabbit]

I would like to have the dvd of this movie, but only the extended edition (about 10 mins longer).

[bsu legato]

I would like to have the dvd of this movie, but only the extended edition (about 10 mins longer).

What did they cut? Yet another retelling of what really happened to Broken Sword?

[Graham]

Flying Kung-Fu is, for me, one of the most fantastical of the martial arts genres and, when done right, can yield some great classics.

One thing I hate and have always hated in movies is unrealistic, exagerated, over-the-top combat scenes, whether it be hand-to-hand combat, sword fights or gunfights.

Personally, I think that showing realistic skill in any of the martial arts or combat disciplines is far cooler than 'wirework' martial arts or John Woo style jumping through the air in slow motion firing two pistols at once.

It's just a pity there are so few actors or directors capable of displaying/filming realistic skill at arms these days.

Graham

[the white drew carey]

Flying Kung-Fu is, for me, one of the most fantastical of the martial arts genres and, when done right, can yield some great classics.

One thing I hate and have always hated in movies is unrealistic, exagerated, over-the-top combat scenes, whether it be hand-to-hand combat, sword fights or gunfights.

Personally, I think that showing realistic skill in any of the martial arts or combat disciplines is far cooler than 'wirework' martial arts or John Woo style jumping through the air in slow motion firing two pistols at once.

It's just a pity there are so few actors or directors capable of displaying/filming realistic skill at arms these days.

Graham

While I agree with your statement, I also don't really think of flying kung-fu (never "wire-fu") as a true representation of martial arts.

But I still think it's cool.

Like chicken.

And I loooove chicken.

For me, it all comes down to presentation. You can have one of the best martial artists in the world, but when you put him in a dumb movie with bad plot, script, story or cinematography, it can really hurt the presentation of the skills.

[Hurricane29]

Flying Kung-Fu is, for me, one of the most fantastical of the martial arts genres and, when done right, can yield some great classics.

One thing I hate and have always hated in movies is unrealistic, exagerated, over-the-top combat scenes, whether it be hand-to-hand combat, sword fights or gunfights.

Its Chinese Propaganda!

[eugimon]

it's just non asians being jealous, it's quite easy to fly, you just have to fall and miss the ground.

[Yohsho]

Being that I grew up with a Grandma who had VHS's filled with martial arts like these types of movies these are nostalgic to me. I like this movie because of the way the whole story plays out. The fighting is good as well.

[NSJ23]

Ok, is US version of Hero going to be subbed or dubbed(I really hope not)?

If subbed I'll buy the region 0 DVD I have been thinking about buying on E-bay for a year now.

Anyone know how the english subs on the DVD are?

[jwinges]

I've got the All region DVD at home. I like it a lot better than crouching tiger hidden dragon. Not as much flying around. Better cinematography. Brillant use of color. Note: Read The New type review of the movie after you've seen it.

Great film, I've watched it about 3 times over the last 4 months and might go see it in the theater too.

[Drad]

I've got the All region DVD at home. I like it a lot better than crouching tiger hidden dragon. Not as much flying around. Better cinematography. Brillant use of color. Note: Read The New type review of the movie after you've seen it.

Great film, I've watched it about 3 times over the last 4 months and might go see it in the theater too.

How are the effects in the original release? I've heard that the US release of the film is going to be spruced up a bit. Probably more digital effects, new score and remixed audio track. Still, those enhancements may not necessarily make it better.. just different. I'd like to know if the original is good in those areas as well.

[Hiriyu]

it's just non asians being jealous, it's quite easy to fly, you just have to fall and miss the ground.

That's hardly a strictly asian discipline... If I recall correctly, this skill actually comes from Betelgeuse .

...And slightly on-topic, Graham, I believe that the reasons movies like Hero and Crouching Tiger do better in the states is that they've actually received wide release and heavy promotion, whereas "legitimate" Kung Fu flicks are much more a niche which generally doesn't recieve regular media attention.

Edited August 24, 2004 by Hiriyu

[Die, Alien Scum!]

Sure, it's completely unrealistic but hey, we're hanging out at, and/or admin, a forum based on the premise of alien technology granting us transformable F-14's!!!

LOL, drew! You've got a point there!

