just saw macross 2

[kanata67]

I just saw macross two on starz action channel on the digital cable we have out at our new House. As I have always been more into the toys [jetfire ] than plot subtleties I let most of the romanticism I hold for macross/r-word come from what I remember as a child. We all know DYRL had a plot, R-word had a story line... but what the heck is this? I remember "istar" from mac plus vol1&2 [all I saw as it was a rental at a gaming store]. Is macross II the complete story of mac plus??? I know I saw for the first time, much to my dismay, the first animated representations of a few valks I have come to love.

My question is thus... Is this really the only appearence of these cool valks? Did the 2ss and 19 appear nowhear else animated? Is the only good that came from this the toys? Are some of my coolest toys based on something seen for such a brief ammount of time on a show so lame....?

AND NO.... I AM NOT A NEWBY!!!!! Just some-one who saw this travisty for the first time... makes me question the wisdom of 30+ 1/55's in a closet is all

[goldenboy_forever]

Congrats on the new house . I know how you feel man kinda wished there was some more show time for the awsome valks in mascross 2.

From Rich

Ha HAHA you a NEWBY

Dam old fart veterian haha Just kidding bro

(dodge stabbing bayonet )

[Mechamaniac]

What I think is strange is that Macross II is not considered canon. When I watched it, IMHO nothing stranger happens in Mac II than happens in Mac 7 by a long shot!.

[Skippy438]

The 19 isn't even in MacII. It's only in Plus and Seven.

[Skull Leader]

Macross II has nothing to do with Macross Plus... Ishtar wasn't in Macross Plus.

It's just a side story written by people who weren't on the original team of creators. It's set 80 years after DYRL and all relations pretty much stop there.

You'll find Macross II far easier to deal with if you accept right away that MacII is not part of the official storyline and has nothing whatsoever to do with anything else Macross-related.

[Jester]

I think what he means is the image of Hibiki Kanzaki thats on the back of the Macross Plus video's. Which always made me wonder why it was there as well as Mac II has nothing to do with Mac Plus.

Different Universe

Different Timeline

Different Time Period (50 years or so)

Kanata, whilst you won't find any additional video's, CD's or DVD's with the Mac II Valkryies in them, you may find them in some of the Macross II comics that are around possibly still. The last one I saw was in a dingy comic store in Southampton about 8 years ago. (Right alongside a load of Robotech II: Sentinels comics as well)

Will the Mac II Valkyries ever appear again ?? No !!

Big West got the bitch slap from Kawamori-San and have left it well alone.

[Wabbit]

AND THEY MOLESTED THE SDF-1 COMPLETELY!!!

That is one of the biggest mistakes they have made.

[treatment]

I just saw macross two on starz action channel on the digital cable we have out at our new House. As I have always been more into the toys [jetfire ] than plot subtleties I let most of the romanticism I hold for macross/r-word come from what I remember as a child. We all know DYRL had a plot, R-word had a story line... but what the heck is this? I remember "istar" from mac plus vol1&2 [all I saw as it was a rental at a gaming store]. Is macross II the complete story of mac plus??? I know I saw for the first time, much to my dismay, the first animated representations of a few valks I have come to love.

My question is thus... Is this really the only appearence of these cool valks? Did the 2ss and 19 appear nowhear else animated? Is the only good that came from this the toys? Are some of my coolest toys based on something seen for such a brief ammount of time on a show so lame....?

AND NO.... I AM NOT A NEWBY!!!!! Just some-one who saw this travisty for the first time... makes me question the wisdom of 30+ 1/55's in a closet is all

The Mac-II songs/soundtracks are pretty good.

Wrt to the toys, I think only the VF-2SS was released by Bandai as a 1/100 HG(?) kit.

I have not seen a Metal-Siren toy.

Btw, the 19 was never in MacII.

fwiw, Mac-II is not as infuriating as 7. For starters, it doesn't have monsters-of-the-week stuff. Secondly, it ain't canon so anything goes.

And Ishtar's THE Macross-babe, canon or not.

All things considered, the only thing really infuriating about MacII is the english-version of Ishtar's Mou Ichido Love You song.

I'd warmed up to the dubs of MacII. Still weak, tho, but tolerable nowadays.

