VF-19P?

[Graham]

With a few mods to the head of a 1/144 VF-19Kai you can make a VF-19P. Hmm...

Not just the head, you also need to modify the lower legs to add the two micro-missile ports and of course add the speakers on the shoulders.

Graham

[Nied]

I've always thought that the first production model, the VF-19A, which is almost identical to the prototype YF-19, except for having more powerful engines was primarily designed to be optimised for atmospheric combat as the design seems to emphasise atmospheric control surfaces rather than a large number of verniers.

Whereas the VF-19F/S which have fewer and smaller atmospheric control surfaces (smaller wings, no canards, no lower leg fins), but a greater number of verniers, are optimised for space combat.

Of course all variants of the VF-19 are capable of flying and fighting in both space and atmosphere but some are optimised for one space and some for atmsophere.

If you think about it, this sort of makes sense. I mean a colony fleet like Macross 7 spends 99.99% of it's time in space until it finds a suitable planet to colonise, which could take years or even decades, so it makes sense to have the fighter force optimised for space combat.

Graham

I've alwasy had some trouble with the idea that the VF-19F/S are just space optimized fighters intended for regular line use. For one we never see them used that way, and second the claim that they had yet to reach full production yet doesnt sit right with me either. In an age where giant mobile factories can churn out whole starships in a matter of months I find it hard to beilieve that only a squadron's worth of fighters could get built over the period M7 takes place. The existance of an S model points more to the F/S pair being intended for a special forces role instead of a mainline fighter (it is certainly used that way in M7, and all other S models contemporaries are specifically identified as SF). I could see a situation where both Shinsei and General Galaxy submited proposals to the Spacy for a SF fighter, the GG design won but Shinsei held on to the design and shopped it around to cash strapped colonies and colony fleets as a cheap way to upgrade thier SF squadrons. Or alternatively the Spacy turned down a space optimized VF-19 and chose instead to replace most space based VF-11Bs with -11Cs, so Shinsei tweaked the design and sold it as a cheap SF fighter. Either seems more plausible than the idea that they couldn't build them fast enough.

[Macross_Fanboy]

With a few mods to the head of a 1/144 VF-19Kai you can make a VF-19P.  Hmm...

Not just the head, you also need to modify the lower legs to add the two micro-missile ports and of course add the speakers on the shoulders.

Graham

The VF-19Kai already has micromissile launchers in the legs. And it has speakers in the shoulders, but they're not exposed.

[Graham]

With a few mods to the head of a 1/144 VF-19Kai you can make a VF-19P.  Hmm...

Not just the head, you also need to modify the lower legs to add the two micro-missile ports and of course add the speakers on the shoulders.

Graham

The VF-19Kai already has micromissile launchers in the legs. And it has speakers in the shoulders, but they're not exposed.

The VF-19P fires it's micro-missiles out of two hexagonal openings (ports) located on the outside of each lower leg. The VF-19P does not have the same opening weapons bay doors in the lower leg that the VF-19kai, VF-19F/S, VF-19A and YF-19 have.

And yes, I know the VF-19Kai has speakers in the shoulders. However, the point I am making is the "Lawrence" Speaker system on the VF-19P is located on top of the shoulders nacelles on the VF-19P, it is not internal.

Graham

[Boxer]

What's the use for the speaker system? Defense against the varuta (in space!?) Or maybe it's just an amplified speaker system to allow the pilot to yell at criminals at a longer distance?

Edited August 20, 2004 by Boxer

[Renato]

With a few mods to the head of a 1/144 VF-19Kai you can make a VF-19P.  Hmm...

Not just the head, you also need to modify the lower legs to add the two micro-missile ports and of course add the speakers on the shoulders.

Graham

The VF-19Kai already has micromissile launchers in the legs. And it has speakers in the shoulders, but they're not exposed.

The VF-19P fires it's micro-missiles out of two hexagonal openings (ports) located on the outside of each lower leg. The VF-19P does not have the same opening weapons bay doors in the lower leg that the VF-19kai, VF-19F/S, VF-19A and YF-19 have.

