The Official Aim for the Top! Gunbuster Thread

[chrono]

Well if you look at the GB series, as to it's era of anime that it was released in, it makes crap loads of sense. From the music to the sharp focus on relationships and developing personal strength to today's slow revealing of hazy information married with ridiculas Super Uber Mecha action.

But the first GunBuster also helped to set-up one thing that is so prevlent in today's anime/manga and that's intergrated cycular foreshadowing. Remember the song that Coach Oto & Kazumi Amano sung in the series beginning? Now remember NGE's stupidly high amount of cycular foreshadowing?

If anything BOTH GB's show us that a story can be well told and be emersive enough to become great!

[wolfx]

This is the part I don't get.  Are we assuming that time will only go one way? That is forward.  You can either "speedup" time relative to the rest of the people by doing their lightspeed thing, or just go as the normal pace as everyone else, but how can you go back to something 10 years, even if you're traveling at let'sassume C speed, wouldn't time be moving forward? 

Yeap that would be right. No time travel here. Except there's no speeding up of time. Just that you experience time differently from ppl that aren't doing light speed.

I just know of that big ship the Exelsomething and the Lukushionsomething (I'm terrible with names), yea but what's the Luxion?

Not sure what subs you're watching. Its the Exelion, the ship that carried the Buster Machines, and the Luxion, that is Noriko's dad's ship which is derelict in subspace.

Maybe I should see Back to the Future 1-3 again, I think that was one of the rare movies/shows that made the concept of time travel more digestible.

422501[/snapback]

There are some theories to time travel. One interesting one which is different from the more popular thought of "changing history" is that time cannot be changed. Its all fated that for example WWII will happen. Even if u travelled back in time to kill Hitler, someone would take his place instead. Time is like a stream which eventually leads to the sea. You could throw stones at the river, cause splashes, or even divert the water but ultimately it ends at the sea. Gah something like that.

Mikuru from Melancholy of Suzumiya Haruhi put it in this way: That the act of going back in time is like inserting a frame between a bunch of frames that make a cartoon. That one frame isn't gonna be detrimental to the overall animation so time travel is more for observation than anything else.

WHoops...sorry I OT-ed.

Akilae:

One of my ol Physics profs once commented that while "time travel" itself might not be possible, it's feasable if we change our concept of time travel and apply some Einstein. Using layman's terms: If we assume that all time travel is is the desire to observe what happened in the past, all we would need to do is travel faster than the speed of light, speed away from the object we seek to observe, stop, turn around, and we would be able to observe events as they unfold. So theoretically, if we wanted to observe the Romans being decimated at Cannae, we simply need to plot out how far out we need to travel away from Earth. Really simple conceptually.

Interesting. Is this something like stargazing? The stars we look at are probably already dead but because we're so far away from them, we're looking at images of their selves when they were still alive cause light can only travel so fast.

[Seven]

Man, I envy Spatula. I wish I could relive that first time I watched Gunbuster. It made my jaw drop by the last episode as it had totally surpassed any expectations I had. Note that I was watching it along with Dangioh which was released by US Renditions at the same time in the early 90s, which was more what I was expecting.

[chrono]

One of my ol Physics profs once commented that while "time travel" itself might not be possible, it's feasable if we change our concept of time travel and apply some Einstein. Using layman's terms: If we assume that all time travel is is the desire to observe what happened in the past, all we would need to do is travel faster than the speed of light, speed away from the object we seek to observe, stop, turn around, and we would be able to observe events as they unfold. So theoretically, if we wanted to observe the Romans being decimated at Cannae, we simply need to plot out how far out we need to travel away from Earth. Really simple conceptually.

Actually it can go both ways. FTL outwards, but then travel back towards earth at lightspeed. However your limited to your optics and overall tech level on how far going back would be possible.

[Spatula]

Not to skew the thread, but what is Dangioh. I saw copies of it at HMV and the character costumes seemed strikingly similar to those "baywatch" one piece suits (very sexy) of well, GB.

Just to note, I WILL get a R1 copy of Gunbuster, because well, it's still a very good show, despite me not getting everything 1st viewing. I watched the US Renditions or whatever torrented, so the quality is obviously lacking.

