One Wild Explosion Maker

[Knight26]

This redesign caught me by surprise. Originally it was intended to be purely cosmetic in nature, to change a few faults in the design, replace the turrets, fix the CG, etc... Instead it turned into full tear down and rebuild. I reused most of the parts, just chopped them up, resized them, repositioned etc... The redesign was actually mitigated by changes to the size of the torpedoes it carries, making them smaller then they were before. That was done because the the enemy torpedoes have become so small, so I decided that the more advanced race really needs to have the smaller more advanced weapons. Anyway this size change allowed me to toy with the idea of adding more torpedoes giving it an equal number to the enemies vampire bomber, 12 plus any extra in bomb bay. I think the bomber that has resulted is hundreds of times better then the original. The design is almost done, just needs a few tweaks like the thrusters and other details. Anyway onto the pictures, first off the original version:

[Knight26]

Now onto the new design, as usual any comments or critiques are welcome. Ladies and gentlemen without further ado I present the newly redesigned ASF Model 524 Feral-F.1 Bomber. I'll do the five subvarients later.

[Knight26]

Landed configuration:

[Knight26]

Fore View:

[Knight26]

And of course the registry view: I'm having a little bit of problems with the textures but that be resolved quickly, plus I need to add control surfaces to the wings, sensors, anntennae, etc... you get the picture. Well what do you guys say?

[Knight26]

Oh and the registry of the landed configuration. Those four lights on the back are the emergency grappler beam projectors and have an airlock between them. This is to allow for emergency SAR (Search And Rescue).

[Lynx7725]

Working on purely visual impressions (and none of your background/ fluff), the older version has a more "bomber" look (reminding me of a TIE Bomber actually), whereas the new design has a more "fighter-bomber"/ "strike" craft look.

Which of course is fine if that is the look you intended.

[Knight26]

Well it is intended as a long range heavy bomber, probably most akin to a B-1B. I still like the old design, but its biggest failing was the high CG. I try to keep the designs somewhat realistic design and with the low slung engines and high CG would cause it nothing but problems. I was contemplating another engine on top to compensate for the high CG, but decided against that.

Edited August 16, 2004 by Knight26

[Drad]

And what's this for.. a game?

[Lynx7725]

Uhm, we ARE talking about sci-fi here right? Those engines on the original looks massive enough to lower the CG (Centre of Gravity) to somewhere near the centerline.

Basically, my opinion is that you can pretty much put in any explanation to justify a design (anything from magical technology to simply heavier engines), so it's really a matter of making it look good.

Personally? I think the old one have a TIE bomber/ Battlestar Galatica look, which may be reusable as a ship-of-line.... might be worth exploring there.

As for the new design, I think it looks good. 'Cept maybe the flappy wings, which may or may not stay depending on your mood.. but I think at the very minimum needs more work.

Oh yeah, the other thing is maybe the struts connecting the engines to the body should be a single solid joint rather than two planes.. but that's a personal preference.

[Knight26]

I try and stay away from the typical sci-fi magic explinations, if you look at the incredible cross sections for AOTC Curtis Saxton does his best to try and explain why the engines on Padmes mini-cruiser and jedi starfighter were so low. Basically he uses the extremely dense and massive component in the belly explination. The engines are massive enough to lower the CG, but even that does not lower the CG enough, so it would have pitch up issues. Really the only fix would be to lower the central hull and or add another engine to the top. I don't see the BSG look you mention, except that is has the same general layout as the BSG itself. One possible redesign would be to take that BSG look all the way, putting the engines in the main section with smaller sidemounted weapons pods. As for the tie-bomber influence I really do not see that. The wings don't flap, they fold up for landing, I will add structure to the point where it mounts to the fuselage. Though the wings may or may not stay, at this point the design is still pretty fluid. Those "struts" joining the main fuselage to the weapons/engine nacelles also act as airfoils, this is a tranatmospheric bomber so has some aerodynamics built in, but atm flight is mostly dependant on anti-grav and engine thrust.

And Drad, like all my designs, these are for the books I am writing, I design most if not all the ships and vehicles in the books. Maybe someday I will try to port them into a game to fly them, that would be fun.

[Lynx7725]

The BSG look is exactly in the relative positioning of the engines; few other designs uses that vertically asymmetrical design and it's fairly iconic.

As for the TIE bomber, it's actually a mistake on my part, because I thought there was only one engine because the other was hidden by the hull in the initial shot.

