The AVP MegaThread

[CoryHolmes]

Damn, I can't believe the amount of discussion this film has.

Then it must've done SOMETHING right

[bsu legato]

Unfortunately, it was #1 at the box office and may spawn another sequel.

Yep, I called the box office pretty good in the first AVP thread, tho I rounded it off to an even $40. But the real measure of its success will be how it hold up next weekend. I read that AVP dropped off 25% by saturday night, so I bet most of that was Friday's take. Now that the word is out....? I think even Van Helsing was ultimately considered a dud, in spite of big opening weekend earnings.

[Sundown]

That article pretty much summed up my earlier point: AvP was made for (casual) fans of the game. Let's hope the (probable) sequal is a whole lot better & more intense.

I call BS on the article. If the movie was made to appeal to fans of the original Jaguar game or even arcade game, fans of said game would be able to get into an R-rated movie by now.

It's not a cop out. It's a calculated grab at teen and pre-teen kids who have heard of the concept and might like the premise, knowing that grown-up Alien and Predator fans would come along for the short and underwhemling ride. It's not a movie made for them, however.

It's a wonder that Paul Anderson still has a job... but it's probably because his Brit Accent somehow gives him more credibility while making his claims and pitches and somehow gets him taken more seriously than he deserves. And because for some weird reason, his movies make money. The latter really needs to stop, if we're to rid his scourage from modern cinema. Unfortunately, I'm not sure that I'll have the will-power to deny Mila Jovanovich in Resident Evil 2.

I could watch her all day, whether it be spouting lousy dialogue... killing zombies... dressed... undressed... taking a bath... taking a dump... vaccuuming... plucking her eyebrows... flossing her teeth. Whichever way.

-Al

[doh-dough]

c'mon guys don't say its based on "the game" there are tons of AvP games, specify wich one. from what i can tell it's not based on any of the games.

these are the ones i know of:

AvP nes/snes (not sure wich)

AvP PC

AvP II PC

AvP arcade

and they were all pretty diffrent.

wasn't there an avp game for the atari jaguar?

[Mr March]

Just saw it and felt like writing a review. I haven't done one in a while and I needed to make my evening worthwhile

Alien vs. Predator (2004)

Genre: Live Action Film – Sci-Fi/Horror

Alien vs. Predator director Paul W.S. Anderson may lead many to believe the idea of combining these two movie monsters into a film was his idea some 10 years ago. Given the criticism many a fan had of Anderson’s attachment to this film, it was expected that despite what he lead the masses to beleive in pre-release interviews, Anderson had a better concept than anyone. Unfortunately, this film neither pleases fans hoping for some fun sci-fi entertainment nor does it do justice to the much better comic books which spawned the idea much earlier than a decade ago.

The film Alien vs. Predator (or AVP as the film’s marketting posse love to spray on posters and teaser trailers) combines two alien speices from two of the more successful modern monster movie franchises into a single film (from Ridley Scott’s “Alien” in 1979 and John McTiernan’s “Predator” in 1987). The two species meet on Earth in the Antartic, with contact being initiated by a group of human explorers who have discovered a pyramid beneath the ice. The pyramid is actually a hunting ground of sorts, used by the Predators to hunt the Aliens as their species’ right-of-passage. The humans, being caught in the middle of this fight between the two, are unprepared and struggle to survive the clash of these interstellar creatures.

The fruition of the concept to showcase these two alien monsters can no doubt be credited to the financial success of the 2003 horror bout “Freddy vs. Jason”. The idea for AVP however first saw public release via a company called Dark Horse, who published an Aliens vs. Predator comic book series in 1989. The success of the series spawned more comics and eventually a market for merchandise including models, statues, computer/console/arcade games, and novels. What is felt by any fan of the franchise watching AVP can only be both disappoinment and relief that the film has very little to do with the science fiction legacy off-screen. Instead, director Paul W.S. Anderson chose to tell his own tale of how these two species meet and the results are anything but exciting. The errors in the plot are so glaring that one cannot help but be distracted, especially since the dull action can’t occupy the audience. The pacing is jumbled by a mere token of character development in the opening only to be carelessly thrown away without notice in the latter half. The Predators and Aliens have lost any presence of terror in the film because the story depicts most Predators as easily dispatched amateurs while the Aliens are slimey eye-candy just as easily boned by the few, smarter Predators.

The worst tragedy by far can only be AVP’s total failure as either a fun, summer sci-fi flick or a cult favorite. Despite the film’s focus on two superstars of the monster movie genre, there is surprisingly little actual conflict between the two. What alien action there is for the audience amounts to recycled battles from better films and pro-wrestling style brawls. The special effects offer little innovation over the tried-and-true concepts that made Alien and Predator successful genre films nor is there any satisfaction to be found in the dry human characters. The entire film is just going through the motions of what we all expect from a tired hollywood film and the finale is as stale as the morose musical score.