Not sure what subs you're watching. Its the Exelion, the ship that carried the Buster Machines, and the Luxion, that is Noriko's dad's ship which is derelict in subspace.

I still don't understand this part. Isn't the ship already destroyed? No matter how fast you travel, this event occured in the past. Unless this is just the left over debris and Noriko happened to come by it, hence the blown up bridge.

[Fort Max]

The ship was attacked 10 years in ago in real time which means that ten years has passed on earth.

But, because the ship is moving so fast time dilation effects it and time on board the ship moves much slower then time outside.

So because time on board the ship is so slow the ships computers have only advanced two days (or whatever it was).

[Spatula]

Um okay. I'll pretend that I get it.

[Akilae]

I still don't understand this part. Isn't the ship already destroyed?  No matter how fast you travel, this event occured in the past.  Unless this is just the left over debris and Noriko happened to come by it, hence the blown up bridge.

422567[/snapback]

lol, guys, I don't think the confusion is about time dilation.

The Luxion wasn't pulverized... it was sunk and sent into acceleration in subspace. So yes, it still possible for Noriko to board it.

I guess what you're thinking is destroyed = atomized.

[Spatula]

Basically blown up into a billion ga-jillion specks of space dust like Alderaan, or the Death Stars. LOL.

[wolfx]

Yeap. Its possible that the bridge was destroyed in subspace as it was travelling FTL. So since the bridge was already destroyed, nobody was around to command it to decelerate into normal space, so in space you'll just keep going at that speed even if your engines aren't working. Hope that helps.

[Keith]

Don't forget Gunbuster was also a pioneer in the fanservice department. Didn't it revolutionize admited breast jiggling?

[Vermillion21]

Man, I envy Spatula.  I wish I could relive that first time I watched Gunbuster.  It made my jaw drop by the last episode as it had totally surpassed any expectations I had.  Note that I was watching it along with Dangioh which was released by US Renditions at the same time in the early 90s, which was more what I was expecting.

422553[/snapback]

Actually, both Gunbuster & Dangioh were two of the earliest animes I ever watched after Robotech. And I was pleasantly surprised by both.

The ending to Gunbuster was bittersweet .... while the ending to Neon Genesis Evangelion = WTF?!?!?

[kyatsu]

is the gunbuster toy out yet? if so, can i ask where i can purchase it? kyatsu

[Spatula]

Here's a couple things you "trekkies/macs/swarsies" can help me out with:

Lightspeed (well this is self explanatory)

Warp (multiple folds of lightspeed - amirite? Star Trek)

Fold (see Macross)

Subspace - I see this a lot in Star Wars and Macross

Hyperspace - I guess this is Star Wars conterpart to ST's Warp.

So, care to differentiate some of this?

Edited August 5, 2006 by Spatula

[Seven]

Here's a couple things you "trekkies/macs/swarsies" can help me out with:

Lightspeed (well this is self explanatory)

Warp (multiple folds of lightspeed - amirite?  Star Trek)

Fold (see Macross)

Subspace - I see this a lot in Star Wars and Macross

Hyperspace - I guess this is Star Wars conterpart to ST's Warp.

So, care to differentiate some of this?

422763[/snapback]

Warp - a form of FTL travel that is measured in warp factors that are equivalent to how many times over the speed of light you are travelling. Warp 1 is equal to the speed of light, while Warp 2 is twice the speed of light and so on. There is no time dilation in warp.

Fold - utilizing a fold generator, two points in space are folded together where the spacecraft will travel between the two points. There is a factor of time dilation, where 1 hour in fold travel equals 10 days in normal time.

Subspace - an extra dimension underlying the normal universe where travelling between two points is translated differently than in the real universe. Most of the time, when some form of FTL is discussed, subspace is the medium by which a spacecraft will travel avoiding regular physics.

Hyperspace - In Star Wars, this is different than subspace and more like Star Trek in that a vessel in hyperspeed will not travel through subspace, but will traverse in the real universe. Hyperspace travel is through routes that have been cleared, since blind hyperspace travel will result in vessels running into planets, suns, asteroids, etc.