As long as we're on the subject of realism, I've got a question for everyone:

Who would win this fight? Jet Li flying around vs. Kaifun shooting energy beams from his hands?

Hopefully Jet... cuz Kaifun's a dick!

[Max Jenius]

What I wanna know is why Tarantino's name is on the film?

Looks cool btw...

[drifand]

HERO is a kungfu movie made by a Chinese director for non-Chinese audiences. The un-subtle use of colors and cinematography ARE supposed to wow audiences expecting exotica. Zhang Yimou already has recognition, but CRAVES for popular success, and maybe an Oscar. But the plot? The storytelling? Tired. Hackneyed. The audience at the screening I attended last year LAUGHED at the awkward overacting by Maggie Cheung. More laughter during the arch dialogue during the confrontation between the HERO and the Emperor. Being able to understand the words in original Chinese allows one to appreciate the bad writing, I guess. Hero may be good exotica, but it's crap Chinese cinema.

Um. Think of Hero as the Toynami MPC of the kungfu genre. Beautifully packaged gloss, no spirit.

Edited August 24, 2004 by drifand

[the white drew carey]

What I wanna know is why Tarantino's name is on the film?

Looks cool btw...

The story I heard is that Miramax wanted to release a pared down version of the film because western audiences wouldn't get a lot of the eastern stuff. Tarantino said that would be stupid and lobbied for the full-release (but not the director's cut). Miramax countered and told Tarantino that if they could put "Tarantino Presents" on the film (therefore using his name recognition to fill seats, and make more money) they would leave it intact.

That's what I heard. I'm not sure if it's true, but I've seen that explanation in several places already.

[Zentrandude]

What I wanna know is why Tarantino's name is on the film?

Looks cool btw...

The story I heard is that Miramax wanted to release a pared down version of the film because western audiences wouldn't get a lot of the eastern stuff. Tarantino said that would be stupid and lobbied for the full-release (but not the director's cut). Miramax countered and told Tarantino that if they could put "Tarantino Presents" on the film (therefore using his name recognition to fill seats, and make more money) they would leave it intact.

That's what I heard. I'm not sure if it's true, but I've seen that explanation in several places already.

very interesting. soooo we could have something like

Tarantino Presents..... macross or lord of the rings

[Wabbit]

I would like to have  the dvd of this movie, but only the extended edition (about 10 mins longer). 

What did they cut? Yet another retelling of what really happened to Broken Sword?

Just a little more dialogue, 10 mins is not much.

[mikeszekely]

HERO is a kungfu movie made by a Chinese director for non-Chinese audiences.

If that's the case, they should have taken the time to come up with a decent ending.

I mean, you hear talk about the "American" need for happy endings in films... let's talk about the Chinese need for tragic endings. Because, let's be honest... if something like Crouching Tiger or Hero happened to real, rational people, things would have been handled much differently. But in the movies, we have characters who could resolve things quite simply, yet make ridiculously irrational choices that take away from the story or ignore the wishes of the characters who were their friends or comrades in the story, just to pin some tragedy on the end. And while it made me scratch my head and say "that was kind of dumb" in Tiger, it actually ruined Hero for me.

[JsARCLIGHT]

Hero was a slow, easily forgettable movie from 1992 starring Dustin Hoffman, Jeena Davis and Andy Garcia about a bum who saves people from a plane crash but a pretty boy takes the credit instead...

... oh wait...

You mean the HK movie...

[fearyaks]

Eh, it isn't too bad. I think the story is overly simple but the camera work and fight scenes are quite entertaining. For what it is (simple action flick), the execution is quite good.

[Agent ONE]

It is blasfamous to have a movie with this name and not be staring the OAK.

No Schwarzenegger = Not a good movie.

[Golden Arms]

HERO is a kungfu movie made by a Chinese director for non-Chinese audiences. The un-subtle use of colors and cinematography ARE supposed to wow audiences expecting exotica. Zhang Yimou already has recognition, but CRAVES for popular success, and maybe an Oscar. But the plot? The storytelling? Tired. Hackneyed. The audience at the screening I attended last year LAUGHED at the awkward overacting by Maggie Cheung. More laughter during the arch dialogue during the confrontation between the HERO and the Emperor. Being able to understand the words in original Chinese allows one to appreciate the bad writing, I guess. Hero may be good exotica, but it's crap Chinese cinema.

