Gubaba

I DON'T REALLY UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU MEAN BY THIS IDEA GOES WAY BEFORE MACROSS CHRONICLES AND WHAT IS THE ORIGINAL SOURCE OF ROBOTECH TV SERIES AS SEEN IN 1985. ARE YOU JUST GOING TO PLUNDER MACROSS MATERIALS OR ARE YOU GOING TO DO SOMETHING NEW LIEK PALLADIUM DID I DON'T REALLY GET IT AND TYPING IN ALL CAPS WITH NO PUNCTUATION DOESN'T MAKE IT ANY EASIER TO UNDERSTAND. In other words, if you're going to stay true to Robotech, does that mean staying away from Macross materials? Or does it mean just using the Macross stats and changing the names of everything? I haven't done many translations from Chronicle related for the original Macross TV series, but if I did (and I probably will), I'd be rather annoyed if someone copied and pasted my translation, and just changed the names to Robotech names. Is that's what's going to happen? Or are you going to copy stuff from the Macross Compendium? Neither of those options would be...um...well received, I think. But if you're not going to get the info from Macross publications, where will you get it...?

Does that mean we WON'T be seeing your translation of all the VF-1 pages anytime soon...?

That raises an interesting question...how difficult is it for them to sing "in character"? Pretty much all voice actors can sing...do they have to think about "Now, how would Grace sing this?" or do they just go in and sing normally? I mean, Bobby's voice actor definitely sings in character, but what about the others?

A Robotech Chronicle...? Where are they going to get the information? (I have a sneaking suspicion they'll simply come here and plunder the Macross Chronicle Translation thread...makes me glad I've been too busy to work on Chronicle lately...)

Ouch, man. Rough story. I'd be pretty damn bitter if I were, um, "him."

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: No, YOU suck! Y is SO MUCH better than X. If you knew anything about adult relationships AT ALL, you would agree. And if you don't know anything about adult relationships, why am I having this conversation? Trust me, X sucks so badly, there's no way the director will let her win. You don't know the director like I do. He's sure to pick Y. And if, on the off chance he doesn't, I'll bitch and moan about it and say I got trolled and rickrolled and I'll start talking about how the director never had a girlfriend so he doesn't know what love is, and how much he tried to ruin his own show, and how I hope he dies before the movie version is finished so that he can't wreck that, too. But none of that will happen, because if you knew ANYTHING about ANYTHING, you'd know that Y is better. The end. (Oh wait, I wasn't QUITE condescending enough...) I can't believe you like X. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: (There. All done now. Feel your blood pressure rise.)

Why can't you have both? I do.

Hmmm...that's still 72 issues from which to choose...not good odds. And according to Renato, old issues of Out are quite rare. I found this, which seems to give a pretty complete run-down of the issue. Nothing about Ohnogi, though: http://ameblo.jp/abstract1/entry-10146415805.html Googling ファミ通, 1035, and 大野木寛 all together got me about 13 results, none of which were useful.

When Grace sings the line about "When he thought no one was looking, he kissed me," I hope Leon makes smoochy sounds.

Followed by Captain Wilder and Howard Glass singing "Dakedo Baby."

But EVERYBODY hates Robotech Minmay! It's the American Way!

And rightly so. Hell, you should've given him a wedgie, too.

I know, I know. That and Gurren Lagann are the shows I ABSOLUTELY!!! MUST!!! WATCH!!! It all really depends on how quickly I can get the SDFM novelization done. That's taking up most of my free time now.

It's funny...when I was watching it, I went into "Translation Mode" during a couple of scenes, and was trying to figure out how best to translate her "Kimochi yokatta...," finally deciding on "Mmmm...that was aMAZing..." In other words...yes, she did. EDIT: Just read the above post. Never mind.

FINALLY! THE THRILLING CONCLUSION TO "MISS DJ"! Whew...that took A LOT longer than I thought it would (although it would have taken much less time had my hard drive not crashed last summer. I can't say I love the album, and it'll probably be a VERY long time before I listen to it again, but, as tedious and mundane as a lot of it was, I did enjoy it. I just wish they had included the script with the CD... Anyway, my next drama album project is already about half-done, but it's a big secret. You'll all find out at Christmas (and that should tell everyone what I'm currently working on). Once I finish that (next week...? Maybe...?), I'll move on to "Distantly Fading Memories," the Misa album. Some of it's easy, some of it seems very hard, and if I have to listen to it dozens of times like I did "Miss DJ," that piano music is going to drive me crazy... But hey, a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do, right?

