Final Vegeta

Gundam doesn't have the same mecha designers for all series. Okawara is supposed to do supervision, like Tomino is supposed to do supervision of every Gundam story. AU series surely seem to recicle the same designs unlike UC designs which all have something different from each other. Anyway, I think Izubuchi is the best mecha designer after Kawamori, while I despise Katoki and, to a certain extent, even Nagano style. FV

It may be me, but actually, I think that was simply toon shaded CG I think the evidence is that when Roy's VF-0 entered the scene the shading affected even him. FV

It is kinda humorous, at the end, like the arguements between Escaflowne and Cowboy Bebop. Yes, Gundam was ispirational to Macross creators, but actually Macross creators made Gundam and they made even Yamato, which started the adult storytelling. It was Studio Nue the ones who wrote scientific references for the first Gundam (yes, Studio Nue invented Minovsky particles). It was Studio Nue the ones who wrote the script for the first Gundam. It was Itano Ichiro the one who animated the fights with the Gouf and the final battles. The extent of how much Studio Nue was influent for Gundam may be in this link: http://www.ex.org/4.1/33-book_g2.html Nevertheless, the best essay in the first issue is easily Iizuka Masao's recollections on GUNDAM's genesis (as told to Mizutani Tatsuhiko). Ever wonder how Sunrise discovered Robert Heinlein's STARSHIP TROOPERS novel and his influential powered suits? The book was brought to the attention of Sunrise's head by a certain science-fiction fan named Takachiho Haruka—co-founder of Studio Nue and author of CRUSHER JOE and DIRTY PAIR. I don't know if Studio Nue worked in other Gundams, though, but I doubt it. Later Gundams AFAIK seem to exploit same old Studio Nue ideas (bits, I-field barrier, Minovsky craft...) with little innovations in the physics department, while Z Gundam seems to directly recicle some Macross ideas like transformation for atmospheric re-entry (while in the Gundam movies I heard there was a coolant system), reconnaissance mechas and even protector armor (the last two started as original variations model line, and then Gundam kept them). In your site (which by the way I find really useful for gathering information on mechas) I see listed between Z Gundam mechas even a "XB-70 Valkyrie", so I suppose Z Gundam was Gundam turn for paying homages. In my country Gundam hasn't been licensed (well, it seems that now it is. They should air RX-78, Z and ZZ the next year). I watched only the first series (well, they also aired Gundam Wing which is sold as a stand alone series, but I prefer to forget that), with an awful dub, and with some episodes missing. I must say that I liked it, and I can recommend it, but from a political point of view Gundam is the enemy I think that if there wasn't Gundam, Studio Nue may still had made some stories inspired by Starship Troopers. The real deal was only getting the mecha approved by the sponsors. Powered suits were even Gundam's first idea, but sponsors didn't like a mecha less tall than a six store building. By the way, in his manga Great Mazinger got mass produced by the enemies. I think this is actually the first mass produced robot. And Mazinger's enemies were humans, Dr. Hell was supposed to be german, despite name and appearance (I've heard in the manga he financed himself exploiting some African states). There IS a difference between shows that started selling merchandising and shows that ended up selling merchandising. Surprisingly for a mecha franchise, Macross as a whole is the latter. Well, not that surprisingly: mechas without big energy beams don't seem to sell that much. Even Giant Robo was not that commercial kind of anime. And if you say that Macross 7's point was to show off cool Valkyries, I must read again your reviews SDF Macross itself got several remarks from the toy makers when Kawamori insisted with the detatching legs for the VF-1. Valkyries designs are certainly not made to ease toy makers' life (well, later Valkyries didn't have detatchable legs anymore If the VF-1 will really show up in Zero, I think it may now have Yamato-style transformation ). Despite Macross Zero was aimed to mecha fans (as opposed to Macross 7, which was aimed to character fans), transformable M0 toys are still nowhere to be found after nearly a year. Comparing it to how much different Gundams are avalaible is simply unproposable. Now that I come to think about it, more kits were born from Macross videogames rather that from Macross series But Gundam sold even designs that weren't even in games So, many can talk about how Gundam was more revolutionary than Macross, but Macross was nowhere near as a toy seller franchise as Gundam Anyway, there's no need to generalize. There are so many Gundam series some of them are not simply re-runs. I myself am curious to see G Gundam Gundam was not lame in itself, it was made lame by his greedy sponsors. It seems that Kawamori's firm decision not to make lots of Macross series was at the end self-defeating. FV

If you look at the side of the chest of the SV-51, there seems to be same kind of barrel, maybe those were the 55 mm gun (granade launchers?) the Compendium really talked about.