Most fans of the off-screen franchise or aficionados of the films will be quick to reference the entertaining comics or the better movies as examples of the two alien spieces done right. While the comic book stories or computer game plots may have fared much better than the Anderson/O’Bannon script for AVP, no pre-existing story could freshen this film from poor execution. Whether one criticizes the special effects, plot, or characters, it is obvious to everyone except the most diehard fan that AVP doesn’t deliver anything worth watching.

Rating: 3 out of 10. A good idea for a fun sci-fi film is wasted by a bland script, boring special effects, and a forgettable story.

Edited August 17, 2004 by Mr March

[KingNor]

Unfortunately, I'm not sure that I'll have the will-power to deny Mila Jovanovich in Resident Evil 2.

i can't beleive you'd go to another resident evil movie just to see a clothed woman run around shooting stuff. have some self respect.

I'm not going to put money into the hands of the guys who made this avp jibberish. i'll never pay for another MK movie, or RE. this director sucks. everything i've ever seen of his totally craps on what i like about movies.

this guys gotta learn that you can just grab a midi player, crank out some cheap rock music, throw some preds and aliens at power ranger level actors and expect me to buy a ticket. NO. NO MORE!

i want the next movie i see in the theater to be .. gasp... good.

hollywood... stop making movies that are "based" on something else. i want to see "written by" not "adapted by" or "inspired by"... grrrrr!

[Seven]

I hate to say I told you so, but I told you so.

There were some people that were trying to be fair with the movie when others were bashing it after seeing the trailer, but man, not all of that criticism was just fanboy whininess. It's called foresight! Like smelling that big steaming pile of crap before stepping in it and that's not a bad thing, now is it?

Oh yeah, and T3 still sucks.

[Roy Focker]

I'm not sure that I'll have the will-power to deny Mila Jovanovich in Resident Evil 2.

I could watch her all day, whether it be spouting lousy dialogue... killing zombies... dressed... undressed... taking a bath... taking a dump... vaccuuming... plucking her eyebrows... flossing her teeth. Whichever way.

I can think of at least one thing on that list that I wouldn't want to watch her do.

Big deal the film made number 1. Should making number one count during a slow movie period?

[KingNor]

you know, the number one thing is soooo misleading. that can be masaged so many ways

when it's best in the country, they say "number one movie in america"

if its number one for any other reason like best opening on a wednesday, or best opening for a scifi movie, or best opening this year, they still say "movie is number one"

it shoudln't matter, if the movie is crap, its crap, even if everyone went to see it.

take pearl harbor for example, that should have gotten an emmy for it's trailer. the movie was crap tho, ALL my friends and i went to see it because the trailer was so good. we didn't buy the DVD

[Jemstone]

Rating: 3 out of 10. A good idea for a fun sci-fi film is wasted by a bland script, boring special effects, and a forgettable story.

There was a story?!

[Sundown]

i can't beleive you'd go to another resident evil movie just to see a clothed woman run around shooting stuff. have some self respect.

Err. Clothed, and otherwise.

She's rumored to be doing a nude scene in Resident Evil, but that ain't why I'll see (or at least rent) it. Honest. Actually, I'm not a big fan of my favorite actresses going buff... screwy as that makes me.

Roy, there are folks who already pay much more than 10 bucks to see even a few minutes of that sort of thing.

-Al

[KingNor]

Roy, there are folks who already pay much more than 10 bucks to see even a few minutes of that sort of thing.

g.. god.. present company excluded i hope.

[Sundown]

g.. god.. present company excluded i hope.

Well, yeah. But from the sort of spam in my inbox, someone seems to think otherwise.

-Al

[Mr March]

Rating:  3 out of 10.  A good idea for a fun sci-fi film is wasted by a bland script, boring special effects, and a forgettable story.

There was a story?!

You see! So forgettable you can't even recall there was one

[bsu legato]

If you liked that, you're gonna love THIS.

Dark Horizons has an interview with the man himself, Paul "Warm Semen" Anderson. The guy actually has the gall to slag Predator 2, in spite of his own film being possibly the worst thing since AIDS.

[Dangard Ace]

If you liked that, you're gonna love THIS.

Dark Horizons has an interview with the man himself, Paul "Warm Semen" Anderson. The guy actually has the gall to slag Predator 2, in spite of his own film being possibly the worst thing since AIDS.

