Radd

I really gotta agree with Keith on this one. There really shouldn't be such arguments flying back and forth about stuff like the Marduk and the Supervision Army when it's clear that the Supervision Army is introduced and gets some history in SDF Macross. The Protoculture get even more of an explanation, with even more gaps filled in with the release of 'DYRL?'. With even what scant information is given on those two groups, the Marduk seem like a glaring continuity break, and no effort was given to work them into the existing continuity. Sure, you can come up with all sorts of fan speculation that might or might not put your mind at ease on some issues, but in the end there is no official explanation. They're not explained as being the Supervision Army, the Protoculture, or having any relation to either...when the U.N. Spacey should have a lot of information on that. Heck, Britai was head of the U.N. forces for a while. Exedole was in the employ of the Spacey, even. You'd think a Zentradi archivist would know about these Marduk. They knew about the Protoculture and the Supervision Army as early as the original series and the movie. Also, the fact that the Protoculture and the Supervision Army aren't mentioned is a big thing due to the Marduk's place in the story. It is highly relevant. I shouldn't need to explain why, it's obvious. The Marduk in Macross II take the place of the Protoculture and/or the Supervision Army. As such, their relation to those previously mentioned groups is very important to the Marduk's place in the Macross II universe, yet this information is not even brought up. The U.N. Spacey should have been like, "What's with these ships...they're like Zentran ships, but not...what's with that? Are they the Supervision Army? If so, why do their ships not look like the old Supervision Army ships? Are they the Protoculture? Let's get some Zentradi archivists in here, pronto." A big part of the actual OVA was about the Marduk, yet their reason for being, when they seem to contradict set Macross continuity, is never even mentioned. And what's all this talk about 'DYRL?' being fiction so it can't be contradicted? 'Lovers Again' is supposed to be a sequel to DYRL? so it most certainly should hold true to that continuity. There is absolutely no reason to think otherwise. A sequel should follow the contiuty of it's predecessors, new elements should be explained or at least given some link to what came before (or after in the case of prequels). I also agree with Keith that Macross Zero has not rewritten anything. It doesn't contradict anything from SDF Macross, DYRL?, or any other derivatives. It will probably, eventually, contradict the unanimated Macross chronology, but that hardly means much. I wholeheartedly agree with the George Lucas approach to 'what's canon and what's not'. Grok? Where are you getting this information that the VF-2 is better than the VF-4? What are your sources? I've seen nothing that suggests this. As for the VF-2 looking better? I must disagree. Whether or not you like the battroid mode (I happen to think it's one of the best battroid modes Kawamori has come up with), it certainly looks more advanced than the VF-2's battroid, which is exactly how Keith described it. It's simply a sharper, more angular version of the original VF-1 battroid. It's Valkyrie Light, Brand X, it comes in a yellow box with black lettering that says 'VF-2SS'. I do, on the other hand, agree with Nathan that just because no long range missions and colonization are mentioned this does not mean they don't exist in the Macross II universe. Also, keep in mind it's a big universe out there, while unlikely it's entirely possible that the Marduk just stumbled across Earth. I gotta go with Keith on the rebuilt Macross. The ARMD carriers are just that, not huge guns. The cannons in the legs also made no sense, especially when it was shown that the city was still there. It didn't help that it wasn't drawn very well. And about the VF being able to fly around the world, Nathan, go back and watch DYRL? again, that's all I'm going to say. Whether or not Hikaru and Misa did fly around the world is not even in question. You do yourself and your argument a disservice by questioning what's stated as fact in the movie.

Umm, no, I meant that Macross II goes against what came before it, meaning SDF Macross, DYRL?, and Flashback 2012. For more on that, go read up the thread regarding the debate on the relationship between the Marduk and the Protoculture.