[valk1j]

I just saw macross two on starz action channel on the digital cable we have out at our new House. As I have always been more into the toys [jetfire ] than plot subtleties I let most of the romanticism I hold for macross/r-word come from what I remember as a child. We all know DYRL had a plot, R-word had a story line... but what the heck is this? I remember "istar" from mac plus vol1&2 [all I saw as it was a rental at a gaming store]. Is macross II the complete story of mac plus??? I know I saw for the first time, much to my dismay, the first animated representations of a few valks I have come to love.

My question is thus... Is this really the only appearence of these cool valks? Did the 2ss and 19 appear nowhear else animated? Is the only good that came from this the toys? Are some of my coolest toys based on something seen for such a brief ammount of time on a show so lame....?

AND NO.... I AM NOT A NEWBY!!!!! Just some-one who saw this travisty for the first time... makes me question the wisdom of 30+ 1/55's in a closet is all

Kanata67, I think you need to see Mac Plus again or see the whole thing. You seem to be mixing up Macross II - Lovers Again, with Macross Plus. Ishtar is only in Mac II, the 19 and 21/22 do not appear in Macross II. The VF-2SS only appears in Mac II. When you mention the cool toys from Mac II, I don't know what your talking about, unless your referring to Mac Plus and Mac 7 toys, as I don't think there were any toys from Mac II, only the previous mentioned Bandai model.

Macross II doesn't bother me too much now that I know it doesn't have anything to do with the rest of Macross. I feel that the animation goes down hill torward the end of mac II and during certain parts I got bored watching it. This is one anime that I won't be adding to my collection.

[Mechamaniac]

I still don't get how people are bothered by stuff in Mac II, but not Mac 7. IMHO, Mac 7 went WAAAAAY down the wierd path, alot moreso than Mac II did.

[JELEINEN]

Weak story and bad animation are the two biggest reasons I never cared for II.

[LordSixx]

Dude,

Are you sure your not mixing up the NAMES "Istar" and "Isamu"? Let Mac II die. It's the bastard child of the Mac family.

[Macross_Fanboy]

Man...I tried to watch Macross II and it sucked cock! It was too long and I felt like sleeping, my little brother who was watching with me knocked out. Mecha suck...just about everything sucked, the vocal tracks are pretty neat but the instrumentals suck. Bah! Worst 25 bucks I ever spent!

[Tekkaman Blade]

Grammar fix please. I didn't really understand the entire first post.

It looked like you kept mixing Mac Plus and Mac 2 together.

If you were askinga bout the YF-19 and YF-21, the 19 is showed again in Mac 7 as the Kai Valkyrie and the 21 is the base design of the VF-22 Sturmgovel in Mac 7.

If you weren't talking about, then sorry, but you really need to make your posts more understandable.

[macplus]

Sorry man, but with that question you're a complete newbie... sorry for being an a....le but it's true, a good look at the newbie tread will make a lot of things clearer, no pun intended!

Later

Edited August 6, 2004 by macplus

[VF-19 pilot!!!]

hi all,

i don't wanna be a bad guy...but the guy that started this thread doesn't know what the hell he is talking about

he basically homogonized to very diffrent mac movies and i'm still not sure what he is complaning about?

ishtar in mac plus? did i miss that memo?...VF's in mac plus? all the fighters in mac plus were prototypes with the designation YF 19, 21. with the acception of the VF-11B.

in any event true that macross II: lovers again was not the best movie i ever saw...but man were those valks great. the VF-2SS is perhaps my favoraite design.

and i must say that the soundtrack was really good. (music not Dub)

and i have to agree with a comment made by another. this thread was really started by a newbie or newbie like IMHO.

the only thing that came from this thread was to confuse the hell out of alot of veterans

[Radd]

Macross II did completely ignore the entire Protoculture/Supervision Army subplot of SDF and DYRL?, creating a major plot hole with the introduction of the Marduk and Lord Ingus.

To address another comment, M7 did not ignore any parts of DYRL? or SDF, and did not introduce any major plot holes. The problems people do have with M7 are entirely cosmetic in nature, and those that have these problems are very vocal about them. By comparison, those that do not like Macross II are very passive.

