All right, let's settle this once and for all...

[kensei]

Hey guys,

I was just wondering about the future, past and present of Macross. Is it or isn't it popular, not only internationally, but in Japan? There seems to be a lack of shelf space for Macross items even thought there are no shortage of items being made.

I know that Gundam is all the craze there. I don't mind Gundam, but Macross is just a bit more down to earth IMO. Don't get me wrong, I'm not bashing Gundam, I acknowledge that it is great, but I just prefer Macross.

I've been through different magazine articles that say when Macross TV series first came out it was a big success, apparently the episodes after "Force Of Arms" were made in response to the demands of thousands of fans wanting to know how the love triangle between Hikaru, Misa and Minmay finished. Otherwise, things would have ended then and there. Also, Macross 7 was (according to my sources) a great hit as well (a bit of contreversy here, even hardcore Macross fans disagree) so I believe. So why isn't there such a big impact of Macross in terms of merchandise and new stuff (eg Macross Zero) amongst the Japanese, and more specifically, anime fans in general?

Just a question bugging me I suppose.

Thanks in advance for any helpful replies.

[Skull Leader]

Because Japan simply moved on to bigger things (I.E. more gundam).

SDF Macross did well enough when it was actually out, it just dissapeared from the mainstream market pretty fast after it finished it's run. It's rather akin to the US Market when TMNT came out... it was vastly popular while the TV series was on the air, but within around a year of the original TV show going off the air, the toy market completely dried up (I understand this has been reversed with the new TV show, but that's for another discussion)

Basically you're looking at the whole "out of sight, out of mind" concept... Macross came out in a highly developmental time in Japanese anime history. There were a lot of new anime series that were just hitting the ground around that time (and the years immediately following). The thing that kept it out of the limelight for so long (I think) was that it was 10 years before we saw another incarnation of Macross in ANY form. So it wasn't as if it were bad or something, I think it just fell victim to a flooded market (you'd be hard pressed to find a child of the early 1980s that loved Robotech, GI Joe, Transformers, Voltron, He-Man, StarBlazers, AND Thundercats all together... simply too many different areas of interest to cover)

Disclaimer: I know kids existed that DID like all of those, I was nearly one of them (except He-Man), but the average kid had two or three interests TOPS at that age

My whole take on the issue.

[EXO]

Macross was the secinf most popular show at one time after Gundam, but all the new shows that are coming out have already overshadowed it. In the US, Cartoon Network and Tech TVs have pushed Evangelion, Inuyasha into the forefront of anime. Not to mention Disney's support of the Studio Ghibli films.

Another thing that weakens Macross's popularity is that it's split by the Robotech factor. A lot of people that watched robotech still don't know what Macross truly is. I have a friend visit me last week that noticed my art books and even though the books don't have the name Robotech on it, he still called it by that name. I was shocked because here's a guy that works with web sites and the internet, yet he hasn't touched upon the subject of Macross vs RT. I'm not starting an age old argument. I'm just trying to explain a huge deterrence to Macross's true potential.

This and Skull Leader's explanation are 2 big factors to Macross's lack of popularity. I'm sure if the majority of the fans were given what they want, which is a follow up to the original love triangle, the fandom would pick up a bit more. But I got a feeling that's just too cliche for the Hory froating head. In any case I'm up for anything that comes next after Zero...

[Hurin]

>EXO<

Everything you said is dead-on. But I think the original poster is more interested in its popularity in Japan and/or Asia at large.

[platypiman247]

I think a big that part of Gundams success is that it's concept is indeffinate enough to allow it to branch out into different universes, each with its own set of rules, history, and characters. Also, the nature of the protaginist & antagonist in Gundam allow them to return in later series and movies, especially the Zion in the Universal Centry timeline.

I doubt in the future, we will see a series in which hyper customized, ethnically themed VF's have at it, though it would be cool (if not original)...

[bandit29]

If Macross is ever going to be popular again it needs a few things:

A full TV series or even a Manga series to be in the anime public eye. An OVA like Macross Zero is really for fans(fanboys) only. It's not going to attract many new fans.