Tomino had nothing to do with G Gundam, but neither Imagawa choose to do G Gundam. http://www.mahq.net/rants/cons/imagawa/imagawa.htm He said he likes Kubrick but he doesn't like to copy anybody. FV

Yeah, Toasty Frog is great It's not an Eva parody nor a thumbnail theatre, but this is one of the funniest things I found on the net: http://www.cloudnet.com/~dietzt/mrtvsescaflowne.htm While these images are for the Eva fans who read this thread (about the Holliwood movie, I don't know if this is official material): http://www.pantip.com/cafe/chalermthai/top...5/A2456615.html FV

Learn the Anime Laws of Mechas: the more human a mecha does look, the more powerful it is This is true especially for the good guys. For the baddies, usually the more powerful are the uglier mechas, but nowadays things changed (try comparing Ziong and Sazabi) And for a mecha there is something worse than having a face, it's having a penis and a vagina on the top of the head like in Five Star Stories (sample image of the Knight of Gold) FV

I've heard Gundam X was cancelled because Evangelion's reruns stole the ratings. FV

I think that, in real world, defensive war tend to be a slow defeat. VFs are faster, so they can hit vitals objectives earlier. Once they get past the enemy lines and blow up all Gundams' spaceships, Gundams have to surrender or die in space. The Fold Booster improved the concept. MS are not fast enough to serve like interceptors, most of them are not even stealth and they are not that worth within atmosphere. They are intimidating, but that's all. But AFAIK they have not the same thrust, they are used for turning the MS. A VF has even the thrusters on the ankles. Thrusters that are seen anywhere in animation? I don't have seen much Gundam (although I read the specs of most of them). Yeah, and if you attach some thrusters to a spaceship it would easily dodge missiles, too. Being bigger not only means you are more slow, but also you have a bigger silhouette, so you are an easier target. You have to be twice manouvrable enough to dodge missiles. In fact, VF-1s usually don't try to out-manouver missiles, they shoot them down with lasers and gunpods, because once you dodge a missile the overtechnology missile turns and still follows you. I said awesome meaning that you need a highly cost uneffective weapon (usually invented just for show, and then actually used in combat) to take down a mass produced member of a huge flight force. And I have only seen the first episode of 0083, but from what I know of the Orchis is amazing how you can attach to a robot something that is nearly spaceship sized and you get something which is 500 times more fast and powerful than a spaceship, but only half fast and powerful than a robot of the same size (anime laws of mechas). FV