In Gunbuster, there are two methods of travelling, which is regular acceleration, which the closer to light speed, the higher the time dilation due to real physics. Then there is their warp, which uses the Tanhauser gate and etc to fold two points while the vessel travels the shortened distance between the two points in subspace with there being time dilation effects as well.

I hope that helps.

Edited August 5, 2006 by Seven

[Noriko Takaya]

God, I go away to Otakon 2006 for a day and the board explodes...

[Akilae]

Here's a couple things you "trekkies/macs/swarsies" can help me out with:

Lightspeed (well this is self explanatory)

Warp (multiple folds of lightspeed - amirite?  Star Trek)

Fold (see Macross)

Subspace - I see this a lot in Star Wars and Macross

Hyperspace - I guess this is Star Wars conterpart to ST's Warp.

So, care to differentiate some of this?

422763[/snapback]

hmm... here's a different answer:

I'm not totally clear on Star Trek or Star Wars physics, but supposedly, any speed at or faster than the speed of light is subject to time dilation... the concept of Warp should therefore be very problematic for the ST universe (since no time dilation ever occurs in said universe).

Folding, on the other hand, is a much more elegant solution. The idea is what you don't need to travel fast at all, just open up a portal (fold space), travel through, and voila! Almost as good as instant transportation. Not a whole lot of science fiction deals with this... Event Horizon was one of the few that did it well (it dealt with opening wormholes, more specifically, what happens when you can't decide where you open a wormhole to?). Homeworld's "gating" technology would be conceptually similar.

Hyper/Sub-space is usually used mostly as a flashy term to not deal with time-dilation. I'm sure there's some sort of sound physics theory behind it though.

[chrono]

SW has Hyperspace which is a slightly different dimension so it's not subject to relavatistic time.

In ST, Warp travel is a part of a lower level of existing space/time but at the same time a part of 'hyperspace' and because of plot armor handwavium if they don't have a "complete" warp bubble in place they don't move at lightspeed and don't suffer time dilation.

[Spatula]

Yeah I always imagined that there was little shift in the time continuum for Hyperspace, you're just travelling bloody fast. If there was major time dilation, then Palpatine would surely be in his grave by ROTJ. Similiarly with Warp speed, me thinks. Again this is well, um, not exactly easy stuff for me to digest.

I think the fold is the most neatest yet most far out concept of getting from point A to B.

Is this the same concept that if it takes the same amount of time (lets say 3 hours) to travel 1 lightyear or 100 lightyears? Man, that's way over my head.

Also, I'm sorry Noriko. Gunbuster has...changed me? There's something about GB's ending that disturbs me (no where near as bad as EOE though, LOL. REI AYANAMI OUTTA NO WHERE!)

Edited August 6, 2006 by Spatula

[Noriko Takaya]

Also, I'm sorry Noriko.  Gunbuster has...changed me?  There's something about GB's ending that disturbs me (no where near as bad as EOE though, LOL.  REI AYANAMI OUTTA NO WHERE!)

422834[/snapback]

Hey, that's all right. The ending definitely affects you in one way or another. It actually made me cry at the thought that she would never be able to live with the ones she loved in the same time stream again. But at least the population of Earth never forgot the sacrifice Kazumi and Noriko made to save humanity, as they were there to welcome them both home.

[jwinges]

Is ep 6 out yet for Gunbuster 2?

[Seven]

Is ep 6 out yet for Gunbuster 2?

422889[/snapback]

2 more weeks before it is released in Japan. So give it two months or more before it gets subbed and released here.

[Keith]

Note on folds:

There are actually two types shown in Macross. The first being the more commonly recognized point to point fold, where the space between two points is completely folded, allowing instananious travel. The second being more of a long distance fold, where the space between two points is "mostly" folded, but some distance between is travelled, assumedly this is the version where a time dialation takes place.

The difference between the two would be the initial fold that took the Macross & South Atalia out into space, while the other would be represented by the longer trip Britai took to meet up with the Bodolza fleet (with Hikaru & gang as prisoners), or Isamu's fold from Eden to Earth.