Toys to go along with whatever new series. Not Collector's toys. Cheaper toys. Toys for kids. You're not going to expand your fan base with only expensive merchandise. For the most part, Macross stuff is aimed at the older fans and is expensive to collect.

That being said, Macross has its following(like alot of anime shows) but the chances of it cultivating new fans are slim. I doubt many kids are impressed with a poorly animated 20 plus year old anime show.

[Skull Leader]

my response was pretty much aimed at the Japan following at large, I simply used US examples as comparisons.

[Drad]

Macross, while hugely popular in Japan at one time, is simply old (yeah, shaddup.. I can hear the old jokes coming like a storm toward those of us who are 30 and up). It's had a few different series, sure.. but it's not being reincarnated every nine seconds with about forty billion tons of merchandising and marketing behind it, like Gundam. Even with Macross ZERO, it's just not a priority. It's not getting "The Push."

So Macross' appeal remains with mostly the older generation of anime fans. Everyone else is paying attention to other series.. and of course King Gundam.

[bandit29]

. Even with Macross ZERO, it's just not a priority. It's not getting "The Push."

Regarding Macross Zero, what is there to push? A few models? Those crappy CM figures? An episode that comes out once every 6 months? There really isn't anything to push.

[Drad]

. Even with Macross ZERO, it's just not a priority. It's not getting "The Push." 

Regarding Macross Zero, what is there to push? A few models? Those crappy CM figures? An episode that comes out once every 6 months? There really isn't anything to push.

True.. but that exact lack of merchandise and marketing could be considered as Macross not being "pushed." It's definitely not high on the priority list for anyone in Japan besides a few hardcore fans and those responsible for the property.

[VF-101Guy]

not to change the general theme here but its a basics of supply and demand. If there isnt much of a demand for a product then naturally the makers are going to take their time with it. I remember when i first started watching anime and the first series i collect was bio-booster armor guyver "waits for the laughter to stop" and man i had to have everything from the series all the videos, toys, model kits ect.. then after a year or so of collecting and several hundreds of dollars later a friend of mine in high school told me about an older anime called macross. Well he brought it over and man i was amazed. So naturally i went for the macross stuff and completely forgot about the guyver stuff. Now that im older and getting back into the macross series theres more i want to know about it than i did when i was 16 or 17. AND its true that the press "ie cartoon network, boomerang ect" do look for younger crowds to market their products too. I have a 5 year old son that refuses to watch macross but loves to watch sd gundam and every weekend its daddy can you build this for me??? As for robotech im not really going to go there. have the series on dvd watched it and even thou some of the characters are the same it just doesnt have the same feeling as macross does. Its a shame that after 20 some odd years that hasegawa is starting to do a wonderful line-up of kits and even revell did some great ones for robotech but as in all good things i guess it will finally end and something newer will come out to replace the old but hey if the 70's can come back then why cant the 80's...thanks for reading and i hope this made some sence.

[LordSixx]

I think we Americans have pretty much taken up the Macross Fan Base. We were all introduced to it as RT as youngsters. To us, it just hasn't died, and with the additions of Plus and Zero to fuel the fire, it has grown in popularity here. To me, it's better than Star Wars... and that says a lot! We don't get as flooded with quite as much anime as Japan does. As far as other titles such as Gundam, etc., they just don't have the appeal that Macross does. Lets face it, giant robots with guns kick ass, giant robots with swords... no thanks! It does suck that we are divided as Macross/RT fans, but that also adds fuel. It creates controversy, much like our political parties. We also have a lack of availability of Macross merchandise due to this legal thing going on over the rights. Therefore creating the law of supply and demand, which is something the Japanese fans don't have to endure.

[Keith]

Considering that Macross has been popular enough to still spawn sequels & merchandise through out 3 decades in Japan, I think you guys are over analyzing this a bit. It's not like it's Mospeada or Orguss (two great shows too by the way) which are literally dead franchises now. Macross has successfully popped up every 5-10 years with something new, and none of it (except for II) has been considered commercial flops.

[Agent ONE]

Macross won't ever be "popular" again. Big robot epic stories are really an 80's thing.