I can't find anything, either. Shaloom at Macross Generation, from everything I've read of his, really seems to be on the level...and he also seems to surpass Egan in his knowledge of all things Macross. But yeah, it's weird that there seems to be no documentation of Ohnogi's involvement with Frontier. i just wish I knew which issues of Animage and Out had those SDFM stories...

HOLY SOCKS!!! The Macross F Drama Album news just got...well...better if like listening to them, worse if you want to translate them. I thought it was a two-part thing, but no such luck. 2009.04.08 - Nyan Dra◎ Dra1 The first story is about Alto, Michael, Luca, and Nanase all meeting. There's also apparently something about a school production of "Romeo and Juliet." Three guesses as to which of the cast is forced to play Juliet... The second story happens during episode 10, and features Ranka and Sheryl. The third story is set during episodes 9 to 11, and is about Sheryl training with Michael to be a Valkyrie pilot. And, as mentioned before, the bonus track is Alto and Brera singing "Shao Pai Long." 2009.05.06 - Nyan Dra◎ Dra2 No news yet on what the stories are about, but (again, as mentioned before) the bonus track, dedicated to MisaForgotten, is Michael and Klang singing "Runner." 2009.06.03 - Nyan Dra◎ Dra3 Bonus track: Ozma and Bobby singing "Totsugeki Loveheart" (naturally.) 2009.07.08 - Nyan Dra◎ Dra4 Bonus track (dedicated to David Hingtgen): Leon and Grace singing (of all things) "Zero-G Love." (THE HORROR! THE HORROR!) If they make a fifth one, it had BETTER have my long-dreamt of Luca and Nanase version of "SANTI-U"...

Forgive me if this is off-topic, but if you've been following the Ohnogi/Frontier thread, you know that Hiroshi Ohnogi wrote seven Macross short stories for Animage and Out magazines between '86 and '88. Problem is, I can't seem to find which issues they are. Does anyone here have any of them?

Yeah, I agree completely...except about the Odyssey being escapist (Trojan War lit was an early specialty of mine in college). technique is an important part of course, as you say; and one of the things I always liked about anime is that a lot of it is frankly avant garde. Lalah's death in MSG, a good portion of Flashback 2012, countless scenes in Evangelion, ALL of Lum the Forever...there's a lot of very innovative film work in anime, but I don't see much in Frontier, beyond the very well-done 3D/2D combination, and the way that some times in the show, the opening scene of the episode would actually fit in near the end of the episode ("Friendly Fire" did this especially well, I thought). What WAS truly innovative, I thought, was the use of every conceivable death flag for Ozma in episode 17, all to come to...nothing. Not only does it take courage for the creators to take a route like that, but it also shows trust in the audience and an appealing sense of playfulness. That trust in the audience, and the gusto with which they subverted expectations, is the main thing that makes me see the intended audience of Frontier as being older than that of your average giant-robot-toy-commercial anime. It was definitely made for people who know their Macross, and especially for those who know their anime tropes. Which cuts out the young'uns.

Wow, that was fast. I think one of the problems is that there are very few movies or (especially) TV series aimed at adults...we kind of forget what they look like. Sex and violence for its own sake seems more adolescent to me, as does nearly every Hollywood movie made in the last twenty or thirty years. Now, Frontier's late-night time slot argues for an older intended audience. But the high-school aged cast argues for a younger intended audience. But for me (and of course, this is only MY yardstick), what really pushes an artistic work into the realm of "intended for adults" is a focus on psychological realism, rather than on plot or entertainment value. If the work presents people who are more real than the people you meet every day, it will succeed as a mature work of art, regardless of other factors (things like plot tend to fall into place once you have real, breathing characters). I don't know of any anime that focuses solely on character ("Grave of the Fireflies," maybe...), but that isn't surprising. That isn't why people watch anime. Most people want some kind of escapism, and that's fine. Ultimately, Frontier tells a story of adventure and derring-do, and tells it in a concise way. There's some experimental work in it, but not much. It may be meant for the 25 to 50 crowd, but I think it primarily appeals to the high school kid in all of them. I want to stress that I'm not making a value judgment here. I loved Frontier, and I'll probably go on loving it. But it speaks directly to my inner urchin, and HE'S the one that tells me how great it is.