Um. Think of Hero as the Toynami MPC of the kungfu genre. Beautifully packaged gloss, no spirit.

The earliest Martial Arts movies of the 20's and 30's had lots of superhuman feats. Characters routinely flew and used weapons that could fly or had magical properties. Hero and Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon aren't the only films to use these things. Zu Warriors from the mystic Mountain, The bride whith White Hair, Saviour of Soul, The dragon Inn, etc. This isn't a new phenomenon but a return to what was done generations ago. This is an evolution from the Peking and Bejing performance schools. It really shows you the differening film backgrounds in Western and Eastern audiences.

If this movie were made for Non Chinese audiences then non of the mystical elements would be incorporated in the film. No walking or running on water. No flying, no shooting in China. Nor would the North American release be subtitled (it would be dubbed with Tom Cruise or Brad pitt supplying the voices). Nor would the film be released nearly 2 yrs later after its initial release. A western ending would have a happy ending with the protagonist reunited with his love interest. I held off buying this movie months ago, so I could wait for its theatre release.

[Chowser]

any word on if this is going to be properly subtitled or badly dubbed?

friday's coming up. i need things to do since i can't go back to work.

figured i could go watch 3 movies this friday.

[Wabbit]

A western ending would have a happy ending with the protagonist reunited with his love interest. I held off buying this movie months ago, so I could wait for its theatre release.

And featuring Chuck Norris.

[bsu legato]

i need things to do since i can't go back to work. figured i could go watch 3 movies this friday.

You would be better off going to see Collateral three times in a row.

[ewilen]

Spoilers in white below

I picked up the region 0 DVD in Oakland Chinatown a couple weeks ago. Some thoughts...

The cinematography is superb, and I think that is one thing that both this film and CTHD offer over many other Hong Kong martial arts films--although I suspect the quality has improved overall since the 80's/early 90's.

The story, however, is awful. Some spoilers here, so stop reading this paragraph (or if you're the kind of person who reads out loud, cover your ears). If you're okay with spoilers, highlight the rest of the paragraph to continue. It contains a Rashomon-like series of different versions of the same story. However, unlike Rashomon, there's no psychological ambiguity as to which story is "real". Instead, the first and second versions are simply misleading "theories" about previous events (one is a deliberate lie by the main character, while the other is a partially correct guess by the king); the third version is what really happened. Each telling is of course an excuse for various fight scenes. The actual plot concerns a man who conspires with several famous outlaws to assassinate the king of Qin, who is on his way to conquering China and becoming the first emperor. Jet Li's character is motivated by revenge for his father (I think) who was killed during one of Qin's conquests. By pretending to have killed the three outlaws, Li hopes to gain access to the king. But once the final story is told, Li realizes that his personal vendetta is less important than the peace which will come about if Qin finally unifies China. On top of all the melodrama and opaque character motivations which have been mentioned above, I found this ending particularly unconvincing and, in fact, distasteful. It's hard not to see the heavy hand of contemporary politics, with the director, Zhang Yimou kissing up to the current PRC authorities by saying, essentially, that order and unity are higher ideals than justice and freedom. Historically, the Qin dynasty lasted only about 37 years and is remembered as a tyranny for imposing heavy burdens on the population and burning literary classics which were not "politically correct". The implications for Hong Kong's autonomous government, Taiwan, and activists for human rights in China are obvious. I suspect that the nature of Zhang's story may have been influenced by the need to obtain permission to film in the Forbidden City, as well as by Zhang's difficulties with the government over the nature and funding of his earlier films.

In general, I do like the "flying" style of martial arts movies such as Zu, Savior of the Soul, East is Red, as well as more realistic (though over the top and funny) Jackie Chan stuff. I really don't care for Jet Li that much--I remember enjoying Bodyguard from Beijing, being only mildly interested in My Father is a Hero, and downright bored with the various Once Upon a Time in China movies. The latter I remember as being extremely unrealistic even though there was no magic. I recall a scene where for no particular reason the characters had to fight on top of a bunch of bamboo frames and ladders and it just went on much too long for me.

One more thing--Zhang Ziyi is almost completely wasted in the movie.

Edited August 24, 2004 by ewilen