I think Keith means, Macross Plus doesn't outright go against anything that happened before it in the timeline, where as Macross II and Orguss II (I'm taking his word here, never seen it) blatantly ignore continuity and break it at several points. I'm inclined to agree. I like continuity in my favourite shows. I'm not a stickler about it, and I can handle redone versions of shows into movies, especially when they're so incredibly well done as DYRL?, but when I see a 'sequel' that looks like it was made by someone that hadn't even seen what had come before it...it doesn't win any brownie points with me.

I really don't see any need to turn this into another Macross 7 debate, the topic was Macross II. I think it's pretty obvious that those of us that love Macross 7 would prefere it to the Macross II, and the fact that those that despise Macross 7 say that Macross II's biggest merit is that "it's better than Macross 7" says a lot about this OVA. I'm certain that there's fans of Macross II that would disagree with both of those opposing camps.

Yeah, Macross II was pretty mediocre in my opinion. It has it's merits, but aside from the VF-2SS's fighter mode (I've always thought battroid mode was to bland, like generic Valkyrie, and I don't even remember seeing it in gerwalk), the mecha aren't that interesting. The music's allright, but it's nothing special. I mainly like the BGM music. The entire story is basically one big rehash of 'DYRL?', but with some new story elements mixed in that really don't make a whole lot of sense. I thought it was really cool when it first came out, and I was still unclear on the differences between SDF Macross and Robotech, and hadn't seen 'DYRL?' yet, but with Macross Plus, Macross 7, and now Macross Zero, I'm very glad Kawamori came back to the franchise and took the series in a different direction. Macross II's place in the Macross franchise is just too Gundam for me, rehash of the same old story, slightly different.

For me, nothing tops the VF-4 Lightning III. My all time favourite Valkyrie. Sleekest, most graceful fighter mode, and most powerful looking battroid mode. The gerwalk mode is so-so, but I've disliked just about every gerwalk mode since the VF-1, the VF-11 being the happy exception.

While I agree it is definitely pretty, and I was very excited about the series when I first got ahold of it, it really began to drag towards the middle. It's really lacking in the character developement department, at least as far in as I've seen. I've heard it picks up again, and I can't wait to see the rest, but from what I have seen there are some much better shows that have come out of 2003. The six promo Logs, and the extra Log, that came out for the upcoming series 'BLAME!' are absolutely incredible in and of themselves. I can't wait for the series to start. I sincerely hope it manages the same feel with longer episodes. I'd actually be happy with a long running series of short 6 minute episodes, if it kept the same quality as these Logs. The new Captain Herlock OVA seems to be one of the top new items to come out of this year, and we can't forget about Macross Zero which I'm enjoying immensly. Galaxy Railways has only just started, and is already living up to the promise of more Leij Matsumoto-y goodness. Jungle wa Itsumo Hale Nochi Guu is probably the best show to come out this year that I've seen in it's entirety. One of the best anime comedies period. I'm still amazed at a comedy that pulled off really serious parts that never came out look awkward or poorly written (now if only the american movie industry could learn that trick). Overall, this has been a very good year for anime in general. I imagine that a lot of what came out this year will be remembered for a long time to come.

No problems here, really, aside that the micro missles don't want to fit in well. I've left them on the plastic thing until I work out a way to fit them in better. Not a problem as far as I'm concerned, as long as I keep the panels on the missle racks. I had some troubles getting Roy's armour on, but that was because I was half asleep and trying to put the left leg armour on the right leg and things like that. I've even get my Roy Strike in a tres bad-ass pose on top of my computer desk. I'll take a picture either this morning when I get home from work, or tomorrow night after my short shift. I've also had little to no problems with the 1/48ths in general. Roy has a zit, that's the worst problem I've had.

True, compared to anime in general, Macross 7 isn't fan-service intensive at all, but as far as only Macross goes, there seems to be more in 7 than anything other than Macross II (where ALL of the emulators wore nothing but revealing skintight outfits that only, and just barely, covered the unmentionables). Even so, Macross 7 doesn't have all that much fan service, but when it does have some, it's blatant.