I'm not sure how, really. They get a cut from ADV's SDFM set, I'm sure; they're still selling the AnimEigo set. They have the Toynami Masterpiece Editions. But I don't think they get a cut from Manga's MII or M+ releases, and they're CERTAINLY not getting a cut from import toys, models, books, CDs, and DVDs. So no, they're not making much of their own stuff, and I'm sure they're making a bit of money from the SDFM TV series, but they're not making as much as they could be making, based on how much Macross is actually out there. Mostly, I think they're just making damn sure that nobody ELSE is profiting off of Macross in the U.S.

To be honest, It interests me more, too, but I don't really want to hijack the thread, either. I dunno. Topics about how Frontiers sucks, or how character X from Frontier is useless can only go so far before they run out of steam, IMO...but that's just me.

The difficulty in explaining everything is that most of the problem lies with contracts that nobody outside of the respective parties has seen, so any time someone posts what they know (or think they know) about it, there's a lot of speculation attached. Here are the undisputed facts, although I'm not too sure of the dates. In the '80s, Harmony Gold bought the rights to SDFM from Tatsunoko. In the early '90s, U.S. Renditions brought out Macross II, Streamline brought out the Robotech Perfect Collection, and Manga Ent. brought out Macross Plus. No legal rumblings were heard. In the late 90's, HG sent cease and desist orders to some vendors selling Macross merchandise in the U.S. and squashed plans to release Macross Plus toys in the U.S. as well. And Big West and Tatsunoko had their big legal fight over ownership of SDFM, which lasted a while. In 1999, AnimEigo released the SDFM DVD Box Set, using masters provided to them by HG. In the early 2000s, the BW/Tats lawsuit ended. Big West ended up with the rights to the designs, story, concepts, and characters; Tatsunoko ended up with the rights to the actual film of the TV show. TokyoPop annouced they would be working with HG to bring over Macross 7 Trash, but that failed to materialize. HG trademarked the name Macross in the U.S. (and perhaps in other places as well). Since 1995 (with the Macross Plus Movie), no new Macross title has been released in the U.S. And there are apparently no plans to release Frontier. HG has gone on record saying they would be happy to release them. And that's it. Everything else is assumption and inference.

We've gone rather far afield from the topic, so suffice to say here that I think we're talking at cross-purposes. You, March, and I probably all have very different ideas of what a mature story is, but I think we can all agree than Frontier can be enjoyed by many people, regardless of age. As for La Dolce Vita not being mainstream...I never said it was. It's just my example of a movie which can't be easily assimilated by all ages. (Anyway, according to Wikipedia, the New York Times called it "one of the most widely seen and acclaimed European movies of the 1960s." "Widely seen," no genre trappings, just the story of a guy meeting famous people and going to parties...what could be more mainstream than that?) Anyway, if you want to continue this discussion, maybe we should move it over to the Frontier Talkback thread.

Yeah, I'd agree with that. I think a lot of the strenuous arguing for anime's depth back in the day was caused by our inability to get anything subbed or dubbed. Watching stuff raw (as we had to back then) creates a sense that there is more going on than we can know, so that even something like "Hokuto no Ken" could seem somehow philosophical. We (or at least, I) added in what we (I) thought the characters should be saying, which often was more interesting than what they were ACTUALLY saying. You still see that sometimes, where someone will have a page of text and say, "Please translate this! I'm sure it's very important!" only to find that there's nothing terribly important on it. As for anime often belonging to "lesser" genres, I think that's part of the nature of the medium. If the Japanese film industry had had the money to make live-action extravaganzas in the '70s and '80s, we wouldn't have seen such an explosion in anime. The point of cartoons is to show things that can't be portrayed in live-action. Or sometimes in VERY rare occasions (like "I Can Hear the Sea" or "Only Yesterday"), making the movie animated adds a charm that might otherwise be missing. But generally, making an animated movie means having an almost limitless special effects budget, and who WOULDN'T want to exploit that?