[Fort Max]

is the gunbuster toy out yet? if so, can i ask where i can purchase it? kyatsu 

422712[/snapback]

Bandai's big Soul Of Chogokin Gunbuster isn't scheduled for release untill Novemeber so untill then you're just going to have sit tight like the rest of us.

As for where to buy it, I'd say HLJ.com because there is no where in the UK that will sell it but if you're in america then you have the luxury of being able to get it in comic shops as Diamond imports most SOC's now.

[kyatsu]

so, the gunbuster that is coming out at the end of september is made by what company? kyatsu

ps

thanks for replying to my question. i really appreciate it

is the gunbuster toy out yet? if so, can i ask where i can purchase it? kyatsu 

422712[/snapback]

Bandai's big Soul Of Chogokin Gunbuster isn't scheduled for release untill Novemeber so untill then you're just going to have sit tight like the rest of us.

As for where to buy it, I'd say HLJ.com because there is no where in the UK that will sell it but if you're in america then you have the luxury of being able to get it in comic shops as Diamond imports most SOC's now.

422985[/snapback]

[Fortress_Maximus]

I still don't understand this part. Isn't the ship already destroyed?  No matter how fast you travel, this event occured in the past.  Unless this is just the left over debris and Noriko happened to come by it, hence the blown up bridge.

422567[/snapback]

lol, guys, I don't think the confusion is about time dilation.

The Luxion wasn't pulverized... it was sunk and sent into acceleration in subspace. So yes, it still possible for Noriko to board it.

I guess what you're thinking is destroyed = atomized.

422654[/snapback]

IMO I was thought the bridge was destroyed in the alien attacks and anyone including Noriko's dad that did not evacuate either off the ship or elsewhere were probably sucked out. The OVAs never did clearly explain and/or identify why the bridge was destroyed so, it really is anyones guess.

Also, for the time limit Coachie set, it was b/c as he stated too much time would pass in the present IF they remained on the Luxion which was traveling at near lightspeed. DanguardAce nailed it, "They had only 10mins to do their reconnaisance since 10mins relative to them while they approach lightspeed is 6 months for everyone else who are not traveling near light speed."

Interesting enough, the entire GB series is testiment to how so much time on Earth passes Noriko as she is out in space. IMO out of all of the characters she alone experiences the longest missed time on Earth. After all, to Noriko her experiences in space only spans a few months, that is of course before her final return home with Kasumi. When you really think about it, Noriko is probably one of the loniest/tragic characters ever created in anime history. The world events and all the people she ever loved passed her by and she barely aged, it is practically as bad as being cursed with immortality. Poor Noriko... ah, how we love thee.

Edited August 6, 2006 by Fortress_Maximus

[Vermillion21]

This is kind of off topic, but after doing an eBay search for "Soul Of Chogokin toys", I've realized that this seems to be a toyline made by Bandai, is this right? Anyone know where I can read up on the lineup?

Thanks in advance.

[Spatula]

Well, time only "fast forwards" when she's in light speed right? Not when she's just in the regular phase in space some couple hundred lightyears away in Galaxy Milkshake or something. Still. I'm just surprised the captain of the Exelion was still alive.

[Hiriyu]

Well, time only "fast forwards" when she's in light speed right? Not when she's just in the regular phase in space some couple hundred lightyears away in Galaxy Milkshake or something.

423065[/snapback]

You are more or less correct, but time dilation is always working at different levels of relative acceleration, it is just far more pronounced the faster a traveller goes. At .0001% the speed of light ("C"), the effect is still measurable, though small. The faster you go, the more noticeable the effect becomes. This effect has been tested in real life by taking an atomic clock up in an airplane and checking its synch with one on the ground after landing. Our present day artificial satellites even need to regularly correct for time, relative to "ground time".

Still.  I'm just surprised the captain of the Exelion was still alive.

423065[/snapback]

Being a space captain he has probably spent most of his intervening time at high rates of acceleration, so he has probably aged at about the same rate as Noriko between his commands of the Exelion and the Eltrium.