[BLACKACE52]

Man, glad I don't ask any questions being a newbie and all but to the point. Yeah you got your wires crossed between the two. I got MACII awhile ago and I have to say if it was the first macross I saw I'd never watch anything doing with Macross period. The story is just to boring to me, to much blah blah blah but the songs are nice. Get the soundtrack not the movie, sorry you already did. As to the valk's I have no idea. Your membership date makes you look like a veterian to me. But what do I know I'm a newbie Chow

[Cmdr. Grant]

What I think is strange is that Macross II is not considered canon. When I watched it, IMHO nothing stranger happens in Mac II than happens in Mac 7 by a long shot!.

Amen brother!

[Panon]

What I think is strange is that Macross II is not considered canon.  When I watched it, IMHO nothing stranger happens in Mac II than happens in Mac 7 by a long shot!.

What does that have to do with anything?

Macross 2 isn't a canon part of the timeline because it was made by people other than the creators of Macross and thus didn't reflect their vision, not because of anything "strange" in it.

[halfan]

Here's a question. Was Macross II ever considered part of the official storyline between the time is was released up until Macross Plus? I never read anything that specifically said Macross II was a side story. It wasn't until I saw a short chronology at the end of Macross Plus ep. 1 that listed Macross II as a parallel universe.

[Keith]

I actually tired of listing the many ways Macross II doesn't fit. Suffice it to say, anyone who's watched enough Macross know's already.

At the same time, there should be no doubt in anyones mind how Macross 7 fits, as well as the fact that it was nothing even remotely like a "monster of the week" series.

[azrael]

Here's a question. Was Macross II ever considered part of the official storyline between the time is was released up until Macross Plus?

Maybe, maybe not. At the time Big West made MII, Kawamori was off the Macross ride. He did some occasional valks (like the infamous Stampede Valk) but at that point, Kawamori and co. were done with Macross. Big West may have wanted to do something for the 10th anniversary (i.e. MII), but that was done without input from Studio Nue. Without Studio Nue's input (primarily Kawamori), it wasn't really part of the Macross timeline.

The same could be said about Orguss 2. Big West created that show without input from Studio Nue. And it is not part of the Orguss timeline.

[ComicKaze]

Same discussion over and over again. There will be people that like Macross II, there are people who don't. There are people that like Macross 7, yhere are people who don't. There are people that like both (me, but M2 has slight lead). There are people that don't care.

But even though I'm a fan of Macross 7, I don't think it "fits in" as Keith claims it does. I just liked the music. Well...except Basara. I kept wishing he would die througout the whole damn thing for being such a liberal pinko commie who flew into battle futily singing songs (remember no sound booster at first) while the real soldiers and pilots DIED defending City 7.

Edited August 6, 2004 by ComicKaze

[mikeszekely]

Same discussion over and over again. There will be people that like Macross II, there are people who don't. There are people that like Macross 7, yhere are people who don't. There are people that like both (me, but M2 has slight lead). There are people that don't care.

But even though I'm a fan of Macross 7, I don't think it "fits in" as Keith claims it does. I just liked the music. Well...except Basara. I kept wishing he would die througout the whole damn thing for being such a liberal pinko commie who flew into battle futily singing songs (remember no sound booster at first) while the real soldiers and pilots DIED defending City 7.

Macross 7, like it or not, fits. The Evils that became the Protodeviln were the next step in the same project that created the Zentraedi, and keeps very much with things that are mentioned in SDF Macross. The VF-11 returns from Macross Plus, and the VF-19 and VF-22 are simply the production models of the prototypes from Macross Plus. The Macross Fleets are the evolution of the Megaroad fleets, and one of the ships (the Maizuru, if I remember right) that's the next evolution of the ARMD series. The Varauta are actually members of Megaroad-13. Getting magic powers from music, while certainly bizzare, is a way of emphasizing that there was more to Minmei than simply culture shock, and not outside of Macross continuity.

Macross II, like it or not, does not fit. You might have been able to make weak excuses for it before the official sequels, but now, forget it. For starters, after 80 years, they've only been able to get up to the VF-2? Come on, we already had the VF-4, now we're moving backward. Not to mention that, after the official sequels, the VF-2 is really backward, and decidedly low-tech. Then there's the Macross. What was the point of refitting it in 2012, if they were going to spend the next 78 years letting it fall into disrepair again? Even more odd when conisdering that the military was still using the Macross as of 2040 in Macross Plus... without randomly shooting energy bolts into the air. Also, how'd it get in the middle of "Culture Park?" Last I checked, even in SDF Macross, they'd built a city around the Macross... a damn big one by Macross Plus. Finally, who the hell are the Marduk? What do they have to do with Protoculture? If the answer is "nothing," then where'd they get Zentraedi at?