[The White Comet]

For the most part anime fans in Japan are a lot less nostaligic about things than we are. Once something new comes out they forget about whatever they just watched and go on to the new stuff. Whenever I asked a japanese anime fan my age (mid-20's) about macross they didnt know anything about it other than Macross 7 because thats what they grew up watching.

[Beltane70]

Macross' popularity is still big enough for Hasegawa and Yamato to keep coming out with a few toys and models every now and then. Granted, it's nowhere near as popular as Gundam, but it's not totally dead.

[Boxer]

Oh quit whining. Macross has a respectable fanbase that would kill the creators if they said there would be no more Macross. It's prevailant here and in Japan. At least you fans with Macross have respectable sequels with hefty content and aren't just repeats of the same basic plot with variations *CoughGundamCough*.

Orguss, on the other hand, in the heels of Macross died. And what did it get for a sequel? A dissapoinging Ova that has nothing to do with the origional series it was based on. And don't get me started on the 'Orguss 2', which asthetic-wise looks more like a living insult to the Orguss series than a tribute.

If you start worrying about Macross fandom don't, at least it has 7 (a complete second series, Which has it's fans and haters). Orguss didn't even deserve any real second thoughts other than this laughable sequel. As for Mospedia it too hangs in the dark (Virtual obscurity under it's Robotech shadow...) but at least it isn't attatched with a horrible 'sequel.'

[Mr March]

Macross is certainly not a dead franchise. If that were so, new product would not be produced. However, neither is Macross a top-shelf cash cow because it just doesn't receive that much acclaim or coverage.

If I were to make a North American analogy (being a born and raised Canadian), I would call Macross the "Alien" franchise of Japan. There is still enough interest in Ridley Scott's original movie monster to justify the production of models, toys, books and games as well as the occasional film. However, the franchise just doesn't pull in big receipts that it once did nor is it on the top of our pile of popular culture. It's just a respectable franchise that continues to produce product for a fanbase that will consume it.

Remember that as fans, we have a skewed perspective of our favoured works. We latch onto art/entertainment that we like and stay with it over the years, often revisiting our treasured productions time and again.

The majority of the entertainment consuming public lives in the moment. They watch whatever happens to be the "big" thing at the time then they forget about it, eager to indulge in the next trend.

Macross has passed its prime. Sure we all enjoy sequels and new stories for our favorite animes, films, or books, but it's always the promise of something new that keeps us looking toward the future. Star Wars, Alien, Mad Max, Star Trek, et cetera were all fine entertainment in their time, but eventually both the fickle public and even the diehard fan demands better. This spawns Lord of the Rings, The Matrix, Babylon 5, and will inspire others (including myself, hopefully) to create new works as well.

Gundam, Macross, and other such animes were great for their time, but I'm constantly on the look out for new anime to keep me interested in the genre as a whole. Macross - at least for me - has enjoyed artistic longevity in spite of its age simply because Macross has not suffered from overexposure. But eventually the new material will lack innovation and fail to inspire at which time I'll cherish my early Macross and leave the rest for better works. Luckily Cowboy Bebop, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex and others are being created to move the medium forward and keep me entertained.

Whether we as individuals enjoy new anime more or less than what has come before only speaks to our own degree of obsolescence.

[platypiman247]

Macross won't ever be "popular" again. Big robot epic stories are really an 80's thing.

Luckily, nostalgia allows past crazes(good or bad) to reemerge one or two decades later, sometimes in slightly different forms, so perhaps we're getting close to a point at which we will begin to see a new flow of Big Robot anime.

[eugimon]

Macross won't ever be "popular" again.  Big robot epic stories are really an 80's thing.

Luckily, nostalgia allows past crazes(good or bad) to reemerge one or two decades later, sometimes in slightly different forms, so perhaps we're getting close to a point at which we will begin to see a new flow of Big Robot anime.

heh?

so what do you owe the massive popularity of evangelion, escaflowne and not to mention the endless stream of gundam and the other big robot anime?

[Gui]

And Gasaraki, and Nadesico, and... Etc

All the more as this expands onto other medias aswell, such as video-games with Heavy Gear and Mechwarrior but also Steel Battalion or Armored core, and I don't even talk about RT adaptations because they're not really 'new' strictly speaking though they're into the big robot thing too

[nhyone]

so what do you owe the massive popularity of evangelion, escaflowne and not to mention the endless stream of gundam and the other big robot anime?