As for the struts, because you went to the effort to add in the wings, I suspected a transatmospheric intent, but needed confirmation.. I feel the wings and struts detract from the looks of the craft, but that's just me.

Then again, if you add solid struts, it may resemble Y-wings a little too much..

As for the point about not using Sci-Fi magic, I agree to a certain extent, but you have to bear in mind your target audience for the book.. I'll definitely appreciate the attention to technical details, but I certainly don't want to bog down into a technical discussion of the merits of high-mounted and low-mounted engines on the impact on moments around the centre of gravity.

I do enough reading at work; I read at my leisure to be entertained.

By all means I think you should try to go for an importable version to try out your designs.. a lot of your designs are transatmospheric, so at the very least it would be entertaining to try out your design in the air.

[Wabbit]

Nice designs Knight26, keep up the good work.

Btw, were you inspired by Wing Commander 2? The purposes are similar to the slow but heavy turreted and übercool Broadsword and the more sleaker Crossbow bomber. Cool!

I really miss such games and if there were ships like these for a game again, it will be the good ol' days again.

[Nightbat]

Somehow it reminds me a little of the A-10 Warthog

(Must be those Big*** guns under the nose )

[Knight26]

Having a night to think about without net access, soon will have DSL, I realize that the Feral is more akin to a B-25 then a B-1B and is more of a fighter bomber, but still leans towards the heavy bomber more. THose big guns under the nose are mass drivers intended mostly for anti-capital ship work, pound away at their shields, tear up their hull, etc... once you run out of torpedoes. They really would not be that great for use against fighters though because the Feral is not that manueverable, it is still a bomber after all. For defense against fighters it does have those four turrets and up to 60 missiles. Oops, I still need to put on the missle launchers, but that's a quick fix. The ships is also carrier based so that limits its overall size, I suppose I could come up with a longer range planet based heavy bomber, sort of an even bigger brother. Hmm, maybe I can use the old Feral-F model as a starting point for that, double its size, cover it with turrets have it carry a massive number of torpedoes, hmm. Man I have travel starting tomorrow guess I know what I will be doing in my hotel room. BUt what to call it, can't call it the Feral anymore, and this company also produced the Ferine Dropship, what to call the strategic bomber.

Oh and Wabbit I am an old wingnut from back in the day too, so I suppose some of the design was influenced a bit by the old wing commander series.

And Nightbat, the A-10 is my all time favorite aircraft, best tank killer ever designed or built, those big guns are a nod to her glory. Also, if you look closely, have to post a close up, the guns design is a cross between the VF-17 gun pod and the Mac-7 main cannon.

Edited August 16, 2004 by Knight26

[Wabbit]

Oh and Wabbit I am an old wingnut from back in the day too, so I suppose some of the design was influenced a bit by the old wing commander series.

Cool! Btw: you tear up shields and hull with the quad mass-driver first, then you fire your heavy torpedoes! Otherwise it is a waste of torpedoes slamming into the shields that absorbes the damage. Those good ol' days...

[Knight26]

Oh and Wabbit I am an old wingnut from back in the day too, so I suppose some of the design was influenced a bit by the old wing commander series.

Cool! Btw: you tear up shields and hull with the quad mass-driver first, then you fire your heavy torpedoes! Otherwise it is a waste of torpedoes slamming into the shields that absorbes the damage. Those good ol' days...

Funny that you say that, those guns under the chin are three four-barrelled heavy mass drivers, lol.

[Nightbat]

The old design has alot of potential

extend the engine struts, increase the engines (/payload) size, keep the cockpit

relatively small, and you know you've got a mailman ready to drop heavy and

large quantities of parcels

[Knight26]

The old design has alot of potential

extend the engine struts, increase the engines (/payload) size, keep the cockpit

relatively small, and you know you've got a mailman ready to drop heavy and

large quantities of parcels

I was actually thinking of doing something along those lines with it. YOur mailman comment reminds that every year I make a christmas card with this bomber in holiday colors, say it is santa's new sleigh, lol. Guess this year he gets an even bigger sleigh.

[Nightbat]

Made a little Photosoup, though Proportions are WAY off and the engingstruts are

still too small, engines should be more slender and the cockpit may needs some

redesign but....

[Knight26]

Interesting, a bit along the lines I was thinking of for a strategic bomber based on the old design. Of course I would do away with the internal bomb bay in the central hull and just pack the beast full of torpedoes, cover it with launchers.