I've never had a problem with the Protodevlin, only the character designs of some of them. There's no such issue with the AFOS. I'd certainly have no problem if it was related to the Protodevlin or the eVil series , but I doubt this is the case if it has more to do with the Protoculture themselves. Of course, maybe the Protoculture that came to Earth were wiped out by this Protodevlin, which they managed to destroy before it could finish the job and destroy all life on Earth.

VF-4 ugly? naaaaaaaahhh, it has the most badass battroid along with the VF-19! i just wish they had the VF-4G in this game, that model has head lasers. I agree, though I like the VF-4 battroid mode than the 19, even.

I'd say Fire Bomber/Humming Bird has much closer ties to 80's rock than to New Kids on the Block, or any other boy band for that matter. From what I understand, Humming Bird was an independant band that did mainly folk rock music until they got the gig to do Fire Bomber's music. I like Planet Dance, not the best Fire Bomber has to offer, but not a bad song. I think the main problem is that it's so over played in the series. It's the one song practically guaranteed to play once in every single episode. I'll agree the show has far too much fan service. I don't neccessarily think it's sick and wrong (Even in America, girls used to get married and have kids around that age. Morals, being completely illusory, change with the times.) so much as it's not my cup of tea. Still, I think the character developement (the show is heavily dependant on character and relationship developement, so if you like that kind of show then you'll probably like Macross 7) and overal story offer more than enough to keep the show more interesting than a lot of other shows out there. The show has a very strong message, and the vocal split in opinions about the show, and the slow change in those opinions over time, demonstrates just how well thought out the character developement in the show actually is. I just took an entire paragraph to say what Keith said several posts up in six words.

I'd be suprised if a Max and Millia 1/48 set wasn't in the works. As far as wishful thinking goes, though, I'd really like a 1/48th VF-4. (Maybe if we say that enough, it'll happen! )

No, the cockpit has not been made shorter. That's the first I've heard about people complaining it was too long. Graham I think he ment the nose, as the Yamato is quite a deal more endowed than most other valks. LOL....Yamato 1/48, the John Holmes of Valkyries Graham I dunno, the 1/60's nosecone is about the same length, but overly thin instead of overly thick. Both are longer than the Bandai 1/55ths, and that poor, poor VF-11...even it's FAST packs don't make up for it's shortcomings....

I think you misread it. I'm pretty certain they mean Sega's upcoming lineups for arcade and consoles, meaning the Gamecube, the XBox, and the PS2.

Looks like I'll have to get one last 1/48th VF-1, but yeah I still wish the cockpit resculpt was more complete. Seems more like a hybrid of the tv and DYRL? cockpits. And although it does clearly say that GBP set is for the 1/60 line, I do hope that Yamato eventually releases a GBP set for the 1/48th line. (But a 1/48th VF-4 has priority!)

I agree, the hands don't look right. The size is great, though...but you probably need to take them off to transform it, right? Still, if someone here ever finds a toy with hands that do look right, I imagine a ton of MWers running out and snatching them up for their hands to do something like this.

I've heard the FX set also has better video and audio quality. That's the set I have, and the quality is definitely top notch. The subtitles are very decent as far as HK bootlegs go, and there are tons of extras.

If I understand correclty, Wyrlac is saying that Big West did not sue Tatsunoko for the reasons claimed in the letter (that they sued explicitly for ownership of the designs, then Tatsunoko sued them for ownership of the series). My only thoughts on the topic at the moment is that I seem to recall points where HG employees specifically stated they owned the designs, such as the U.N. Spacey Kite that they copyrighted as the RDF symbol or something. Feel free to take that with a grain of salt unless someone is willing to do the footwork to look up specific examples with proof. I have to run off to work.

It's a 1/60. That's a 1/60 scale Quad-ra. I can't wait. I hope they come with pilot figures. Say, anyone remember if the 1/60 FAST pack kits will come with pilots?

