Gubaba

No. The show comes out and states that there were only seven (and now there are only three).

Touché.

Seto Kaiba mentioned before that one of the Macross II books lists the mardook as being creators of the Zentradi. Of course, even after a long search, I can't seem to find that post (it may have been in the Macross II thread at RT.com) and since I don't have the book in question, it's not an easily testable hypothesis...I decided to give him the benefit of a doubt, though. Seto Kaiba seems to be tied only with Oihan in devotion to Macross II. EDIT: Found it! http://www.robotech.com/community/forum/re...mp;pagenumber=6 Again, since I don't have the Entertainment Bible, I can't really go back and check to see if he's right...but really, why would anyone lie about something so outrageous?

The character designs for MacII are, IMHO, quite nice. But yeah...you'll also notice that no one mentions Sukehiro Tomita, who wrote MacII. He was also one of the main writers on SDFM and DYRL, and later went on to work on Mac7, D7, and Macross Generation. So although MacII was done without Studio Nue's involvement, there were a few old-school Macross people who worked on it. As for why it can't can't be canonical, it seems to me that it boils down to two things: VF-2 (what about VF-4 through 27...?) and the fact that Mardook apparently created the Zentradi.

I'm going to comfort myself by rewatching ALL of Macross...and of course, there's always the Macross Chronicle.

Crap...the fact that you're completely right about Luca vis à vis Shinji makes me think that perhaps you'll be right about the "Vajra Inner Beauty men," too...and I don't think I could handle that. I agree with you completely about the "sing-off," that Ranka and Sheryl seemed to be having some fun with it. In fact, come to think of it...that's really the last time we saw either of them having a whole lot of fun, isn't it...? That makes me kind of sad.

Not entirely. The Oberth Space Destroyer page shows the U.N. Space Forces as they were in 2009. At that time, the SDF-2 was the Megalord battleship form they show. Later, it was turned into the Megaroad-01 colonization ship. (But how Japanese fans - the target base, no? - are supposed to keep this clear, since "Megaroad" and "Megalord" are spelled the same in Japanese is a mystery that faileth my understanding...). But perhaps in DYRL, there was no surviving Moon Base and there was no Megalord. Which would be why they show the DYRL Macross going straight on to the Megaroad-01. Maybe.

If we're gonna go retcon, I say go all the way... Isamu, Guld, and the Sharon-controlled Ghost should show up and beat the crap out of the Vajra.

I searched around for them for a while, but I finally gave up...I mean, there's so much Macross-related stuff on CD that never got uploaded to the internet until you or markcell or I got their hands on it, what chance does a 1995 cassette tape given out as a promotional item have of turning up? of course, I suppose someone could surprise us (I never thought I'd get to hear "Message from Ishtar/Mou Ichido Love You ~ Mardook Version"), but it seems really unlikely. After EXTENSIVE searching (mostly because I imported most of the audio entries from the old macross Compendium to the new one, and I wanted to make sure I knew what I was talking about about), all I ever found about the cassette audio dramas was on here: http://firebomber.sakura.ne.jp/reaitem.htm The section on "Longest Noise Day" and "The Basara Elimination Project" is right under the entry on the Hasegawa VF-22S model kit. It gives a short synopsis of the story, but it's pretty clear that whoever wrote the entry had never actually heard the cassette, so it's not like we can even e-mail him, begging for a copy. I think that this is one of those bits of Macross lore that will remain forever lost to us, unless someone REALLY throws open the vaults and re-releases every last scrap of material. In other words, maybe on the Macross 7 Blu-Ray set, if that ever comes out. But until then...I don't really mind. There's too much Macross 7 audio material out there already. I mean, there are SEVEN freakin' drama albums already! I don't want to have to deal with another one...

I can't argue with that, although I will point out that a lot of the dialogue from the translation which is taken verbatim from the show is tossed out with a casualness lacking in the original (Example 1: "I hate to admit it, but maybe I made a mistake. I'll just have to write it off to youthful inexperience..."). I wonder if Tomino got any better, though. I mean, he's written almost twenty Gundam novels, and who knows how many Dunbine books. I certainly HOPE that by the time he got to Beltorchika's Children and Hathaway's Flash, he'd improved...

The appearance of the SDF-2 in the lake doesn't bother me HALF as much as the Bridge Bunny Massacre... EDIT: Crap. "bother," not "both." Oh well, seems like everyone understood what I meant...

Conversely, you could wait a couple of weeks and buy the CD...

My Japanese isn't perfect, but it's usually enough to get by, so I download the hq raw...but I rarely come to here until I've downloaded and watched it. I *might* wait for subs for the final episode, but I probably won't.

Yes, I believe I stated that the novels contradict each other. And I have to admit I wasn't terribly impressed with the writing on the novels, although I'm not sure if that's due to the translation or if the original just wasn't very good. But regardless whether you like them or not, it most certainly is how Tomino would tell the story free of merchandising restrictions.

Nah, that was a clone. By 2059, there's an army of Kawamoris running about, designing Valkyries, directing movies, and stalking idol singers.

Which, I admit, does make good business sense, since more people watched the original Gundam than watched Zeta and Double Zeta. But it all just kind of confirms my belief that, as contradictory as they are (to the series and to each other), the novels are the "real" version of the story...or at least, what the story would be like if Tomino hadn't had Bandai breathing down his neck. No I just wish someone would translate the rest of 'em, or (and this is more likely) I get my Japanese good enough that I can read them myself. And then I need to win the lottery so I can spend the ten years translating all of them...

Don't they all start MBR except the Monster (which is, I think, HWR...?). For me, it's not the extra letter that gives me trouble, it's all the numbers that come after; SDF-1 is easy to remember, SDF-27956322748 wouldn't be. (I can't believe I'm actually arguing about this... )

That wasn't what the liner notes said. They said that "Triangler" was the theme song for a "trendy drama" (which is a kind of Japanese soap opera, sometimes historical, but definitely NOT an action show) about Hikaru, Misa, and Minmay. Is there action in SDFM? Yes. Is "Triangler" the theme song of SDFM? No. It was a joke, and a way to give the song some in-universe context. It wasn't a blueprint for a retcon. Besides, Macross Chronicles is very clear about this: SDFM is WHAT HAPPENED. It's in the Timeline, it's in the History Sheet, it's in the World Guide and Technology Sheets. DYRL isn't. And if Macross Chronicle isn't jumping on the chance to retcon, then it's not in Big West's plan (at least, not yet... ) As for why DYRL is used in Frontier, well...it's still a legendary song, isn't it? Think of it like Celin Dion's Titantic song. Of course it didn't actually get played on the real Titanic at all, but it makes us think of the Titanic, doesn't it? (And, usually, makes us want to vomit...but that's another story.)

It could work... Mikhail = Fred Sheryl = Daphne Nanase = Velma And Alto and Ranka are Shaggy and Scooby, respectively. Hell, you could even throw in Ai-kun as Scrappy-Doo, if you'd like.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but it's pretty common in Japanese to cut off the final period in things like that, since they usually use a dot rather than a period. Examples abound, but the only specifically Macross ones I can think of offhand are "1.2.3.4.5.6.7 Nights" and "The Cream P.U.F".

And then Luca sings "Santi-U." (I'm still holding out hope that it'll happen!)

YES! The most flawless, best thought-out plan in all of military history! There's A LOT they could've expanded on... I wonder which would've served CCA better: cutting out all the extraneous characters and material, or keeping it all in but making it a longer OVA instead of a movie? CCA doesn't feel quite as overstuffed as, say, F91, but I did find myself wishing for either a smaller scale story, or the slow-moving grandeur of Be Forever Yamato or something like that. That said, I still like CCA a lot.

Damn, now you've got me hoping for an ending where Leon says, "And I would've gotten away with it, if it weren't for you meddling kids!"

You know, I really miss the days when we could have a nice conversation about Sherl and Ranka's respective merits without eye-rolling, sneering, insults, and the like.

Oh well. Everyone's entitled to an opinion...I guess.