[Nightbat]

Strategic bomber was also what I thought when I first saw your old design, though

it missed the "bulk" and size associated with the term

loading it with just torpedoes probably would decrease it's overall payload

then again, I don't really know your designs and the way they are used in combat

(Being in space, able to strafe a large ship from all sides does allow the use of

upward targeted torpedoes)

if your design as a bomber is equal to that of a ww2 Torpedoboat it would justify the

launchers, it al depends on how you define the term "Strategic Bomber"

Your new design has much more "speed" to it but, as you mentioned: part of it's

role

is to take out capital ships, so it's obviously designed to be a more manouvreable

craft

[Knight26]

Yeah the Feral redesign was made mostly around capitilizing on the anti-capital role but still retaining an internal bomb bay so it can make standard bombing runs. If the new design based on the feral comes into existance it will be a dedicated planet bomber, carrying numerous space to ground weapons, so again we're talking something based off a torpedo, just a lot of them. THis craft would probably not see much use in the books though as I have stated in them that the UCSB (not the college) is not normally in favor of planetary bombardment, especially of homeworlds. However, it would make an effective first strike weapon, something to open the battle up with, send in a wing of the strategic bombers, have them soften up the targets before the large capital ships move in.

[KingNor]

i have a criteque for it. give it some "personality" from every direction, you want this thing to have a distinct profile when compaired to other sci fi machinery.

the top view looks ok but the side view is BOREING. work on it's profile, look at other bombers, (like the b1b) or fighter bombers like the f-14.

bring the botom wing foreward, and push the top wing back. lift the nose and cock pit up and give it a tad of a "lifting body" look ( i know it's outerspace, but it LOOKS cool)

i'll try to put some sketches or something up tonight.

honestly, while not as "cool" looking, you're original design was more memorable.

[Knight26]

i have a criteque for it. give it some "personality" from every direction, you want this thing to have a distinct profile when compaired to other sci fi machinery.

the top view looks ok but the side view is BOREING. work on it's profile, look at other bombers, (like the b1b) or fighter bombers like the f-14.

My designs sometimes have that problem with their profiles, not sure why, something I need to work on.

bring the botom wing foreward, and push the top wing back.

Actually the bottom wing cannot move any further forward because then it would imping on the retro thruster, but moving the upper wing back has always been a consideration, but then the wings could only fold to straight up.

lift the nose and cock pit up and give it a tad of a "lifting body" look ( i know it's outerspace, but it LOOKS cool)

As for humping the forward fuselage, that may be a possibility, but would require moving the turrets, which is no big deal. Would like to see what you are imagining here.

[EXO]

Nice designs Sean. Haven't had time to red up on it. Just been looking at the pics. More later!!!

[Nightbat]

If the new design based on the feral comes into existance it will be a dedicated planet bomber, carrying numerous space to ground weapons

then in this case: Size Does matter

[KingNor]

Would like to see what you are imagining here.

totally slipped my mind bro, i'm in the middle of finals for one of the most stressful trimesters i've ever taken.

i'll get them posted tonight or tomorrow maybe. it only takes a second, i just have to remember to do it.

[Knight26]

don't stress it, I have an idea of what you mean and may work on it tonight if I have time, going on travel tomorrow. Will at the least upload it to my work laptop so I can work on it on ship.

[Knight26]

I did this quick reassemble/render, with the raised pit. Moved the pit foward 5 ft and up 2.5 ft and then chamfered back the hump. I think I may have over done it a little, not it seems too high to me. Tell me what you think, just put in the side view for now. If I go with this, the nose will need some work, doesn't look so good to me at this point.

[EXO]

wow, the redisign is a vast improvement. I thought they were 2 diff ships before I read it.

[KingNor]

just that little bit makes a big improvement, i like it alot better now.

i'll get some sketches up eventually.

[Knight26]

Well I;m back and what a boring trip it was. But it gave me plenty of time to work on the design when the Yardbirds weren't looking over my shoulders or we weren't conducting DTEs. Anyway I changed the hump height on the central hull of the Feral, just a 1ft hike up, I didn't like it any higher. I also as suggest staggered the wings position and then spent an excruciating amount of time panel lining the beast. Now I just have to create a custom texture for it, but I liked the way it turned out. Thanks of the suggestsions guys, any more? First off the 4-view.

[Knight26]

Registry in flight configuration, bomb bay closed.

[Knight26]

Landed configuration registry picture, with bomb bay open: