Gubaba

And THAT'S why people hate Basara! Riddle solved!

Good point. And I've heard the thing about the rights, too. I still stay the answer is for someone from here to place an ad in Variety (or something like that) just saying, "COMING SOON ON DVD: Super Dimension Fortress Macross - Do You Remember Love." We'd find out who owns the rights pretty damn quick, I think. (This, by the way, is what the producers of Friday the 13th did in order to find out if anyone else had the rights to that title.)

But he only said "Protodeviln" after Sivil showed up, IIRC...

And THAT'S why people hate Ranka! Riddle solved!

Or, he could've recognized them because they were modified VF-14s...

The problem with the slapping is that I'm pretty certain it was simply an homage to DYRL, when Hikaru slaps Minmay. AS AN HOMAGE, I found it rather satisfying (as in "Wow! I wasn't expecting them to reference THAT scene!"), but as part of the story...well, I guess I can understand why they threw it in, but I don't think the story would've suffered if they'd left it out. Still, imagine the furor if they'd had Alto slap either girl. That may have been okay in the Japan of 1984, but I think it would've been reprehensible in 2008.

(First...if you want to quote somebody, just press the little "QUOTE" button in the lower right-hand corner...it will make it easier to tell when someone else's post ends and yours begins.) I dunno...a lot of people have been throwing around the idea of Robotech getting away from its roots in Macross, Southern Cross, and Mospeada. My problem with that idea is...well, if they did that, wouldn't it just be something new that merely had the Robotech NAME attached to it? "This has nothing to do with Robotech, but we're calling it Robotech so you'll think it does," in other words. And it's not like Robotech is a household name that will bring in droves of people. Why not just make something new, CALL it something new, and forget about Robotech entirely? HG has had twenty-five years in which to turn Robotech into a household name. The original series aired on many, many TV stations around the world, and gathered a lot of fans at that time...most of whom have abandoned it. And sure, every once in a whle, on an anime forum, you'll see someone saying, "I just watched Robotech for the first time! I just finished the Macross Saga, and it was awesome! Can't wait to start the Masters!" And then they usually come back disappointed, and start asking what the deal is with this "Macross Frontier" they've been hearing so much about. In fact, I'll go further: Whatever you think of it, there's no denying that Macross F has been a SENSATION, and I think a lot of people hear vaguely about some association with some show named Robotech...and Robotech DVDs are cheap and easy to come by, so they pick it up thinking it's a good introduction (I of course don't know for sure this is true, it's just my theory, based on the fact that I've seen MANY more people posting about picking up Robotech in late 2008/early 2009 than I have at any time before. Feel free to disagree if you wish). If that's the case, then all the Robotech fans who say that Macross wouldn't be popular in the west if it weren't for Robotech now should turn around and admit that Robotech wouldn't be picking up new fans if it weren't for Macross. Which makes HG no better than, say, The Asylum (purveyors of such fine entertainment as "Snakes on a Train," "Transmorphers," "The Day the Earth Stopped," and "Sunday School Musical") in piggy-backing off of a more successful series. Maybe my assessment is going too far...? I'm not sure.

"The Lost Jingle Bells"? That's the Bridge Bunnies.

I was just playing along... And I entirely agree with the rest of your statement.

This is a Japanese company we're talking about...Big West's response was most likely, "Hmmm...we have to think about this," and then they just never got back to Harmony Gold. I wouldn't say the site is better off without him...but I definitely think he's better off without the site.

OH NO! >EXO< is secretly a Robotech spy! And he's infiltrated the highest levels of Macross World! Run, everyone! RUUUUUUUUUNNNNN!!!

You're right, of course. I based my assessment off of arguments that you used to hear A LOT about six or seven years ago (really...go back and look at the Macross 7 topics from the beginning of these boards...generally a couple of people will articulate the point I mentioned). But that argument has been showing up less and less as time has gone on. And usually, if it does come, it comes from someone who watched Robotech recently. loved it, and just now is trying out Macross. So yeah...these days, it's definitely a minority viewpoint.

Shadow Chronicles had next-to-no Macross characters in it, and it STILL sucked wet farts out of dead pigeons.

Judging from past responses, it seems like a lot of people would've liked a drastically reduced emphasis on music, and much more focus on the military. Because, I guess, there are just TOO MANY robot shows about rock bands, and not enough about soldiers.

No, just brown yarn.