The children of the 80s never grew up; they did grow old..

[Zentrandude]

so what do you owe the massive popularity of evangelion, escaflowne and not to mention the endless stream of gundam and the other big robot anime?

The children of the 80s never grew up; they did grow old..

dont make us smack you with our 80's hair and music videos.

[Agent ONE]

Macross won't ever be "popular" again.  Big robot epic stories are really an 80's thing.

Luckily, nostalgia allows past crazes(good or bad) to reemerge one or two decades later, sometimes in slightly different forms, so perhaps we're getting close to a point at which we will begin to see a new flow of Big Robot anime.

heh?

so what do you owe the massive popularity of evangelion, escaflowne and not to mention the endless stream of gundam and the other big robot anime?

Its just a resurgance for nostalga sake... Not because its really making a comeback.

[ewilen]

I don't know...it seems to me that anime has branched out from robot stuff but the real robot genre never really went away. The giant robot genre on the other hand may be due to nostalgia.

Anyway, if people keep using Gundam as the yardstick for whether a show is popular in Japan over the long term, I doubt that anything will come close to measuring up. Put Macross up against anything else, and I'll bet it does pretty well.

[Radd]

Macross won't ever be "popular" again.  Big robot epic stories are really an 80's thing.

Luckily, nostalgia allows past crazes(good or bad) to reemerge one or two decades later, sometimes in slightly different forms, so perhaps we're getting close to a point at which we will begin to see a new flow of Big Robot anime.

heh?

so what do you owe the massive popularity of evangelion, escaflowne and not to mention the endless stream of gundam and the other big robot anime?

Its just a resurgance for nostalga sake... Not because its really making a comeback.

But these shows have been bringing in lots of new fans, many of whom were still crapping their diapers during the 80's.

[eugimon]

eh, big robot anime has never gone away... maybe in america, but it's popularity in japan has remained strong.

a lot of the big anime series are big robot shows.

[Culverin]

um.

all the guys i know like big robots.

for me.

my biggest problem was accessiblity.

gundam is everywhere. and i started buying them before i watched my first episode.

mind you, i picked up a couple macross models before i watched the series too.

but considering that i only got the episodes now (rented at blockbuster - thank you god).... it is rather pathetic from a mecha geek and anime fan.

SDF Macross has both good art, and good story.

and a real series, not an OVA would help push it.

somehow, that just doesn't seem like the Macross style you know?

[ewilen]

the real robot genre never really went away. The giant robot genre on the other hand may be due to nostalgia.

Make that "super robot", not "giant robot".

Here's an interesting summary of Japanese animation over the years: Recommended Anime: TV Series (See also the Movies and OAV links.) Recent giant robot anime on the list: Rayearth (1994), Evangelion (1995), Escaflowne (1996), Nadesico (1996), GaoGaiGar (1997), Vandread (2000), RahXephon (2002).

Not on the list (for whatever reason) is Blue Gender (1999).

Although some of the above may be somewhat parodic of earlier works, I don't think it would be accurate to say they represent a nostalgic revival of a dead form. Instead, Japanese anime (like the Super Sentai stuff and HK cinema) constantly recycles themes and comments on them self-referentially.

[platypiman247]

My question is where can a new Macross series go? Macross has already covered several diverse plot ideas, and though it would be nice to have a new Macross series, I would not want it to be generic.

[azrael]

so what do you owe the massive popularity of evangelion, escaflowne and not to mention the endless stream of gundam and the other big robot anime?

Good marketing.

[ewilen]

I've suggested that they could go for a story that's more exploration oriented and/or which mainly concerns an encounter with the Supervision Army. More of the Protoculture background has been revealed in M7 and M0, but I'm sure there's still stuff to explore. I'd see it as something like "Macross meets 2001".

On the other hand, in another thread I basically agreed with Final Vegeta that Kawamori isn't necessarily interested in fleshing out the Macross universe so much as using it as a convenient background for certain stories that interest him. So I'd suspect that if he's going to do any more, his first step would be to find a theme, then make it into a Macross story only if it fits the setting and expectations (i.e., Valks, music, and romance).