Well, gotta say, he's got great big hairy brass ones after reading that interview.

[Amped]

Dark Horizons has an interview with the man himself, Paul "Warm Semen" Anderson. The guy actually has the gall to slag Predator 2, in spite of his own film being possibly the worst thing since AIDS.

Truly... rabid fan-boys have the ability to say the dumbest sh*t.

Only in the realm of Geekdom would someone find it acceptable to equate a completely forgettable summer movie shclock with a devastating disease like AIDS.

'WAAAAAA... Paul WS Anderson raped my geek-behind. WAAAAAA... Now I feel like a warm dork-eclair!!! WAAAAA!!!'

I can't believe this film has generated this much discussion!!! I can hardly remember it & I only saw it last Saturday!!!

[areaseven]

I just got back from watching this movie and I have to say that despite a weak plot (or lack of plot) and a lot of loopholes, AVP was pretty enjoyable. A sequel is certain in the near future, but I hope that FOX doesn't make Alexa (Sanaa Lathan) a Ripley wanna-be.

In a nutshell: If you want a story, watch something else. If you want action, AVP is worth checking out.

[Max Jenius]

Only in the realm of Geekdom would someone find it acceptable to equate a completely forgettable summer movie shclock with a devastating disease like AIDS.

So what do you call a person takes a comment like that literally?

[Amped]

Damn you Jenius!!!!

[~Duo~Trenten]

A sequel is certain in the near future, but I hope that FOX doesn't make Alexa (Sanaa Lathan) a Ripley wanna-be.

They will turn her into Ripley but with the Predators instead of the aliens.

Alexa and a Predator going at it like dogs in heat, i can just see it in the near future for some reason

[bob joe mac]

yeah I just saw it today and it was exactlly what I was expecting from it... the gratuitus action film of the summer. I sat down expected Aliens and predators to kill each other... they did... lots of humans died... little plot... well I didn't expect one from my testosterone film of the summer... I mean personally I think it was better then say... King arthur... that had less of a plot... altough more likeable characters...

Sure I sat there the entire movie with some of my buddies and joked the entire thing but ya know thats why we went to see a cool action movie... and that was it.

BTW- one of my friends whispered to me when the Predator took of his mask at the end of the movie "time for a make out scene" like everyone around us burst out laughing

[bsu legato]

Only in the realm of Geekdom would someone find it acceptable to equate a completely forgettable summer movie shclock with a devastating disease like AIDS.

Oh come now, can't I indulge in a little bit of fanboy hyperbole too? The point was that, for such a hack filmaker as Anderson is, he has quite a pair to go on record shitting on Predator 2. I'll take Pred 2 over any of Paulie's works, anyday of the week. Sheesh, some folks get so sensitive 'round here.

[bsu legato]

Paul Anderson speaks! Again. I found this reposted on the chud.com boards.

Here it is, from the IMDB AvP Board

"Hi, I'm back from the screening and Q&A and while I was able to ask some of the questions you guys posed, I couldn't get them all in. Regardless, many of the people who were also there had similar questions.

First of all, this screening was made up of industry professionals and filmmakers. No actors, but David Fincher, (Director of Alien 3) was there, which was cool. Now the audience were trying to be respectful in the beginning but as the film unfolded, the audience ended up really trashing the film. It was astounding to see Anderson's colleagues and friends openly making fun of his film, with him in the room!

When the Predator took off his helmet in front of Lex after the explosions someone shouted "Gimme some sugar, baby." I mean, this movie was bad, but I didn't expect these people to be so blatant about it.

When Anderson and the effects guys approached the tables, they were smirking with each other. The first subject that came up, no thanks to me, was the length and PG-13 rating.

So here it is, from the horses mouth.

About the studio's cutting of the film, which he had no control over, he said, and I quote, "All of the best scenes were cut." Anderson was obviously very annoyed at the way the film was released. However, this was not purely because of the PG-13 limitation, which incidentally, the studio enforced THREE WEEKS before the release date! It was always going to be R until then. Part of the reason for the cutting was that some of the effects were not ready by the time the release date came around. The effects team had very little time to do anything.

As far as the content that was cut, apparently we see all those who die, die on screen, but he also said that there is a sub-plot that we will have to wait for on DVD. Yes there will be an R-rated Director's cut DVD although they don't know the release date yet.

Without saying anything that could dig his own grave, Anderson tactfully pinned the fault of the poor quality of the film on the studio's cut. We all know that the script and performances was not quite up to par either, but then it was time for me to ask my first question.

"What specifically, makes you [Anderson] such a fan of the original 6 films?"