And yes, I know the VF-19Kai has speakers in the shoulders. However, the point I am making is the "Lawrence" Speaker system on the VF-19P is located on top of the shoulders nacelles on the VF-19P, it is not internal.

Graham

Don't forget also that there are fins on each leg, also, which are not on the Kai.

[Renato]

What's the use for the speaker system? Defense against the varuta (in space!?) Or maybe it's just an amplified speaker system to allow the pilot to yell at criminals at a longer distance?

I dunno, they shouldn't work in space.

And by the way, this has nothing to do with the Varauta. Those speakers were added by Lawrence to test his theory. They're not part of the P varient per se.

Better watch the show.

[Boxer]

That's kinda hard when it's not commercially available

[Renato]

Quick search just turned up these: -

VF-19P Battroid & Fighter: Scroll down to below the YF-19. These VF-19P look like conversions of the Bandai 1/144 scale VF-19 Kai plastic model kit.

Same kits I think but from a different page. See here, here & here.

Graham

I bought another VF-19kai 1/144 kit just to make this varient, but I never got round to it.

I'll do one eventually. Also, I'd like to comment on the colouring in those pictures. I don't remember any yellow on the 19P. Plus, the pink trim should be red. Lastly, the Zora patrol symbol is missing.

Also, notice in the page you posted (http://www.geocities.jp/kanseihinmiyako/macross-04.htm) how only the two battroid pics on the right seem to be of the 1/144, while the two on the left are based off another kit. Wonder what it is..?

[Graham]

What's the use for the speaker system? Defense against the varuta (in space!?) Or maybe it's just an amplified speaker system to allow the pilot to yell at criminals at a longer distance?

I dunno, they shouldn't work in space.

And by the way, this has nothing to do with the Varauta. Those speakers were added by Lawrence to test his theory. They're not part of the P varient per se.

Better watch the show.

It's been several years since I last watched Dynamite 7, but wasn't Lawrence also a fan of Fire Bomber? And IIRC Lawrence's theory was that Basara's music could be used to try to communicate with the Galactic Whales?

I think the speakers Lawrence constructed for the VF-19P and VF-5000G & VF-5000T-G (2-seater) were not conventional speakers, neither were they a sound energy system, but utilised some method of transmitting music in a way that the whales could recieve it.

And Renato is correct, the speakers were not originally part of the VF-19P or VF-5000.

Graham

[Graham]

Don't forget also that there are fins on each leg, also, which are not on the Kai.

I'm guessing the addition of the fins on the lower leg of the VF-19P is the reason for the change to launching the micro-missile through the hexagonal ports.

If the VF-19P used the hinged weapons bay door of the VF-19Kai/F/S, then at least some of the missiles would hit the leg fins as they fired.

It's previously been suggested that the change of missile launch system was a cost issue, but I don't think so now.

Graham

[Graham]

That's kinda hard when it's not commercially available

It should still be pretty easy to buy on bootleg DVD.

Graham

[Graham]

I'll do one eventually.  Also, I'd like to comment on the colouring in those pictures.  I don't remember any yellow on the 19P.  Plus, the pink trim should be red.  Lastly, the Zora patrol symbol is missing.

When first shown in fighter mode in the Zolan Patrol hanger near the end of episode # 3 (IIRC), the VF-19P is white with red trim.

However, once in space in episode # 4, there are some shots where the red trim appears pink (see attached picture). Maybe the paint heated and faded during the VF-19P's launch and flight up into space

Graham

[azrael]

If the VF-19P used the hinged weapons bay door of the VF-19Kai/F/S, then at least some of the missiles would hit the leg fins as they fired.

It's previously been suggested that the change of missile launch system was a cost issue, but I don't think so now.

The VF-19A also used hinged weapon bay doors and it had fins. However, since the bay doors swing out farther, they would not hit. Just so you don't forget the VF-19A.