I try to enjoy anything Macross. I liked 7 okay, and I take II for what it's worth... an alternate universe retelling of DYRL.

[Oihan]

I don't get to say this very often...so I'm gonna say it now while I have a chance.

Macross II 0wnz!

[Keith]

"But even though I'm a fan of Macross 7, I don't think it "fits in" as Keith claims it does. I just liked the music. Well...except Basara. I kept wishing he would die througout the whole damn thing for being such a liberal pinko commie who flew into battle futily singing songs (remember no sound booster at first) while the real soldiers and pilots DIED defending City 7."

Except for the fact that those pilots would have died irregardless, and he actually "DID" save both their lives, and the lives of the pilots that were captured into fighting for the Protodevelin. Considering that "singing" was the only way to defeat the Protodevelin (as the 7 fleet was vastly outgunned to the point where not even reaction weapons made a difference), its entirely idiotic to call it "futile."

[alindasue]

But even though I'm a fan of Macross 7, I don't think it "fits in" as Keith claims it does. I just liked the music. Well...except Basara. I kept wishing he would die througout the whole damn thing for being such a liberal pinko commie who flew into battle futily singing songs (remember no sound booster at first) while the real soldiers and pilots DIED defending City 7.

"liberal pinko commie"? Since Basara doesn't have any use for political affiliations, I think it would be more accurate to just call him what he is, a "pacifist" or "war protester".

By the way, if you like the music of Macross 7, you might want to check out Yoshiki Fukuyama Official Website

Fukuyama-san is the singing voice (but not acting voice) and guitar of Basara. He's also done a good deal of other music both anime related and not.

If you can't read the Japanese, a fair amount of his information has been translated and posted on my home page. (see sig.)

Except for the fact that those pilots would have died irregardless, and he actually "DID" save both their lives, and the lives of the pilots that were captured into fighting for the Protodevelin. Considering that "singing" was the only way to defeat the Protodevelin (as the 7 fleet was vastly outgunned to the point where not even reaction weapons made a difference), its entirely idiotic to call it "futile."

As Basara put it during the Dynamite OVAs, he didn't "defeat" anyone. The military saw Basara's music as a weapon. Basara saw it as a communication tool. Remember, Basara agreed to participate in "Sound Force" only as far as it suited his motives.

Basara did however actively save several people during the show... only once using weapons. His usual methods were either to use himself as a shield or to draw the Protodevelin away, allowing people to escape... and he did help out in non-combative ways such as helping Gamilin with repairs during that one episode where they had gotten too close to a sun.

Back on the topic of Macross II... I remember enjoying it when I watched it, but that was several years ago. I don't remember much about the actual show...

peace

[Protoplast]

"But even though I'm a fan of Macross 7, I don't think it "fits in" as Keith claims it does. I just liked the music. Well...except Basara. I kept wishing he would die througout the whole damn thing for being such a liberal pinko commie who flew into battle futily singing songs (remember no sound booster at first) while the real soldiers and pilots DIED defending City 7."

Except for the fact that those pilots would have died irregardless, and he actually "DID" save both their lives, and the lives of the pilots that were captured into fighting for the Protodevelin. Considering that "singing" was the only way to defeat the Protodevelin (as the 7 fleet was vastly outgunned to the point where not even reaction weapons made a difference), its entirely idiotic to call it "futile."

As you pointed out, you only like the music and yet, you don't understand Basara's music and what he sings about.

Calling him a "liberal pinko?"

So you think only Basara is against war?

Even Hikaru questioned why he was in the military and why he fights. One episode in Macross, even Millia + Max tries to stop the endless killing. Don't forget Misa tries to convince his father to try to push for a peaceful resolution.

Do you really think Macross is only about flying mechs fighting?? Maybe you should go watch Gundam and enjoy all seeing all the people getting killed senselessly.

You also failed to understand that Macross 7 is important, they discovered the origins of Protoculture and those foul beasts and monsters that you didn't understand happens to be the Predators of both humans and zentraedis.

At the end of the day, I'm tired of reading people constantly bash M7 and they dare to even call themselves Macross fans..

[Protoplast]

Same discussion over and over again. There will be people that like Macross II, there are people who don't. There are people that like Macross 7, yhere are people who don't. There are people that like both (me, but M2 has slight lead). There are people that don't care.

But even though I'm a fan of Macross 7, I don't think it "fits in" as Keith claims it does. I just liked the music. Well...except Basara. I kept wishing he would die througout the whole damn thing for being such a liberal pinko commie who flew into battle futily singing songs (remember no sound booster at first) while the real soldiers and pilots DIED defending City 7.

Macross 7, like it or not, fits. The Evils that became the Protodeviln were the next step in the same project that created the Zentraedi, and keeps very much with things that are mentioned in SDF Macross. The VF-11 returns from Macross Plus, and the VF-19 and VF-22 are simply the production models of the prototypes from Macross Plus. The Macross Fleets are the evolution of the Megaroad fleets, and one of the ships (the Maizuru, if I remember right) that's the next evolution of the ARMD series. The Varauta are actually members of Megaroad-13. Getting magic powers from music, while certainly bizzare, is a way of emphasizing that there was more to Minmei than simply culture shock, and not outside of Macross continuity.

Macross II, like it or not, does not fit. You might have been able to make weak excuses for it before the official sequels, but now, forget it. For starters, after 80 years, they've only been able to get up to the VF-2? Come on, we already had the VF-4, now we're moving backward. Not to mention that, after the official sequels, the VF-2 is really backward, and decidedly low-tech. Then there's the Macross. What was the point of refitting it in 2012, if they were going to spend the next 78 years letting it fall into disrepair again? Even more odd when conisdering that the military was still using the Macross as of 2040 in Macross Plus... without randomly shooting energy bolts into the air. Also, how'd it get in the middle of "Culture Park?" Last I checked, even in SDF Macross, they'd built a city around the Macross... a damn big one by Macross Plus. Finally, who the hell are the Marduk? What do they have to do with Protoculture? If the answer is "nothing," then where'd they get Zentraedi at?

I try to enjoy anything Macross. I liked 7 okay, and I take II for what it's worth... an alternate universe retelling of DYRL.

A lot of people here who thinks Macross II fits more than M7 because it carries over the basic Macross story template from the original. Great mech design, the typical nothing unusual plot, then they throw in Ishtar who's like another Minmei and then twist the story around, now Macross 2 feels like a completely different story. I know so many people were confused of Hibiki with Hikaru and then saw M2 and said it wasn't what they expected.

It's like watching Gundam Wing, they have nothing to do with Gundam Universal Century stories. Which I don't mind watching, it's good to have variety than sticking to the same old conservative stories and designs..

[Protoplast]

I just saw macross two on starz action channel on the digital cable we have out at our new House. As I have always been more into the toys [jetfire ] than plot subtleties I let most of the romanticism I hold for macross/r-word come from what I remember as a child. We all know DYRL had a plot, R-word had a story line... but what the heck is this? I remember "istar" from mac plus vol1&2 [all I saw as it was a rental at a gaming store]. Is macross II the complete story of mac plus??? I know I saw for the first time, much to my dismay, the first animated representations of a few valks I have come to love.

My question is thus... Is this really the only appearence of these cool valks? Did the 2ss and 19 appear nowhear else animated? Is the only good that came from this the toys? Are some of my coolest toys based on something seen for such a brief ammount of time on a show so lame....?

AND NO.... I AM NOT A NEWBY!!!!! Just some-one who saw this travisty for the first time... makes me question the wisdom of 30+ 1/55's in a closet is all

Yes, you are a newbie.. 30+ mechs in the closet doesn't mean you got knowledge.

Getting confused of Mac+ with M2 is the the biggest sign that you are a big newbie.

[Renato]

"MASH, IT'S HIBIKI ON DA PHONE."

