Gubaba

I saw something about that the other day, and it weirds me out. Last October, Shaloom said there was an exclusive cell-phone only Macross radio show, and suddenly, now there is. Can he see the future? Should we write to Macross Ace and DEMAND that he write stories about Max and Milia, and Minmay trying to give an autographed record to Hikaru?

Well, one of the things that I think is funny about it is the fact that Macross Generation apparently demands that people credit them if they post their news elsewhere. If it hadn't been for that, we would've had NO idea who was responsible for this. As it is, the blame falls on one guy and one guy alone. I still don't feel comfortable calling it a hoax, or Shaloom a liar...but I really can't see any other options. That said, Tak at AnimeSuki swears up and down that he saw a Japanese source that talked about Ohnogi oining the Frontier writing staff, but he can't seem to find it anywhere.

I should add that, until I get my hands on a good scan of the Famitsu Interview, this is all I have. I don't think I've conclusively disproven anything, but I hope I've shown that the information we've received from Shaloom is, at best, not error-free. And the onus should be on him to provide some evidence...either scans of the Ohnogi stories, or mp3s of the radio interview...hell, even a Japanese website listing them as existing would be a good start. EDIT: I've been checking Macross Generation forums for the last couple of days, and, strangely, there seems to be no mention of any of this yet...

You should hear him try to pronounce "Hikaru Ichijo." Cultural sensitivity ain't the guy's strong spot. Hell, he thinks that Robotech is "Americana."

Introduction Part One: Liner Notes and "Novels" Part Two: "Bobby" "interviews" "Ohnogi" The later parts of the liner notes are given to radio interviews of Ohnogi. These interviews are conducted by voice actor Kenta Miyake in the character of Bobby Margot. As such, Bobby is kind of playing the situation for laughs, while Ohnogi is trying to stay serious. But reading them is a weird experience, because Ohnogi, while professing a lot of repsect for Kawamori, also shows him in a very bad light...indecisive, insecure, and continually at odds with the staff, primarily over the issue of Ranka and Sheryl. He seems out of touch with what the staff and Ohnogi want to do, which is also, according to both Ohnogi and Bobby, what the fans want to see. Ohnogi is presented as the man who saved Frontier, and Kawamori is presented as the man who almost ruined it. The interviews begin with this introduction from Shaloom: The inclusion of Hiroshi Ohnogi to the staff of Macross Frontier caused furor in various Japanese forums, and actor Kenta Miyake (Bobby Margo) has invited him to the Macross Radio program for an interview. The program was broadcast on the Radio MBS, August 9, 2008. Unfortunately, this is also where the problems begin. What furor? And what Macross Radio program? For the furor among Japanese fans, the most likely place to go would be the official Frontier BBS. Here is the google search for the site and the name "Ohnogi." http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&saf...mp;oq=&aqi= As you can see, there are only two hits, neither of them having anything to do with Ohnogi writing Frontier. It's harder, of course, to find anything by searching 2chan, but after a few months of searching the relevant boards, I've found nothing. If someone else can find something, I'll be happy to accept it. As for the "Macross Radio Show" which Shaloom states as being on MBS, this cannot be the official Macross Radio show, because all of the episodes are available for download on nicosound, and not one of them contains Bobby interviewing anyone . Even if you don't know or understand Japanese, Bobby's voice is HIGHLY distinctive, and he is nowhere present on the episodes made during Frontier's run (he was, however, present on RADIO MACROSS, the radio show building up to the premiere of Frontier...but that would've been before Ohnogi was brought on board). When asked about this, Shaloom said that he was in Japan for most of Frontier's run, and that there was a service whereby for 500 yen (about five U.S. dollars), one could download special radio shows to one's cell phone, and listen to them as many times as one liked, which is how he managed to do a translation of the interviews. He also said it was a different radio program than the one listed elsewhere. However, neither the Macross F website nor Japanese Wikipedia show any radio show other than the main one (which, admittedly, has gone through several name changes), which is hosted by the voice actors for Alto, Michael, and Ranka, with occasional guest appearances by other voice actors (but no staff, so far). So we're left with a downloadable radio show, of which no recordings exist on the web, that was not promoted on the official website, and does not appear to be known by anyone except Shaloom. By the way, here's the google search for "Macross F," "Ohnogi," "Bobby," and "Interview": http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&saf...mp;oq=&aqi= Nine hits. None of which is relevant. Much of the information from these interviews is unverifiable, about conversations between Kawamori and Ohnogi, plans for events and character developments that were ultimately abandoned, but there are several factual errors that creep into the interviews. I'll confine myself to the two that I think are most puzzling. First, this bit: Bobby: I heard you had a very long meeting with Kawamori-sama about the opening [Lion]. Ohnogi: Kawamori told me that episode 18 would be completely done with my script. This episode had also been scheduled for the premiere of the new opening, strangely named "Lion". Do I mentioned that is how I think of Sheryl? Mrs Yoko Kanno and I had worked in Macross Plus so Kawamori and I joined immediately to work the opening concept. Kawamori wanted to send a "preview" to what they will see in subsequent episodes. There is a lot of symbolism of what will happen, so do not miss it and be observers. What's so strange about this is that Ohnogi DIDN'T work on Macross Plus, and I doubt he could have been mistaken and thought he did. The second quotation was originally one of my favorite bits of the interviews. Since I still like it, I'll quote it in full: HO: Indeed. Actually, it is more obvious for the veteran fans. It is a homenage to the goodbye scene between Hikaru Ichijyo and Minmay in the episode “Aiwa Nagareru”. It is something I wanted to do. B: Tell us, Hiroshi-kun! Please! HO: Well, the original scene, which you surely remember, was written by my teacher Tsukehiro Tomita-sama y splendidly directed by my mentor and almost-father of everyone of us at Studio Nue: Noburo Ishiguro-sama. I remember that when I was at university and director Kawamori insisted on me coming to the studio and helping them, because they needed script writers, I arrived just when Tomita-sama gave this booklet to post-production and he would go on to write DYRL. I remember that I couldn´t stop reading this scene, I was fascinated by the timing, the dialogue, the emotions, the surroundings. I thought that so many things in my heart would not be well drawn and was surprised again when we saw the finished episode in the studio. I was moved very, very much by this scene. The image surpassed my imagination and this was done by Ishiguro-sama. I remember that then every night, for three months, I wrote and re-wrote again this scene, ripped up the papers and wrote it once more. With other characters, with me and my wife, me and my muses, characters of other series on which I was working on. And finally I wrote a mini-script with the names kept in blank and stashed this away for years. B: Names kept in blank? HO: Indeed. I didn´t know which characters I would use in that scene. I didn´t even know if I´d use it for another series which wasn´t Macross. When in pre-production Kawamori told me about his idea that Sheryl would go to Alto and confess to him, my mini-script came to my mind and I asked him for two hours time. I went to my house and went to my closet and searched for the sheets. I thought it would be a good homenage. Even while it took me more than two hours, I could not find the box in which I kept them( laughter ). B: So Sheryl would confess herself? I don´t believe it! HO: I couldn´t believe it either! B: I can imagine the angry face of the director when you told him ( voice of angry Bobby ) “One moment! Sheryl and Alto will do the scene this way!” HO: It wasn´t exactly like that ( nervous laughter ). Director Kawamori was very interested in seeing what I had in mind. When I read the script to him, which reflects dialogues of a man and a woman which love each other, but do not want to say it, knowing that they could die in the coming battle, the only thing Kawamori told me was “You are defining the triangle!”. We then had a very long debate. He desired to reserve things for himself for the final episode. But then I told him “Tomita-san wrote Aiwa Nagareru badly? Hikaru kisses Minmay with much passion, this did not define the finale in Macross. The series needs a classic moment which the fans will remember in 25 years, like Tomita-sama and Ishiguro-sama did it, risking it all for a kiss on screen.” B: And what did the director say to this? HO: He was at the point of saying something, but then stopped and kept thinking. He asked me to leave him alone. So I went out of his office and went home to wait for his answer, as it was already very late. I remember that Risa Ebata sent me an email this night, that director Kawamori didn´t get out of the studio until the next day, closed off in his office. Erasing and writing things. I told her not to worry and that what the director would decide, would be the best for the series. The next day I got a message on my cellphone from Kawamori : “You are right, it will be a fantastic scene”. And almost immediately, I received an email from Ebata-san, saying “I am so happy, I am crying, my pretty baby finally got her first kiss of love, thank you!” I suppose she was reading the script at the time ( laughter ). I understand that she alone made the animation of Alto and Sheryl, because she wasn’t disposed to leave to others the kiss of her “pretty baby”. I think she is Sheryl-fan number one! ( laughter ). And I believe it came out very well, I am very satisfied how it appeared in the episode. It's a great story, isn't it? It has drama, human interest, the writer standing up against the director for something he believes in, and succeeds, giving both the staff and the fans exactly what they want. But there's one huge, gaping problem with it: Tomita didn't write "Ai wa Nagareru." Kenichi Matsuzaki did. Now, again, I suppose Ohnogi could have made a mistake here, but it seems incredible that he would remember so much in such detail, but forget who wrote the script that he loved so much. Of course, it also seems incredible that Shaloom would make that same mistake, since in every Macross book I've checked (Perfect Memory, Macross Grafitti, My Fair Minmay) and on Japanese Wikipedia, Matsuzaki is credited for the episode. Tomita did write many episodes (and co-wrote DYRL), but he didn't do that one. It's also worth noting that none of books about Frontier mention anything about Ohnogi working the show (besides writing the script for Macross Zero, some portions of which were used in episode 10). I'll get into 2059: Memories in part three, because it's more pertinent there, but neither it, nor the Official Fan Book, nor the liner notes for Volume Nine of the DVDs (which contain several long staff interviews) say anything about him. Some Macross World members have told me that he didn't want credit, and so kept his name out of the staff list, but would someone who didn't want credit go on an (admittedly impossible-to-find) radio show and claim credit? And if he was so vital to the production, why do none of the staff talk about his contributions? Indeed, some of them would be stealing credit from him, since Yoshino, Kikuchi, and Kawamori all talk about things that Ohnogi reportedly says that HE brought to the table. Part Three: The Famitsu Interview Conclusion

Who says I'm not on it right now?

Who knows? And who can say he knows?

All right, but it won't be very funny. (Okay...overthinking mode engaged. The song is "Cinderella," which is all about transient, fleeting happiness...and yet the song sounds almost mournful. I think the record represents Minmay's career, and the clown doll is how she views herself, or how she thinks other people view her. But she feels trapped, hence the handcuffs. See? easy.)

But what about the eternal mystery of the clown doll and the handcuffs spinning on the record player? We could debate ENDLESSLY and never get to the true meaning of the symbolism there!

Okay...I just sent the email off the Satelight. It's going to the webmaster, so I don't know how long it will take to get someone who actually knows about the production details to listen. Essentially, I thanked them for making Macross F, but that there was rumor going around that Ohnogi had written episodes 18~24. I said that I couldn't find any evidence for this, and thought it wasn't true, but thought I'd ask anyway. I also included a link to the relevant post at Animesuki, so that they could read the English version of the first Bobby/Ohnogi interview. I'll let you all know as soon as I get a response. Likewise, much earlier this week, I sent off an email to Shaloom asking him about the inconsistencies between the official books and his liner notes. Still waiting for an answer.

I like it a lot, but that's probably because I saw it when it was new. There was no "special edition" of DYRL yet, and subs were a long way off. As such, FB2012 was all eye-candy, and no dialogue scenes that I couldn't understand. It was also a good thing to watch when I needed a quick Macross fix. As such, I've probably watched it more than any other Macross release. And I still think the editing is awesome. "Zero G Love" is especially great. I love the super-quick Macross transformation and Britai's eye twitch. The ending, of course, is also quite wonderful. And the characters have never looked better.

That's acceptable. As long as it's highly focused.

Yet another reason why we need a good complete scan of Famitsu article. It's Famitsu #1035, from Oct. 2008. Please, somebody! Find it!

I was guessing it would've been around there as well...but that would've been a pretty lame death if it had happened that way. The way it ended up, at least he went out with serious style...

That would probably take out most of Los Angeles if it happened...including my house.

I like Bauhaus a lot (and even hung out with David J one evening...nice guy), but I wouldn't say that they were better than Bowie and his band at the time. I doubt Mick Ronson could've pulled off some of the stuff that Daniel Ash did, but likewise, I doubt Daniel Ash could've pulled off a lot of Ronson's riffs. As for Bowie and Peter Murphy's vocal stylings, it's pretty much apples and oranges. Bowie has more range, though, I think. And I think he's a far better lyricist. (Musically, "In the Flat Field" is my favorite Bauhaus album, but some of the lyrics really make me cringe...) But saying that I think Bauhaus isn't quite as good as Bowie isn't any slag on them in my book. Bowie is really in the top of top five for me, so it's kind of like saying that a very good movie isn't quite as good as Fellini at his best. It's still a high compliment even to be considered worthy of comparison.

Ziggy Stardust is an easy song to play, but it's really difficult to play well. Bauhaus played it very well indeed, but they don't top Bowie's version in my opinion. Of course, a lot of that is due to the fact that if I hear Ziggy Stardust, and it DOESN'T immediately zoom into Suffragette City, it feels like half the song's been cut off. I will say that I like Bauhaus's version of Telegram Sam better than T.Rex's, and I like T.Rex's A LOT.

I love Icelandic sagas...There's a really great huge paperback that got about ten or so all bound together (put out by Penguin, I believe) and it's all highly worth reading. "I laughed, I cried, it was much better than Beowulf."

He won't. He doesn't like Macross. One of my favorite early bits from him (and I think it may have been from the "Respont" to Destroy All Pocasts that VF5SS mentioned above) where we was saying that Robotech: The Untold Story was MUCH better than DYRL, because (as he put it) DYRL "looks really, really rough."

Did Kawamori really make that remark? The Yoshino interview seems to indicate that the unresolved love triangle was all his (Yoshino's) doing, and that Kawamori was against it initially. EDIT: Ha! Found a listing for this supposed comment of Kawamori's: http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:HFQQdN...=clnk&gl=us And guess where it's supposed to be from? FAMITSU! I bet Kawamori never said it. FURTHER EDIT: Actually, looking at the scan of the interview, part of it gets cut off, but he DOES say that some animals are polygamous. Is that an endorsement of polygamy? I don't know.

You'll take Peter Schiling over Bowie? Blasphemer!

No, it IS about Ohnogi being a credited writer. The homages to his supposed "novels" are just the set-up. Of course, he isn't credited anywhere, which should be enough for most people... It's not so much the Sheryl-fan mentality that bothers me, it's the presentation of Kawamori as a dithering, out-of-touch jerk who cares about only Ranka and nothing else. So that AnimeSuki, for example, you have people already calling for Kawamori's head on a platter because Ohnogi's not working on the movie.

You may, but you'd look a little foolish for doing so, since I already said this in the first post:

Introduction Part One: Liner Notes and "Novels" We didn't really hear much more until Shaloom of Macross Generation starting compiling his "liner notes" for the FWF-MG fansubs of the series. They made no pretense to being official documents, but rather a massive collection of everything Shaloom had read, heard, or noticed in the show. (What caught MY attention about them was the existence of SDFM "novels" and short stories about which I had never heard. Since I was in the "collection stage" of my Complete Macross Translation Project, to find out about an unknown wealth of material was simultaneously enthralling and disheartening. Enthralling because there was more out there, disheartening because it meant a lot more work for me.) The entire body of notes (in English) is online at http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php...722#post2228722 and it goes on for quite a couple of dozen pages. At the time of this writing, there are no notes for Episode 25. I'll only quote the relevant portions (and a couple of oddities). Most of the notes for the first clutch of episodes are completely accurate, except for some unverified stuff (show of hands, please. Who here has played Macross Love Stories and gotten to the really difficult-to-find secret ending involving panty-chasing? Anyone? Anyone? I thought as much). It's when we get to the middle episodes that the questionable stuff starts showing up, starting with episode 10: - When the director of the film take Rankas hand and she steps up the stairs, it is an homenage [sic] to a scene in the Super Dimension Fortress Macross novels, written by Sukehiro Tomita. - In said novels, the director of the film Shao Pai Long also takes the hand of Minmay and says the same lines as the director in Macross Frontier. Tomita makes an analogy to the steps of Minmay "climbing the steps of fame". The cinema audience then gives thunderous applause and Hikaru Ichijo finalizes the chapter by saying "Congratulations, Minmay". Now, there are no Macross "novels" by Tomita. He wrote a story in "Dreaming Prelude: My Fair Minmay," but that one's about the Miss Macross Contest. There is only one Macross novel which covers Shao Pai Long, and it's by Toshiki Inoue (he wrote the three-volume novelization of SDFM. "Shao Pai Long" appears in volume three). However, no scene like the one described above appears in the book. The one that really frosts me is this, from Episode 11: - The scene with Ranka and her cookies seeing the fold in the distance makes reference to a short story. It is in the collection of shorts "Studio Nue Entertainment Bible", called "Today I wanted to give you...." In it, Minmay wanted to give Hikaru an autographed record of hers, for his birthday, but Hikaru has to escort Misa back to earth and can´t go on the date with Minmay. He sends Max Jenius in his stead. It frosts me because I sought out and bought both volumes of the Studio Nue Entertainment Bibles (not really expensive, but not cheap, either), and the story isn't in either of them. In fact, there are NO stories contained the books...just a bunch of magazine columns reprinted at the end of Volume 2. After this, everything goes REALLY crazy: From Episode 13: - Sheryls line "You stop that guy, even if it kills you" is a reference to the Macross TV series novels, written by Hiroshi Ohnogi. It is referent to a dialogue Misa has with Hikaru, while they are escaping Bodolzas fortress. - Michaels line ( which was translated differently by the guys in the Macross Generation forum than most translations... according to them it says "She is a good woman, and you are important to her" ) is also a line Max Jenius uttered, when Hikaru and him go to the Arcade Center to have some fun. This is, again, the TV series novels, written by Ohnogi. From Episode 14: - The line of Elmo "It's the day where the history of the whole galaxy will change" is a reference to the novels written by Ohnogi ( I´ll keep the reference this short for the future ), where the manager of Lynn Minmay says the same previous to the first showing of Shao Pai Long. - The line of Ranka to Ozma "If you are going to regret it, then give it your all and be successful" is a reference to dialogue between Isamu Dyson and Myung Fang Lone in the Macross Plus novel, written by Ohnogi, when he "borrows" the just built plane of Guld Bowman and Myung tells him not to do it. (I've included the last reference specifically because Ohnogi did NOT work on Macross Plus.) - The damage Island 1 receives from the Vajra and the dead of civilians who are expulsed into space is a reference to the enormous damage the SDF-1 received in the novels by Ohnogi. In said novels, Ohnogi relates that the Zentraedi shots caused much more damage than was shown in the TV series. - The scene where Sheryl asks Alto to not die is reference to the novels by Ohnogi, where Hikaru is going on the offensive to rescue Minmay from Kvamzin. Misa asks him to rescue Minmay but begs him to promise her that he won't die. From Episode 16 - The dialogue of Ram Hoa "1,2,3,4... the new lieutenant is amazing, isn´t he?" is a reference to Claudia LaSalle mocking Misa Hayase about the recent promotion of Hikaru to first lieutenant, in the novels by Ohnogi. From Episode 18: - Operation “Cinderellas Horn” is a reference to operation “Queen’s Horn”, which is an military emergency operation in Macross City for an Zentraedi Attack. This plan is commented upon by Admiral Global to Misa Hayase, in case that Kvamzin Kravsheera manages to conquer Macross City, to detonate the whole city to overload the pin point barrier of the SDF-1 and therefore evaporate the city. This is from the novels by Ohnogi. - The scene of Sheryl crying in the