What I'd really hate to see is a sequel that undermines the previous stories. E.g., one of the main points of SDF Macross was the creation of a new human society (Egan Loo's liner notes say that Kawamori viewed the Macross "as a new 'Earth of Culture' compared to the Earth of nature" that rejects the SDF-1 in episode 20.) I wouldn't want to see the new culture split by an all-out civil war just to provide an excuse for action scenes.

[nathan]

I think a lot of it has to do with marketing and production. Macross isn't really marketed here like other series. And new series are produced only when the creators deside to make a new series. That hurts sales. Six months or more between OAV episodes and people are going to lose interest. Other's like GM have something new almost constantly.

Toys are way to high priced. I want a toy I can play with and can afford to replace if I break it. Not one that's so expensive I can't even take it out of the box.

There's also the whole Robotech HG thing which doesnt need going into.

Then there's the confusing Official story/Official design thing. Some explainations work and some obviously dont. SDF-1 gets a refit and VF-1s get upgraded. No problem. Exedols head and arms doesnt make sense. TV ARMDs dont officially exist but Movie designs dont fit the story? Why don't they just reanimate Macross?

Retell the official story with new animation with the official designs. Bubblegum Crisis and AD Police, and Dirty Pair to name a few have all been retold. So why not redo Macross? You'd solve the official story/design problem. Give fan's Hikaru, Misa, and Minmay again. And introduce newer fans to Macross as younger kids will watch it. And they can thumb thier nose at HG while doing it as it's a different Macross! They could even go past the 36 episodes and integrate Macross 2012 into the series and end with the Megaroad 1 launching.

Other new stories would also be nice. (As long as they don't take 6 months per episode. They lost me for M0 because of that.) I'd love to see a ground war after SW I. I don't think all the Malcontent Zentraedi died with Kamjin. You've also got the Anti-UN Army. Lets see more of them.

As for Ogruss 02, yes it wasn't as good as it could have been but the original series does leave room for a sequal. Think of it like this. Kei and Olsen broke many various earths. When they fixed them they left cracks. (Anyone who's tried to repair something broken know's what I'm talking about. It was these cracks that allowed Mimsy, the Colonel, and the various mecha to appear on another earth. Then the colonel fixed the cracks at the end of the series and everything was finally put back right. When I saw it like that I realised it's better than what I first thought. Still not very good but ok. Definatly not an abomination as some would believe.

Edited August 25, 2004 by nathan

[eugimon]

that's what I loved about macross plus... it explored the world a little and introduced new characters and their personal drama.

the macross universe is huge, I see no reason why they need to stick to the original cast of characters, lets move on.

And I do like the idea of re-animating macross... I know a lot of people are getting tired of the VF-1 design, but I still love it and I would love to see it get some modern animation

[Kamjin 639]

the macross universe is huge, I see no reason why they need to stick to the original cast of characters, lets move on.

...and I think that Kawamori would completely agree with you!

Pretty much, Macross has been travelling the path of the lone wolf for the past twenty years. Flashback 2012 was the swan-song of the original Macross series, and since then, those in charge have pretty much said that Macross is going to travel in a lot of different directions. So, while it may have been possible to see a sequel to the original series long ago, I think that, (without sounding condescending) the damage is done, and so, the show must go on.

With that in mind, I really don't know how much longer Shoji Kawamori should stick around. Shoot me; I don't bleed. X) Indeed, Kawamori tells a good story, but we've gotta think that there's only so much a single man can do, and unfortunately, it always seems that, when people are looking for new Macross ideas, Kawamori's the only one to talk to. I cite Macross 7 Trash as an instance of a solid story built upon Macross, but not told my Kawamori. Now, make no mistake, I have all respect for Mr. Kawamori, but the fact is that, through his Macross stories, you can almost guess that he was a fighter-plane otaku before he began his directing career...And that's just fine, but if we want something that takes Macross in a bold new direction, I just don't see it coming from him.

Edited August 25, 2004 by Kamjin 639