[chrono]

I still don't understand this part. Isn't the ship already destroyed?  No matter how fast you travel, this event occured in the past.  Unless this is just the left over debris and Noriko happened to come by it, hence the blown up bridge.

422567[/snapback]

lol, guys, I don't think the confusion is about time dilation.

The Luxion wasn't pulverized... it was sunk and sent into acceleration in subspace. So yes, it still possible for Noriko to board it.

I guess what you're thinking is destroyed = atomized.

422654[/snapback]

IMO I was thought the bridge was destroyed in the alien attacks and anyone including Noriko's dad that did not evacuate either off the ship or elsewhere were probably sucked out. The OVAs never did clearly explain and/or identify why the bridge was destroyed so, it really is anyones guess.

Also, for the time limit Coachie set, it was b/c as he stated too much time would pass in the present IF they remained on the Luxion which was traveling at near lightspeed. DanguardAce nailed it, "They had only 10mins to do their reconnaisance since 10mins relative to them while they approach lightspeed is 6 months for everyone else who are not traveling near light speed."

Interesting enough, the entire GB series is testiment to how so much time on Earth passes Noriko as she is out in space. IMO out of all of the characters she alone experiences the longest missed time on Earth. After all, to Noriko her experiences in space only spans a few months, that is of course before her final return home with Kasumi. When you really think about it, Noriko is probably one of the loniest/tragic characters ever created in anime history. The world events and all the people she ever loved passed her by and she barely aged, it is practically as bad as being cursed with immortality. Poor Noriko... ah, how we love thee.

423023[/snapback]

Ok, the subs I saw must have been flubbed some how because what caused them to be 3 months late was Noriko's having to be drug back into the dec-vehicle and that they overshot they dec-point by like 13 seconds causing them to miss their support pick-up and taking up 3 extra months of their time getting rescued!

[wolfx]

Ok, the subs I saw must have been flubbed some how because what caused them to be 3 months late was Noriko's having to be drug back into the dec-vehicle and that they overshot they dec-point by like 13 seconds causing them to miss their support pick-up and taking up 3 extra months of their time getting rescued!

423075[/snapback]

I honestly have no idea what you're talking about in the para above?

Anyway after deceleration, i'd think that they have to re-accelerate back to base unless the Exilion went to pick them up?

[chrono]

Ok during their pre launch briefing they were told that the mission would only take 3 months earth time, instead they over shot the decel point and get back home in 6 months and not the 3 orginally planned for. So either my sub was bad or they had to spend 3 months being found and picked up.

My basic question was whether the number of months was correct or not. Because it really helps to establish the shows tempo.

[wolfx]

Ok during their pre launch briefing they were told that the mission would only take 3 months earth time, instead they over shot the decel point and get back home in 6 months and not the 3 orginally planned for. So either my sub was bad or they had to spend 3 months being found and picked up.

My basic question was whether the number of months was correct or not. Because it really helps to establish the shows tempo.

423129[/snapback]

Oh. I can't remember how many months exactly they were "off-schedule". But they basically overshot the real time because they spent an extra few minutes in light speed trying to recover noriko.

But the whole time thing is abit iffy especially the ending. How long have they been on the Gunbuster for that many years to have already passed?

[Keith]

It's not so much "how long have they been in the gunbuster," as it was how long they took to detonate the bomb. Obviously things didn't go according to plan, and only thanks to Noriko's improv did they succeed. The extra time spent however caused them to miss far more "real time" than they had planned. For them however, it would have been a matter of minutes.

[wolfx]

That's not quite true cause they detonated the bomb in real space, so it didn't matter how long they took to activate the bomb unlike the luxion mission which happened in subspace.

Its travelling back from the center of the universe to earth without warp that caused time to pass so fast for them. I don't remember how much time has passed for both Noriko and Amano while they were floating in space though but couldn't be more than a few days for them to be still alive. If this is the case, they must've been travelling SUPER DUPER FASTER THAN THE SPEED OF LIGHT from the center of the universe to earth. And even so, they had to decelerate for them to not fly past earth, so is this even possible with the Gunbuster as a wreck? Or maybe they did warp.....i dunno. Maybe someone can clear this up.