rain, while Ranka is shown on the screen at her press conference is a reference to a very similar scene of Misa Hayase crying disconsolatedly in the rain, while on holographic screens Minmay is giving a press conference. This is from the novels by Ohnogi. (Not really relevant to this part of the discussion, but still rather interesting, are these two notes; the first from Episode 16, the second from Episode 18: - The "Call up Monster Girl" design on the König Monster was designed by Risa Ebata, solicited by Kawamori. - The nose art of “Call Up Monster Girl” is a piece of art which Ohnogi asked from Risa Ebata for the König Monster.) But there is a lot of talk throughout the notes about the "novels" of Ohnogi. Naturally, these were what I was most interested in. I asked Magnuskn (who, by the way, is a stand-up guy and should in no way be blamed for this mess) to ask Shaloom about them for me. He responded quite quickly, translating an oddly defensive missive by Shaloom about how MacrossWorld and the Compendium are incomplete, and have no information about the Sky Angels doujinshi by the Macross Attack Team or the seven "novels" of Ohnogi. Shaloom stressed that the novels are not canonical, and thus would not be of much interest to most Macross fans. So I checked Japanese wikipedia. I checked amazon.co.jp. I checked several Japanese Macross fansites I found. There was nothing about them. I finally asked at Macross.co.jp, where a member informed me that Ohnogi had only written one Macross novel: Misa Hayase - White Reminiscences. I have that one, and it doesn't contain anything that Shaloom talks about (the entire novel is about Misa meeting and falling in love with Riber). (It's worth mentioning here that as far as "official" SDFM novels and stories go, there are a few: Dreaming Prelude~My Fair Minmay by the entire SDFM writing team (1983), The three-volume novelization of SDFM by Toshiki Inoue (1983), Misa Hayase: White Reminiscences (1984) by Hiroshi Ohnogi, and two short stories in Macross Perfect Memory ("The Plundering Fleet" by Kenichi Matsuzaki and "The Lost Two Years" by Kawamori) (1984).) Shaloom often quotes from the stories at length, giving entire scenes, synopses, and dialogue. Some of them, like Max keeping a photo of Milia in his helmet, are rather touching. Always in them, Minmay's dialogue and situations are given to Ranka, Misa's to Sheryl, and Michael is a mix of Max and Focker. Later, bishopcruz approached Shaloom to ask about the "novels." According to the answer he got, they aren't novels at all, but rather short stories, serialized in "magazines like Animage and Out" between 1986 and 1988*, and were never reprinted. Shaloom also mentioned again that they aren't canonical. Bishopcruz asked which issues they were in, and Shaloom replied that they were serialized, so that any issue of the magazines should contain a little bit of a story. Shaloom also said that he himself only had a few of the issues, and had no scanner or any way to upload them. Bishopcruz asked which issues Shaloom owned, and got no response. I asked around at MacrossWorld and found a few people who had issues of Animage from that period. Two said that there were no such stories in them (the third never responded). I also found a website (http://homepage2.nifty.com/out-site/) with detailed contents for every issue of Out ever printed. No mention of any Macross stories, and only one (unconnected) reference to Ohnogi. By this point, I was almost convinced that the stories didn't exist, and that Shaloom was just making the whole thing up. But I really hadn't found out much...Just that the Studio Nue Entertainment Bibles didn't have any stories, and that a couple of people who had a few issues of Animage hadn't seen any Macross stories in them. Also that the Japanese fans had no idea what I was talking about when I asked them. Really, it wasn't much to go on. The Entertainment Bible mix-up could have been just a simple mistake. Ditto Shaloom saying the Ohnogi wrote the Macross Plus novel, when in actuality it was by Keiko Nobumoto, who also wrote the script for Plus. It might be an innocent error on Shaloom's part (but more about that later). Not being able to find something is of course not the same as proving it doesn't exist, but it should put the burden of proof onto Shaloom to provide some evidence, since he seems to be the only person with access to this material. By the way, if any Macrossworld members DO have any of these stories, please let me know. I'd love to have confirmation here one way or another, and if they do exist, I would really love to translate them. * This doesn't fit very well with other portions of the notes. Again, when asked, Shaloom said the stories were published between 1986 and 1988. but in one of the Ohnogi Radio interviews, Ohnogi says that in Episode 14, "Kawamori put some tributes to the novels of Macross TV Series written in 1983." These would, according to the Episode notes, be his own novels. And yet, Ohnogi himself says in the interview in the back of Misa Hayase: White Reminiscences (again, published in 1984) that it's his first novel. It's possible to harmonize all of this (White Reminiscences was written first in 1983, followed in quick succesion by other novels, which weren't published until much later, or that Ohnogi is simply misremembering). But it's just one of many such mistakes. Part Two: The Radio Interviews Part Three: The Famitsu Interview Conclusion

Well...the M7 reference IS the most obvious one. Micro Cosmos is a little more subtle, since "Shao Pai Long" isn't based on any part of the Macross backstory. Me, I'm just surprised that they originally planned to kill Michael off before episode 13.