But in fighter mode a VF would be a smaller target (3.84 m against 18 m minus inclination), and a fast one. It is assumed the VF wouldn't fail the alpha strike, which is a wide spread attack. Anyway, there are Macross Zero's patented tecniques. The VF would get past the MS, it would change to gerwalk moving backward and above the MS, and the MS would turn and not find anything, while the VF would change to battroid and shot the MS's exposed back In space a ghost would be terrific. In atmosphere it is limited to go forward, but in space it could turn while still going in the opposite direction. And the usual yadda yadda, the ghost is lighter, half as long as a VF (1/8 volume) and would turn faster than the MS. I think the lasers are semifixed like the YF-21's ones. Well, I think Ghost lasers have longer range than RX-78 Gundam's beam rifles. After all Gundam was a close combat MS. The Guntank (long range) didn't have any beam rifles, while the Guncannon (mid range) still has. But you are talking about an umanned vehicle which can get past human Gs limitations (for making it more clear, the YF-21 could physically withstand +32.5 G, while the GP01fb has a maximum thruster acceleration of 3.16 G). And it is an AI, it has incredible aim and reflexes, can see from all its cameras like with the BDS/BDI and it uses five light speed weapons which can fire each at a different target in the same moment. It's like the powered up version of a funnel. I remember once I saw a friend of mine playing Quake 3, and a bot toasted him with a rocket in the exact moment he entered a room, firing from the opposite side. It felt like cheating. What stats, exactly? By the way, a Q-Rau has two 2.1 GW class generator, more than three times a VF-1. If you can't match a VF-1, you won't match a Q-Rau (which has the special inertia vector control system, too). Anyway, these are some official stats: RX-78GP01-Fb Gundam Full Vernian "Zephyranthes" Weight: empty 43.2 metric tons; max gross 74.0 metric tons Propulsion: rocket thrusters: 4 x 45000 kg, 4 x 13500 kg (note: I didn't find listed any other thrusters, while Z Gundam has actually more) VF-1 equipped with FAST packs Empty mass: 19200 kg; standard takeoff mass: 45000 kg; maximum takeoff mass: 72000 kg (without considering FAST packs) Vernier thruster types: Shinnakasu Heavy Industry NBS-1 x 4, P&W LHP04 x 18, 1 counter reverse vernier thruster nozzle on the side of each leg nacelle air intake. Engines are rated at 11500 kg each, 23000 kg x2 in overboost. Additional engines/thrusters/systems: 120000 kg class P&W EF-2001 booster thruster x 2, CTB-04 conformal propellant tank x 2, vernier thruster x many. The most agile is the Strike VF-1. And for what I know, I think the regult was thought as the RX-78 of Macross (same weight (who said the regult was lightly armored?), similar height, they hop and use beams). You should pay more attention to the original Macross series. There are a lot of references to Gundam. In one of the early episode Roy comments about how automatic pointers are no longer useful (maybe too much active stealth or plasma exhausts in the same space). In another episode, the one with the GBP-1S, Zentradis jammed radio frequencies, and Misa used laser communications. Macross world was yet ready to counter Gundam world. And by the way, Valkyries were made in Apollo Base, on the lunar surface

This kind of thread about what a new Macross series will be is recurrent, I see. But I also see there are some people who don't understand what Macross (in the mind of the hory Froating Head) is and thus will be. If you forget Gundam, you will understand better Macross. Macross is cheating mecha fans, giving them the most gorgeous mechas (without relying too much on the "it's powerful, then it's good" cliché) and the most choreographic action scenes, but with little actual action, and little of what a typical mecha fan want. In a Macross series there will be a low number of deaths among main characters. The moral is that if you want to survive, you will survive. "Condemnation of the war" is a self-indulging hypocrisy for actually wanting to see a big slaughter. Humans can't learn anything from nichilism, while Kawamori's protagonists learn something during the series, and learning is not a sin which must be atoned. In this pessimistic era, characters will learn to go on in the world they created. The enemies won't have old cannon fodder mechas. They will have right from the start kick ass mechas, which only Valkyries can stop, despite being somewhat inferior. There is a modern trend where more the protagonist whines, more powerful will be the mecha he will get. The protagonist of a Macross series will get a good but not invincible mecha, so he won't have the luxury to whine. The series won't have a great militarist tone, it won't show cadets but free spirits. There will be civilians with an important role which is not to die in combat. The series won't sound like it has been written by a Zentradi who hasn't been "re-protocultured". But if the producers will think that Kawamori in these years has been solding too low and he needs a mecha fan crowd pleaser with the super armor in each episode, I will enjoy it I think the real deal for Kawamori is a reason why he shouldn't give post Macross 7 era Valkyries the former experimental big energy weapons. They are neither current real word technology or inventive sci-fi. I think Macross Zero will show a new kind of weapon or defense. FV

VF-0S with underwater armor? Just in case those Zentradi could swim... (in Air Chronicles, the former Escaflowne, there was a "naval armor"...) FV

Really thank you, Aegis! FV

Yes, I think the term came from real world Fuel And Sensor Tactical packs used with F-15s and other jets. As a side note, I didn't notice them at first, because VF-0's legs are too slim without them. FV

Those are mental powers, not fighting skills Anyway, according to Entertainment Bible #39, Amuro Ray destroyed 142 MS and 9 ships in the OYW. By comparison, Char isn't even listed among Zeon's best aces. (info taken from the url below) http://side7.gundam.com/rgz/info/ace.html FV