[Gokurakumaru]

Macross II, like it or not, does not fit. You might have been able to make weak excuses for it before the official sequels, but now, forget it. For starters, after 80 years, they've only been able to get up to the VF-2? Come on, we already had the VF-4, now we're moving backward. Not to mention that, after the official sequels, the VF-2 is really backward, and decidedly low-tech. Then there's the Macross. What was the point of refitting it in 2012, if they were going to spend the next 78 years letting it fall into disrepair again? Even more odd when conisdering that the military was still using the Macross as of 2040 in Macross Plus... without randomly shooting energy bolts into the air. Also, how'd it get in the middle of "Culture Park?" Last I checked, even in SDF Macross, they'd built a city around the Macross... a damn big one by Macross Plus. Finally, who the hell are the Marduk? What do they have to do with Protoculture? If the answer is "nothing," then where'd they get Zentraedi at?

This is some of the most hilarious crap I've ever seen. Macross 2 doesn't fit because the official sequels which hadn't been created yet have more advanced aircraft in them? The military were using the Macross in 2040 according to another sequel which hadn't been created yet? Last I checked the city built around the Macross got leveled by Kamjin so I have no problem with them putting a park there. Heck even if it hadn't been leveled, there's a big ass lake the Macross sits in which screams park more than business centre to me. Cities have parks in them too you know.

And where do people get off deciding a brand new race of aliens introduced in one series works better than a brand new race introduced in another? We learn pretty much nothing concrete from the original series so the Marduk could well have been what everybody was referring to as the supervision army using brainwashed Zentradi as they were, or they could just have been another race out there who picked them up along the way. It doesn't really matter. It doesn't conflict with anything Macross said or introduce plot holes. It just explores avenues which weren't there yet.

Thematically Macross, Plus, 7, and Zero have about 0% in common anyhow so Kawamori should have just butt out, rolled with the blow, and worked with Big West's continuity. They pay the bills, not him.

[Keith]

This is some of the most hilarious crap I've ever seen. Macross 2 doesn't fit because the official sequels which hadn't been created yet have more advanced aircraft in them?

When you consider the stale level of developement shown in Macross II, definately. You also have to consider how Macross II ignores any & all forms of continuity which came before it.

The military were using the Macross in 2040 according to another sequel which hadn't been created yet? Last I checked the city built around the Macross got leveled by Kamjin so I have no problem with them putting a park there. Heck even if it hadn't been leveled, there's a big ass lake the Macross sits in which screams park more than business centre to me. Cities have parks in them too you know.

You recall incorrectly. Go watch Flash Back 2012.

And where do people get off deciding a brand new race of aliens introduced in one series works better than a brand new race introduced in another

When you consider that the "brand new race" in II has absolutely no origins whatsoever given, no real motives for their being there, and hell, no purpose but to re-inact the events of DYRL, the decision is made before you watch. Then of course there's the fact that the actual creator's of the series were involved with one, and were not with the other, then your answer is clear.

We learn pretty much nothing concrete from the original series so the Marduk could well have been what everybody was referring to as the supervision army using brainwashed Zentradi as they were, or they could just have been another race out there who picked them up along the way. It doesn't really matter. It doesn't conflict with anything Macross said or introduce plot holes. It just explores avenues which weren't there yet.

What series were you watching? Much of the history was revealed in Macross TV, finer points were ironed out in 7, but it was all essentially there. All the "maybe's" with the Marduk are just that. They could have just as easily popped up out of a box of Lucky Charms© for all the info that is given on them. They overtly contradict what info was given about the Protoculture, let alone the Supervision Army.

Thematically Macross, Plus, 7, and Zero have about 0% in common

Again, have you even watched any of this???

anyhow so Kawamori should have just butt out, rolled with the blow, and worked with Big West's continuity. They pay the bills, not him.

To the contrary, Big West begged to get him & Nue back after the failure that was II. The fact that they let him shluff aside an expensive to produce OVA should prove that beyond any doubt. Kawamori & Nue were done with Macross after FB 2012, it was Big West screwing things up by themselves that brought them back.

[Panon]

When you consider the stale level of developement shown in Macross II, definately. You also have to consider how Macross II ignores any & all forms of continuity which came before it.

Considering that the stagnation and complacency of the UN Spacy was an important point of the first episode, I'd wager it was completely deliberate, and it makes plenty of sense given the way M2 had chosen to portray post original/DYRL.