Like most others, I think variety is the big thing. The Elintseeker is just so different from your standard VF-1, or a VF-1 with FAST packs. I also think it looks a lot cooler than the Super Ostrich (which I'm also fond of).

I've reached my VF-1 saturation point. I want variety now. I have all three of the 'DYRL?' Skull Squadron Valkyries in 1/48th and plan to get the Hikaru 1J, after that I don't plan on getting anymore 1/48ths until something other than the VF-1 is made, or they release significantly different variants like the GBP armour, the Elintseeker, and the Super Ostrich. I'm considering starting a 1/60 collection for that purpose, and only buying the really unique stuff like those, and picking up a FAST pack set for my single Max VF-1A, and moving on to the enemy mecha and destroids (if Yamato makes Destroids). I'm seriously considering selling off most of my Transformers and some of my Bandai reissues for that purpose.

I've argued this many times in the past, and I'll argue it again Just because we don't see something in the animation, doesn't mean it isn't there. How do we know there are no new destroids? There is absolutely nothing that tells us there isn't, we just don't see them. In Macross 7 the Patroids make more sense than full size Destroids in the middle of a fully populated city. The Konig Monster is a good example of a new, fast deployment Destroid. It's variable form allows it to get to the battlefield quickly, without endangering another vehicle and it's crew. It also allows for quick retrieval. Whether or not other Destroids get the variable treatment is an interesting question. Also, I'm not saying there are definitely new Destroids, I'm just saying that in the 1 tv series that takes place mostly on a heavily populated colony ship, 1 4 part OVA that followed fighter developement, and 2 videogames about a fighter squadron, we see no new destroids, but that doesn't mean they're not there. There's just been no appropriate place to showcase them. Besides, the Valkyries are what's popular, Kawamori and company will be concentrating on showing those off above all else. As for Zentradi, there is the variable Glaug for those that aren't big on the traditional Valkyries. Probably giant-sized ground troops as well, for specific missions. Probably lots of miclonized ground infantry as well. All with air/ground support from the Valkyrie squadrons. Speculation, of course, but that's all we can hope for until Kawamori shows us something new.

Guld is good, don't get me wrong he was definitely Ace material, but it's very clearly shown in Macross Plus that flying is everything to Isamu. He doesn't just fly because he likes to, he flies because to him it's like breathing.He's not just overenthusiastic, he is most at home in the cockpit of a fighter plane. Guld does not give off that impression at all, really. It seems he became a fighter pilot for different reasons (perhaps in an attempt to out-do his rival). As for the test performance bars in Macross Plus, well, I was lead to believe that Isamu's skill as a fighter pilot lent itself to the success of the 19 during the tests. After all, if it was solely the performance of the fighter itself, wouldn't the 19 have been winning before Isamu showed up? I still stand by my view that the military would not have picked up the superior fighter to replace their cannon fodder, and then used the inferior fighter to replace their special operations Valkyries. I also don't see how anyone else could think that either.

The VF-19 is tomorrow's cannon fodder. The reason the aces get the VF-22 is because it's more expensive (and they'd already settled on mass producing the 19), but is still the superior plane. I agree, from everything I've seen the YF-21/VF-22 is the better plane, though in Macross Plus (and possibly VF-X2) it was the 19 that had the better pilot. Just look at how the U.N. Spacey purchased them. The 19 was purchased to replace the VF-11 as the mainstay fighter of the fleet. The new Cannon Fodder as mikeszekely put's it. Meanwhile, the VF-22 was picked up afterwards to be a special operations fighter, for only the best pilots and the most critical missions. Gamlin's VF-22 is even in Diamond Force colours, which leads me to believe that Diamond Force got upgraded from their VF-17s into some VF-22s. Think about that. The VF-19 is the replacement for the VF-11, while the VF-22 is the replacement for the VF-17. Why would they give the better pilots, and those pilots flying special missions, the worse of the two planes?