He went on to say that he thought they each had their own unique voice and were incredibly creative within a genre that often leads to purely formulaic films (ahem, mate, this is you!). He said that he was attempting to add his own unique voice to the series while paying hommage to the original source material. He also thought that the creatures, were the two greatest inventions in Science Fiction history. Someone then said, "Beyond lightsabers?" and he replied, "yes, even beyond lightsabers."

Some other effects questions were asked, which had some cool insights. The explosion sequence encompassed for half the budget, which was only 65mil in the first place (for a film like this, this is nothing), and all the shifting of the walls, yes ALL OF IT, was completely CGI. There were no moving live sets. Having watched it again, I have to say, I couldn't tell, and all my friends know that if there's some CG in a film, I'll see it. That impressed me. Also, they changed the appearance of the Queen slightly, adding a ridge to her crown and taking away, what they call, the "high heals" that she wore (the second reverse knee). Also, 80% of all the shots with an Alien in it was the hydraulic Alien they built.

Anyway, effects aside, I asked another question.

"I know that the AVP project has been surrounded by controversy since the first attempt in the early nineties. Why did you choose to not use any of the pre-existing stories, the original comic series, the Peter Briggs script, etc?"

He told me that he wanted to make the film his own. He also proclaimed that he'd had the idea for this film ever since seeing Predator 2. I thought that was probably ego-driven BS, but regardless, it's what he said. He also said that the Peter Briggs script is completely off-limits, shelved indefinately by Dark Horse and they won't let anyone tough it. Sounds to me like he tried, heh heh.

Later I asked some technical nerd questions. I wasn't the only one. I started by stating that I noticed some glaring continuity errors between this film and the pre-established occurences in the previous 6 films. Anderson stopped me before I could continue and said due to the "mangling" of the film, there was a lot left out. I asked, "Does that include the acceleration of the alien life cycle or was that just conveniant."

Whoops, I had hit a nerve. He shook his head. "No, no, the machine that the Predators built to house the Queen pumps her full of hormones that accelerate the birth of the creatures. If we'd seen the REAL film, we'd know that." Ouch.

The answer to why Aliens attacked the incubated predator was that the alien inside the Predator was not sanctified by the Aliens because it was essentially a different species due to the DNA reflex the Alien's possess. Okay, I guess I could go with that.

The Q&A wrapped up with talks about the digital intermediate and the difference between working with Super35 and Anamorphic.

I tried asking a last question but they ended it before I could. I pretty much hogged the Q&A as it was.

Afterwards I went and shook Anderson's hand. He remembered me from a mutual acquaintances birthday party. I told him I couldn;t wait for the Director's Cut and was really nice. I asked about a sequal and he said he'd thought about it but nothing concrete was in motion. They were waiting to see about the returns. I told him I had what he neede and I would send him my treatment through CAA. I assured him it was a direct sequal and he said, "Good." I then said, so they're letting you have a Director's cut, huh? He said, "yeah, it'll be great." Then I said, can I give you some advice from the youngest generation of filmmakers, namely, me." He said, "Sure, go for it." I said, "The facehuggers are fast, damn fast, get rid of the matrix shot when they jump out of the eggs for the first time." He said he'd take that into consideration. Then I started talking about the reviews. I talked about IMDB and how much of a "Lover Versus Haters" war had erupted. He seemed amused by that and then said, to my surprise, well, as a filmmaker, I'm satisfied with the film, but as a fan of the originals, this cut really pisses me off, so it makes sense I guess." he said he'd check it out (the IMDB boards) but I can't gaurantee that will happen. Just know that, if in a week or two someone comes on claiming to be Anderson, it might well be him.

All in all I was really happy about what he had to say. It was great to hear a filmmaker so honest about his work and he knows that he has a long way to go before he is any good as a filmmaker. Having talked to him before, I know that the films he is making now are films that, he feels, will only get him to a place where he can really excel.

Oh well, there it is, hope that shed some light on some stuff. Oh, and apparently, the book they wrote is based on the original R-rated cut, so that'll tell you what is missing."

[NERV]

paul anderson is so full of poo i bet he spits brown:

Question: What's the running time you're shooting for?

Paul: I don't know. The script is like 110 pages, I mean, it's not going to be ONCE UPON A TIME IN THE WEST, but it's not going to be 90 minutes either.

oh and how long is the movie paul? huh? oh thats right 87 MINUTES!!

[Amped]

Oh come now, can't I indulge in a little bit of fanboy hyperbole too? The point was that, for such a hack filmaker as Anderson is, he has quite a pair to go on record shitting on Predator 2. I'll take Pred 2 over any of Paulie's works, anyday of the week. Sheesh, some folks get so sensitive 'round here.