It could be a cost issue. The VF-19A/F/S (and the Kai if you must) were designed to carry mission-variable ordanance. The missile launcher system is the same for the F/S/Kai versions (the A uses a different system to account for the different leg/engine block design but the purpose is the same). The VF-19P, being more of a law enforcement-type, does not need such a weapons package. In fact, since Zola's patrol/planetary police, rarely use live ammo, so the need for a variable weapons package is unnecessary. A standard micro-missile launcher system is probably more than enough for law-enforcement. If the VF-19P doesn't need military-grade systems, then Shinsei Industries can cut their costs and sell a downgraded VF-19.

I think the speakers Lawrence constructed for the VF-19P and VF-5000G & VF-5000T-G (2-seater) were not conventional speakers, neither were they a sound energy sytem, but utilised some method of transmitting music in a way that the whales could recieve it.

Yeah, that sounds about right.

[Tomato]

FYI Azrael I was being sarcastic.

Obvioulsy the Phyos is a Zentreadi designed variable fighter based on the existing VF-11 prototype. If the Zentreadi can reverse-engineer a VF-11's transformation capabilities to make a terrifying fighter craft, what's stopping them from reverse-engieering a VF-19P and making something dangerous to even -19s and -22s?

Just to tell you, the Phyos matched up quite well against VF-19's and 22's. I think the Compendium stated that it could match or even surpass the capabilities of the 19 and 22.

[Boxer]

Match and surpass, not dominate and destroy.

If someone knew the complete capabilities of a VF-19 fighter, then would they design a fighter even better than this? Say for example a nation were to know the complete specifications of an F-22 fighter, one of the newest and state-of-the-art fighters in our arsenal today (With passive stealth and whatnot). This supposed nation with that knowledge would do it's best to exploit it I'd think.

So if this is a rouge batch of Zentreadi what if they have their hands on a factory sattelite or say this is the same group that made the Pheyos. (You might be thinking 'but they got killed off!' well there wasn't anything stopping them from passing on knowledge) anyway, if they designed a mobile nightmare fighter that cased havock against a VF-19 derived from a mere VF-11 imagine what they could do with the technology they gained from a VF-19. If the 11 was state of the art when it was stolen and threatens VFs almost twenty years later in VF design.

That being said, what can an enemy Valkyrie designed off the VF-19 do to threaten future Valkyries twenty years down the road? It would mean such a new Enemy Variable machine would most certainly rip apart VF-11s, Demolish VF-19 sqaudrons, and be on-par or surprass the Valkyrie design preceeding the -19.

And I assume in VFX-2 you fight the Eva with a prototype or early VF-19.

So if such an enemy variable craft was designed (or based of of) the Eva it would cut down on design time tremendously. Or even if it was designed from the ground up as a new fighter it would still be able to destroy the widespread VF-19s (Whcih they were designed to destroy) and back-burner VF-11s. Thus the only way to stop these new monsters based off the VF-19 data would be to deploy the sparse next-gen fighter clearly superior to the VF-19 to 'Match' the Eva2.

This would only be made worse if the Eva designers (The Anti-UN or defectors?) somehow managed to alter or fix a factory sattelite production plant to manufacture these monsters.

[Keith]

Wait a minute. Where in VFX-2 did a VF-19 fight an Eva?

[Boxer]

I assumed it was VF-X2. I don't know which game it was specifically. But I do know it was one of the games, where apparently you fly a VF-19 against one. It doesn't matter, as it seems anything the Zentreadi can come up with in terms of variable devices outclasses anything the spacy has by at least twenty years.

So since the VF-19 is on the market, you can probably expect something twenty years more advanced then that to appear in Zentreadi hands. It'll probably eat your new VF-19 squadrons alive, since it's likely a renegade or Anti-UN agent probably bought one and shipped it back to wherever it is they made the Eva.

Edited August 21, 2004 by Boxer

[Morpheus]

Wait a minute. Where in VFX-2 did a VF-19 fight an Eva?

There are three encounters with the EVA (the Pheyos valkyrie) flown by the the ace `All kill wizard`. The first encounter is during operation Wizard of Oz, the second one in the town when u could use the VB-6 and the last one in space after killing the nasty missile-destroyer where u actually beat him to space dust.

Its depend on which VF that u are flying in the mission, sometimes its the VF-19A, but I kinda like it when I smashed the EVA with the VB-6

[hellohikaru]

The bloody pheyos pilot in VFX-2 is called Timothy Dalton!

[halfan]

I think it's more fun to finish the Pheyos off with the armored VF-11. With a couple of nukes, grenades, a chain gun, and a mess of micro missles it's almost as if he's pissing into the solar wind

[Keith]

Since when if the Pheyos called EVA (which sounds a lot more like the mecha in evangelion).

And I highly doubt you'll find anything 20 years more advanced in Zentradi hands, Rogue or otherwise.

[Boxer]

http://www.anime.net/macross/mecha/zentrad...vice/index.html

...During these incidents, former Zentradi soldiers (which had earlier deserted the 63254109th Zentradi Outer Space Army) captured a VF-X-11 equipped with a fold booster. Thereafter, UN pilots began reporting sightings of a previously unknown variable combat device. This device, which they codenamed "Enemy Valkyrie" or "EVA" (pronounced "i-va"), shocked the United Nations Forces with its speed, power, and transformability.....It incorporated the UN Forces' variable fighter technology with the Zentradi Army's power suit technology, and its capabilities appear to approach, if not exceed, those of the UN's VF-19 and VF-22

2030: VF-X-11 Stolen by Rouge Zentreadi

2039: Unveiling of the YF-19

2041: YF-19 is chosen as the winning design for project Super Nova

2047: Setting: VF-X, Also the appearance of the VF-19P (Dynamite 7)

2050: Setting: VF-X2

Twenty years between when the VF-X-11 was stolen and VF-X2. Since the Eva appears in VF-X (checked design works), it's actually seventeen. According to the entry in the compendium about the Enemy Variable device (Eva), it doesn't say how long it took for the Eva to appear after the VF-X-11 was stolen. But that is at least seventeen years after it was stolen.

Assuming a VF-19P was purchased by a renegade Zentreadi group and reverse-engineered to make a new fighter, this would mean the Eva2 (Or whatever) would be significant enough to threaten craft at least seventeen years in advance- that's into 2064. That's assuming it even took that long for the origional Eva craft to be developed, it might be less.

Maybe not twenty, but close.

Edited August 22, 2004 by Boxer

[Keith]

You're assuming the level of advancement for the Pheyos wasn't directly relative to the level of advancement in U.N. technolgoy (i.e. they were continuing to steal design secrets). Considering the Pheyos didn't appear until nearly 20 years later shows either how slow Rogue backwards engineering is, or that they were continually revising it to match newer prototypes.

[azrael]

That's quite a bit of assumptions there. You did forget something which you even quoted. The Enemy Valkyrie (EVA) incorporates power suit technology. It did wonders to the YF-21/VF-22 and they only used one system. In fact, a lot of things could possibly be explained about why it's capabilities are better than the VF-19/VF-22. Considering in most instances where we've seen the Pheyos, it's been blown out of the sky, I doubt the UN has had an oppurtunity to even figure out how much Zentradi technology went into that thing.

[Boxer]

Your basing your assumption on the fact that VF-X is the first time the UN Spacy encounters the Eva. How do we know it didn't appear much sooner then that? There needed to be time for the UN Spacy to confirm the fact that the Eva does exist as a threat (I assume implying more than one unit in multiple locations) and not simply a 'phantom craft'. The compendium doesn't specify when the Pheyos was first spotted, but I assume that it was much sooner than VF-X.

Even so, for a craft devised from a VF-X-11 to challenge a UN Spacy top-of-the-line VF-19 is impressive even for Zentreadi and rebel engineers. Imagine if they were to make a better Pheyos like the VF-11 can be seen as a better VF-1.