You may be on to something...except, well, to put it bluntly, I don't think there WERE any "good parts." The characters were changed, both by the writers' choice and by the necessities of plot. Oh sure, there's a character named "Minmay," but it's not the same Minmay that I loved in DYRL or (when I saw it much later) the original Macross. It's not the Minmay I love in "Dreaming Prelude~My Fair Minmay." Hell, it's wasn't even the Minmay that annoyed the crap out of me in Robotech. It was someone else. Someone else with Minmay's name. Same with all the "Macross Saga" characters that showed up. Macek, I think, never really had a grasp on a number of the characters from Macross, as so he changed them as much as he could, given the confines of working with the pre-existing animation. But then, when he plotted out the Sentinels, I think he lost even the tenunous grasp he had on the characters while working on the first series. They didn't talk the same, they didn't act the same. And THAT is, I think, what annoyed me. If I had to have "Rick" and "Lisa" instead of Hikaru and Misa, well, I didn't like it, but I could live with it. But I didn't even get Rick and Lisa, I got two flat cardboard cut-outs with the names "Rick" and "Lisa" pasted on them. Now I know how the audience in that last Fire Bomber concert in Dynamite 7 felt...

I think that's somewhat true. Of course, a lot of Macross merchandise is being bought by people outside of Japan. DVD sales might be smaller, but toys, models, artbooks, CDs...all of these are being exported. But remember, Robotech is still big in Latin America and China (although I've heard that Macross Frontier has loosened Robotech's grip on China...not sure if it's true, though). The thing is...there is simply MUCH more Macross merchandise than there is Robotech. What does Robotech have? A smallish collection of toys...a CD...too many DVDs...some coffee mugs and things of that nature...and that's it. Even the books and comics are no longer being printed (except, I'd guess, Art of the Shadow Chronicles). By sheer VOLUME, Macross is at an advantage. And, as you suggest, the internet makes it easier for anyone anywhere to buy this merchandise.

Mmm...that's not entirely true. Tatsunoko worked on DYRL as well ( http://www.tatsunoko.co.jp/works/index.html Look at the bottom of the page, under "MOVIE"), so Big West isn't avoiding anything by using DYRL designs. Big West and Studio Nue own all the designs, so they can do whatever they want with them. I have to admit, though...I just don't understand why people worry about this and why the issue seems so vitally important. Neither the TV series nor the movie "happened." It's all fiction, so why sweat the small stuff?

Really? When was that, and what happened?

And...nobody is surprised. As I said before, I think too many egos got involved. Hell, for a while there it looked like everyone was cheering on their favorite football team rather than talking about a couple of lawsuits. Again, I don't think any of this really matters. Yes, it's annoying to read Memo's posts as he natters on about stuff he doesn't understand. Yes, it's frustrating to see people who know what they're talking about get quashed by mods. But ultimately, it makes no difference. If every Robotech fan in the world believed HG has all the rights to Macross, it wouldn't make it so. So let it be. Let them be bullies, let them lock threads and ban people. Let the site run itself into the ground. As long as the RT fans don't come here trying to turn Macross World into Robotech.com 2.0, why should we care what they do in their own playground?

You got further than I did in the series...I read the main twelve novels, the five Sentinels novels, and The End of the Circle. By the Sentinels, I was really reading them more out of a sense of duty than for any kind of pleasure. As such, I remember nearly nothing about the Sentinels books (except thinking that having mecha that looked like twisted version of Rick and Lisa was a pretty stupid idea) and The End of the Circle (except thinking that Minmay and Rem getting caught in a time loop was a pretty stupid idea). I do remember getting impatient and annoyed with the books...I just can't remember WHY. And it's funny...my memory is usually pretty good, but for all the dicussion about Lazlo Zand and his connection with Dana, or the SDF-1's fold drive reappearing, or the Shapings of Protoculture...none of it is ringing any bells. Hell, I can't even remember why I even picked up the first Sentinels book, since I was well over my interest in Robotech at that point. Must have been the same reason that I kept picking up books by Piers Anthony, even though I knew I would hate them before I finished...

Episode 25...Ranka psychically bitchslapped Sheryl. But since it all happened in "communal mental fold space," I'm not sure if Sheryl physically felt it... It's a good question. There are certainly a number of peope who REALLY hate Ranka, and are quite vocal about it. But, as you say, a lot of it may be due to love of Sheryl...since it seems like ANYTHING Ranka does, they'll cast it in the most negative light possible and run with that interpretation, to the point where recently, when the picture of the chibi versions of Ranka, Sheryl, and Klan appeared, a number of people complained that Ranka looked about 8...despite the fact that that is the ENTIRE POINT of chibi versions. So I'm sure that they'll tell you that they had Ranka because of the choices she made (and because she has small breats...that seems to crop up a lot as a criticism), but I suspect that it's really because they think she's trying to break up the REAL love story in Frontier. If Klan (or Nanase, or Cathy, or the bridge bunnies) had tried to shove Sheryl aside, they'd probably hate her just as much.

Is that the judge of a good protagonist? How many people they kill? 'Cause then Bodolzaa is the greatest hero of all.

I agree. I got to see the Escaflowne movie on a big screen and it was great. Not at all what I was expecting, and nowhere near as satisfying as the TV show, but still a very good film.

And (I hasten to repeat) it was in the Macross F novelization, which may not be canonical.