But if you lose the war in the air, you'll lose the war, and you'll lose it quickly, that's why VFs rule, you can only do limited things with tanks. Actually, more amor = more mass, and you'll need more powerful thrusters to move. You won't ever be as agile as a Valkyrie. MS are bigger, too. Valkyries have also a more rational construction, they had their main thrusters in the legs, so they can stop instantly in the space by pulling their legs forward. If a VF can be downed by a Macross Cannon, those weapons will work. And a VF alone is really awesome if you need those weapons to destroy it. AU Gundams are not real Gundams, they are only robot which use the same name. And if you keep increasing Gundam Power every show, is only a matter of trial and error before you actually create a robot more powerful than a VF. Compendium doesn't say anything about it. I myself didn't have seen one in Macross 7. FV

Yes, it actually is. SV-51 is stealthier, faster and use superior calibers for the gunpod. It was even thoght for actual combat from the start, so it has a less delicate handling than the 0. VF-0 wins for endurance and faster transformation. With FAST Packs it packs a lot more missiles than the SV-51, but I think SV-51 can sport more weapons than those missile pods. FV

IIRC the VF-17 doesn't have PPB. A beam sword is made with plasma. Actually, Valkyrie use plasma too, their engine exhausts are plasma. But if you notice, YF-21's vector nozzles don't melt when they are used to bent the plasma flow. So, either Valkyries are extremely resistent to heat, or they use a magnetic field to canalize plasma. The latter is the most likely. I don't know physics, but it seems that a simple low powered magnetic field can easily block whatever amount of plasma, while you need a more powerful magnetic field to block charged particle beams. In the world of Macross nobody ever fires plasma. It's either lasers or charged particle beams. The reasons are unknown, but I think that the energy converting armor is a kind of magnetic field (not a typical spherical shaped barrier, obviously), so plasma is a useless energy based weapon type. Otherwise Valkyries could have used their exhaust to perform jeet kune do style martial moves, or their engines could be modified to fire plasma volleys from their soles in Battroid, but nothing like that ever happened. So, I don't think Valkyries could be sabered at all. As a side note, there was some scene in SDF Macross where Battroids walk over SDF-1, and there is a small burst under their feet at every step. At first it seemed strange because the burst should have moved away the VF from the Macross, but the VF remain glued to the soil. I think that the burst was used to expand magnetic field. Otherwise it is just another animation error FV

Kawamori said VF-1 and RX-78. No more matches were thougt. Since Macross 7 is the second TV series of Macross, maybe Macross Plus / Macross 7 era was intended to be superior to Z Gundam era (but I've actually seen only RX-78). And I know I caused this VS war (some weeks ago there was another one who tried, but only I succeeded), but I think the "gimme your best shot" talk is ridiculous. Anyway, I think that a porn version of the Minmay attack would rock, I mean, Gundam pilots are all teens As for the Blitz Gundam, it may be safe as long as the pilot doesn't feel the urge to sing or simply hum I still think Varauta equipments could be kinda effective... spiritia radar could be used as an effective way to counter visual cloak, and the spiritia absorption beam could act like a stungun... FV

I thought it was based on this event in the chronology: 2030 November Armed revolt by the giant Zentradi living on Earth. The Second Defensive Battle of Macross City. Hereafter, giant Zentradi are prohibited from living on Earth. It seems important enough to be told in animation, and btw the movie has "Earth" in the title. FV

Yes, each GBP armor has also additional thrusters on the back, if you notice. FV

That is why VF-1 had two 650 MW thermonuclear engines. Power output for ground combat was supposed to be power output for ground combat (anyway, even Regults' engines power is 1,3 GW). Dunno what VF-0 can do, though. When they got caught by Zentradi you see Max lift and throw Zentradi soldiers with ease, but it seemed that for RX-78 it was more difficult lifting mobil suits, like Amuro was straining the engine. I don't know how much a Zentradi weighs, but since the Valkyrie is supposed to be super light, and the VF-1's weight is scaled down from RX-78's weight, I think it bears the comparison. Macross Zero patented technique: approach the enemy, steal his own weapon and use against him Kawamori said the VF-1 could beat the RX-78, and that's it

According to Compendium, the VF-1 in Battroid Mode has a power output for ground combat of 17680 PS. PS stands for "pferde staerke", German measure unit for horse-powers. To obtain the same measure in Watt you have to multiply by 735.50. You get 13003640 W, that is 13000 kW. By comparison Gundam RX-78-2 had an output rated at 1380 kW. So, a VF-1 actually is TEN times stronger than RX-78

And if you notice, those "changes" have no more detatchable legs

Older Valkyries cannot leave atmoshpere without them