Sorry man, I too forget that text can't deliver the nuances of delivery very well!

I guess I'm just shocked that folks have had such polarized (& rather harsh) views of this film & that we've all yapped so much about it. It must truly be a slow time in geekdom...

Honestly, I felt it could've been far worse. Maybe I had set my expectations too low. Whatever. I just didn't think it was good enough... or bad enough.. to merit this much discussion. Go figure.

So anyhow sorry if it seemed if my hackles were raised, I must just have nothing better to do at the moment.

[bsu legato]

Sorry man, I too forget that text can't deliver the nuances of delivery very well!.

Eh, don't worry about it.

[Jemstone]

I can't believe this film has generated this much discussion!!! I can hardly remember it & I only saw it last Saturday!!!

Then that makes two of us.

[bsu legato]

I can't believe this film has generated this much discussion!!!  I can hardly remember it & I only saw it last Saturday!!! 

Then that makes two of us.

In this particular case I think it's justified. AVP deserves our derision, as does Paul Anderson and the stupid Fox executives who greenlit this abortion. Sadly, AVP is a lose/lose scenario.

If AVP goes on to gross $100 million, then Fox could easily decide that they didn't need somebody like Ridley Scott or James Cameron to make Alien 5. They could just give the job to this Paul WS Anderson fellow. See..he's got two middle initials. He must be good.

If AVP fails to recover its cost and advertising, then Fox could decide that audiences just aren't interested in these franchises anymore. The fact that we just didn't want to see AVP 'cause it was a piece of crap would never occur to them.

[CoryHolmes]

The fact that we just didn't want to see AVP 'cause it was a piece of crap would never occur to them.

I suppose the fact that some people (namely, myself and others) actually enjoyed AVP is totally lost on you?

Was it Titanic or LOTR? No. Was it entertaining? Damn straight it was.

[Jemstone]

Meh. The film sucks and I don't even want to comment on this Anderson guy but I think in time he will be forgotten. An Alien 5 or Alien 27 with it's own animated series wouldn't bother me at this point because;

THERE ARE ONLY 2 ALIEN FILMS.

Anything else is a evil figment of some the imagination.

EDIT: Cory, I can tell you the only real purpose the film served was as yet another example of CG and special effects for students and others int he field (like me). After that only those who could careless about the franchises involved really loved it for the mindless violence.

Edited August 20, 2004 by Jemstone

[JsARCLIGHT]

It can be stupid, it can be purile, it can be bears driving little cars around a ring... if the movie makes money then it is a success in the eyes of the studio and encouragement for more of the same to other studios. Yes the "diehards" and "fanboys" can bitch themselves into comas for all the studios care they are just out to make money, not entertain. Such is the brave new world of movies... unless the director who helms the project is willing to bankroll the thing himself (ala Spielburg with Dreamworkds or Lucas with LFL) or a studio is willing to part with large sums of cash on just the word of the director alone we will not be getting the "Aliens", "Terminator 2"'s and "Predator"s of the world made anymore to the fanboy's critical tastes as the people who truly care about the license, really deeply want to mold the property into something the fans will love will be sitting in the unemployment line while studios choose a trained chimp they can keep under budget and within their "scope" for what they want the picture to be. A Boardroom made AVP, not Anderson... he was just the right wetnurse for the job to cater the specific audience targeted marketing play that was this movie. Sure you may enjoy the empty headed cavorting of a drunk in the street but when other studios see people flocking to that they will produce more of the same and less of the other truly unique and risky projects. In the end it is all about risk of money and hollywood is more willing to bankroll a predictable shootin' and smart-mouthin' summer movie aimed at teens than it is to support a grim and dark ultra violent plot heavy behemoth.

[KingNor]

what i think could have made this movie cool, is if it had happend back in the 1600's or something.

when ever that muskette from pred 2 is from.

see the preds USED to use the humans as cattle to breed aliens right? but.. in the course of the story, the preds realize that the humans are more dangerous than the aliens, hence they start hunting humans (ie: pred 1 and pred 2)

it doesn't seem to make much sence that the preds came to earth to hunt humans in pred 1 and 2 only to later find out that the preds consider humans only good for makeing alien babies.

just my 2 cents.

i've been wanting to see a pred vs colonial america for a while :-)

[Max Jenius]

i've been wanting to see a pred vs colonial america for a while :-)

Or maybe during Vietnam, the US Civil War, or hell... even WWI/II...

[Stamen0083]

i've been wanting to see a pred vs colonial america for a while :-)

Or maybe during Vietnam, the US Civil War, or hell... even WWI/II...

Next time, on Star Trek: Enterprise...